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Author Topic: Thumb pitch help  (Read 3023 times)

thedjs

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Thumb pitch help
« on: July 31, 2003, 01:12:26 AM »
I am having a problem with the thumb pitch.  I had been using a wrist brace and the proshop guy had
put all the thumb pitches at 0 so that I could hold onto the ball better.  Now I am trying to get away
from the brace and I am having a hard time getting out of the ball.  So, we changed to a 1/8th reverse
but I'm still having a problem.  Next step would be 1/4 reverse, right?

Well someone at the alley, not the proshop guy, tells me that the best way to go is to change
to a 1/8th forward.  He says that will make me hold the ball better and get a cleaner release at
the bottom.  Does this make sense?  Seems like using a forward pitch would compound the problem
and it would be harder to get a smooth release.  This guy says that most bowlers are now going to
a forward pitch.  Is this true?  I have always had a problem with an early release but even with that
I was able to carry a 190+ average.

I'm a senior bowler with slow speed and average revs.  I just dropped from 15lb. to 14lb. equipment.
My biggest problem right now is just getting out of the ball clean.  Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks


 

Strike300

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Re: Thumb pitch help
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2003, 08:53:20 PM »
Hmmmmmm. When I tried one of the Robby's wrist braces my span was different with it on then when it was off. I would say have your span checked with it off. Going with forward pitch is not the best way it depends on the bowlers hand. When I added some forward pitch I couldn't get my hand out of the ball You might be holding on to the ball too tight and consequently delaying your release. Heres a link to look up the The Bowlers Release http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/roncarchive.htm   In the article it says a early release is not a bad thing but a good thing. Also if you know your span here is an article to let you know where it should pretty much be.                   Span length of 4 inches = 1/8 forward
length of 4 1/4 = 0 forward reverse
length of 4 1/2 = 1/8 reverse
length of 4 3/4 = 1/4 reverse
length of 5 = 3/8 reverse
length of 5 1/4 = 1/2 reverse

If dropping the ball go 1/8 forward from these tables if hanging go 1/8 reverse.                                                                        Grab a coke bottle or can, where does your thumb tip point in relation to your fingers.

Index finger = 1/8 lateral out or left for righties
Between Index and middle finger = 0 lateral pitch
Middle finger = 1/8 lateral right or under palm for righties
between Middle and ring finger = 1/4 lateral right or under palm for righties.
Ring finger = 3/8 lateral right for righties.

The lateral pitch setting determines the amount of turn one can generate while staying behind the ball.

All pitches are neither good or bad. They are just what fits your hand in relation to span and your natural anatomical lateral pitch.

Adjustments are then made based on whether one is dropping, not getting enough turn etc.
Thanks to Luckylefty for this 1. I got my measurements and they were right with these. The ball feels great to me. I had to go to another pro-shop 50 miles away to achieve this. Worth every little bit.



Brickguy221

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Re: Thumb pitch help
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2003, 08:56:05 PM »
That's how I solved my problem Thedjs. I went to 1/8 reverse and zero lateral on the thumb. On the fingers, I went to 1/16 forward on the fingers and use the tapered side of Turbo Quad grips, which probably gives me 1/8 or so total forward pitch. Going forward with the fingers tightens up your span so you will have to decrease it. Can't tell ylou how much as it is trial and error. I decreased my span 1/8 and it is perfect. I had 15-16mph speed and low to medium revs. I now have the same speed, but cleaner release, never hang up with the thumb anymore, a livlier ball, and more revs. Since I now never hang up in the ball anymore, I have been able to shed my wrist device and bowl without it. First time in over 20 years w/o a wrist device. It didn't come easy arriving at the correct span and pitches as I probably had my experiment ball plugged and redrilled at least 12-14 times, but it was worth it as I now have the perfect grip for me.
"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away"

the pooh

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Re: Thumb pitch help
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2003, 12:38:31 AM »
Despite the charts and what many people believe,many bowlers are going to forward and even extreme forward pitchs in their thumbs with great success.I,myself,have gone from traditional pitches to 5/8 forward and 3/8 left lateral.I now have the best release I've ever had,the best feel,and the highest average and scores I've ever had!I am switching many bowlers to forward in their thumbs and almost all are very pleased! Most state,like myself,that I will NEVER use reverse in a thumb again!!!The key to going to forward is to use it with the right span.Since most bowlers are over spanned anyway,this will most likely be shorter than what you have.Another important point is to have the proper bevel.If the span is right,the bevel will not have to be much more than before the pitch change.Always remember,just because we have done something a certain way for many years does not make it the best or only way.This change definitely deserves your consideration and may well be the absolute best thing you could do for your game!
--------------------
THE POOH
the pooh

Splitz

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Re: Thumb pitch help
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2003, 09:59:17 AM »
I am just going through a ball refit to try to get out of the ball cleaner.  The only thing I can say for sure is forward pitch locks my hand in the ball like you wouldn't believe.  It seems that the flexibility of your fingers and thumb is one of the most important issues.  With my overly unflexable fingers and thumb, reverse pitch is needed to get the span right.  I'd let an expert ball driller do the thinking for you.  That's what you are paying for isn't it?

LuckyLefty

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Re: Thumb pitch help
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2003, 04:03:57 PM »
I thank those for mentioning my name favorably above.

I say this:

Spans and pitches cannot be talked about in a vacumm.
They interrelate.  Forward or reverse is not good or bad!
It depends on your span and how you throw the ball.

Lateral pitch is neither good nor bad, it depends on how you coke bottle test and how you throw the ball.

What is bad is when it becomes popular to say forward and lateral pitch out is "good" and reverse and lateral under pitch is "bad"!  Or the converse!

In the discussion where Mr. Pooh stated that forward and out was working beautiful for him, that is a beautiful thing and may make perfect sense for his hand!

In other words to know whether this was good or bad we would be interested in learning his span and how he tests on the coke bottle test.

If for example his span was 5 inches and he tested out at coke bottle test 1/4 under palm then one would expect him to bowl with 3/8 reverse or thereabouts and 1/4 under palm.

If he instead at this span used 1/2 forward and 1/4 out and was revving turning and releasing the ball better than ever and scoring higher too then we would call him "good" but also acknowledge him as an anomoly and an aberation but not "bad".  

Currently I believe hear are some of bowlings Politically correct comments.

I'm trying to move my thumb pitch to forward and lateral out!
I'm trying to hit my mark more(at the arrows).
I'm using a wrist brace but just till my ______ heals.
I've got your girlfriend over here in the corner to talk about you!

Oh wait scratch that last one that has nothing to do with bowling.

REgards,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

Brickguy221

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Re: Thumb pitch help
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2003, 02:35:51 AM »
LuckyLefty is right. That is how I came up with my 1/8 reverse and zero lateral that I mentioned above. After trying every pitch imaginable, I decided to set thumb at the recommended pitch per my span and the lateral pitch per the coke can test and then "leave it there" and work on the span and finger pitches until the fit and release was right. I then began moving my span measurements and finger pitches, 1/16th at a time until I had the perfect and comfortable fit and "NEVER" hang up in the ball anymore. First time in over 20 years of bowling that I haven't had a "hang up" problem at one time or another and somethmes a lot. As said above, I probably plugged and redrilled my test ball 12-14 times arriving at what I was both needing and looking for.
"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away"

Brickguy221

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Re: Thumb pitch help
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2003, 10:53:13 AM »
Nick, I agree that it boils down to finding something that feels great. That is why I plugged and redrilled my test ball 12-14 times, (Trauma ER as it has never been any good for anything else) which enabled me to reach that feeling. Still, it is only common sense to start with your thumb drilled somewhere in the area of the recommended pitches per your span and coke can test and adjust from there. Example, the coke can test shows that my lateral pitch should be around 1/8 right lateral,  (I'm right handed) but I've found zero lateral to work best. Ditto for a slight adjustment per the span charts for forward & reverse.
"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away"

thedjs

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Re: Thumb pitch help
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2003, 02:43:05 PM »

Thanks guys for all the input.  I had my ball plugged and redrilled using a 1/4 reverse and 0 lateral.  This is
based on the charts and the coke can test.  So far, this seems to be about right.  At least I'm not hanging in
the ball.  I am going to have an old ball drilled using 1/8 forward just to see what happens.  

Since I have just gone to 14lb. equipment, some of my problems may be with the weight (used 15lb. for over
20 years).

Anyway, thanks again.

Brickguy221

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Re: Thumb pitch help
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2003, 03:46:53 PM »
Thedjs, don't jump from 1/4 reverse to 1/8 forward. That is too big of a jump at one time and you will regret it. I did all of my moving 1/16 at a time. I was 1/4 reverse and went to zero forward/reverse a 1/16 at a time. I could get out of ball at zero without hanging up most of the time, but the action of my ball died. Also you will have to reduce your span approx. 1/16 for every 1/8 that you reduce the reverse pitch. Note, I said approx. so this isn't set in comcrete. If according to the charts you are supposed to be 1/4 reverse, then 1/8 forwards isn't going to work for you. 1/8 reverse, very possible, but 1/8 forward, no. If it were me and the thumb was comfortable and I was getting out of the ball good, I would concentrate on perfecting my span and finger pitches.
That's what I did and it worked for me. Can't guarantee it would do same for you, but I suggest you try.
"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away"