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Author Topic: Stunned (Prize fund discussions)  (Read 4955 times)

Gizmo823

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Stunned (Prize fund discussions)
« on: August 18, 2014, 07:14:06 AM »
Recently on the city board we've really been hitting the issue of retaining bowlers and gaining new ones pretty hard.  One suggestion that I brought up after talking about it here was the idea of removing prize funds.  By and large, they're spread so thin that the people on top don't even get what they put into the prize fund back, let alone make anything.  People complain about bowling being so expensive, so naturally the idea of being able to save the bowlers a lot of money every week got jumped on.  We started talking to people about it and suggesting it in various league meetings that have been going on the last week or two. 

Here's the issue, the very suggestion of removing the prize fund has already caused 6 teams to quit leagues at one of the centers here in town, just the suggestion.  For some reason people are getting the idea that the board is mandating that leagues remove their prize funds, and before they even stop and realize we can't do that, AND that it would save the majority of them money anyway, they're quitting.  The board president has asked that we all stop even suggesting it or discussing it.  I had started posting questions and breaking it down by the numbers on Facebook to get some feedback from people there, and even my boss at the shop said he was getting messages and comments from people who weren't happy that I was talking about it. 

Number one I'm pissed that I can't have my own opinion, or that people can't separate this from what I do at the shop.  Yeah it's the world we live in, but I'm a bowler upset with the system, this has less than nothing to do with drilling bowling balls.  I have to bowl leagues to be out there and be visible, but I can't debate, question, or offer suggestions about anything so I'm just stuck with what I get.  I said something about our scratch league prize fund at the end of the season, because I took issue with the reality that I could have literally shown up and thrown the ball in the gutter every single shot all year and walked out with almost $300, while being one of the top few bowlers in the league only got me back $525.  Most leagues you don't bowl to make money, but when you're supposed to be in a competitive scratch league that's several dollars a week more expensive than most leagues specifically to get extra money into the prize fund and has a decent amount of added money, I'm not sure why it's so flat and spread out. 

This has me a little extra frustrated.  Not only do I go above and beyond in the shop and on the board (in addition to my full time 40 hour a week day job), now I can't so much as voice my opinions as a bowler.  What's the point?  I just feel like I am and have been wasting all kinds of time that I could have been putting into getting myself places and having some personal success.  Naturally I'm going to continue doing what I've been doing, but this is all pretty deflating. 
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

 

Urethane Game

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Re: Stunned (Prize fund discussions)
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2014, 07:51:49 AM »
Some bowlers aren't very good at math.  If there isn't money added to a prize fund, you're really just ensuring that you'll bowl the whole season.

I like your idea.  Players would be better off investing the money not used in a prize fund in lottery tickets or the bank.

Dogtown

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Re: Stunned (Prize fund discussions)
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2014, 08:06:15 AM »
If teams quit at the "suggestion" of something new, then they didn't want to bowl in the first place. 

itsallaboutme

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Re: Stunned (Prize fund discussions)
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2014, 08:24:48 AM »
Obviously the manner in which the message was given in the league meetings led to some confusion.  I'm not a fan of the idea, but that is besides the point.  And given that it was multiple teams I can see why you were told to stop.

As for the extra curricular activities and opinions as a bowler effecting the shop, you need to realize when you run a pro shop everything you do in bowling has an effect on that shop.

When you work for a ball company multiply it by 100.

Gizmo823

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Re: Stunned (Prize fund discussions)
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2014, 08:38:57 AM »
Yeah I realize that . . just reiterating frustration with people who don't logic . .

Obviously the manner in which the message was given in the league meetings led to some confusion.  I'm not a fan of the idea, but that is besides the point.  And given that it was multiple teams I can see why you were told to stop.

As for the extra curricular activities and opinions as a bowler effecting the shop, you need to realize when you run a pro shop everything you do in bowling has an effect on that shop.

When you work for a ball company multiply it by 100.
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

Aloarjr810

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Re: Stunned (Prize fund discussions)
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2014, 08:57:57 AM »
The board having discussion's on the subject and then deciding to investigate it further by talking to select people and leagues was a okay procedure.

Once the iboard seen people were having issues and misunderstandings with the suggestion. (ie: For some reason people are getting the idea that the board is mandating that leagues remove their prize funds)

The board should have gone back for further discussion and worked out the issues and found a better way to present it.

You taking it to a public forum (like Facebook) instead was premature, While everyone is entitled to their opinion.

You being on the board you are speaking from a position of authority. So you have to be more careful about where and how those opinions are expressed.

Because while you maybe voicing just your opinion, many people may assume your speaking for the board.

As you have seen a lot of people don't know or understand, just where the boards authority begins or ends, what they can and cannot mandate.


« Last Edit: August 18, 2014, 08:59:54 AM by Aloarjr810 »
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Gizmo823

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Re: Stunned (Prize fund discussions)
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2014, 09:16:14 AM »
Well the going back to drawing board is where we're at now.  I don't know of any better way to present it.  Here's the idea, here's the numbers, we're saving you money, but you don't have to do it if you don't want, it's just a suggestion.  I don't know of any better way to do that. 

The board having discussion's on the subject and then deciding to investigate it further by talking to select people and leagues was a okay procedure.

Once the iboard seen people were having issues and misunderstandings with the suggestion. (ie: For some reason people are getting the idea that the board is mandating that leagues remove their prize funds)

The board should have gone back for further discussion and worked out the issues and found a better way to present it.

You taking it to a public forum (like Facebook) instead was premature, While everyone is entitled to their opinion.

You being on the board you are speaking from a position of authority. So you have to be more careful about where and how those opinions are expressed.

Because while you maybe voicing just your opinion, many people may assume your speaking for the board.

As you have seen a lot of people don't know or understand, just where the boards authority begins or ends, what they can and cannot mandate.
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

Aloarjr810

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Re: Stunned (Prize fund discussions)
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2014, 09:24:14 AM »
As for eliminating the prizefund I doubt that would ever fly.

Another option that might go over better.

Suggest that leagues Make the prize fund optional, Then teams that want to save money can opt out.

As for the prizelists being flat and spread out.

On the big men's league here a similar complaint was made by the top bowlers that they didn't get enough money.

The solution they came up with worked out very well.

Besides the the normal prize fund, A second optional prize fund was started, With the prizelist for it heavily top weighted. That teams could buy into.

We made out very well and just about every year more teams have got into it.


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itsallaboutme

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Re: Stunned (Prize fund discussions)
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2014, 09:35:45 AM »
Can't you just accept that people don't like your idea and move on instead of trying to figure out another way to present it?

Teams have quit and others are complaining that you won't drop it.  Being in the position you are in the pro shop and the board puts you in a position to be heard.  They don't like your idea, have showed push back and you won't let it go.  Move on to the next constructive idea and quit being so hard headed that any idea you come up with is the best solution.

milorafferty

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Re: Stunned (Prize fund discussions)
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2014, 09:36:31 AM »
As for eliminating the prizefund I doubt that would ever fly.

Another option that might go over better.

Suggest that leagues Make the prize fund optional, Then teams that want to save money can opt out.

As for the prizelists being flat and spread out.

On the big men's league here a similar complaint was made by the top bowlers that they didn't get enough money.

The solution they came up with worked out very well.

Besides the the normal prize fund, A second optional prize fund was started, With the prizelist for it heavily top weighted. That teams could buy into.

We made out very well and just about every year more teams have got into it.




Best suggestion I have heard yet on this subject. Well done sir!
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Gizmo823

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Re: Stunned (Prize fund discussions)
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2014, 09:45:50 AM »
There's nobody complaining about not dropping it . . people don't like the idea and so we HAVE dropped it.  I'm just intellectually offended that people whine and cry about bowling being so expensive, you find a way to save them a significant amount of money, and they want nothing to do with it.  I'm not trying to find another way to present it, I'm leaving it alone.  We're going back to the drawing board for different ideas, not a different way to present the same one.  This is just a general topic venting frustration at spending so much time and energy, coming up with a solid solution, and people not even getting the point.  If they don't like it, fine, if they want to keep the prize funds, fine, that's not the issue here.  The issue here is people not paying attention or thinking.  I'm not being hard headed, I'm wondering how on earth we're going to come up with anything that's going to work if this just caused problems. 

Can't you just accept that people don't like your idea and move on instead of trying to figure out another way to present it?

Teams have quit and others are complaining that you won't drop it.  Being in the position you are in the pro shop and the board puts you in a position to be heard.  They don't like your idea, have showed push back and you won't let it go.  Move on to the next constructive idea and quit being so hard headed that any idea you come up with is the best solution.
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

t1buck

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Re: Stunned (Prize fund discussions)
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2014, 09:47:34 AM »
As a association manager that idea should have never came from the board (My Personal Opinion).  We are not there to tell a league how to be ran (Unless we are members of that league we have no input). We do not have any say on any thing going on in a league unless a league rule is in violation of USBC rule.  It would have came across to me that the board is wanting the league to do away with prize fund (I do not see that happening in almost all leagues).   

Gizmo823

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Re: Stunned (Prize fund discussions)
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2014, 09:52:12 AM »
The optional prize fund is another idea that should have been presented, I wasn't able to be involved in any of the league meetings, so the idea(s) could have very well been presented poorly. 

I like the secondary prize fund.  Still not happy that the majority of the money gets spread so thin, but I might suggest that . .

3 dollar brackets aren't a bad way to go either.  We've also had an idea for nightly payouts.  You want in the prize fund for that week, you pay the prize fee, and if you make money, you get paid back that week.  If you don't have or don't want to spend the extra cash, you can stay out of the prize pool that week. 

As for eliminating the prizefund I doubt that would ever fly.

Another option that might go over better.

Suggest that leagues Make the prize fund optional, Then teams that want to save money can opt out.

As for the prizelists being flat and spread out.

On the big men's league here a similar complaint was made by the top bowlers that they didn't get enough money.

The solution they came up with worked out very well.

Besides the the normal prize fund, A second optional prize fund was started, With the prizelist for it heavily top weighted. That teams could buy into.

We made out very well and just about every year more teams have got into it.
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

Gizmo823

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Re: Stunned (Prize fund discussions)
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2014, 09:55:36 AM »
It was an idea from the board, however the idea wasn't presented by the board.  It was presented by board members at their various league meetings, but shouldn't have been presented as a board idea.  I can see what you're saying if somebody gets up and says, "well the board thinks you should get rid of the prize funds."  It's just an idea to save people money and maybe allow them to bowl an extra league or something.  Maybe I'm just assuming people have more common sense than they really do. 

As a association manager that idea should have never came from the board (My Personal Opinion).  We are not there to tell a league how to be ran (Unless we are members of that league we have no input). We do not have any say on any thing going on in a league unless a league rule is in violation of USBC rule.  It would have came across to me that the board is wanting the league to do away with prize fund (I do not see that happening in almost all leagues).
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

SVstar34

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Re: Stunned (Prize fund discussions)
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2014, 10:07:44 AM »
Never assume people have common sense. As much as it may not make sense to me or you or other people, there are far too many people lacking common sense.

As a bowler, I wouldn't be opposed to no prize fund in a mixed league if the cost was lowered.

 For our men's league, I want the money in that one. Competition is too good to not put up a prize fund and since we have a couple sponsors for the end of year roll off the prize money is distributed better with that added.

What about getting a couple sponsors to throw in some extra money for the top 3-4 teams
« Last Edit: August 18, 2014, 10:22:21 AM by SVstar34 »