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Author Topic: Strongest ball in oil  (Read 5473 times)

bowler100

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Strongest ball in oil
« on: May 28, 2018, 04:46:24 PM »
I practice on a lot on slick, flat sport patterns and the lane surface at this particular center is slick. Which bowling ball made in the last couple of years will have the strongest traction on an oil spill?
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LookingForALeftyWall

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Re: Strongest ball in oil
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2018, 08:18:26 AM »
BTM rated the Radical Cash as the strongest ball they have reviewed.  However, it was recently discontinued.  You might be able to find one on the internet somewhere. 

As for current balls available, the Storm Sure Lock and the Radical More Cash would be considered the strongest in oil.
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avabob

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Re: Strongest ball in oil
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2018, 04:19:24 PM »
You can make anything hook in oil if you put enough surface on it.  The question is why would you want to.  All it accomplishes is taking away the ablity to square up while still burning off the energy to make  a strong move to the pocket . 
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Strapper_Squared

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Re: Strongest ball in oil
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2018, 05:02:50 PM »
I would say that is a fair assessment...  There needs to be friction somewhere to hook.
I think instead of "hook in oil" the phrase would be "suitable for higher oil volume patterns."

Now whether you create friction by having a strong/fast response cover or embedding ceramic chunks into the cover...  Pick your poison.
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bowler100

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Re: Strongest ball in oil
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2018, 05:44:27 PM »
Quote from: avabob on May 30, 2018, 04:19:24 PM
You can make anything hook in oil if you put enough surface on it.  The question is why would you want to.  All it accomplishes is taking away the ablity to square up while still burning off the energy to make  a strong move to the pocket .
If the pattern is slick and flat enough in the front part of the lane. It makes it EASIER to square up on the outside and play a small belly out to the gutter because the ball will pick up soon enough where it will not fall off into the channel on misses outside. I have enough axis rotation where I can get the ball to continue and hit. It is a risky strategy but I have shot uncharacteristically big scores (250s+) on certain tournaments that used heavier and flatter sport patterns.

If the pattern is very long (46+ feet) but not very heavy, then a 2000 grit on a quick response  cover (such as the Brunswick Tenacity) is far and away your best bet along with using the 10 board as your gutter.

Correct me if I am wrong but wouldn't a Sure Lock traction in oil similarly to the old particles balls (with the same grit) but have a little stronger response to friction? 
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HackJandy

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Re: Strongest ball in oil
« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2018, 09:44:17 PM »
I have a more cash and to be perfectly honest its hard to recommend that ball.  I and several others on here haven't been massively impressed with how that ball behaves even in pretty heavy oil.  Ball just flat either burns up and hits light if there is any friction at all or skids too long and barely moves in the oil.  Tried all kinds of surface and only time I found a decent match up with that ball is with a think coat of turtle wax on THS and even then nothing to special.  Recent ball that hooks the most for me in oil is my green Quantum and would recommend that over the More Cash for sure (haven't tried the Kingpins or Pitbulls and my Fix is drilled fairly mild symmetric so hard to judge it on true heavy oil).  The other ones I have had good luck with is my epoxy ball on heavy shorter oil and my Visionary Raven particle ball with surface on longer heavy oil but those are discontinued now.  Lot of people on here are also raving about that new Rotogrip Idol on heavy oil but haven't seen it myself yet.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2018, 10:28:01 PM by HackJandy »
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bcw1969

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Re: Strongest ball in oil
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2018, 10:29:19 PM »
Quote from: bowler100 on May 30, 2018, 01:15:36 AM
Quote from: MI 2 AZ on May 30, 2018, 12:29:27 AM
I need a refresher on this.  I thought no ball would hook in oil, that you had to have friction (dry) and wanted a quicker response on a longer pattern.  I guess the balls are so strong now that is no longer true?
Having thrown a NIB 1998 Ebonite Riptide recently on this year's flooded out Masters oil pattern a few weeks ago, I would have to disagree that no ball could hook in oil. That ball could barely cleared the first 30-35 feet on fresh 30 ml pattern on a Brunswick surface! On a medium house shot, the Riptide does not even clear the arrows! That ball is STILL overkill on all but the heaviest of patterns even today. Imagine people 20 years ago throwing a Riptide in league. Yikes! :o

I can 2nd that about the riptide..I picked up a used one since the season began and that has to be just about the grabbiest cover I have ever seen---this coming from a guy who has had 2 midnight scorchers for years and 2 tombstones the past year or so. With my very low rev rate particles work best for me on oiler tournament patterns.

Brad
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HackJandy

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Re: Strongest ball in oil
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2018, 10:31:51 PM »
Quote from: bcw1969 on May 30, 2018, 10:29:19 PM
Quote from: bowler100 on May 30, 2018, 01:15:36 AM
Quote from: MI 2 AZ on May 30, 2018, 12:29:27 AM
I need a refresher on this.  I thought no ball would hook in oil, that you had to have friction (dry) and wanted a quicker response on a longer pattern.  I guess the balls are so strong now that is no longer true?
Having thrown a NIB 1998 Ebonite Riptide recently on this year's flooded out Masters oil pattern a few weeks ago, I would have to disagree that no ball could hook in oil. That ball could barely cleared the first 30-35 feet on fresh 30 ml pattern on a Brunswick surface! On a medium house shot, the Riptide does not even clear the arrows! That ball is STILL overkill on all but the heaviest of patterns even today. Imagine people 20 years ago throwing a Riptide in league. Yikes! :o

I can 2nd that about the riptide..I picked up a used one since the season began and that has to be just about the grabbiest cover I have ever seen---this coming from a guy who has had 2 midnight scorchers for years and 2 tombstones the past year or so. With my very low rev rate particles work best for me on oiler tournament patterns.

Brad

Brad did you ever throw an AMB Centaur Particle or Burgundy Particle Gryphon?  Those balls looked like they would hook on nearly any amount of oil as well.

(edit:  actually saw this the other day and was like wow, bet this one is still a monster today as well - http://www.bowlwithbrunswick.com/downloads/info-sheets/Monster_Swamp.pdf)
« Last Edit: May 30, 2018, 10:45:20 PM by HackJandy »
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bowler100

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Re: Strongest ball in oil
« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2018, 12:06:33 AM »
Quote from: bcw1969 on May 30, 2018, 10:29:19 PM
Quote from: bowler100 on May 30, 2018, 01:15:36 AM
Quote from: MI 2 AZ on May 30, 2018, 12:29:27 AM
I need a refresher on this.  I thought no ball would hook in oil, that you had to have friction (dry) and wanted a quicker response on a longer pattern.  I guess the balls are so strong now that is no longer true?
Having thrown a NIB 1998 Ebonite Riptide recently on this year's flooded out Masters oil pattern a few weeks ago, I would have to disagree that no ball could hook in oil. That ball could barely cleared the first 30-35 feet on fresh 30 ml pattern on a Brunswick surface! On a medium house shot, the Riptide does not even clear the arrows! That ball is STILL overkill on all but the heaviest of patterns even today. Imagine people 20 years ago throwing a Riptide in league. Yikes! :o

I can 2nd that about the riptide..I picked up a used one since the season began and that has to be just about the grabbiest cover I have ever seen---this coming from a guy who has had 2 midnight scorchers for years and 2 tombstones the past year or so. With my very low rev rate particles work best for me on oiler tournament patterns.

Brad
Do you still have both the Scorcher and the Tomestone, Brad? I love testing particle balls out of mere curiosity. I was a little boy during the particle era of the early 2000's.
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bcw1969

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Re: Strongest ball in oil
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2018, 09:45:01 PM »
Yes I still  have the tombstone(s) and the scorchers and I will never part with the scorchers or the tombstones, those are keepers for heavy oil. Also to the question of the amb particle, I do have one. The amb can cover more boards than the scorcher, but the scorcher will tend to want to make it's move much sooner than the amb because of the non-reactive cover of the scorcher---which for me is a great assest on certain patterns that have a severe out of bounds. Never tried a burgundy gryphon so can't comment there.

Brad
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Dave81644

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Re: Strongest ball in oil
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2018, 09:58:28 PM »
I threw the Ripd and Ripd solid at a demo days a few months ago. the Ripd is a hyrbrid that reads in the oil, designed to read in the midlane,  it's plenty strong. Then I go to the solid, good gawd, I have no where to even use that monster.
Until Minors in Syracuse. definitely could have used it there.
Had a 2000 grit middle asymmetric layout on am Alias and it wasn't enough ball IMO
« Last Edit: June 01, 2018, 05:25:59 AM by Dave81644 »
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billdozer

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Re: Strongest ball in oil
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2018, 11:17:52 PM »
It's supposed to be the new katana dragon, outdoijg the guru master and the cashes on the btm hook scale.
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Impending Doom

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Re: Strongest ball in oil
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2018, 11:44:12 PM »
My Riptide was enough of a hot mess for me to stay away from strong particle covers for YEARS. Thing hooked in my bag dull and did nothing when shiny.
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HackJandy

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Re: Strongest ball in oil
« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2018, 12:11:46 AM »
Quote from: Impending Doom on May 31, 2018, 11:44:12 PM
My Riptide was enough of a hot mess for me to stay away from strong particle covers for YEARS. Thing hooked in my bag dull and did nothing when shiny.

Particle balls don't match up with me in general at all (have a real problem with roll out).  Worst ball I have ever owned is a Storm Shift.  Even the light load in my Visionary Raven makes it a heavy oil ball only and even then with less surface.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2018, 12:19:12 AM by HackJandy »
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bowler100

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Re: Strongest ball in oil
« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2018, 01:37:33 AM »
Quote from: bcw1969 on May 31, 2018, 09:45:01 PM
Yes I still  have the tombstone(s) and the scorchers and I will never part with the scorchers or the tombstones, those are keepers for heavy oil. Also to the question of the amb particle, I do have one. The amb can cover more boards than the scorcher, but the scorcher will tend to want to make it's move much sooner than the amb because of the non-reactive cover of the scorcher---which for me is a great assest on certain patterns that have a severe out of bounds. Never tried a burgundy gryphon so can't comment there.

Brad
So, Brad, how does your Riptide compare to the Tombstone and the Scorcher as far as oil-handling ability or are they pretty much the same? Does the urethane base on the Scorcher distinguish it from the Riptide and Tomestone at all as far as the length of the hook phase? Chances are I may never get a hold of the Tombstone or Scorcher so I thought I might ask. 
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bcw1969

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Re: Strongest ball in oil
« Reply #30 on: June 01, 2018, 04:19:53 PM »
On the conditions I use them on, I find a Tombstone with a similar drilling to a Scorcher to react almost the same...the riptide I haven't had opportunity to use it a lot since I got it..the few events I bought it to, I severely underestimated how grabby the particles are in that ball and had the surface at too low of grit. The last event I did was a 40 ft pattern about 29 ml of oil and even at 1500 grit was quite grabby. But out of the three I prefer the Scorcher(I do have my high game ever with that ball).

Brad
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