Author Topic: The True Reality Of Bowling "Integrity" (Read 7018 times)

txbowler · « **on:** April 09, 2013, 10:12:48 AM »

We always seem to have topics going on this board about the integrity of bowling and the need to toughen shots so bowlers will need to practice more and the true talents will rise to the top etc, etc, etc.

My question is always why?

What is the motivation for a bowler to be the best at this sport?

In any other sport, that answer is pretty simple. Lots of money.

I can see people willing to put in all the hours of practice, gym work, gaining of knowledge, working with your equipment if the pay-off at the end of all that work was a lot of money.

But in bowling it is not.

You know why kids are willing to work at football, baseball, tennis, golf, poker, basketball etc. Because if you become at professional in one of those sports, and you make it to TV, you are a millionaire. You are a millionaire playing a game that you love to play.

That is not the case in bowling.

The best bowler in the world may not even be a professional, because he can make more money in his 9-5 day job and still bowl some tournaments now and then a make a little cash on the side. But he never really focused 100% on bowling because there was never any real financial incentive to do so. So he never maximized his talents.

When you are the best bowler in the world, what you make a few hundred thousand? If you are not in the top 5, you are making under 6 figures.

Most IT programmers with 10 years of experience are making more than that these days. Why would they give that up, to put in all the hours of practice and expenses to become the best bowler in the world if they had the talent.

That's the real problem with bowling.

bradl · « **Reply #16 on:** April 09, 2013, 01:49:12 PM »

Quote from: storm making it rain on April 09, 2013, 01:21:46 PM

Along with that, why are the entry fees so low in a professional tournament? Poker Main Event entry is 10K, idk what it costs to enter a PGA tournament but i'm assuming it's alot higher than the $500 entry to the Masters or US Open. Are bowlers too cheap to drop $1500 on an entry fee? Would people pay that much if the first prize was 100K?

Is it $1500? Last I remembered, and this was 8-9 years ago, so I may be WAY off, but wasn't the entry fee to PBA tournaments roughly $250 - $300?

Actually, may have well gone up significantly, since the TAC has an entry fee from $300 - $900 depending on how many rounds you want to go..

The other thing here is that once you win a pro title, you're stuck. You couldn't bowl another (of these) amateur tournament without dropping your PBA card; it also appears that for the TAT series, the restrictions have gotten tighter:

http://trueamateurtournaments.com/index_files/Page787.htm

Quote

The True Amateur Tournament Inc. (TAT) is open to only Amateur bowlers, male and female of any age.
Touring Pro members that make 6 or more stops on the PBA. or PWBA, in the last 10 years are not eligible.
Other PBA/PWBA members, are also not eligible for three years after dropping their PBA/PWBA card.
Anyone under 63 years old who has won any National Pro Title is not eligible.
Bowlers that won a PBA regional in the last 7 years, including PBA Doubles, ABC MASTERS and WIBC Queens National Tournaments in the last 7 years canâ€™t participate (Senior & Womenâ€™s Regionals do not count).
All seniors over 63 yrs old that are not PBA members are eligible to bowl the TAT, except bowlers who have won a National Title in the last 10 years.
Any person, under the age of 63 that has received a check or cash, of $10,000 or more in the last 3 years is not eligible to bowl in TAT events (handicap & team events donâ€™t count). This represents specific event Prize Money and does not include amounts won in side pots, brackets, or drawings won by chance.
TAT $10,000 winners must sit out for 1 year or 2 consecutive tournaments before returning to the TAT.
Bowlers that have won $10,000 in a 205 division or Handicap Division may bowl but only in their age division or RNF division depending on the quality of the bowler.
Members of Team USA or Junior Team USA are ineligible for 3 years.
Bowlers cannot have appeared on television since 2003.

As for your last question, I'm trying to find what the entry fee was when the Int'l Eliminator had a $1 million prize. Now, mind you, that was $1 million to the WINNER, not total prize fund.

BL.

Gizmo823 · « **Reply #17 on:** April 09, 2013, 02:17:44 PM »

Entry to PBA tournaments is roughly 400 dollars, he was asking why the entry was so low and if people were too cheap to pay 1500 to enter. Then he furthered the question by asking if they would spend that much if the payout was more.

Honestly though, for a 400 dollar entry and a 25k top prize . . those ratios aren't bad, just neither one is a lot of money.

storm making it rain · « **Reply #18 on:** April 09, 2013, 03:17:24 PM »

Quote from: Gizmo823 on April 09, 2013, 02:17:44 PM

Entry to PBA tournaments is roughly 400 dollars, he was asking why the entry was so low and if people were too cheap to pay 1500 to enter. Then he furthered the question by asking if they would spend that much if the payout was more.

Honestly though, for a 400 dollar entry and a 25k top prize . . those ratios aren't bad, just neither one is a lot of money.

I bowled the Masters in 2003 the entry fee was $500. That year there was 536 entries and first place paid 100K.

This past year the Masters entry fee was $500 (I think). This year there was 468 entries and first place paid $50K.

Decline in entries was a net loss of $34K, and i'm sure sponsor dollars were down as well. My question is would pro bowlers pay $1500 to enter an event (maybe even just the majors) if the top prize was let's say $250K? Would any of you on here as an amateur bowl in the Masters or US Open if the entry fee were $1500?

Gizmo823 · « **Reply #19 on:** April 09, 2013, 03:46:17 PM »

Quote from: storm making it rain on April 09, 2013, 03:17:24 PM

Quote from: Gizmo823 on April 09, 2013, 02:17:44 PM
Entry to PBA tournaments is roughly 400 dollars, he was asking why the entry was so low and if people were too cheap to pay 1500 to enter. Then he furthered the question by asking if they would spend that much if the payout was more.

Honestly though, for a 400 dollar entry and a 25k top prize . . those ratios aren't bad, just neither one is a lot of money.

I bowled the Masters in 2003 the entry fee was $500. That year there was 536 entries and first place paid 100K.

This past year the Masters entry fee was $500 (I think). This year there was 468 entries and first place paid $50K.

Decline in entries was a net loss of $34K, and i'm sure sponsor dollars were down as well. My question is would pro bowlers pay $1500 to enter an event (maybe even just the majors) if the top prize was let's say $250K? Would any of you on here as an amateur bowl in the Masters or US Open if the entry fee were $1500?

Pro bowlers would, as an amateur, I'm very hesitant about spending even that much to go to the Masters or US Open. I don't have any opportunities to practice on that stuff let alone the money for all the equipment I'd need. Now if I had all that stuff, sure, I'd pay 1500. 1500 is a little steep for most people, considering there's probably 1500 in traveling costs. For most people, that's a months salary spent on a tournament you're probably not even going to cash in. Now, if low in the money was 5k+, that wouldn't be too bad of a deal.

bradl · « **Reply #20 on:** April 09, 2013, 05:44:55 PM »

Quote from: Gizmo823 on April 09, 2013, 03:46:17 PM

Quote from: storm making it rain on April 09, 2013, 03:17:24 PM
Quote from: Gizmo823 on April 09, 2013, 02:17:44 PM
Entry to PBA tournaments is roughly 400 dollars, he was asking why the entry was so low and if people were too cheap to pay 1500 to enter. Then he furthered the question by asking if they would spend that much if the payout was more.

Honestly though, for a 400 dollar entry and a 25k top prize . . those ratios aren't bad, just neither one is a lot of money.

I bowled the Masters in 2003 the entry fee was $500. That year there was 536 entries and first place paid 100K.

This past year the Masters entry fee was $500 (I think). This year there was 468 entries and first place paid $50K.

Decline in entries was a net loss of $34K, and i'm sure sponsor dollars were down as well. My question is would pro bowlers pay $1500 to enter an event (maybe even just the majors) if the top prize was let's say $250K? Would any of you on here as an amateur bowl in the Masters or US Open if the entry fee were $1500?

Pro bowlers would, as an amateur, I'm very hesitant about spending even that much to go to the Masters or US Open. I don't have any opportunities to practice on that stuff let alone the money for all the equipment I'd need. Now if I had all that stuff, sure, I'd pay 1500. 1500 is a little steep for most people, considering there's probably 1500 in traveling costs. For most people, that's a months salary spent on a tournament you're probably not even going to cash in. Now, if low in the money was 5k+, that wouldn't be too bad of a deal.

As an amateur, probably not $1500..

Could someone correct me if I'm wrong here.. is the US Open open to amateurs? I only thought that the Masters was..

If it isn't open to amateurs, then the way I could see the prize fund getting bigger (as the pros could handle it) is to add another Major tournament, and raise the fees for all of the Major tournaments except the Masters, as it is open to all USBC members as well. That one would stay at the $400-$500 mark, where the other majors would be at the $1000-$1500 level.

That way, while the number of entries would drop on the other majors, the Masters would make up that difference in volume, possibly giving it the same amount of money for the prize fund.

The only other major drawback would be that those who are in the Triple Crown club would be screwed, as there would now be a Grand Slam club to get into, and those who have died or retired would be stuck..

BL.

storm making it rain · « **Reply #21 on:** April 09, 2013, 09:27:51 PM »

Quote from: bradl on April 09, 2013, 05:44:55 PM

Quote from: Gizmo823 on April 09, 2013, 03:46:17 PM
Quote from: storm making it rain on April 09, 2013, 03:17:24 PM
Quote from: Gizmo823 on April 09, 2013, 02:17:44 PM
Entry to PBA tournaments is roughly 400 dollars, he was asking why the entry was so low and if people were too cheap to pay 1500 to enter. Then he furthered the question by asking if they would spend that much if the payout was more.

Honestly though, for a 400 dollar entry and a 25k top prize . . those ratios aren't bad, just neither one is a lot of money.

I bowled the Masters in 2003 the entry fee was $500. That year there was 536 entries and first place paid 100K.

This past year the Masters entry fee was $500 (I think). This year there was 468 entries and first place paid $50K.

Decline in entries was a net loss of $34K, and i'm sure sponsor dollars were down as well. My question is would pro bowlers pay $1500 to enter an event (maybe even just the majors) if the top prize was let's say $250K? Would any of you on here as an amateur bowl in the Masters or US Open if the entry fee were $1500?

Pro bowlers would, as an amateur, I'm very hesitant about spending even that much to go to the Masters or US Open. I don't have any opportunities to practice on that stuff let alone the money for all the equipment I'd need. Now if I had all that stuff, sure, I'd pay 1500. 1500 is a little steep for most people, considering there's probably 1500 in traveling costs. For most people, that's a months salary spent on a tournament you're probably not even going to cash in. Now, if low in the money was 5k+, that wouldn't be too bad of a deal.

As an amateur, probably not $1500..

Could someone correct me if I'm wrong here.. is the US Open open to amateurs? I only thought that the Masters was..

If it isn't open to amateurs, then the way I could see the prize fund getting bigger (as the pros could handle it) is to add another Major tournament, and raise the fees for all of the Major tournaments except the Masters, as it is open to all USBC members as well. That one would stay at the $400-$500 mark, where the other majors would be at the $1000-$1500 level.

That way, while the number of entries would drop on the other majors, the Masters would make up that difference in volume, possibly giving it the same amount of money for the prize fund.

The only other major drawback would be that those who are in the Triple Crown club would be screwed, as there would now be a Grand Slam club to get into, and those who have died or retired would be stuck..

BL.

The masters and us open are both open to amateurs. That's why there are so many entries.

Gizmo823 · « **Reply #22 on:** April 10, 2013, 07:53:35 AM »

Lol, sorry, but you said "Is the US Open open?" Yup, sure is . . but yeah, that's why it and the Masters usually have 400ish entries.

tdub36tjt · « **Reply #23 on:** April 10, 2013, 08:02:05 AM »

Kids aren't thinking about money when they are playing a sport......maybe when you start getting towards the end if high school.....i worked to get better at sports in hopes to win. I'm a very competitive person and that is what drove me in sports not the dream to make millions.....

storm making it rain · « **Reply #24 on:** April 10, 2013, 08:36:32 AM »

Quote from: tdub36tjt on April 10, 2013, 08:02:05 AM

Kids aren't thinking about money when they are playing a sport......maybe when you start getting towards the end if high school.....i worked to get better at sports in hopes to win. I'm a very competitive person and that is what drove me in sports not the dream to make millions.....

Idk about that, I guess it depends on the demographic. There are plenty of football/basketball/baseball players in poverty stricken areas that their main goal is to make it to the bigs and make hoards of money. Even places like the Dominican and Cuba(which is baseball driven) most of these athletes "need" to get that good to make it to the bigs and support their families. Do they all make it, probably not. Even looking at the stars of some pro circuits, once they make all that money they (not all of them) end up blowing it on extravagant things or on their entorage.

Gizmo823 · « **Reply #25 on:** April 10, 2013, 09:14:09 AM »

Yeah I'm definitely not in bowling for the money. I know it's never gonna get me anywhere, but I still work hard on it. It's the OCD I suppose, lol.

storm making it rain · « **Reply #26 on:** April 10, 2013, 09:20:16 AM »

Yeah i got a little off topic, because we all know the money is not there for bowling. I'm the same way, i try to learn at least on thing every time I step on the lanes.

Quote from: Gizmo823 on April 10, 2013, 09:14:09 AM

Yeah I'm definitely not in bowling for the money. I know it's never gonna get me anywhere, but I still work hard on it. It's the OCD I suppose, lol.

txbowler · « **Reply #27 on:** April 10, 2013, 10:06:57 AM »

But I would think parents influence their children's sports interests. I don't think that many 7 and 8 year olds are walking around with golf clubs unless their parents want them to get interested in the sport.

The Williams sister's father was who got them totally enamored in tennis to be the best in the world.

Your telling me those parents didn't see dollar signs as any sign of motivation?

bradl · « **Reply #28 on:** April 10, 2013, 01:00:40 PM »

Quote from: Gizmo823 on April 10, 2013, 07:53:35 AM

Lol, sorry, but you said "Is the US Open open?" Yup, sure is . . but yeah, that's why it and the Masters usually have 400ish entries.

got it. Thanks. Call me old, but I keep remembering when every PBA/PWBA tournament was called an "Open", even though it wasn't always open to amateurs. Omaha Lancer Open, Greater Peoria Open, Long Island Open, US Open.. there was a time when you just couldn't tell.

And now that I think about it, we already do have a Grand Slam of sorts, with the Masters, US Open, ToC, and World Championships. For the Masters and US Open, they could keep the entry fee low and get more entries, which will even out the prize fund, and raise the fee on the other two. The only drawback I'd see would be the number of people who could afford it that aren't currently winning out on tour. If they couldn't afford it, then we may see the same people each year.

BL.

Gizmo823 · « **Reply #29 on:** April 10, 2013, 02:16:15 PM »

Quote from: bradl on April 10, 2013, 01:00:40 PM

Quote from: Gizmo823 on April 10, 2013, 07:53:35 AM
Lol, sorry, but you said "Is the US Open open?" Yup, sure is . . but yeah, that's why it and the Masters usually have 400ish entries.

got it. Thanks. Call me old, but I keep remembering when every PBA/PWBA tournament was called an "Open", even though it wasn't always open to amateurs. Omaha Lancer Open, Greater Peoria Open, Long Island Open, US Open.. there was a time when you just couldn't tell.

And now that I think about it, we already do have a Grand Slam of sorts, with the Masters, US Open, ToC, and World Championships. For the Masters and US Open, they could keep the entry fee low and get more entries, which will even out the prize fund, and raise the fee on the other two. The only drawback I'd see would be the number of people who could afford it that aren't currently winning out on tour. If they couldn't afford it, then we may see the same people each year.

BL.

Ah, then I retract the teasing, and now that you say it, I do remember when everything was called the "something-Open." Of course, with everybody being able to enter, that makes sense. The PBA has returned this year to allowing anyone to enter, though there are a few small qualifications.

Author Topic: The True Reality Of Bowling "Integrity" (Read 7018 times)

txbowler

The True Reality Of Bowling "Integrity"

bradl

Re: The True Reality Of Bowling "Integrity"

Gizmo823

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storm making it rain

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Gizmo823

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bradl

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storm making it rain

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Gizmo823

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tdub36tjt

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storm making it rain

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Gizmo823

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storm making it rain

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txbowler

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bradl

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Gizmo823

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