Author Topic: Has bowling "jumped the shark" (Read 6124 times)

Dogtown · « **on:** December 02, 2010, 12:34:22 AM »

I love the game of bowling. I really do. But it bothers me to continue to see the high scores that are posted on here all most daily. There has already been three 900''s shot this year. What does that mean?

Don''t get me wrong, I enjoy carring a 221 average. But in the back of my mind I know it''s in large part by the high end equipment I throw. This past Monday, I threw the ball bad. Timing was off, not getting out of the ball clean...you name it. Shot 723.

So what do I mean by "jumped the shark"? Wikipedia the phrase for more info, but.......Has bowling seen it''s prime.

Another good question would be "If USBC did alway with the reactive covers and/or cores, would you still bowl? I realize it''s almost impossible to go back, but what if the new technology in our game cost the game all of it''s integrity?

Your thoughts.........

Edited on 12/2/2010 1:03 PM

KennedyMan · « **Reply #76 on:** December 03, 2010, 08:18:49 PM »

Well there was a plastic era and they never saw scores like they did in that tournament. And there where then to. So what is the difference. KNOWLEDGE.

KennedyMan · « **Reply #77 on:** December 03, 2010, 08:20:24 PM »

Do people not evolve over time so it is ignorant to say that we as a whole are not smarter then we where 20 years ago

Juggernaut · « **Reply #78 on:** December 03, 2010, 08:21:51 PM »

quote:
Juggernaut,
I see people agree with you. But I only agree like 10%.
Here is something different what about the lane surface you want to score like the old days lets lets go back to wood. Synthetics don't brake down nearly as quick.

OK, then lets go back to wood lanes. I have no problem with that. And, lanes wouldn't break down nearly as quickly as they do if the new oil eating coverstocks on the new reactive balls didn't strip the oil off the lanes so fast. Lanes change super fast BECAUSE THE BALLS DO THAT TO THEM NOWDAYS. The older balls didn't do it nearly as much.

quote:
And are you trying to tell that the guy that use to try and wall them up with a spray gun made them as easy as a scientifically engineered lane machine.

An oil pattern is an oil pattern, no matter how it gets there. The lane man here had towels that were cut to measure from the ten board on the right to the ten board on the left. They were in a bucket into which oil was poured so that the rags got soaked, then the rags were placed on the lane and drug 35 feet. Oiled ten to ten for 35 feet and dry outside of that. You talk about an EASY shot, and that was on wood lanes with plastic and rubber balls. IT CAN BE DONE.

quote:
Are you really saying that that we haven't evolved over the last 20 years in regards to general knowledge. On how to play the lanes.Ya the equipment has made it easier. But who recalls the pros going nuts with modified plastic balls. How did that happen KNOWLEDGE.

Yes, but those are the PROFESSIONALS. They have ALWAYS been knowledgable about equipment and lane play. And at that level, the field is pretty level if ALL OTHER factors are equal. The scores were high in the plastic ball tournament, but the PBA isn't going to let their guys look bad on national TV, so the shot was set for the plastic balls

quote:
People are smarter then they use to be. If I want to know how to play a pattern I will come on here and ask you guys what to do and listen openly to all your advice and then I will go out and kill that pattern. And it didn't take any extra practice to do it. You couldn't do that 20 years ago.

SOME people SEEM smarter, but just because information is so much easier to access than ever before. You used to have to actually find somebody with knowledge, then coax it out of them. Not, with the internet, you can just come here, from the confines of your own couch, and actually talk with professionals that you could've NEVER talked to 20 years ago.
See the part of yor quote above I highlighted? That's my point exactly. Time was that you DID have to practice to be able to KILL any pattern.
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KennedyMan · « **Reply #79 on:** December 03, 2010, 08:45:21 PM »

I thought the point of your quote is that the equipment equipment equipment equip how many times did you say it was the problem. And how long ago was it that the guy put towels down to dress the lanes and how many 900's and 300's a week where shot then because I thought that was the problem that everyone is talking about. You gave me valid reasons why there are alot of other reasons the scores are so high instead of just the, one more time Equipment. And at the centre I bowl they went from beat up wood to brand new synthetics. Every week I finished in front of the ball hood and this year I don't even have to move into forth arrow. And my average is up. There is also a guy in the same league that went from 195 career average to 220+ this season with and hold your breath for this one the same ball as last year. So maybe it is only like 10% the equipment like I said

Juggernaut · « **Reply #80 on:** December 03, 2010, 09:12:59 PM »

Kennedyman, I think you've missed my point, but that is not unusual. Guys like you are set in your opinions and are not open to anyone that says otherwise.

Like I said, IT IS THE EQUIPMENT CAUSING THE HIGH SCORING RECORDS.

There have ALWAYS been talented, gifted, KNOWLEDGABLE bowlers, but there has NOT ALWAYS been incredible scoring records.

There have ALWAYS been easy house shots, but there are sanctioned 900's ONLY AFTER RESIN! Why is that? Knowledge?

Those scores did not begin to propagate until AFTER the resin revolution, until AFTER synthetic lanes, and until AFTER lighter/livlier bowling pins.

Have the laws of physics changed since 1997?

If the laws of physics haven't changed, and we have ALWAYS had talented, knowledgable bowlers capable of repeating shots, why have scores skyrocketed ONLY AFTER the technological revolution?

If the technology was the ONLY thing that changed (and it is), then the scores skyrocketed out of control (and they have), then logic says that it MUST be the technology that caused it.

Scores are higher becuse it is easier to score, not because bowlers are smarter or better or more knowledgable.
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Good transactions list in my profile

BowlingWolf · « **Reply #81 on:** December 03, 2010, 11:09:14 PM »

quote:
quote:
Quote
Diluting the accomplishments of others because of equipment/conditions (pins, balls, oil patterns) undermines our sport.

The truth hurts.
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Chucky or Jason for Head Coach of the Cowboys 2011?

Sure does.

Keep on inflating your ego by trying to deflate others's accomplishments.

Real standup stuff.

Easy10pins · « **Reply #82 on:** December 04, 2010, 12:32:09 AM »

quote:

That would be relative. There are reactive balls that hook less then the current urethane bowling balls. Old equipment also hit like a truck. Hitting power really changed a long time ago with more dynamic cores.

Lets step back in time a bit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBh7LonnHkk&feature=related

Both players have hook, both use urethane.

How many 900s were shot that year?

It's not too hard to make some changes mentioned to bring scores back to reality. Multiple 900s being shot every year is not a good thing.
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Be good, or be good at it.

You make changes like that to lower scores and you will destabilize the sport. You will lose what few league bowlers that are left.

The average league bowler doesn't care how many honor scores were shot in a year. Easy shots strokes egos and keeps league bowlers coming back. League bowlers like an easy shot because it makes them feel like they are competitive. There will ALWAYS be house bowlers who will shoot high scores/series.

Technology has advanced the game of bowling. Whether it's the ball, the lane surface, the oil used, etc. 15 yeas ago, not many golfers were hitting par 5s in 2 shots. So, was it the golfer or the equipment that got better? Did the sport of golf feel the need to nerf the equipment?
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I use whatever ball works for me.

BowlingWolf · « **Reply #83 on:** December 04, 2010, 09:13:27 AM »

The Grudge,

Nice Post--pretty much nails it--couldn't agree more.

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"What is life? It is the flash of a firefly in the night. It is the breath of a buffalo in the wintertime. It is the little shadow that runs across the grass and loses itself in the sunset."
â€”Chief Isapwo Muksika Crowfoot's last whisper

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #84 on:** December 04, 2010, 09:43:36 AM »

Yep there is technology everywhere.

Is every sport better because of it? Are there records being set daily because of them?

Duffers are not shooting 75s, just because more can hit the ball further doesn't mean they can hit it straight or putt for that matter.

Baseball has suffered and lost a lot because of steroids which made their numbers worthless. (Season and career homerun numbers.) Huge blackeye on the sport forever because of it.

Tennis has increased the ball speed but nothing else.

Hockey doesn't set new scoring records with their changes.

Football players have gotten bigger and faster, but the number of perfect seasons hasn't tripled.

Cars go faster, DE dies on the track and you have rule changes and car changes to slow things down.

Everything has changed in some way or another. Those respected sports also try and keep integrity in the game. Bowling is a near dead sport on many levels, for many reasons. (most post that any changes to the sport would kill it) So maybe changes shouldn't be made. Who cares how many 800's or 900's are shot, it will probably just be a patch someday soon.

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Be good, or be good at it.

Juggernaut · « **Reply #85 on:** December 04, 2010, 09:55:22 AM »

To the Grudge:

You make good, valid points. Thing is, I am not arguing against the technological revolution, I am only using it to explain WHY bowling has changed or "jumped the shark", so to speak. I still stand by what I said about technology and what it has done to the sport.

Technology HAS changed the game, changed the way its played, and changed the scoring pace incredibly. It isn't about my ability to "keep up", nor is it about going back to wooden balls and stuff. The question was whether bowling has irrevocably changed and why. All I tried to do was say YES IT HAS CHANGED, and then tell why.

Why do you think I am against it? Just because I realize that's what changed it? Maybe in the past I would've, but not anymore.

To everybody else:

It is not now, nor was it ever, my intention to denigrate the accomplishments of others. They shoot incredible scores now, BUT I DON'T BLAME THEM because if I ever shoot 900 you can bet you behind I will take it and I will brag, but I will also know that it took much less skill and talent than it ever would've in the past.

I am not advocating going back. I USED TO, but no more. I finally realized that you can't give something away, then ask for it back without a revolt, and bowling doesn't need that. I just wish the governing body had been a bit more judicious in what they allowed in the first place, and allowed bowling to change at a much more natural pace instead of cramming 120 years of technological advance into about 20 years.

I love the sport of bowling. Whether we were rolling dirt clods at wooden pegs or technologically advanced spheroid missiles at highly stylized pins, I still love it. I don't care which it is, I will continue to do it as long as I can, and I will always endeavour to be as good as possible.

To the OP:

Yes, bowling has jumped the shark. Technological advaancement in equipment has been the driving force behind that. It will not, CAN NOT, ever return to its former form. I think it is ridiculous that 900 can actually now begin to become a not unexpected possibility. I think a 900 should be ALMOST a statistical anomaly, not a commonly sought after and often achieved goal.
I DON'T HOLD IT AGAINST ANYONE FOR SHOOTING THE SCORES AS HIGH AS THEY CAN, that's what I do as well. I just think that PERFECTION should be just that, a rare and special thing, not a commonplace occurence. The advanced balls, easy oil patterns, special playing surfaces, and easier to knock over pins have ALL colluded to cause this situation.
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BowlingWolf · « **Reply #86 on:** December 04, 2010, 10:41:22 AM »

quote:
I just think that PERFECTION should be just that, a rare and special thing, not a commonplace occurence.

Juggernaut,

What you say makes much sense, but athletes today, bowlers included, are becoming better because of knowledge/coaching/training, which, when combined with divine ability, enables these great athletes to reach unfathomable heights not attainable by most mere mortals.

Case in point, in track and field records are being demolished quicker than ever, and one day, perhaps soon, Hussein Bolt, currently the world's fastest human, will look slow when someone else comes along and easily supplants him.

In swimming, Michael Phelps has revolutionized the sport, but someone more gifted will leave him in the mist in the near future.

Yesteryear's bowling gods, such as Andy Veripapa, Glenn Allison (The Original 900 man, although not sanctioned by ABCâ€”shamefully), Don Carter, Ray Bluth, Earl Anthony, Mark Roth, etc., were the greats of their time, and likely would be great today, but there's really no way to know for sure that they would be better than today's elite (perhaps, perhaps not)â€”so, it goes like every other sport known to manâ€”changes are always coming, and youth always serves notice.

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"What is life? It is the flash of a firefly in the night. It is the breath of a buffalo in the wintertime. It is the little shadow that runs across the grass and loses itself in the sunset."
â€”Chief Isapwo Muksika Crowfoot's last whisper

SteveAustin2808 · « **Reply #87 on:** December 04, 2010, 11:11:09 AM »

Just my two cents and depending upon all the replies this may have already been said, so if that is true then please forgive me.

Honestly, it all comes down to the level of competitiveness for that particular bowler.

There are 3 types of bowlers:

A. Recreational Bowler - regardless of what oil pattern you put out, this bowler comes in for the actual fun of the game and does not really care about scoring high all that much. This type of bowler is the kind we see MOST OF THE TIME these days. Getting them involved heavily is a goal and can be achieved, but it is here that we provide the education to them and the worth of our sport. Having a THS or 'easy house shot' can help turn them into the next kind of bowler I'm fixing to state.

B. League Bowler - Different levels of this kind of bowler but I usually say this the type that bowls 3 games a week on average and does practice maybe 1 or 2 times a week at most. With this type of league bowler, the easy shot helps motivate them into believing in themselves that they can improve their skills and achieve a goal of satisfaction on a certain level. Once again, the term 'league bowler' can be many different levels as I have only explained 1 type.

C. Tournament Bowler - Other than Handicap tournaments, this is where I believe the cream of the crop comes out in your major scratch tournaments with harder oil patterns. For that bowler who can average 220+ in league and wants to further their game, should give these type of tournaments a try just to see where they are really at. I believe in the PBA X Leagues, but most of your 'league bowlers' as described above may not have the ambition to want to try this type of stuff out and to be honest...it could in all discourage them from wanting to continue period and this is bad considering we are losing more and more league bowlers by the year. The tournament bowlers know who they are and this is where the most competitive oil patterns should take place at.

I'll agree to disagree with Visionary's original post. I see how and why you would feel this way about the sport and by all means there is nothing wrong about your thoughts. I just believe the way the game is played is that it is up to Pro Shop Operators to educate and help the Recreational Bowler (A) turn into a League Bowler (B). Then, further that league bowler into gaining enough skills to maybe wanna become a Tournament Bowler (C).

Another thing to bring to this discussion is that we have bowlers out here on these "easy" conditions and still struggle to break 600, I'll go one even lower, 550. I still firmly believe shooting a 300 game and a 700/800 series that you have to be on your game that particular league night with some luck on your side as well.

Those are my thoughts and can be disagreed with, I have no problem with that. Just what I see as a Pro Shop Operator. Thanks and God Bless!

-MP-
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McCorvey's Pro Shop Staff

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McCorvey's Pro Shop - VISIT OUR BRAND NEW ONLINE STORE!
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kidlost2000 · « **Reply #88 on:** December 04, 2010, 12:04:16 PM »

quote:
quote:
Tennis has increased the ball speed but nothing else.

Hockey doesn''t set new scoring records with their changes.

Football players have gotten bigger and faster, but the number of perfect seasons hasn''t tripled.

Cars go faster, DE dies on the track and you have rule changes and car changes to slow things down.

Everything has changed in some way or another. Those respected sports also try and keep integrity in the game. Bowling is a near dead sport on many levels, for many reasons. (most post that any changes to the sport would kill it) So maybe changes shouldn''t be made. Who cares how many 800''s or 900''s are shot, it will probably just be a patch someday soon.

None of your comments are logical. Football is a team sport. As everybody gets faster and stronger, teams gets stronger and faster. You wouldn''t and shouldn''t see more perfect seasons due to that.

You don''t think it is harder trying to return a 120 mph serve vs. a 90 mph serve in tennis? Think again.

The whole game of hockey has changed, you must not have a team in your area. Players are bigger and faster, shots are harder and faster. You see 7-5 scores now instead of 2-1 and 1-0 scores of the glory days of the Original Six.

Your racing comment is way off-base. DE died and they made the HONS device mandatory. Made the cars SLOWER? On a restrictor plate oval maybe, in NASCAR maybe. Other racing styles and factions? No way.

I also find your last comment to be very peculiar, and at the same time, very telling. Seems to me you seem to be worried about awards over everything else. If you want some 300 and 800 rings, I can send you some of mine. They are just collecting dust. Perhaps you should bowl for the competition, and striving to make your game the best it can be.

You know what guys like you miss? There is no defense in bowling, only offense. Hone your game, make your offense unbeatable, and what other bowlers do won''t matter a bit.

Have a nice day.

Edited on 12/4/2010 12:06 PM

You can keep your rings, if I need more I would bowl else where. That isn't the point. You continue believing that the game has changed because everyone has gotten better and technology is a small part of it. Let there be 900s in every state as the new high series. I don't care. You miss the point more then ever for every sport you put out there. Team, individual, and ect.
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Be good, or be good at it.

resbuzz · « **Reply #89 on:** December 04, 2010, 03:44:54 PM »

For those who think bowling is easy try sport bowling, you may enjoy it. I average 210 on a regular shot, but can't get over the 300 hurdle, I have one that I shot in 85, I wish I could keep up with technology of bowing balls but don't have the money, not bowling good enough to win jackpots.
Currently used a Black Widow Nasty

Yanker · « **Reply #90 on:** December 06, 2010, 08:46:26 AM »

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. If mine sucks, so be it, but it's mine.

By some of the logic being posted on here, everyone should have an "honor" award, in fact, how about 1 for every finger? Where is the honor in that? Integrity, who needs it?

Last year, in our city tournament, singles was led by a 934(3 games). Last week in the league I bowl in, 90% of 220, a guys second game he shoots 329!

I guess I need to go practice more...oh wait, the best I can do is 300.

The incentive is to sand bag, I will quit before I ever do that.

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Chucky or Jason for Head Coach of the Cowboys 2011?

Author Topic: Has bowling "jumped the shark" (Read 6124 times)

Dogtown

Has bowling "jumped the shark"

KennedyMan

Re: Has bowling "jumped the shark"

KennedyMan

Re: Has bowling "jumped the shark"

Juggernaut

Re: Has bowling "jumped the shark"

KennedyMan

Re: Has bowling "jumped the shark"

Juggernaut

Re: Has bowling "jumped the shark"

BowlingWolf

Re: Has bowling "jumped the shark"

Easy10pins

Re: Has bowling "jumped the shark"

BowlingWolf

Re: Has bowling "jumped the shark"

kidlost2000

Re: Has bowling "jumped the shark"

Juggernaut

Re: Has bowling "jumped the shark"

BowlingWolf

Re: Has bowling "jumped the shark"

SteveAustin2808

Re: Has bowling "jumped the shark"

kidlost2000

Re: Has bowling "jumped the shark"

resbuzz

Re: Has bowling "jumped the shark"

Yanker

Re: Has bowling "jumped the shark"