Author Topic: Surface Changes and USBC (Read 13941 times)

BobOhio · « **on:** September 06, 2015, 09:39:51 AM »

As stated by many experts, ball surface has the most effect on ball motion.
Which after much research, this seems to be the case. Then why does the USBC not allow surface changes during competition? Pads are available to everyone and the time to change the surface is about as long as changing a piece of tape.
Thanks
Bob

avabob · « **Reply #31 on:** September 08, 2015, 02:03:50 PM »

Actually I haven't been a proprietor for many years. My point in the original post was that it is totally unnecessary on the THS to need any kind of extremely aggressive surface. Truthfully if you can't hook a rock outside the oil line on a house shot your delivery is so flawed that nothing will hook properly. In addition, after watching a lot of bowlers over a lot of years I see 10 guys throwing balls that burn out too early for every one who needs more surface

Good Times Good Times · « **Reply #32 on:** September 08, 2015, 02:38:04 PM »

Quote from: lilpossum1 on September 08, 2015, 12:18:49 PM

I actually did learn a lot. That is why I said why adjust surface on a THS. Sport patterns, yes I can see regularly keeping on top of surface. And if I knew I was going to be bowling on heavy oil, I would adjust surfaces. But on a regular ths league where there is defined friction to the outside, I still see it as unneeded AS LONG AS THE EQUIPMENT IS STILL WORKING. And providing the bowler is not on a skill level 99.9% of us will ever have a hope of reaching. Maybe the issue is that, in every house I bowl at, I get my best reaction at roughly 4000 grit and slightly polished equipment, which is where the surface scans show a ball ending up at in that video. I doubt the factors that effect those numbers will change it too much. If I use equipment at a lower grit, my balls start burning up by the end of the first game. If I go higher, I lose the control I need. Also, if I keep everything at the same grit, I can control reaction shape and strength with ball choice and drilling.

And Good Times, there is no need to be condescending all the time. I'm here to learn and try to understand the game better. When i am wrong, which is frequently because I don't have a full understanding of the theoretical side of bowling, I welcome people saying "hey this is where you are wrong," and correcting me. What I don't welcome is someone saying "you didn't learn a single thing from all those excellent responses, did you?" Or whatever you said, without actually answering my new question which was different from my first question because of the answers I received. You sir are just another dick behind a keyboard trolling the Internet for fun.

I'm not a troll, I actually offer advice, trolls offer none. Post #1 of this thread, right on topic. Condescending...I can come across as that but that doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about.

If not maintaining surface is working, then don't do it. I bowl on multiple lane surfaces and different length/volume THS' as well as tournament and sport patterns (I assume you may not) so to me, clean and fresh surfaces are optimal. Just because China masks things doesn't excuse laziness, IMO. Good habits are good habits.

Listen to Kidlost, he's offering great advice.

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #33 on:** September 08, 2015, 03:04:10 PM »

lilpossum1 and avabob are all THS the same?

No, because of topography, oil machines, temp, and other conditions not all THS are the same. Even in some houses depending on the day of the week.

lilpossum1 for varying ths and depending on the ball and the line will depend on how much you will keep up with on surface and cleaning ect. Like you mentioned, for you it isn't really as necessary as maybe needed for others. Especially depending on what type of surface finish you maybe using. Let the ball reaction be the deciding factor on when you need to refresh the surface. For difference THS in different places and different bowlers more surface maybe needed for different reasons. How long that surface last will also vary some.

My point in the original post was that it is totally unnecessary on the THS to need any kind of extremely aggressive surface. Truthfully if you can't hook a rock outside the oil line on a house shot your delivery is so flawed that nothing will hook properly. In addition, after watching a lot of bowlers over a lot of years I see 10 guys throwing balls that burn out too early for every one who needs more surface

I disagree. Too many factors for too many bowlers depending on the center, ball, and line they are trying to play. Broad general assumptions in a varying environment as bowling isn't such a great way to think. So if everyone isn;t playing off of the "defined" friction outside they may need different surface to play where they are. Or if they are speed dominant, or whatever may be the case. It will vary. There are few absolutes in bowling, there are plenty of variables.

Good Times Good Times · « **Reply #34 on:** September 08, 2015, 04:56:17 PM »

lilpossum, as much as you may think I'm a dick, I really do want to see you get better and achieve your goals in the game. The very fact you're asking questions shows your dedication.

JustRico · « **Reply #35 on:** September 08, 2015, 05:00:26 PM »

Things a VAST majority of bowlers - AT ALL LEVELS - do NOT truly understand is actual ball motion and/or conditions...for reaction to be optimum - carry wise - ALL bowling balls have to slow down properly...the bowling ball does NOT know what condition it's rolling on - THS or some named condition - bowlers truly need to get past ALL the labels placed on a lane condition and LEARN how to adjust properly
And another true misconception is how to use surface correctly...hell most pro shop operators don't know how why would bowlers

avabob · « **Reply #36 on:** September 08, 2015, 07:14:40 PM »

There is a difference between taking a surface way down and keeping a fresh surface. Balls need to be resurfaced and rejuvenated. I have done all my tournament stuff in the last month. I happen to finish mine at 4000 because that surface matches up for me on a variety of conditions.

No reason for anyone to put anything less than 1000 on a ball. Putting extreme dull surfaces on a ball equates to hacker golfers who hood the driver face to avoid a slice because they cant learn how to release the club properly.

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #37 on:** September 08, 2015, 07:17:59 PM »

So is 500/2000 or 500/1000 or 360/1000 also hacker bowling? (On a THS of course not real patterns)

JustRico · « **Reply #38 on:** September 08, 2015, 07:33:06 PM »

Anybody that understands the golf swing understands that more times than not - hooding the face creates more of a slice tran anything
Truly bad analogy or comparison

JustRico · « **Reply #39 on:** September 08, 2015, 08:16:48 PM »

The only way a driver could effect a golf course similar to 1000 grit on a bowling ball is if the driver creates a spark and starts a fire burning off all the turf...

Jorge300 · « **Reply #40 on:** September 09, 2015, 10:02:25 AM »

Quote from: avabob on September 08, 2015, 07:14:40 PM

No reason for anyone to put anything less than 1000 on a ball. Putting extreme dull surfaces on a ball equates to hacker golfers who hood the driver face to avoid a slice because they cant learn how to release the club properly.

Bob, you are 100% dead wrong here. Unless you forgot to add on most THS shots. I am speed dominant, and I bowled in a house where the lanes played much tighter than the patterns normally would. In bowling on some of the PBA patterns, I found it necessary to have my ball at 500 grit. I scored well and wound up 3rd in the league in average, falling only behind a member of Team Canada and a Storm Amateur staffer. Kidlost is correct. A lot depends on the lanes and the bowler. You can't make blanket statements like this.

Steven · « **Reply #41 on:** September 09, 2015, 11:02:30 AM »

Jorge, look at what Bob posted earlier:

Quote from: avabob on September 07, 2015, 12:38:08 PM

If I was a proprietor, I wouldn't allow any ball on my lanes that appeared to be less than 1000 grit. With bone dry outside 10 board on most house shots there is no reason to throw balls that shorten the life of my investment by literally years.

He clearly made his comments within the context of a THS.

There are always exceptions to what a THS is. All we can discuss what is generally true most of the time. Like for any topic, if we get caught up in the one-offs, it only promotes confusion.

What's generally true is that house shots are defined by lateral friction on the lanes. When you have free hook to the left or right, you don't need excessive surface on the bowling ball to be successful. In fact, I'd argue it's counterproductive in most cases. But to each his own.

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #42 on:** September 09, 2015, 11:53:38 AM »

Too many assumptions. So because the outsides are drier for anyone to have surface at 1000 or lower is wrong and they are a hack? (As previously mentioned)

We aren't concerned about their style of bowling, what ball they are throwing, or where they are at on the lane?

That's radical

Steven · « **Reply #43 on:** September 09, 2015, 12:11:11 PM »

Quote from: kidlost2000 on September 09, 2015, 11:53:38 AM

Too many assumptions. So because the outsides are drier for anyone to have surface at 1000 or lower is wrong and they are a hack? (As previously mentioned)

We aren't concerned about their style of bowling, what ball they are throwing, or where they are at on the lane?

That's radical

What are the 'assumptions' of which you speak?? It's really pretty simple. On most THS's, drier outsides = free hook. You don't need 500-1000 grit surfaces to bounce a ball to the pocket. So why go to more extreme surfaces that has far more downside than up?

JustRico · « **Reply #44 on:** September 09, 2015, 12:22:22 PM »

Again too many like to make blanket statements of so-called named conditions...
I bowled league on a heavy wet/dry condition....I was taught to follow the oil/conditioner as it'll minimize transition issues...well there was over 100 units in the middle...how would you recommend playing that condition? The dry/friction area was 4 units...
I'm sorry too many making assumptions on how conditions should be played eliminating the true variables is slanderish as well as extremely harmful...
Social media is going to be the final decline of competitive bowlers improving...too many know-it-nothing's

xrayjay · « **Reply #45 on:** September 09, 2015, 12:29:26 PM »

Just like real fake stores on Facebook that many ppl believe are true. Social media does have its drawbacks in learning things. Ppl tend to forget the real world experiences and believe the water in the pot is hot.

Author Topic: Surface Changes and USBC (Read 13941 times)

BobOhio

Surface Changes and USBC

avabob

Re: Surface Changes and USBC

Good Times Good Times

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kidlost2000

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Good Times Good Times

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JustRico

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avabob

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kidlost2000

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JustRico

Re: Surface Changes and USBC

JustRico

Re: Surface Changes and USBC

Jorge300

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Steven

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kidlost2000

Re: Surface Changes and USBC

Steven

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JustRico

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xrayjay

Re: Surface Changes and USBC