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Author Topic: Changing balls after 3/4 season is over, Could some file a complaint against you  (Read 13273 times)

trash heap

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So if you have been throwing a __________ ball for 3/4 of season in a money handicap league and you change to a ____________ ball , and your scores conisiderably increase for remaining weeks of league.  Are you breaking any USBC rules? Could someone file a complaint and prove that you are cheating?

(By changing balls, this means you have had the ball before the season starts)

1. Urethane to Reactive
2. Plastic to Reactive
3. Weak Reactive to a Strong Reactive
4. Reactive to Urethane

I am going to guess most bowlers would cry foul if someone did 1 and 2? But are they really that different from each other?
« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 11:46:08 AM by trash heap »
Talkin' Trash!

 

spmcgivern

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So Eagle, you feel a bowler's average is independent of their ability? 

If you were a sponsor for Walter Ray and he decided to use a plastic ball on the Scorpion pattern you would be fine with that.  After all, his "ability" is undisputed.  Of course not, you want him to score his best and would want him to use a ball of his that will allow him to have a score that matched his ability.

To me it boils down to whether or not a bowler does "anything" on purpose to average lower than their ability.  Whether that is using plastic on purpose, or missing spares on purpose or anything within their power to manipulate their scores for their benefit.

Unfortunately, I agree with most on here in that it is not against the rules per se to use a plastic ball.  But the practice as stated in the OP is unethical.

vadertyme03

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Who is to say that said bowler didn't just get a brand new urethane ball prior to the fall league starting. He/she practices with it couple of times prior to league, loves the reaction, and decides it would be great to use for league. So they use it for league. Due to stubbornness and/or new ball syndrome they never change away from it since they were sure it would work for league. Finally, their teammates get on them about their scores. Accepts they were wrong switches to reactive and bowls better. Is that worthy of a complaint from the league or USBC? How can you even differentiate that from blatant use of a mismatched ball? IMO, you can't.

spmcgivern

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That is just it.  You can't tell.  I am not saying it is a USBC matter, just an ethical matter for those who do it on purpose to manage their average.

EagleHunter

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So Eagle, you feel a bowler's average is independent of their ability? 
Without question a bowler's ability is completely independent of their average.  I'm shocked that anyone on this board would think otherwise.

How else would you explain the VAST majority of bowlers that can average 220+ at their home center, yet can't even think of hitting 1700 at USBC Nationals?

If they're 220+ yet can't bowl at Nationals, are they sandbagging?

No, simply put they aren't that good.  Their ability is not nearly what their average allows them (or others apparently) to think it is.  Do you disagree?

Steven

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Eagle, this isn't about the value of a given THS average, what a bowler can accomplish at nationals,  or 'ability' independent of the equipment on the hand.


Keep it simple and on topic. This is about bowling to full capability in league situations. That means trying to score as high as possible every week. Any bowler who consciously performs at a level less less than their capability is unethical and subject to sanction under rule 115a if the behavior is blatant and measurable over a period of time.


Nobody said it's easy to catch. But it does exist.

So Eagle, you feel a bowler's average is independent of their ability? 
Without question a bowler's ability is completely independent of their average.  I'm shocked that anyone on this board would think otherwise.

How else would you explain the VAST majority of bowlers that can average 220+ at their home center, yet can't even think of hitting 1700 at USBC Nationals?

If they're 220+ yet can't bowl at Nationals, are they sandbagging?

No, simply put they aren't that good.  Their ability is not nearly what their average allows them (or others apparently) to think it is.  Do you disagree?

EagleHunter

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Steven,
I am really surprised that you are having such a hard time understanding this issue.

First, keeping it "simple and on topic"...
1. Are any USBC rules being broken?  NO
2. Could someone file a complaint?  YES - for anything, at any time
3. Could they prove cheating?  NO

Now, for the more nuanced discussion that you seem to not understand...

First, my last post answered a question posed by spmcgivern...is a bowler's average independent of their ability? (You can reread my response to that question.)  Simply put, YES.

You seem to think that by using a plastic/urethane ball (based on the OP), which may in fact lead to lower scoring potential, the bowler is performing to less than their ability.  I call BS.  It is most likely true that the bowler's scoring potential decreases, however his overall ability does not.

The USBC rule book speaks only of the bowler performing to the best of his ability, NOT to the highest scoring ability.  This may seem counterintuitive, but it is not. 

I think we could all agree that in most league situations (which typically involve the THS) a reactive ball will most likely lead to the highest potential for high scores.  So does this imply that any bowler not using a reactive ball is knowingly performing at less than their ability?  Certainly not, although their potential for higher scores is most likely considerably lower than those that are using a reactive ball.  What about the bowler who has the reactive ball but, quite frankly, is too stupid to know the proper area of the lane to play and, consequently, struggles to "score" as well as he should?  Is he cheating or just stupid?

The problem is the perception of intent.  You believe, based on the OP, that the bowler would be cheating because he could be scoring higher.  While it may be true that he could score higher, there is no way you could accuse him of cheating...unless he purposely flagged spares or intentionally picked off the corners on his 1st shot.

Walk into almost any league in this country and you will find bowlers that are still using decades-old equipment.  I would guess that in 95% of those bowlers, if someone gave them current equipment their scores would go up.  Does this mean they are cheating?  Of course not.

And that my friend is the point.  USBC cannot legislate that all bowlers should use ANY type of equipment that would allow them to score higher than they otherwise would with their current equipment.  Yet that it exactly what you are arguing here.  Just because a bowler has equipment that could allow him to score higher, you assume he MUST use it.

You can take issue with it if you like, but no rule breaking is occurring.  What you seem to desire is this...every bowler should be trying to score as high as possible at all times and USBC should ensure this is happening.  But if that were the case, then shouldn't the type of ball be mandated by USBC (the one that would be most conducive to scoring in that particular environment)?  And shouldn't they provide a graph showing exactly where each style of bowler should be playing (in order to make sure that the bowler is going to score as high as possible)?  Then any bowler that deviated from these guidelines would be knowingly cheating because they were NOT using the guidelines that would allow them to score the highest.

Such a thought is ludicrous, yet that is exactly what you are suggesting. 

spmcgivern

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Eagle, the difference is INTENT.  That is the only argument here.  Not what some old guy is averaging with the only ball he has.  Not what a new guy is averaging when he doesn't know where to throw or which of his 2 or 3 balls is best suited.  This discussion is only about the person who is purposely using a particular ball to purposely average lower than they would with a ball they already own and would use under different circumstances.  This bowler knows what ball of theirs would be best suited and consciously decides not to use said ball in order to keep his average low. 

I do agree there is nothing that can be done to prevent this.  I doubt it really happens much.  The intent of the OP was to only ask if that scenario could be legislated.  I feel most everyone agrees it would be near impossible to prove.  Only one person has stated a situation where any action was taken.  The culprit accepted his punishment and has moved on.  That says there was some truth in the original accusation.

Back to my question about if a bowler's average is independent of their ability, I was referring to a individual case.  I didn't explain very well my question.  The question was more about if you see a person's average in a particular league is 210.  One would assume he is a 210 average bowler on that shot.  May not have been the best question to ask. 

But to end, I know of a person who has started every season for the last 4 years with urethane under the premise of "working on their game".  This bowler will bowl with said ball into the second half of the season and finish the season with a normal arsenal of equipment.  This equipment is nothing fancy or new, just equipment he has accrued over the years.  Oh, and the kicker is, he has won most improved 3 of those 4 years.