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Author Topic: The Carry Contest?  (Read 2953 times)

trash heap

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The Carry Contest?
« on: November 28, 2003, 09:34:15 AM »
Ok! I am not sure if this is question can be answered simply or not but here goes. I read a lot of topics where this phrase will come up: "It just becomes a carrying contest!" What do you think that makes a person get better carry?

Is it the bowler's ability?

Is it the bowler's style (Cranker, Stroker, Tweener)?

Is it the bowler's ball selection?

Is it just luck sometimes?

Or is it something else?



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trash heap

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Re: The Carry Contest?
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2003, 08:14:28 PM »
Okay. Good points. I understand this concept when everything is right:
- Entry angle
- Clean off the hand release
- Correct speed at the pocket


Now take Two bowlers:

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Players  | 1  | 2  | 3  | 4  | 5  | 6  | 7  | 8  | 9  | 10   | Total |   
---------|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|------|-------|
Fred     | X  | X  | X  | X  | 9/ | 9/ | X  | X  | 9/ | 9/X  |  236  |
---------|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|------|-------|
Joe      | X  | X  | X  | X  | X  | X  | X  | 9- | X  | 8/7  |  244  |
---------|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|------|-------|

Fred is an accurate player. Seems to have the same release every ball. Hits solid pocket shots in all ten frames.

Joe not quite as accurate (where he places the ball). Ball on frames 2, 5, 7, and 9 go little wide but recovers for light pocket strikes. Joe is not penalized for his 4 inaccurate shots, however is rewarded with strikes that eventually give him the game.

Some would think Fred is the better bowler for accuracy and consistent release. Others would think Joe cause he was able to carry the light pocket hit.

Which answer do you think applies the most to Joe's better carry in regards to today's bowling?

A. Joe's has a Ball to give him area (Ball Technology).
B. The Oil Pattern allows for Joe's inaccurate shot.
C. Joe's ability to have an area. Joe knowing is style and able to place the ball in area where he will up his percentages of strikes.  

This is my opinion how most people would reply:

When talking about Tournaments, most will answer Ball Technology (A.)
When talking about Leagues, most will answer: Because of "The Wall" (B.)



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As I grow older, I pay less attention to what men say. I just watch what they do.
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trash heap

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Re: The Carry Contest?
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2003, 08:16:35 PM »
#*@^! I thought those frames would have lined up!
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T-GOD

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Re: The Carry Contest?
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2003, 12:12:23 AM »
TH, spaces don't count, that's why they don't line up.
quote:
As far as the phrase you refer to: "It just becomes a carrying contest", that just means the shot is easy enough that everyone can get to the pocket. The only real challenge is to carry.
That's right, and the one who bowls the best, will carry the best and win..!! =:^D
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MI 2 AZ

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Re: The Carry Contest?
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2003, 12:21:15 AM »
I think you can make the spaces but you have to use the InsertCode button (#7) to make it work.

 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Players  |  1 |  2 |  3 |  4 |  5 |  6 |  7 |  8 |  9 |  10  | Total | 
---------|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|------|-------|
Fred     |  X |  X |  X |  X | 9/ | 9/ |  X |  X | 9/ |  9/X |   236 |
---------|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|------|-------|
Joe      |  X |  X |  X |  X |  X |  X |  X | 9- |  X |  8/7 |   244 |
---------|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|------|-------|


If I did that right, it should show up somewhat like you intended.
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mumzie

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Re: The Carry Contest?
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2003, 11:26:14 AM »
well, lemme see.
Last I looked, they didn't hand out trophies for style points.  

the one with the highest score wins. Period. I have had lots and lots of nights like Fred's - where I hit the pocket, throwing good shots all night, but been beat by someone throwing light swishers, brooklyns, and the like.

BUT - I have also beaten lots of opponents by throwing light swishers, and seemingly carrying everything on the planet.

I guess it's pure luck that I
a. picked the ball that matched up best.
b. picked the hand position that matched up best.
c. picked the ball speed that matched up best.
Skill doesn't have anything to do with it.

Oh - and tell Fred the next time you see him that on today's wall shots, accuracy can kill - if you tighten up thinking about the next 10 pin, you're gonna leave one - for sure.
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T-GOD

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Re: The Carry Contest?
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2003, 04:30:45 PM »
MI 2, that looks great, nice job..!! =:^D
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MI 2 AZ

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Re: The Carry Contest?
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2003, 07:26:48 PM »
Thanks, T-god.  I just copied Trash Heap's info and then used the InsertCode button (which looks like # , seventh one from the left) and pasted it and added the spaces back into it.  Most of the work was already done by Trash Heap.
--------------------

I just want 2C was'zzub.
____________________________________

I am the SGT Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing!"
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Six decades of league bowling and still learning.

ABC/USBC Lifetime Member since Aug 1995.

trash heap

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Re: The Carry Contest?
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2003, 09:32:16 PM »
Great job MI 2. Mumzie I agree with you and good advice.
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Pinbuster

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Re: The Carry Contest?
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2003, 11:16:19 AM »
The problem with carry contests is that so much depends on when you don’t carry.

You can take a game where 10 strikes are thrown and all the spares made and come up with varying scores.

9-spare, 10 bagger, 9 fill gets you a 289.

9-spare, 9-spare, 10 bagger gets you a 279.

9-spare, strike, 9-spare, 9 bagger gets a 270.

Double, 9-spare, 9-spare, 8 bagger gets a 268.

Double, 9-spare, strike, 9-spare, 7 bagger gets a 259.

Double, 9-spare,  double, 9-spare, 6 bagger gets a 258.

All the shots can be equally well thrown but the position of the non-carry shots makes up to 31 pins difference in score.
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T-GOD

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Re: The Carry Contest?
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2003, 11:35:31 AM »
Pin, but, shouldn't the longer the string of X's = a higher score..? =:^D
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Pinbuster

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Re: The Carry Contest?
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2003, 11:38:31 AM »
Obviously it does.

But should the random chance of when you don’t happen to carry determine if you win or lose?
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janderson

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Re: The Carry Contest?
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2003, 11:47:07 AM »
Remember that we do not bowl in a perfect world.  Carry, or lack thereof, goes beyond the ball you throw, how you throw it, where it enters the pocket, and at what angle and at what speed or revs. Consider:

1. Pin Setters are not 100% accurate.  The pins are not in the same place every time.

2. The pins vary in weight and condition.  There are typically mixed/damage wood (pins) in every rack.

3. Holes (thumb, finger, or weight) in the ball may sometimes make initial contact with the pins.

4. Oil/conditioner can carry down onto the decks causing pins to slide across the deck instead of falling over (This is the only way I've seen someone leave the entire back row 7-8-9-10 ... a high hit that should have left the 4-7-9-10, but as the 2 wrapped around the 4, the 4 slid into the 8's place)

5. There are variances in the pit and the equipment in the pit.  Are newer or older curtains more likely to kick pins back onto the deck?  There are shallow and deep channels, the gutter area along side of the deck.  I believe ABC only stipulates minimum channel depth.

Once you're averaging 210+ (and to some extent 195+) carry plays a huge role in how you score.

To answer "who is better" in the situation proposed above is a matter of opinion except to the degree that - for this one game - Joe had a higher score.  However, consider this: Is Joe a better bowler if he was bowling with all brand-new 3.6 weight pins on a lane with shallow channels and no oil on the deck and Fred was bowling with all 3.8 weight pins on a lane with deep channels and tons of oil on the deck?
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mumzie

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Re: The Carry Contest?
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2003, 12:46:42 PM »
Well, all I can say is (teasing mode on...)
if you don't like to leave the corners, you have two choices:
1. don't hit the pocket every shot, or
2. bowl no-tap.
(teasing mode off)
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