win a ball from Bowling.com
« previous next »
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Surface management  (Read 1639 times)

chipmunkbowler

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 282
Surface management
« on: May 23, 2009, 10:37:02 AM »
what would you say is the lowest grit to go to with abralon pads to still be within reason... I would have said 1000 grit but i'm not sure

Edited on 5/23/2009 6:38 PM
Logged

 

J_Mac

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6778
Re: Surface management
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2009, 06:40:58 PM »
The less friction in play, the lower the grit.  

On A THS very few bowlers would need something duller than 1000 abralon, but turn to a flat, long, and high volume sport shot and even 1000 isn't enough.
Logged

chipmunkbowler

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 282
Re: Surface management
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2009, 06:45:01 PM »
i was thinking 500 would be for a flooded shark or something but 360 or 180 is just too far i think
Logged

Juggernaut

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6498
  • Former good bowler, now 3 games a week house hack.
Re: Surface management
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2009, 06:45:47 PM »
I was looking for a smooth reaction without an over-reaction, so I took my RAZYR down to 500 abralon.

 I can use it on medium  oil with a swing to the dry and a smooth reaction on the backends.
--------------------
Good transactions list in my profile

"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein



Logged
Learn to laugh, and love, and smile, cause we’re only here for a little while.

Strider

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6760
Re: Surface management
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2009, 08:26:46 PM »
1000 Abralon is pretty close to 500-600 grit standard US wet/dry sand paper.  If that's not dull enough for you, you need talent, not more surface.  Before I knew about the grit difference between Abralon standard grit sand paper, I used 1000 Abralon on my Tsunami and 500 Abralon on my Weapon of Mass Bias because I like how Abralon finishes a ball.  The Tsunami was definitely earlier/stronger than I was used to and the WMB was basically unusable even on Shark and Scorpion.  It read the lane so early that it basically puked before it could skid/hook/roll.  1000 Abralon or 600 (green) Scotch Brite are my limits for a finished ball surface.
--------------------
Penn State Proud

Ron Clifton's Bowling Tip Archive
Logged

SKC

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 463
Re: Surface management
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2009, 08:50:32 PM »

Whatever that works for you.. All depending your style of play, oilpattern and lanesurface..

I personally have not had success with 360 grit.. Yet..

A kid i coach once threw a 360 grit Storm - Dimension on a short/Cheetah-like pattern.. Worked like a charm.. But again, he had the speed and revs to make it work..


--------------------


Tough times don't last, tough people do...

Aggression is an attitude, not an emotion...

Logged

dursty

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 165
Re: Surface management
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2009, 09:28:33 PM »
I've used 360 before.. but after hitting with 360 hit it with a higher grit like 1000 or 2000 after.  This idea is that you still want the sanding lines there but you want to knock down the 'peaks' so the ball will still clear the fronts and not burn up instantly.  Keep in mind this is for very tight lanes, and then only for a game or two at max.
Logged

Strider

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6760
Re: Surface management
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2009, 10:47:20 PM »
I guess some who's highly speed dominant could use more surface, but from my experience, once you get past a certain surface, more just doesn't help.  You chew up the head oil and the mid lane, and destroy what little angle you had to begin with on very oily conditions.  A ball with less surface can be thrown (rolled, not turned) straighter (and used much longer) just looking for a little tilt on the back.  A few years ago I was in a tourney where no one was getting any movement to speak of, even the guys with a lot more hand than me.  House bowlers used to dry outsides threw tons of balls in the gutter thinking it might hook just once.  I used my 1000 (sand paper) Tsunami (far from a strong ball, especially with my drilling) and played the lanes very straight just looking for a few boards the last few feet.  Won first place going away.
--------------------
Penn State Proud

Ron Clifton's Bowling Tip Archive
Logged

Dan Belcher

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3954
Re: Surface management
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2009, 08:38:36 AM »
quote:
1000 Abralon is pretty close to 500-600 grit standard US wet/dry sand paper.  If that's not dull enough for you, you need talent, not more surface.
Try using that logic in the Bradley Open, where you get 53 feet of oil on synthetic lanes.  Everybody that bowled well in that back in January was using 500 abralon or rougher.

But otherwise, on anything resembling a normal oil pattern, I can't use anything duller than 1000 abralon, and even then I can rarely use that!
Logged

Strider

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6760
Re: Surface management
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2009, 09:05:27 AM »
That IS my point.  Nothing hooks on oil.  So at 53 feet, the ball only has a few feet to do anything.  Super dull balls will just suck up the head and mid lane oil, and redeposit it on what little dry area you had to start with.  If they were swinging their 500 grit abralon equipment, then it wasn't super heavy to begin with.  Milder equipment would probably done just as well to start, and would have held up longer.

Last summer, our position round was on the old 50' TOC pattern.  We were on 1 and 2 so I was able to walk down beside the lanes to get a look at it.  The oil only stopped a few feet in front of the head pin, certainly not 10 feet.  My 600 grit (Scotch Brite) Weapon of Mass Bias thrown softly, went straight down the lane from any angle, hit the pin deck (could have been just in front, but couldn't tell from 60 feet away), and THEN hooked.  Ball selection really didn't matter much.  I knew what a sponge the ball is so I put it away.  That ball can destroy it's own line easy enough.  I used a 1000 grit (sand paper) Tour Power and had the first or second best score for the league.  Again, really straight through the heads, just looking for a little tilt the last few feet.  I was amazed that I never left an 8-10 or 5-7-10.

Now, if several people are willing to throw their sponges all during practice, and maybe the first few frames of the first game trying to burn a spot to bank more normal equipment from, that's a little different.  It takes time and effort, and every one has to be on the same page, but you can try to manipulate the lanes like the PBA.  But I still don't think a super dull ball is the way to go long term.
--------------------
Penn State Proud

Ron Clifton's Bowling Tip Archive
Logged

Dan Belcher

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3954
Re: Surface management
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2009, 09:57:20 AM »
quote:
That IS my point.  Nothing hooks on oil.  So at 53 feet, the ball only has a few feet to do anything.  Super dull balls will just suck up the head and mid lane oil, and redeposit it on what little dry area you had to start with.  If they were swinging their 500 grit abralon equipment, then it wasn't super heavy to begin with.  Milder equipment would probably done just as well to start, and would have held up longer.
I had the same thought as you and used a Cell at 1000 abralon, and it never hooked.  Literally.  Normally people exaggerate on this forum a lot, but my ball went 60 feet straight the first time I threw it.  I had used the same setup on the old 50' ToC in my PBA league and had a great look with it.  I had no look with it on this pattern with that ball.  On fresh oil, you had to get the ball to hook in the midlane and set -- it's not like we're talking about a heavy volume of oil, but certainly enough that you couldn't get the ball to turn much.  It wasn't until the second block where people could actually get some decent reaction, and scores went up.  Just way too tight to actually get any motion on the backend.  53 flipping feet of oil makes it IMPOSSIBLE to get any backend reaction unless you roll the ball 7mph since the ball can't transition that quickly.
Logged

SleepOnIce

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 704
Re: Surface management
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2009, 10:28:00 AM »
quote:
That's a pretty bold statement to make. When I was in juniors, I'd keep my favorite solid coverstock at 500 abralon because it was more predictable from house to house. But I guess in your mind, that makes me a hack...:rollseyes:

--------------------
Oh look, signature updating finally works.

RIP ThongPrincess


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7j_RksoT_6E&feature=channel_page
--------------------
BLARGH
Rob Stone Supporters of America!
Logged

Strider

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6760
Re: Surface management
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2009, 11:38:30 AM »
We might be splitting hairs Dan, but let me try one more time.  If a ball at 1000 abralon doesn't hook at all, I personally don't think that 500 abralon (or even 180 grit) is really going to help the ball to hook, especially in the back where it's needed.

If the format is long enough, and you can get every one to work together, you can burn a spot in the lane kind of like the PBA guys do (like I suggested last post at the end).  As you said, the lanes eventually broke down and scoring increased.  You have to be careful where the super dull balls are used.  If you play the lanes as "recommended", you'll be inside the 3rd arrow trying to not give the pocket away.  Once the sponges suck up the head oil there, you had better have lots of hand to move further inside and use the 13-14 board as your friction point.
--------------------
Penn State Proud

Ron Clifton's Bowling Tip Archive
Logged

Dan Belcher

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3954
Re: Surface management
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2009, 05:33:04 PM »
quote:
We might be splitting hairs Dan, but let me try one more time.  If a ball at 1000 abralon doesn't hook at all, I personally don't think that 500 abralon (or even 180 grit) is really going to help the ball to hook, especially in the back where it's needed.

If the format is long enough, and you can get every one to work together, you can burn a spot in the lane kind of like the PBA guys do (like I suggested last post at the end).  As you said, the lanes eventually broke down and scoring increased.  You have to be careful where the super dull balls are used.  If you play the lanes as "recommended", you'll be inside the 3rd arrow trying to not give the pocket away.  Once the sponges suck up the head oil there, you had better have lots of hand to move further inside and use the 13-14 board as your friction point.
--------------------
Penn State Proud

Ron Clifton's Bowling Tip Archive
1) Nobody's ball hooked in the backend.  You had to get it to hook around 35-40 feet (again, it's long oil, NOT heavy.  Your ball can still hook here) and lay off on the back.  This is similar to how the pros played the old ToC shot.  Also, we moved pairs after each game, so you couldn't do any lane management since people on the other pairs were playing their own game.  On this pattern, you did NOT worry about getting the ball to hook a lot unless you can rev it up 400+rpms.  The only thing you worried about was getting the ball to roll heavy enough to not deflect and leave the 5-7-10, which I saw left at least twice in my group I crossed with.  This is the ONE time where you want tons and tons of surface.  It's the ONLY thing I saw successful.  Nobody at all in this tournament did well with higher grit finishes or weaker balls.  Period.  (For some reference, Cassidy Schaub bowled the same block I did, and was 19th in my squad at +0 after 5 games.  Only two people from my squad were over +100.  The second block, which got to bowl on our leftover friction, had higher scores, but not much higher.  It was still very, very, very tight.)

But that was my entire point.  That's an abberation.  You almost never, ever see a pattern that plays that tight where there is no backend movement and you have to get the ball to hook in oil.  Even on normal longer patterns like the Shark you can get the ball to really bend on the backend and using too much surface just ruins this opportunity to create entry angle.  That's why I never carry anything dulled less than 1000 abralon, and most of the time unless I know for a fact I'm going to be on soupy conditions, I won't even carry anything duller than 2000 abralon, or 1000 abralon plus polish.
Logged
Pages: [1]
« previous next »