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Author Topic: Symmetrical vs Asymmetrical balls  (Read 14556 times)

xrayjay

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Symmetrical vs Asymmetrical balls
« on: February 21, 2016, 10:30:08 PM »
The last 11 or 12 years I've been on BR, this question probably came up a dozen or more times. But still, I have to ask....

Why do some bowlers prefer symmetrical over asymm balls? When would one choose asymmetrical balls over symmetrical ones?

I, for one, prefer symmetrical balls for its "simplicity" and I find symmetricals to be more forgiving for me on tougher conditions. But asymmetrical balls makes me look good when everything is working right.
Does a round object have sides? I say yes, pizza has triangles..

aka addik since 2003

 

JustRico

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Re: Symmetrical vs Asymmetrical balls
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2016, 10:40:21 PM »
Symmetricals are less susceptible to release variations thus more consistent...asymmetricals slow down or transition quicker thus shortening the down lane window
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xrayjay

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Re: Symmetrical vs Asymmetrical balls
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2016, 12:18:33 AM »
Symmetricals are less susceptible to release variations thus more consistent...asymmetricals slow down or transition quicker thus shortening the down lane window

ah...i just got enlightened. After some thought, asymmetrical exposes my inconsistent release. Kinda reminds me of my Sensei telling me "Jamezu, you can punch Makiwara 100 times, but only one time, you punch good yo." (yo means "you know" in Japanese)
Does a round object have sides? I say yes, pizza has triangles..

aka addik since 2003

amyers2002

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Re: Symmetrical vs Asymmetrical balls
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2016, 09:46:59 AM »
Symmetricals are less susceptible to release variations thus more consistent...asymmetricals slow down or transition quicker thus shortening the down lane window

Far be it from me to disagree with Rico because he knows more than I probably ever will about bowling but I've read a lot of Jeff Richgels stuff and he talks a lot about the reason he usually doesn't care much for Asymmetrical balls is because they don't respond to hand position changes. Basically that the asymmetrical motion overcomes the bowlers release or that's how I read it and I've read other high end bowlers and coaches who had similar opinions. Then I read this though a lot too. One of them has to be incorrect doesn't it.

I think some of it with asymmetrical balls comes down to a few things:

1. A lot of backroom PSO's just don't know how to properly evaluate a bowler and drill them. I've had PSO"s offer to drill an asymmetrical ball for me that has never seen me bowl and had no idea of what my pap, rev rate, or axis rotation were.

2. People tend to use too much ball anyway and asymmetrical balls tend to be even stronger couple this with the PSO's tending to use stronger drillings on them it makes a bad situation worse.   

3. With those stronger balls and drillings bowlers tend to play more hooking lines which reduces carry.

I have a couple of mid range asymmetrical balls with weaker drillings and I personally feel like sometimes they actually soften out some of the release mistakes I make. Asymmetrical balls also tend to hold their tilt better which helps me with my lower speed. Just trying to learn and I know just Rico isn't one of those ball drillers I've referenced here. 

xrayjay

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Re: Symmetrical vs Asymmetrical balls
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2016, 11:29:28 PM »
I'll have to get my pap rechecked before I choose  asymmetrical core ball...my game has changed a bit....also I have low tilt and the part where asymm has the ability to retain tilt longer is a good thing.
Does a round object have sides? I say yes, pizza has triangles..

aka addik since 2003

JustRico

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Re: Symmetrical vs Asymmetrical balls
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2016, 12:51:18 AM »
Asymmetrical does not retain rotation longer it loses it quicker...
Co-author of BowlTec's END GAMES ~ A Bowler's COMPLETE Guide to Bowling; Head Games ~ the MENTAL approach to bowling (and sports) & (r)eVolve
...where knowledge creates striking results...
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xrayjay

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Re: Symmetrical vs Asymmetrical balls
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2016, 03:07:20 AM »
Im confused... If that's the case, Then there's only surface prep and learning to increase tilt. I shouldn't concern myself with layouts too much like I do now lol. Just use my favorite layout on any ball and continue to use surface to get the distance I need on the conditions I bowl one - low volume high friction surface.


Does a round object have sides? I say yes, pizza has triangles..

aka addik since 2003

Channelsurfer

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Re: Symmetrical vs Asymmetrical balls
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2016, 08:22:32 AM »
Symmetrical loses tilt faster than asymmetrical.  That creates a longer hook zone because they are losing tilt but maintain rotation longer.  Asymmetrical lose rotation faster but they retain tilt longer.   That creates shorter hook zones. 
« Last Edit: February 27, 2016, 12:09:51 PM by Channelsurfer »

kidlost2000

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Re: Symmetrical vs Asymmetrical balls
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2016, 08:28:30 AM »
A lot of people say things like "asymmetric" core balls just don't roll good for me,  etc. For some reason or another likely a bad experience with a particular ball.

I have a guy that drills here locally that says it about stuff for him.  He then turns around and drills different symetric core balls with large p3 xholes and says he loves the reaction.   What many don't know is by doing that you are increasing the int diff every bit as much as a drilled asymmetric core ball or more in some cases.

…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

avabob

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Re: Symmetrical vs Asymmetrical balls
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2016, 10:01:08 AM »
As a low rev guy I like asyms when I move in, but prefer symmetrical balls when playing out.  Examples, two top balls in my bag are Paradox and IQ Tour solid.  Love the Paradox on long patterns and when I need to get deep on house shots.  It is also versatile enough to play further out, but usually not my first choice.  Tour is much better on medium to short flatter patterns where I need to keep the ball in front of me playing out further and control mid lane and back end.  Next ball in my bag is old Cobalt Vibe that is unique in being smooth off the break point for a pearl.  Again it is not a ball I get deep with unless playing on total toast.

I am also experimenting with a Lock, and it is apparent that I would never try to play more direct with it.

Bottom line, asyms hold the tip better for me when I need to go away from the pocket.  Symetricals are more controllable at the breakpoint.   Not a question of preferring one or the other.  Kind of like asking a carpenter if he prefers a hammer or a saw.     

SG17

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Re: Symmetrical vs Asymmetrical balls
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2016, 04:35:26 PM »
after a symmetric core ball is drilled, isn't it essentially asymmetric due to the loss of cover, and filler?

Or is that really only true if the holes drilled remove material from the core?

JustRico

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Re: Symmetrical vs Asymmetrical balls
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2016, 04:55:54 PM »
Unless a ball has zero offset (zero pin out and or zero top weight) it is asymmetrical...it depends upon the strength of the asymmetry whether it is relevant or not...this is where many get lost
Until the asymmetry gets into the low teens (.013+) it has minimal effect...
Co-author of BowlTec's END GAMES ~ A Bowler's COMPLETE Guide to Bowling; Head Games ~ the MENTAL approach to bowling (and sports) & (r)eVolve
...where knowledge creates striking results...
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cheech

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Re: Symmetrical vs Asymmetrical balls
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2016, 08:36:18 PM »
i believe mo pinel says under .010 int diff core balls should be laid out and drilled like sym cored balls because the int diff has minimal effect.....so all those track 505s even though they had a mass bias marking shouldve been laid out like they were symmetrical.