win a ball from Bowling.com

Author Topic: Please critique: ball rating system  (Read 3163 times)

Luke Rosdahl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1093
Please critique: ball rating system
« on: September 27, 2017, 08:00:14 AM »
I'm probably overthinking this, should probably do more of a traditional scale that's more easily understood, but I had an idea for a different kind of rating, one that takes into consideration more factors to give you a more accurate impression. 

The scale would be based on 0, and would include 3 categories: value, hook, and versatility.  Each category would have it's own rating, and then there would be a composite rating.  A composite rating of 0 would mean you're getting exactly what you expected, a positive number would indicate a better than expected result, while a negative number would indicate a worse than expected result, and the key here is that it is relative to design intent. 

Take a ball like the Code Red.  I'd give it a 0 for value because I think you're getting exactly what you pay for with it, I'd give it a -1 for hook because it's not as aggressive as most other options at the price point, but I'd give it a +3 for versatility because it works on virtually everything, for an aggregate rating of +2 meaning that despite the cost, I think it's a good buy.

Next, take something like the Show Off.  Value would be +2 because it's a ton of ball for the price point, Hook would be +3 for the same reason, and versatility would be a -3 because it needs a LOT of oil in the heads.  It's good at what it does, but takes a big hit because it's kind of one note.  Composite +2, because you're not going to get more ball for that price. 

Next, we talk about the love of my life, the Hustle Ink.  Value I would rate +3, what you get for the price just doesn't make sense.  Hook I'd put at +1 because it does hook more than the price point would suggest, but it's not a monster, and Versatility I'd put at +3 because it's good from any angle on a lot of conditions in a lot of situations and looks good for every style of bowler, for a composite score of +7. 

Then maybe we talk about the Timeless.  I'd give it a -1 for value because it underperforms at that price.  I'd also give it -1 for hook because at that price, it doesn't hook as much as you'd expect.  For versatility I'd also give it a -1 because it's more of a niche ball, it kind of requires a certain circumstance or bowler style or condition for it to shine, total of -3. 

Yeah it's all still subjective, but so is any rating system.  I also don't really like the overall whatever out of 10 rating, because if I apply that scale to my 4 picks above, I'd put the Code Red at a 9, the Hustle Ink at a 10, the Timeless at a 7, and the Show Off a 9, but for me that maybe overestimates the Code Red a bit despite how good it is because of the price point, but I can't justify dropping it to an 8 or lower because it's better than that.  That also way underestimates the Hustle Ink and rating that a "12 out of 10" is just stupid, just like people that give "110%."  That doesn't math.  Timeless fits about where I'd put it anyway, but I also don't like the Show Off rating because despite how much bang for your buck it is . . that's kind of just really what it is, it's a lot of hook for the price, doesn't really mean it's a good ball, but that's what the individualized ratings are for. 

Or is that too complicated for people to get?  Even if I explain all that every video, that's going to take up a lot of time, and how many are just going to fixate on the number and assume a traditional scale of 1-10 and say, "well he said it was a 2, so it must really be terrible."  I don't like to cater to or allow for ignorance or stupidity, but ignoring it is unrealistic.  I also realize that making something more specific also makes it more complicated, and while more information is good, if it's not simple enough to easily understand, you're kind of defeating the purpose.  Please give thoughts, suggestions, maybe better or more relevant categories, possibly an additional category or two, or just say to scrap the whole thing.  Thanks!
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 08:08:19 AM by Luke Rosdahl »
Storm Amateur Staff
Turbo Regional Staff
www.stormbowling.com
www.turbogrips.com
YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/LukeRosdahl
Twitter: @LukeRosdahl

 

CoorZero

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1245
Re: Please critique: ball rating system
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2017, 11:13:21 AM »
Maybe just do a pros and cons thing and leave numbers completely out of it?  Accomplishes the same thing without a confusing system and the math?

To me that's probably the best route. A numerical rating system that truly reflects what a ball does would need more categories, especially when you're breaking down hook, length, etc. I think that would be great and something I would check out (coming from a trusted source at least, such as yourself), but also something that many others might not want to put the effort into digesting. If it takes time then people tend to skip over it these days.

Pros and cons on the other hand are generally easier to sift through and read at a glance. As long as the format is good at least. There isn't as much of a comparison factor where you're looking back and forth at different reviews to see how all the numbers stack up against each other. I would do it, but I'm awfully particular when buying.... anything.


waterboy276

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 54
Re: Please critique: ball rating system
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2017, 12:55:02 PM »
Personally I find a comparison to similar equipment most valuable, like you made between the exist and the og no rules.  You answered the question "does it make sense to have both".  An example would be; I would like to know between the code red code black and no rules pearl.  They all seem like about the same thing.  Is there room for 2 of the 3 or all 3 even? 

Maybe that's legit info to want, maybe I'm over thinking things... 

I'd be willing to bet, and I'm sure others on here would agree, whatever you end up going with will be very helpful. 

On a side note Luke, I wouldn't mind your opinion on those 3 balls.  But I don't want to steal your thread so your call on an answer lol.
Current 'go-to's: 
- Badger Infused 50 x 5 x 30
- Truth Tour 70 x 4 x 70
- Black Widow Gold 35 x 5 x 30
- Eon 70 x 4 x 70

Coming soon:
Volt, Hyroad Nano, Flux

HankScorpio

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 460
Re: Please critique: ball rating system
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2017, 01:51:03 PM »
I'm not following the criteria for the "value" field.

You established that Hook is relative to price point. What is the other criteria that makes a ball more or less valuable than its price point? This even seems to bleed into your ratings: based on the OP, the Showoff gets a +2 for value because it hooks more than it's price point. It also gets a +3 for hook because it hooks more than it's price point. The only reason the Show Off scores as well as the Code Red is that you effectively scored it twice for hooking more than it's price point. The same is true of the Timeless, in reverse.

Counter argument to myself: It's also easy to make the argument that hook compared to price point isn't an effective way to "rate" a ball. A +3 for hook makes the Showoff seem like a good ball, but that's not the reality if you're actually looking for a HP2 ball. It's only really a plus if you want more ball for your money, so maybe the it's the Value category that makes sense whereas the Hook category does not.

Conclusion from thinking out loud: trying to "rate" bowling balls is hard.



Luke Rosdahl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1093
Re: Please critique: ball rating system
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2017, 01:52:37 PM »
And that's kind of where I stand . . I'm kind of trying to be the anti-staffer or anti-"company man," and trying to write up this rating stuff kind of seems tacked on and cookie cutter. 

However, I've heard a lot of opinions from several different angles today and am going to at least try something.  I'm going to do it, but still in my own style.  Like Milo said though, ratings are always subjective, likely going to be different for a lot of people, so what I'm going to try to do is just quantify what I'm saying numerically.  My reviews, as objective as I try to make them, still have an uncontrollable amount of subjectivity, any review of something will, but as I've experienced in the shop, some people are words people, and some people are numbers people, so if my ratings reflect what I've said, or I just try to put numbers to what I'm talking about, I'll cover a wider range of an audience and maybe help out those who are having trouble deciphering my rambling. 

I've decided to add another category and a couple qualifications.  Design intent is another category, because while the Show Off is off the charts on hook for the price, it's also miserable as far as design intent goes.  If you see it in the HP2 line and that it says it's supposed to be for medium oil, you're going to end up with a ball that hooks off the planet that you will hate and that will be a waste of money.  I'm going to try to keep actual ball reaction to words instead of numbers, because that's where it goes off the rails or gets REALLY subjective.  I think we can all agree the Show Off is a lot of ball for the price and too much ball for the line it's in though.  I'm also going to describe the reaction shape, not try to put a number to it, and my opinion on the types of conditions and/or bowlers it will be best for. 

I notice that sometimes I'll go back and watch videos and notice I didn't mention or talk about something I did in the video before, and will feel like it was missed information that needed to be there, so at least if nothing else I'll have some kind of structure rather than just writing down and reading what comes to mind, and consequently forgetting or leaving out what doesn't.  At the same time, absence of structure is kind of my thing, I don't want to morph into some commercialized advertisement, I want to still do what I do, just do it better. 

I just blow away the template and give my opinion like I would to a buddy.  May not be great impartial info like BJ but at least the entry is usually fairly short so people can skim past it quickly.  Not being on staff anywhere low motivation to go formal.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 02:08:32 PM by Luke Rosdahl »
Storm Amateur Staff
Turbo Regional Staff
www.stormbowling.com
www.turbogrips.com
YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/LukeRosdahl
Twitter: @LukeRosdahl

Luke Rosdahl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1093
Re: Please critique: ball rating system
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2017, 02:06:57 PM »
Yeah and that's exactly where I found myself, read my response to HackJandy above.  Value is kind of a combination of hook for price point AND versatility.  I also added design intent, because I came to that same conclusion, something that's a +3 on hook makes it sound really good, so I needed something else to put that in perspective.  So to edit, here's what I came up with for the Show Off after adding the new category:

Value: +1
Design Intent: -3
Hook: +3
Versatility: -2
Overall: -1

I'll explain this all in the video I'm making to explain the ratings (that in and of itself should be a clue it's going to be too complicated, right???), but hopefully this makes it more well rounded.  At the same time, hook and design intent aren't automatically going to offset, because that would be pointless, take my Sure Lock numbers for example:

Value: +1
Design Intent: +2
Hook: +1
Versatility: 0
Total: +4

It's in the premier line which is always going to knock down the value, but I still gave it a plus number because they nailed the design intent, and I think even outdid themselves a little.  Despite the price tag, it's the most aggressive ball on the market, so it gets the +1 for hook, and versatility gets 0 because it needs an absolute flood to use, but it's great for a wide variety of bowlers and styles.  So in this case, numbers that might otherwise contradict themselves, actually are both positive.  I've done mock ratings of several other balls now and adding design intent "fixed" the system.  I also want to make the point that with having the different numbers, you can do the math yourself for what matters, not everything will factor in. 

Take the Show Off, maybe all you want is a lot of bang for your buck, you just want hook as cheap as you can get it.  You see hook is a +3, and value is a +1, so your personal total is +4, would put it in the conversation for you.  However, maybe you want a medium oil ball that's user friendly and will do ok on a few different conditions, then you see design intent is -3 and versatility is -2, so it's a -5 for you.  Yeah I know there's still some subjectivity there, but maybe you don't want to spend 3 minutes digging through my babbling to decode what I'm saying, so just watch me throw a few shots, check out the numbers in the description and be on your way. 

I'm not following the criteria for the "value" field.

You established that Hook is relative to price point. What is the other criteria that makes a ball more or less valuable than its price point? This even seems to bleed into your ratings: based on the OP, the Showoff gets a +2 for value because it hooks more than it's price point. It also gets a +3 for hook because it hooks more than it's price point. The only reason the Show Off scores as well as the Code Red is that you effectively scored it twice for hooking more than it's price point. The same is true of the Timeless, in reverse.

Counter argument to myself: It's also easy to make the argument that hook compared to price point isn't an effective way to "rate" a ball. A +3 for hook makes the Showoff seem like a good ball, but that's not the reality if you're actually looking for a HP2 ball. It's only really a plus if you want more ball for your money, so maybe the it's the Value category that makes sense whereas the Hook category does not.

Conclusion from thinking out loud: trying to "rate" bowling balls is hard.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 02:10:14 PM by Luke Rosdahl »
Storm Amateur Staff
Turbo Regional Staff
www.stormbowling.com
www.turbogrips.com
YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/LukeRosdahl
Twitter: @LukeRosdahl

AlonzoHarris

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1943
Re: Please critique: ball rating system
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2017, 03:13:52 PM »
Personally I find a comparison to similar equipment most valuable, like you made between the exist and the og no rules.  You answered the question "does it make sense to have both".  An example would be; I would like to know between the code red code black and no rules pearl.  They all seem like about the same thing.  Is there room for 2 of the 3 or all 3 even? 

Maybe that's legit info to want, maybe I'm over thinking things... 

I'd be willing to bet, and I'm sure others on here would agree, whatever you end up going with will be very helpful. 

On a side note Luke, I wouldn't mind your opinion on those 3 balls.  But I don't want to steal your thread so your call on an answer lol.

I will agree with this as well, that having a comparison to a ball or two in the current line helps a lot of folks. Intense comes out and people want to know how it compares to the No Rules Pearl and Code Black. Storm did some dumb sh*t and gave us a comparison to the Code Red and Sure Lock. How about telling us how it compares to the Code Black and No Rules Pearl...you know the other big boy pearl Asyms they're pushing and not an asym hybird and ridiculously strong asym solid.
Current Rotation:
PhysiX
Code X
Code Black
Axiom Pearl
Phaze III
Trend
IQ Tour

Luke Rosdahl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1093
Re: Please critique: ball rating system
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2017, 07:37:53 AM »
One of the video requirements is to compare new balls to existing balls in the line, so I'll always have at least one comparison.  Problem is it has to be within the brand.  I will likely compare the Intense to the No Rules Pearl also though, because they're in the same conversation.  I can start putting a couple extra balls in the reviews to compare to . . it doesn't take that much longer to film. 

Personally I find a comparison to similar equipment most valuable, like you made between the exist and the og no rules.  You answered the question "does it make sense to have both".  An example would be; I would like to know between the code red code black and no rules pearl.  They all seem like about the same thing.  Is there room for 2 of the 3 or all 3 even? 

Maybe that's legit info to want, maybe I'm over thinking things... 

I'd be willing to bet, and I'm sure others on here would agree, whatever you end up going with will be very helpful. 

On a side note Luke, I wouldn't mind your opinion on those 3 balls.  But I don't want to steal your thread so your call on an answer lol.

I will agree with this as well, that having a comparison to a ball or two in the current line helps a lot of folks. Intense comes out and people want to know how it compares to the No Rules Pearl and Code Black. Storm did some dumb sh*t and gave us a comparison to the Code Red and Sure Lock. How about telling us how it compares to the Code Black and No Rules Pearl...you know the other big boy pearl Asyms they're pushing and not an asym hybird and ridiculously strong asym solid.
Storm Amateur Staff
Turbo Regional Staff
www.stormbowling.com
www.turbogrips.com
YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/LukeRosdahl
Twitter: @LukeRosdahl

waterboy276

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 54
Re: Please critique: ball rating system
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2017, 12:06:13 PM »
I think just having it in the commentary would be fine otherwise so you don't have to film more.  Just saying this ball is more responsive than x and less responsive than y.
Current 'go-to's: 
- Badger Infused 50 x 5 x 30
- Truth Tour 70 x 4 x 70
- Black Widow Gold 35 x 5 x 30
- Eon 70 x 4 x 70

Coming soon:
Volt, Hyroad Nano, Flux