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Author Topic: Struggling on league House shot since machine changed  (Read 2725 times)

Stylez78

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Struggling on league House shot since machine changed
« on: January 18, 2025, 07:05:50 PM »
So early this season our Bowlero house got a new oil machine and changed the oil they use.  Lot of avg have gone down and lot of good bowlers keep complaining the shot is very wet dry.  I don't get these things but I do know I have been struggling a lot to carry the 10 pin (in 47 games I have left 78 10 pins.  Almost all my 10 pins are ring 10's not the one where the 6 just falls limp into the gutter).  I have struggled to find a ball I am confident and comfortable throwing game 1 and then the switch if needed in game 2 or 3.  My arsenal is:

Storm Summit 60 x 4.5 x 35
Magic Gem 45 x 4 x 35
Sublime 50 x 4 x 25
Theorem 50 x 5 x 30
Xponent 60 x 4.5 x 35
DNA Coil 60 x 4.5 x 30

Lot of balls but I kept trying to find something but nothing really has jumped out.  Most this league season I have used the Xponent to start and transitioned into either the DNA Coil or the Sublime. 

The Xponent starts to jump too early off the dry and if I miss in it glides and never grabs the lane.  The miss room feels very small margin. If I move left with it it 10 pin city, so I try the DNA Coil but that ball is too inconsistent with it's motion.  Sometimes it will spin and glide past the breakpoint or other times won't pickup off the dry fast enough.  Sublime works best if I have to get left.   The Magic Gem just never did well for me.  Theorem also most times goes too long before it picks up and comes behind the head pin most times.  The Summit I did have success with last season but with the new oil and machine it also struggles to pickup in the track area or it can over react off the dry.

I hate chasing balls, but I watch guys in my league just roll up 10 play a nic smooth simple angle and find the pocket and carry the world.  I can't, I try but my balls it a spec of dry and go left.  I move my feet left and then the trouble begins!   MY speed is 17mph off hand, rev is like 330 rotation about 45-50 and axis tilt is 8-12.  I don't get why I am struggling so much but do I need to try a weaker layout?  Something more controlable that won't jump off the dry?  I have tried surface changes with all these balls I just haven't found the sweet spot yet.

I hate to buy another ball but I am searching for something controlable, that isn't a turd but doesn't jump so bad off the dry and I can play a easy smooth arc type angle with.   Appreciate any advice! 
« Last Edit: January 18, 2025, 07:07:25 PM by Stylez78 »

 

SVstar34

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Re: Struggling on league House shot since machine changed
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2025, 08:04:04 PM »
Welcome to wet/dry house shot cliff hell.

I've got similar stats to you. Not enough hand to go around the pattern and too much hand to play out.

It generally comes down to moving in more and soften up to get the ball to go through the pins better. Bigger and quicker response with some surface (2000 or 3000) would be the recommendation

Stylez78

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Re: Struggling on league House shot since machine changed
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2025, 08:29:49 PM »
Welcome to wet/dry house shot cliff hell.

I've got similar stats to you. Not enough hand to go around the pattern and too much hand to play out.

It generally comes down to moving in more and soften up to get the ball to go through the pins better. Bigger and quicker response with some surface (2000 or 3000) would be the recommendation

I appreciate that reply!!  Do you think maybe putting a fresh 2000 on the Magic Gem and playing around 15 at the breakpoint would be worth the try?  I could also try the summit again on the same inside line as well?

I don't know if something like the Effect Tour or Envy Tour or Mesmerize? 

SVstar34

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Re: Struggling on league House shot since machine changed
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2025, 09:43:05 PM »
Welcome to wet/dry house shot cliff hell.

I've got similar stats to you. Not enough hand to go around the pattern and too much hand to play out.

It generally comes down to moving in more and soften up to get the ball to go through the pins better. Bigger and quicker response with some surface (2000 or 3000) would be the recommendation

I appreciate that reply!!  Do you think maybe putting a fresh 2000 on the Magic Gem and playing around 15 at the breakpoint would be worth the try?  I could also try the summit again on the same inside line as well?

I don't know if something like the Effect Tour or Envy Tour or Mesmerize? 

It could definitely be worth the try. You've got some good options already to try.

It's one of those situations where you essentially need to make the ball hook and simultaneously be nice to it at the bottom

tloy

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Re: Struggling on league House shot since machine changed
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2025, 07:57:22 PM »
I am running into something similar. I would try the Summit at a fresh 3000 by hand or the Magic Gem at 2000 by hand. This will get the ball through the pocket better. You should be able to move a little deeper and open your angles to get the ball to kick out those pesky 10 pins.

TWOHAND834

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Re: Struggling on league House shot since machine changed
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2025, 08:41:52 AM »
Since you have a variety of options' you need a variety of surfaces.  I would take the Summit down to 1000.  The more surface you have the more you will blend in the wet/dry.  When Brad Miller won the Bradley a week ago (55 foot pattern); he said he used an Origin at 220 grit.  So dont be afraid to go rougher with the surface.  I would then put the X-Ponent and Sublime down to 2000, then everything else leave at box finish.  Since most of your balls are high end; you need to create separation between them.  If it were me. I would take the Summit at 1000 grit and during the 10 minutes of practice, play straight up around 10-12 boards and see if you can help blend in the wet/dry.  Another thing is asyms on wet/dry tend to be a bad combination because they tend to roll forward (especially with high pin placements like you have).  So unless your axis rotation is at least 60 degrees, it could explain a lot of those 10 pins.  The rule of thumb is you want a symmetric ball with surface because the hook window is longer which helps in blending in the wet/dry.

Ultimately you have 2 options.  You take a ball with a lot of surface and play inside the dry and use the dry as your miss room.  Or, you can move your feet left, open your angles and play the bump.  As crazy as it sounds, my rev rate is over 500 and I encounter this at my center.  What works for me was a symmetric ball at fresh 2000 standing on 30 with my left foot, targeting 15 at the arrows with my breakpoint outside the 5 board.  The 1-3 boards are so dry it is almost impossible to throw it in the gutter.  So instead of playing tight and risking leaving 2-10s all night, I play the dry to ensure some ball motion.  At least I know I can get to the pocket that way.

Do you know if they are going to play around and tweak the shot?  If not, it doesnt hurt to ask.  Dont come off as complaining but just simply ask if they intend to tweak the pattern or if they plan on leaving it that way.  If they say they are not going to change it, then set aside a time when you can go practice 3 or 4 games.  CTDbowling.com sells sanding pads that are good by hand and dont require a spinner.  I personally use them and they are fantastic.  So as you are practicing, you can keep freshening up the surface if you want to without making mutiple trips to the pro shop.  But practicing, you can go at your own pace and give yourself time to think and just try different things.  When bowling league, you can only do so much.  Rule of thumb, is you want to sand down a symmetric, find out where the dry starts, and play just inside it.  If you hit the dry early, it should not over react but if you miss in it still has a chance to hold.   
Steven Vance
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Former Classic Products Assistant Manager

Jesse James

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Re: Struggling on league House shot since machine changed
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2025, 01:45:54 PM »
Truly I feel your pain. Bowlero did this to us in my main house as well. Changed the shot, different oil, a bit heavier and all averages just plummeted. I was getting ring tens all day long and then whenever I made a slight adjustment with my feet, now I get soldier 7s!!

The advice Twohands gave you is probably best for your situation.

But I went a different route. I balled down to much weaker pieces but used stronger layouts. And with my bigger pieces, I went with weaker layouts and then just tweak the surface as necessary. After all, it's all about carry and getting that damn ten pin to fall.

I also liked your idea about using an Envy Tour. Smooth balls like that seem to always give you a longer transition on the back end which aids in getting carry.

I'm 71, with slow speed around 12mph but a fair amount of hand. Definitely rev dominant.
Some days you're the bug....some days you're the windshield...that's bowling!

Stylez78

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Re: Struggling on league House shot since machine changed
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2025, 03:08:01 PM »
@Twohand834 I appreciate that detailed reply!  A lot of my stuff I purchased with Sport Shot tournaments in mind so that why some of my stuff was more upper end and I haven't even really used most of it on the house shot much at all.  I'm going to try the Summit with 1000 grit tonight and see how it goes with blending things out. The Xponent was my go to mostly because it was easier to play that tighter track area since it weaker cover than most what I have but it tends to over react in the back if it hits the dry prob because it storing more energy and then snapping instead of being the right ball for the condition

bowl868

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Re: Struggling on league House shot since machine changed
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2025, 11:31:56 AM »
I finally got to reading this thread and could have written the same post about my "house shot" league.  I've been frustrated for 4 years at this house where lesser hand and spinners up 2nd arrow have the nut week in and week out.  How did the Summit at 1000 work out?  Thinking of trying the same thing with a Phase 2, Magic Gem, or Xponent.

Strike Ball

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Re: Struggling on league House shot since machine changed
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2025, 09:16:19 PM »
My problem is we bowl on wooden lanes that can’t be resurfaced. The owner claimed this past summer we may have synthetic lanes put. Still nothing but bowling on nails. Bowlers do score if they could throw the ball about 18 mph or loft the ball over the heads. Also finding the shot inconsistent.