Author Topic: The Good old Days - Bah Humbug! (Read 3194 times)

LuckyLefty · « **on:** November 16, 2003, 09:42:45 AM »

Or I could have cried for them it was so pitiful!

Stopped by a local center and watched some statewide bowling studs look like fools!!!!

Condition was supposed to be setup for Junior Golds, (I don't know I guess some tournament that has a tough condition).

As I walked up I noticed many scores near the 10th frame in the 110 to 130 area and many gutters being thrown as I walked up! Maybe 4 in two frames up and down 10 lanes.

REleases of all the players looked "Powerful". I could imagine many averaging near 220 on league type conditions.

My guess as to the pattern would have been a 1 to 1 slightly less than 2 to 1.

One great looking ball revving player said only 30 foot shot with lots of carrydown.

It looked like throw what you get. Swing it 12 to 10 and you hit

?, the 6 pin!

Throw 10 to 12 and you catch a piece of the head pin.

One thing I did notice is that most of these players were throwing 17 mph with good strong revs and getting nothing but skid. Saw one slow junior lady bowler throwing about 11 mph with about 4 revs and she had as much backend as anyone!

My observation! Several old timers watching were in near ecstasy! I think there have been a few orgasms!!!! (Not there kid bowling)
1."Why this is the way bowling is supposed to be!"
2."When I bowled this is what we played on!".
3."This will teach these young pups to be versatile like we were".
4."This is what scoring should be all about"

My answers to all these comments.
1. Bullsh.., it was pitiful one score over 200 in the whole time I was there
1 1/2 games.
2. Bullsh.., You never saw so much oil in your life, you just didn't have carry, it was easy to hit the pocket.
3. Half Bullsh...., there was a way to bowl better.
4. Definitely Bullsh.... Embarassing junior bowlers so they want to quit the game is no way to encourage the sport of bowling. Plain nasty and much tougher than things I have seen televised on the PBA. Or personally thrown on World team challenge shots or PBA proams(supposedly sport).

I believe that item 3 they will develop versatility is half right.
These players "A" game was a high speed high rev game(in general) which would create very high scores on a tapered league crown.

It appeared that a way to play this shot would be to throw very slowly while nearly maintaining revs! I've seen in many of the leagues or tournament where I've bowled when they've gone in to FTL mode (Flood the lefties") shots very similar to this. A 12 mph shot with near normal revs works great!

Except for a little gray hair I wish I could have slipped in and shown the juniors how this is done. A nice little 580 would have probably made me the winner by about 40 to 50 pins. Passing me off as a junior anymore, long gone!

The Good Old days Bah Humbug, was never this tricky!!!

REgards,

Luckylefty

pchee2 · « **Reply #1 on:** November 17, 2003, 01:27:19 AM »

Hey Lucky,

While you're at it let DogBones know that the good ole days are long gone, out with the old and in with the new! Those good ole days boys threw the ball like wimps. Just watched Steve Cook on TV and he throws the ball like a wimp. Saw John Buzzsaw Gant and he throws ball like a wimp too. People said that these guys threw monster balls but I didn't see it. Wimps! All of them....Wimps! Why is it that the old guys always glorify the old days as if they were better? I guess its holding onto memories. Reality check reality check. Good old days are gone. Get on the band wagon or get left behind!

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pchee2<~~~stroking the ball with MANLY revs and spraying the lanes for an average of a buck 62. This guy is full of STUFF!

Edited on 11/17/2003 3:22 AM

HamPster · « **Reply #2 on:** November 17, 2003, 02:42:32 AM »

Give me a White Dot and a pair of shoes, let's do this! I LOVE sport patterns though, there's nothing like the satisfaction of watching a perfect shot glide down the lane and turn right into the pocket. When you're proud of a 200, that's bowling. I don't, and have never liked walls. On a sport pattern, if you bowl well or win anything, you deserve it and have earned it. That can't always be said on a wall shot. I wasn't around in the 60's, but I'm all for it.
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The weekly signature series, by Hamster.

I was bowling one of the higher average scratch bowlers in league a month or so ago who bowls with average speed and maybe 5 revs from 1st arrow. On one shot, he left a 9 pin. Walking back, he frowned and said, "Nobody that throws a fag ball should leave that pin."

JOE FALCO · « **Reply #3 on:** November 17, 2003, 06:48:18 AM »

Honestly .. as much as I loved the GOOD OLD DAYS .. I'm glad for the changes! I KNOW I wouldn't be able to BOWL at this age under the OLD CONDITIONS .. with the new equipment/conditions I'm able to slow the speed down and SCORE .. in the GOOD OLD DAYS .. couldn't do THAT!
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O

LuvThatWhiteDot · « **Reply #4 on:** November 17, 2003, 07:59:15 AM »

quote:
Embarassing junior bowlers so they want to quit the game is no way to encourage the sport of bowling. Plain nasty and much tougher than things I have seen televised on the PBA. Or personally thrown on World team challenge shots or PBA proams(supposedly sport).

That's the same type of shot that's put out for the Junior Gold national tournament. A bowler that normally averaged 220 in league's FATHER was yelling at the tournament director that his kid could beat Walter Ray Williams at home and that the tournament shot wasn't 'fair.' Tell that to the kids who bowled halfway decent and won some scholarship money in the process.

Junior bowlers who want to improve and possibly go on to bowl in college would never quit if they were bowling on a significantly harder shot than they bowl on at home. If it were me I wouldn't want to be labeled a quitter or a one-house-wonder.

Tough tournament shots are the spice of life

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White Dot

Not another 10 pin!

MI 2 AZ · « **Reply #5 on:** November 17, 2003, 08:14:48 AM »

King,

You're living your good old days now.

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I am the SGT Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing!"

Jerry Weller · « **Reply #6 on:** November 17, 2003, 09:56:23 AM »

I have no doubt in my mind that the better bowlers today are much more knowledgable and better coached then they were in the "good old days". However I do think the old timers had to be more accurate than today's league shot requires.

I don't doubt that today's higher average bowler could create more area and outscore most the old timers with old time equipment on old time conditions after they got used to bowling on the shot.

However what made the good old days better to me is that the game itself was more challenging and got more respect from the general public.

Back in the day you had to have sufficient forward roll at the pocket to carry which precluded most people from throwing too big a hook. The lanes frequently had plenty of carrydown on them and people who spun shots with too much side roll got punished with splits you rarely see today - sour apples, 5,8,10s, etc.

Pinbuster · « **Reply #7 on:** November 17, 2003, 10:29:59 AM »

I disagree. Todayâ€™s players put back 40 years ago using that eraâ€™s lane condition, balls, etc would have to revert to the same style that was successful then or lose.

Styles are a product of there environment. We had crankers back then but they could not score on a consistent basis. The one style that scored best on a regular basis was stroking the ball.

Todayâ€™s balls and lane condition allow power players to generate the room to get them to the pocket and the power increases their carry percentage.

What Lucklefty saw was what happens when that room is taken away and you see the true accuracy of their delivery.

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #8 on:** November 17, 2003, 10:38:26 AM »

Saw,

I'm in between. In age as I did bowl in the 60s and 70s.

Just for about a season each. My love was golf!

I don't remember it being hard at all!!!! Not one bit. Everywhere I bowled I could hit the pocket all day! It just didn't carry that well!

Now today if they give you a shot one can carry all day. But many days they make it where it is very hard to hit the pocket. And in my mind I'm one of the more accurate strike ball bowlers around. (Sparemaking call me skattershot).

The reminiscing over on your post I thought was great!! That's why I posted one little thing and said come over on this post where I can be a crab! You guys keep reminiscing!

As to being able to handle the tough shot I saw, (very unfair to the powerhouse bowler). As good as I could have handled it, my top choice of the people I know would have been Dicnic who can really throw the ball with decent revs with very soft speed if he wants. That man can handle some oil and throw with some touch!!!!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS I would have liked to have seen greybeard Dicnic in this Junior Gold tourney put a whuppin on some powerhouses!!!

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #9 on:** November 17, 2003, 11:12:29 AM »

I would out average what I'm shooting now too as I often encounter these FTL conditions.

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS loved the shot in the 60s and 70s!!! Cake! Carry = crap!

seadrive · « **Reply #10 on:** November 17, 2003, 12:06:21 PM »

quote:
And in my mind I'm one of the more accurate strike ball bowlers around. (Sparemaking call me skattershot).

I don't mean to pick on you Lucky, but I hear this all the time, and it makes me wonder.

How can someone say he's very accurate on strike shots, but is a terrible spare shooter. How is that possible? Either you can hit the board or you can't. Do you not know how to line up to make a spare, or are you unable to hit your mark on spares?

Just curious. Most of the local guys who tell me they are accurate on strike shots, I watch them, and their accuracy is indeed in their minds.

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seadrive
Cogito ergo bowl

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #11 on:** November 17, 2003, 12:45:39 PM »

I'm not lefthanded, any change of orientation on the lanes seems to trip me up a little.

With intensive practice I CAN spare well.

My strike game is proven over and over as I've won about 4 out of 10 no tap tournaments I've been in. Usually with some high average bowlers in them 220 to 230. The fewer spares I have to throw the finer and finer I get in the pocket.

As to real tournaments I've moved way up in the field on World Team challenge shot formats and in PBA tour pro ams contested on so called sport conditions.

Where I seem to lag is on league shots where carry is not maxed and where sparemaking is at a premium and I am not in a spare practice mode.

I usually need to practice "SPARES ONLY" for about 4 to 6 hours a week to get my sparemaking almost on par to my hit the pocket game. In these phases I've had nice periods of very high average results and scratch scoring in important tournaments to me and my wallet.

Oh by the way most of my misses I can't even see space between the ball and the pin.

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS I've been pinging pennies off boards for people for a few years at the arrows often to the amazement of onlookers who can't believe my pitiful league averages(no spare practice mode most of the time) in relation to the pennies flying all over creation when I get into these matches with other bowlers.
Still waiting for someone to beat me! What's even more impressive they say is "and that's for a leftie".

Of course I always respond to them, "Well not really, after all I'm righthanded!" "Just Imagine would I would do if I could still use my coordinated hand!"
PS to answer your question I definetly miss my mark on spare shots when in a "bad phase".

Edited on 11/17/2003 1:45 PM

janderson · « **Reply #12 on:** November 18, 2003, 12:42:23 AM »

Sometimes it helps to go to an extreme to demonstrate a point. You other "old timers" correct me if I'm wrong. You "young new guys" also correct me if I'm wrong.

25 years ago, your Joe-Blow, 1-league-per-week house bowler who took things seriously generally averaged around 170ish. With today's equipment, x-mas tree patterns and the house wall, that same bowler averages 190ish. Us "old timers" (I'm not that old, but I have been bowling 25 years) see this as a "bad" thing while the "young new guys" say, what's the problem?

As I've posted in other threads, I think both sides of the argument make a valid point. At the same time, I tend to agree with the points Brian Voss makes in his post at http://forum.pba.com/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=24;t=000063.

Let's consider the extreme now. Today, a 20* is no longer considered a "good" score as it was 25 years ago. It is slightly above average. What happens 50 years from now when you "young new guys" are in your 70's and (if scores/averages continue to progress at the same rate, linearly) the "typical" average is 230? A 240, which today is a "good" score, will be eh, slightly above average. How about 100 years from now when the "typical" average is 270 and 280 is eh, slightly above average?

Granted, even mathmatically, things can not progress linearly because of things like carry and inaccurate pin setters and so forth. However, if the trend continues, this is what we're headed towards.

Where's the fun in bowling when 280 is no longer much of a challenge? This is an extreme, but just take the leap of faith for a minute and consider what bowling would be like if the majority of people who bowled didn't struggle/work to shoot 280. How much would you enjoy the game?

If you can truly imagine that scenario and truly imagine how much it would suck, you would have an inkling of how us "old timers" feel about the world today where the majority of people (remember who I'm referring to, see top of this post) don't struggle/work to shoot 210.
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Questions? Drop me a line: haestas-(at)-yahoo.com

janderson · « **Reply #13 on:** November 18, 2003, 12:52:13 AM »

PS - Bowlers 25 years ago threw "wimpy" balls not because they couldn't generate a ton of speed and revs, but because it was counter-productive to do so. Lane conditions and equipment favored those with the talent to be accurate (within a board or two) and its difficult (not impossible) to be accurate at 20mph and 18revs. You had to hit what you were looking at or you didn't score.

Pchee - You've never seen Steve Cook throw the ball in person. I suppose Mark Roth also threw a wimpy ball?

Reality Check? Yeah, with today's equipment, the house wall, and the x-mas tree pattern, who needs to hit a board or maybe two when you have eight to ten boards play? Your better bowlers today hit that board or two while guys on the same pair just make sure they're within that 8-10 boards of "give". The sad thing is, both bowlers score the same.

As for the tournament originally mentioned - if you can't hit your mark, you don't deserve to score. Go home. If the game is only about revs and speed, why not just throw the ball into a machine that will measure revs and speed, why bother with a lane, pins, etc?

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Questions? Drop me a line: haestas-(at)-yahoo.com

Edited on 11/18/2003 1:50 AM

pchee2 · « **Reply #14 on:** November 18, 2003, 02:44:26 AM »

ummmmm, yes I've seen cook in person. He lives in Sac, owns a bowling supply company, only 1.5 hours from me. Seen him bowl alot. Still nothing compared to today's power players. Maybe its age. If so, he's probably one of the people that talk about the good ole days just like people here. When people talk about the good ole days its a sign that their best days have long passed.

Out with the old, in with the new!

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pchee2<~~~stroking the ball with MANLY revs and spraying the lanes for an average of a buck 62. This guy is full of STUFF!

Author Topic: The Good old Days - Bah Humbug! (Read 3194 times)

LuckyLefty

The Good old Days - Bah Humbug!

pchee2

Re: The Good old Days - Bah Humbug!

HamPster

Re: The Good old Days - Bah Humbug!

JOE FALCO

Re: The Good old Days - Bah Humbug!

LuvThatWhiteDot

Re: The Good old Days - Bah Humbug!

MI 2 AZ

Re: The Good old Days - Bah Humbug!

Jerry Weller

Re: The Good old Days - Bah Humbug!

Pinbuster

Re: The Good old Days - Bah Humbug!

LuckyLefty

Re: The Good old Days - Bah Humbug!

LuckyLefty

Re: The Good old Days - Bah Humbug!

seadrive

Re: The Good old Days - Bah Humbug!

LuckyLefty

Re: The Good old Days - Bah Humbug!

janderson

Re: The Good old Days - Bah Humbug!

janderson

Re: The Good old Days - Bah Humbug!

pchee2

Re: The Good old Days - Bah Humbug!