Author Topic: Team averages and lineup (Read 5176 times)

Stever5000 · « **on:** August 09, 2006, 02:23:59 PM »

Alright everyone, heres the problem. I'm gonna be bowling with four guys that I've yet to meet, but I've got their names and averages from last year.. so as team captain, its my decision where to place them in the lineup.

Here's where you can chime in. I'll list the averages in numerical order, and you tell me where you think each average should be placed on the lineup and why you'd put them where they are. 146, 156, 161, 167, 211. Honestly, I don't think there's way too much of a difference in the first four averages to absolutely dictate where the placement should be, but statistically speaking, where would you place these?

-Edit: Its a handicap league. 100% of 220 if I'm not mistaking.
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Edited on 8/9/2006 10:19 PM

MegaMav · « **Reply #1 on:** August 09, 2006, 10:28:48 PM »

most clutch guy at the bottom.

least clutch guy at the top.

mix n' match in the middle.

if you havent met them, highest average at the bottom.

Edited on 8/9/2006 10:24 PM

monstercrank · « **Reply #2 on:** August 09, 2006, 10:53:57 PM »

i am curious as to the reasoning behind the responces. i have no idea on how i would build a lineup, why would you say worst goes in third?
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shakezilla9 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 09, 2006, 10:58:05 PM »

2nd
3rd
4th
1st.....
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laner7pin · « **Reply #4 on:** August 09, 2006, 11:05:19 PM »

leadoff - 167
2nd - 156
3rd - 146
4th - 161
anchor - 211

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Viva la Nacion!

Stever5000 · « **Reply #5 on:** August 09, 2006, 11:06:32 PM »

The order that has been going through my head was this:

161 -3rd in ave.
146 -5th
156 -4th
167 -2nd
211 -1st

Starting off with the 3rd highest instead of the 2nd highest, solely so the 2nd highest and 1st highest can be like a 1-2 punch when times start to get rocky.

I greatly appreciate the ideas thus far.
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http://steve.mastodonfarm.com/ where all your dreams can come true!

2005-2006 USBC Average Proof:
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mumzie · « **Reply #6 on:** August 09, 2006, 11:06:45 PM »

The nice thing about team lineups is that they can change. Start them off by averages - customary line up philosophy is put your best lane reader in lead off - put your strongest clutch bowler in anchor, next strongest 4th. It's a toss up after that who goes second or third (unless I'm on your team...)

But my dad bowled with a guy 40 years ago that felt the strongest member should bowl 3rd - I never understood why, but he'd always say that a team can build higher when the strength is from the middle out...

Ask each of your teammates if there's a position they HATE - and one that they prefer above all others. Set your priorities by what spots they hate. Me - I hate to be second on a 5 man team. Don't mind it on 4 man teams, though. Weird.

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BrunsMike · « **Reply #7 on:** August 09, 2006, 11:34:15 PM »

Id have it like Stever5000 has it, before leauges start ask them thre they hate to bowl at in a line up, then make your adjustments to the line up. I personally hate bowling 3rd or 4th, but I usually deal with it. Love being Lead off or Anchor though.
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Atochabsh · « **Reply #8 on:** August 10, 2006, 01:11:02 AM »

I hate to bowl first. So I agree that you should first ask then if they have positions they DO NOT want to bowl in.

But basically here's how it should go.

1st. ....the bowler that can come out striking to be the "intimadator"
2nd. .... the weakest bowler
3rd. .... the "glue" the bowler how is known to have no low lows. Basically a good all around bowler. You can count on this bowler alieviate the pressure off the anchor bowler. That's their job.
4th. .... Anchor. Not necessarily the highest average, but the bowler who is most stimulated to greatness by pressure.

Now, since you do not know these guys or their personalities or their bowling potential...just put them in whatever order they are comfortable in. And make adjustments accordingly

Erin

SprayNpray · « **Reply #9 on:** August 10, 2006, 01:35:10 AM »

This is my team and our reasoning:

1. 185 - pretty consistent, good spare shooter, low revs low speed. Always in the high 500's.
2. 177 - very inconsistent, can go hot to cold (and vice versa) in less than one game, even less revs and lower speed. Plays very straight.
3. 197 - versatile and can play different hand positions and ball speeds very well. Can swing the lane or play straighter with speed. Very good experience, incomplete arsenal.
4. 221 - low end cranker, has a complete arsenal and knows how to use it. Can make all the adjustments quickly. Sets the table for:
5. 215 - super experienced and good pressure bowler. Older guy with some physical ailments but you don't want to draw him in brackets. Uses one ball.

I like the idea of getting off to a good start each frame with some sort of mark. Leave it to the big boys at #4 and #5 to seal the deal. Also nice to have that wildcard at #3 who can absolutely light it up on the right night. Often the difference in a close match.
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backupball · « **Reply #10 on:** August 10, 2006, 01:40:58 AM »

I never agreed with the "traditional" approach where the worst bowler went 3rd, since often the game status is very clear by that position and the weakest bowler would be more likely to mess up in that situation.

You're dealing with 4 pretty low averages there, so the anchor has to be the good bowler, and if no one else has a strong preference, I would put the other 4 in the order: 161-146-156-167.

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #11 on:** August 10, 2006, 01:51:53 AM »

quote:
leadoff - 167
2nd - 156
3rd - 146
4th - 161
anchor - 211

--------------------
Unoffical Brunswick staff 06-07
Viva la Nacion!

That's what I'd suggest from the numbers, too. The last player is the one to withstand or put up pressure, especially in the last frames. The 1st player should be able to put some good games ahed, also for pressure reasons.
In the middle, you can mix it up, but I would put the "weakest" player in the 3rd place.
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Edited on 8/10/2006 1:49 AM

Stever5000 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 10, 2006, 03:04:13 AM »

Thanks go out to everybody who offered their input. I'll definitely keep a lot of this in mind during the first week of play.

Heh, maybe I'll get lucky and they're all really 220s but sandbagged.

Yeah, in my dreams.
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http://steve.mastodonfarm.com/ where all your dreams can come true!

2005-2006 USBC Average Proof:
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ThongPrincess · « **Reply #13 on:** August 10, 2006, 03:21:18 AM »

quote:
leadoff - 167
2nd - 156
3rd - 146
4th - 161
anchor - 211

This was my initial thinking. Anchor is your pressure player and carrying a significantly higher average than the others, I would guess that would be the 211 ave.

As for the others, I had always been told you put the weak link in 3rd to start strong and finish strong. Highest anchot, 2nd highest lead, weakest 3rd, and the others in 2nd & 4th.

Given you do not know any of the 4, you may find they have preferences as to where they bowl. Putting them in a position they do not feel comfortable with, may effect their preformance and to be honest, as long as the strongest is in anchor, the otheres are not that different in average.

Haven't I been helpful

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CoachJim · « **Reply #14 on:** August 10, 2006, 05:15:10 AM »

Is there a bunch of money involved, or is this a fun league.

If it is a bunch of money involved I would line them up infront of a coach and buy them a new ball that matches their new skills around christmas time which should pull out the second half of the year for you with all of that handicap they will have accumulated while struggling with lessons they took the first half.

If it is a friendly league the line up doesn't much matter, but since you asked, put the 211 as anchor and the lowest in 3rd and the 167 as lead off.

The rule of thumb in team placement is, you place the lower average bowlers 2nd and or 3rd, with your highest average going first to set the pace and not have too much pressure in the 10th frame, usually results in at least one good score even on a bad night, the second and third place bowlers see the first place bowler tossing strikes which makes them more comfortable so they can relax and concentrate on their games with out tons of pressure to perform which usually makes bad bowlers bowl worse. Now here is the problem with your team, I assume you are the 211 avg bowler, you don't have a 4th or anchor bowler, so you will have to anchor, and since you don't know which bowler can perform under pressure since you don't know them, you will have to change things on the fly if they improve throughout the year.

Since thier averages are considerably lower than yours, you will have to have patients, they are going to miss spares and leave horendous pin counts, you will have more success with less pressure put on them, in other words, "KEEP IT FUN".

Being the 211 average bowler and not bowling with your peers is going to be a challange to stay focussed, the other bowlers will not effect the outcome of a game with a bad game the way the 211 average bowler will, for instance if the 211 avg bowler tosses a 170 or worse game, which will happen, it would be like the 150 average bowlers not breaking 100 which is not as likely. This is just something to think about before you put pressure on them to score remember you are the weak link in a 100% of 220 handicap league, not them. They can all shoot over 320 and you can't.

Edited on 8/10/2006 5:19 AM

Author Topic: Team averages and lineup (Read 5176 times)

Stever5000

Team averages and lineup

MegaMav

Re: Team averages and lineup

monstercrank

Re: Team averages and lineup

shakezilla9

Re: Team averages and lineup

laner7pin

Re: Team averages and lineup

Stever5000

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mumzie

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BrunsMike

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Atochabsh

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SprayNpray

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backupball

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dizzyfugu

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Stever5000

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ThongPrincess

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CoachJim

Re: Team averages and lineup