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Author Topic: lower end weak or not?  (Read 4437 times)

1239wsn

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lower end weak or not?
« on: October 03, 2012, 07:56:54 AM »
I am trying to drill something up for the dry. I am thinking tropical breeze or any other options that are out there. Question is; do I go with a weaker drilling? I prefer a pin down on this shot. ( I do better).

 

spmcgivern

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Re: lower end weak or not?
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2012, 08:57:04 AM »
Depends on what kind of dry you are referring to.  Dry from short oil, or dry from light oil.  The type of shot will dictate ball and layout.

As to the Tropical Breeze, it is a great dry lane ball, more control and weaker than the Tropical Heat.  Depending on what you are stepping down from, I would bet your favorite drill would be fine on the Tropical Breeze. (assuming a general light oiled THS)

cheech

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Re: lower end weak or not?
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2012, 08:58:36 AM »
the differential on this ball is very low (.009) so i would not go farther than a 4" pin-PAP. without knowing your delivery specs though it is impossible to tell for sure. i am rev dominate and went with 60x4x40 with no hole and took the surface to 2000. it is very smooth and really needs dry to move. i love this ball because unlike all other dry balls it doesnt get kicked left at the end of the pattern. if you decide to use a weaker pin i would definitely recommend a flare increasing hole

LuckyLefty

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Re: lower end weak or not?
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2012, 09:05:46 AM »
I believe Cheech is right.

The old saying used to be drill weaker balls stronger and stronger balls weaker.

This tends to make them more versatile covering the set of mediums most of us see!

Regards,

Luckylefty
PS Spmcgivern could you elaborate on your reference to short oil or light oil?
« Last Edit: October 03, 2012, 09:09:13 AM by LuckyLefty »
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Rightycomplex

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Re: lower end weak or not?
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2012, 09:27:05 AM »
Weaker drilling in weaker balls tend to make the ball squirty and more suited for heavy rev bowlers on really dry patterns. This the reason for the coined term "drill strong balls weak and weak balls strong" LL was spot on with that. Cheech is also spot on with the pin placement < or = 4". You want the ball to spin to axis quicker because of the weaker cover. The cover is going to get the ball through the pattern and you want what little influence the core has to get started as soon as possible. Along with cheech, you have no stats so ball choice, layout, surface are all impossible to recommend.
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1239wsn

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Re: lower end weak or not?
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2012, 10:08:50 AM »
Ok so what you are saying is just go with the weaker ball and use my normal or favorite drilling? I just want to be able able to control the ball and keep it on my side(righty) and have enough in the back for it to finish. Right now I am using a 300C with a bit of surface and pin down.

Thanks All!

spmcgivern

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Re: lower end weak or not?
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2012, 10:17:28 AM »
In response to LL's question (I want to preface this with the fact I am not a pro bowler nor am I a ball driller.  My opinions are simply based on my observations and understanding of ball reactions):

I am a higher rev, higher speed bowler.  My league house is somewhat light oil.  For my league shot, I tend to move in to combat the deteriorating shot during league.  The further I move in, the more aggressive the backend of the ball I need to be to combat the extreme launch angle.  Even though I can play a weak ball in the track, I prefer to play deeper where there is less traffic.  Because of my speed, my weak equipment (Avalanche Urethane) can become touchy (over/under) on this lightly oiled THS.  For me, "pin-up" drillings on pearl equipment is the most successful.  Pearl to get through the touchy fronts and the smaller VAL angle to provide the quick transition to carry.

I also run a WTBA shot tournament once a month where I put out some very short patterns that can play "dry".  However, these shots play dry because of the lack of versatility of many bowlers.  Even though I give ideas and sometimes video evidence of successful bowling on the shots, many league bowlers try to play in their "comfort zone" from bowling on the THS and instead go through every ball in their bag to try and get to the pocket.  This leads to many complaints of the shot being dry and unplayable.  On tour, many bowlers don't use the weakest ball on Cheetah.  Your stats control how the ball should react on a shot with that much vertical dry area.  Typically "pin-down" layouts and a little surface can bleed some of the ball's energy and still provide some control and energy at the pins.  This is needed to not burn all of the ball's energy too fast with that much dry area to cover.    This can sometimes mean a stronger ball than expected.

cheech

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Re: lower end weak or not?
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2012, 11:06:46 AM »
Ok so what you are saying is just go with the weaker ball and use my normal or favorite drilling? I just want to be able able to control the ball and keep it on my side(righty) and have enough in the back for it to finish. Right now I am using a 300C with a bit of surface and pin down.

Thanks All!

this ball is weaker than the 300c so if you are looking for the same strength of reaction i would go with a stronger layout. or you could drill it the same if youre looking for weaker and adjust surface/weight hole to fine tune reaction as you need

TWOHAND834

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Re: lower end weak or not?
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2012, 11:11:58 AM »
Depending on how dry and where the dry is will determine the layout and surface of the ball.  Even with it at basically .010, you dont want to drill it too strong.  The whole purpose of having that ball is to give you something that will combat the dry.  If you drill it too strong, the ball can still roll like a turd as it is still a resin ball.  IMO....everyone should have one ball for extremes, both heavy oil, and very dry.  What I would do in my situation (and everybody is different), is drill it in the 5 inch area to get the ball to get down the lane.  If your axis point is in the 4.5 area, put the cg in the grip area and use no weight hole.  If your axis is in the 5 to 5.5 area, kick the cg out and put a weight hole down to give the ball a little help on the backend and then adjust the surface as needed. 

I think a pin down ball is really good if you are on a shorter oil pattern to help control the backend of the lane.  On the flip side, if the pattern has broken down and you need extra push through the front part but still need something for the backend to help with entry angle, then do a pin up and then let your axis point determine whether you need the weight hole or not.
Steven Vance
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LuckyLefty

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Re: lower end weak or not?
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2012, 02:21:10 PM »
Great comments!

Regards,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

Strider

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Re: lower end weak or not?
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2012, 05:19:19 PM »
Twohands,

I'd agree with you with what manufacturers typically sell as "entry level" balls.  Now, I don't have the ball, nor have I seen it roll, but is it really possible to drill a ball with 0.01 differential too strong?  Unless you have 400+ rpms, it's going to have (less than?) 1" of flare.  I haven't thrown it lately to measure, but from memory, I (320 rpm) get about 2" of flare from my B/G Centaur (0.018 differential?) and it's drilled strong (~4" pin to PAP).  I'd figure you'd want to drill it strong so the flare rings have a chance to separate so it wouldn't be rolling on the oil stripe the whole way down the lane.

TWOHAND834

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Re: lower end weak or not?
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2012, 10:23:29 PM »
Strider,

Good post!  I too had the B/G Centaur.  Yes, the ball had little differential.  However, that cover was not what I call and entry level coverstock.  Charlest even debated with me in the beginning when that ball first came out and then messaged me months later saying he owed me an apology and now understood what I was trying to say about that ball intially.  Like I mentioned, everyone is different.  But even when that ball hit some dry boards and/or low volume, it could become almost uncontrollable.  If that was a true entry level ball, then why was it $190.00 retail and not $100.00?  That is why I also mentioned a weight hole down to help increase flare for the backend of the lane for the Tropical Breeze.  The reason I said not drill it too strong, was because of where the dry is.  If the dry is in the heads and midlane, then you want the ball to help push.  So I am not sure you want to "leverage" or come close to leveraging the ball, even if it has a weaker core.  NOW.....if you are speed dominate, then I could see putting a little stronger layout.  But if you are rev dominate or even have your revs matching your ball speed, I am not sure you would want to take a weak ball and try to make it strong.  Good points, Strider!
Steven Vance
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Former Classic Products Assistant Manager

1239wsn

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Re: lower end weak or not?
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2012, 08:16:38 AM »
Thank you evryone. I think I have a better understanding what I will do.