I'd have to agree, it's a pretty competitive market right now and I'd say if anything, out of the major brands, DV8 and Motiv are making the worst stuff right now.  But, everyone is making retro stuff, and who are the two youngest companies?  I'd argue they've both got some good stuff in their past, but it's just too soon to go back to the well because stuff like the Brutal Nightmare and Sigma Tour are still too fresh on people's minds. 

Black Widow and gas mask core are names.  The One series is memorable, if not all the balls were that great, plus the Gamebreaker series.  IQ and Hyroad, nuff said, Inferno and Quantum, also nuff said.  Radical is a one trick pony, but that one trick is pretty good.  Roto Grip just got on board by bringing the Nucleus core from the Cell back, and with the new Hyper Cell.  Of course, I'd also argue that all the other companies are making better new stuff than DV8 and Motiv, but that just makes it worse . .

Quote from: HackJandy on January 01, 2018, 11:25:23 AM

Pretty much concur and Storm is fairly reasonable and does put out some good stuff.  To be perfectly honest Radical balls like most Mo Pinel balls can be very hit or miss from bowler to bowler and ball to ball and I would certain say Storm was the safer bet if Radical didn't often discount balls (that made in Mexico gives them options).  The Hustle Ink is a steal but for about the same price on sale I got a much stronger Radical The Fix which for most people's style and conditions is not a better ball but it is for me and the conditions I see.   Radical tends to put out balls that benefit my style which is why I like them (not willing to die on a hill for them and have plenty of other pieces from about everyone including Storm).  For majority of bowlers its easy to see why Storm/Roto and Motiv too is way to go.  They do match up better with the majority for sure and do make some kickass balls.

(edit:  saw that Street Fight and the Rocket Ship as well on sale, this year not going to buy any balls until Black Friday now arsenal fairly full).

 
I understand your desire to be agreeable, but I'd caution against going overboard with your pronouncement that I bolded. All major manufacturers are making really good equipment now. There isn't anything that proves in any sense that "Storm/Roto and Motiv is the way to go" for the majority of bowlers. EBI in particular is making some incredible stuff now. There are simply many ways to go in putting together a good arsenal.

Lol I'd hardly call a $2 instant rebate a "deal." More than likely they overestimated their sales and have too many sitting in their warehouse at the moment, but 2 bucks off wouldn't really make me want to jump at something . .

Quote from: AlonzoHarris on January 02, 2018, 08:33:31 AM

Quote from: Luke Rosdahl on January 02, 2018, 08:18:36 AM

Really has nothing to do with the company, just more to do with customer demand.  Retailers aren't going to discount something that people are still paying full price for . . and because stuff is selling, they don't need to discount it to retailers to get it out of their warehouse.  They also don't wait so long to discontinue something.  As soon as it starts trending down or getting stale, it's gone so they don't have 1000 balls laying around that no one wants to buy anymore . . just smart business practices. 

Quote from: HackJandy on December 31, 2017, 11:48:46 PM

Quote from: Luke Rosdahl on December 31, 2017, 11:14:59 PM

Too pricey?  Their stuff costs pretty well exactly the same as what comparable balls from other companies costs . . ?  And do you mean the websites or pro shops rarely discount Storm stuff?

Quote from: HackJandy on December 31, 2017, 09:52:36 PM

Quote from: Pinbuster on December 31, 2017, 08:46:13 PM

The Marvel Pearl was a great piece and I would have bought another one but I guess our distributor has already sold out their supply.

Storm didn't get to the top by releasing a lot of duds.

Depending on your game and condition you bowl on may balls can match up well. I have had good luck with storm in the past. In the last 4 or 5 years I've had pretty good luck with rotogrip.

Honestly my personal opinion is Storm has plenty of duds (relatively speaking) but they also put more balls in the greatest ever list than just about any other maker (especially last 5 to 10 years).  Their stuff is too pricey imo (they rarely discount) to just buy and hope for the best but doesn't take much research to realize you absolutely need some of their legendary pieces in your arsenal.  MP is one of those if you match up well with pearls which I usually do not outside some specific conditions.

They have good price discipline and stick to their price points fairly well.  Some of their prices are excellent like on the Thunder line and say the Hustle Ink on the Roto side.  But some can seem a bit high for a ball being on the market for years (their stuff doesn't tend to naturally discount over time much is what I meant).  That said hey if they can get it who cares about a whiner on an internet forum.  They keep their factories busy which is basically saying scoreboard.

I see the Phaze II possibly dipping into that category if bowlingball.com discounted price is an accurate indicator.

True - I will note though that any Storm ball right now with the Instant Rebate promo is either discontinued or officially on it's way out. Take it for what it is, as it's pure speculation on my end haha.

 I just got a 3rd game on mine so I was hoping to get more games on it before it goes in case I want a second one.

No offense and I am sure there are some people that really love the Phaze 2 and maybe even the original but that will probably not be a name people are nostalgic for in 5 or 10 years.  Wish that Rocket Ship would have went on sale when I was looking for benchmarks/medium balls or I would have probably picked it up.

I had a RocketShip and sold it after 30 games. Good even reacting ball but it can get squirty at times, more so than I was willing to deal with when there's plenty of options on the market for that middle ground.

Similar to the Phaze 2, they were both kind of divas, very high maintenance.  Torrent seemed better but gets no love . .

Quote from: HackJandy on January 02, 2018, 10:07:30 AM

No offense and I am sure there are some people that really love the Phaze 2 and maybe even the original but that will probably not be a name people are nostalgic for in 5 or 10 years.  Wish that Rocket Ship would have went on sale when I was looking for benchmarks/medium balls or I would have probably picked it up.

I had a RocketShip and sold it after 30 games. Good even reacting ball but it can get squirty at times, more so than I was willing to deal with when there's plenty of options on the market for that middle ground.

Luke, I'd like to get a Son!q when it comes out, so would you please diss it early for me?  . I love my Phaze II, shot 300 with it and wouldn't trade it for anything one it got 10-15 games on the cover. Unfortunately the Intense turned out to be a $300 (with redrill) piece of unmitigated garbage for me. So, if you'll please rag on the Son!q I can get it and get started...

Luke, I'd like to get a Son!q when it comes out, so would you please diss it early for me?  . I love my Phaze II, shot 300 with it and wouldn't trade it for anything one it got 10-15 games on the cover. Unfortunately the Intense turned out to be a $300 (with redrill) piece of unmitigated garbage for me. So, if you'll please rag on the Son!q I can get it and get started...

You may fall into a similar situation that Luke and Tamer are in where they get contrasting reactions on some stuff. Opposite sides of the lane, different styles, etc. As long as you know a method to choosing what should work for you lol.

Quote from: Luke Rosdahl on January 02, 2018, 11:13:14 AM

Similar to the Phaze 2, they were both kind of divas, very high maintenance.  Torrent seemed better but gets no love . .

Quote from: AlonzoHarris on January 02, 2018, 10:32:52 AM

Quote from: HackJandy on January 02, 2018, 10:07:30 AM

No offense and I am sure there are some people that really love the Phaze 2 and maybe even the original but that will probably not be a name people are nostalgic for in 5 or 10 years.  Wish that Rocket Ship would have went on sale when I was looking for benchmarks/medium balls or I would have probably picked it up.

I had a RocketShip and sold it after 30 games. Good even reacting ball but it can get squirty at times, more so than I was willing to deal with when there's plenty of options on the market for that middle ground.

Torrent is a nice ball. Overlooked for sure. No flash, doesn't stand out. Just a solid ball.

I'm definitely going to be on the look out for something similar to the Torrent in the future. I just picked one up and I definitely regret not getting one earlier.

I'd have to agree, it's a pretty competitive market right now and I'd say if anything, out of the major brands, DV8 and Motiv are making the worst stuff right now.  But, everyone is making retro stuff, and who are the two youngest companies?  I'd argue they've both got some good stuff in their past, but it's just too soon to go back to the well because stuff like the Brutal Nightmare and Sigma Tour are still too fresh on people's minds. 

Black Widow and gas mask core are names.  The One series is memorable, if not all the balls were that great, plus the Gamebreaker series.  IQ and Hyroad, nuff said, Inferno and Quantum, also nuff said.  Radical is a one trick pony, but that one trick is pretty good.  Roto Grip just got on board by bringing the Nucleus core from the Cell back, and with the new Hyper Cell.  Of course, I'd also argue that all the other companies are making better new stuff than DV8 and Motiv, but that just makes it worse . .

I find Luke's comments intriguing. Quoting to comeback later and discuss.


Slow day at work, so I'll bite as a fan boy of Motiv.

I do not think Motiv is in the bottom 2 in regards to equipment. It is actually more comparable to Storm, and better in some regards. Where to start? I will compare balls I guess.

Strong Dull Asym
Storm has the Sure Lock and Motiv has the Jackal Ghost (Rising technically hasn't released, but is sooner and stronger than Ghost). BTM gives the Sure Lock a little more hook overall (Rising competes better with the Sure Lock) and the Ghost a little more length and backend. 2 pretty comparable balls. Motiv also has the Trident that is slightly weaker and longer than both of the other 2 balls mentioned.

Strong Shiny Asym
Storm has the Intense and Code Red. Motiv has the Trident Quest. The Quest shows to be the longest and strongest of the 3, per BTM again. I feel the Intense and Quest are similar where as the Red is more of a niche ball with the weaker cover.

Strong Dull Sym
This is where Motiv has dropped the ball, imo. But it doesn't mean that they are in left field. They offer the Forza SS, which is a very early and smooth ball. The only other option is the Chronic Paranoia. Storm offers the Phaze II and the HyRoad Nano. Per BTM, The Phaze II and Nano have the same hook potential at 56, with the SS at 55 and the Chronic at 57. Once again, 4 balls under an umbrella. I find the Chronic and Phaze II to be similar when bowled on the same conditions with a slight nod to the Phaze II for continuation. The SS is just a strong banana. The Hyroad Nano is very cover strong and I am on the fence with my review of this one.

Strong shiny Sym
Storm offers the Timeless, HyRoad and HyRoad Pearl. Motiv offers the Primal Fear, United Revolt, and Lethal Paranoia. Timeless was... let's just say it left a lot to be desired. HyRoad is daddy in this category. The Primal Fear is a good ball, but nothing to buy twice. It is more comparable to the HyRoad Pearl in my eyes after having both. The United Revolt is comparable to the discontinued Marvel Pearl. Heavy rolling pearl that does not flip off of the pattern on the backend. BTM actually rates all of the Motiv balls as stronger than the Storm ones in this category.

Weaker Dull Sym
And now the best balls for both brands (minus HyRoad). The !Q Tour and the Venom Shock. Both balls are the best on the market for what they are. Dull low RG, low diff balls that are flat great on most patterns for most bowlers.

Weaker Shiny Sym
Both companies have good and bad balls in this category. Tough as to who to give the nod to. Storm has the Match UP series and Tropical Series. Motiv has the Octane Carbon, Venom Cobra, Tag Cannon, Free Style series. The Match Up Hybrid is the best of the bunch in that line, IMO and compares to the Tag Cannon. I see a lot of similarities between the 2. The Octane Carbon and Match Up Pearl remind me of each other as they are allergic to oil. Free Style series is more aggressive than the Tropical series. And in my opinion, the Cobra is the best of the bunch in this series. Predictable pearl that can be used on a wide array of patterns except for the extremes.

So after all of that, I do not see where Motiv is any better or Worse than Storm. They both have great balls, they both have good balls, and they both have balls that leave a lot on the table. Biggest difference that I see it Storm releases more balls per year. Motiv has 6 balls on the market that are over 1 year old. Storm has 3. Motiv releases slower than most of the other companies due to their release schedule. I would put Motiv in the same sentence with Storm, albeit after, but in the same sentence. Motiv has the most complete lineup outside of Storm. EBI has 45 balls to chose from, but one you make the 4 brands act as 4 brands, holes galore in that arsenal. Brunswick has come a good ways in the last few years, but I do not think that they are ready to compete at the top right now.

Slow workday has me really bored