Author Topic: The Joys of Handicap..... (Read 7886 times)

Steven · « **on:** October 20, 2003, 09:50:36 PM »

I bowled in a mixed doubles handicap tournament this last weekend. Handicap was 100% of the difference between book average and 220. That means a 170 average bowler was given 50 pins per game out of the gate. With my 220 entering book, I of course got a big fat zero.

The winning team had a female 170 bowler who averaged 220 over 8 games. Maybe it was a legitimate streak, but the odds say not. However, assuming the scores were legit, I would have had to average 270 to keep pace, which was unrealistic. Again, assuming her average was real, it's much easier for a 170 average bowler to go 220 than it is for a 220 bowler to maintain 270.

The point is to illustrate the basic unfairness of 100% handicap (or even 90% handicap) formats. Because it's harder to score more as you move up the chain, handicap needs to be in the 80% range to ensure some semblance of fairness.

Anyway, I did the tournament purely for fun and for the opportunity to bowl with a senior friend, so I wasn't overly disappointed. However, the outcome was predictable.

Some food for thought the next time you enter a similar format.

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"Advertisers -- you too can have access to this prime demographic"

card79 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 21, 2003, 01:13:45 PM »

I agree completely and my average isn't that high. I got beat in match play in a tournament a few weeks back. My 180 from last year and his 108 from last year. 90% of 200. I get 18 he 82. He shoots 193. I shoot 221. I am still 41 pins over my average really good for me. And get thumped by quite a bit. I guess you know that going in though and you have to decide is this worth it to me or not. I had fun continued to gain experience and quite frankly was more competitive than I would have been in a scratch tourney.

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I don't really play cards and I am not 79, but it fits together somehow.

T-GOD · « **Reply #2 on:** October 21, 2003, 01:25:57 PM »

Handicaps are only true when you're bowling in the same house as the average you're using, for the most part. Also, you should be using this years average if it's 10 pins higher than last years. =:^D

The Hose · « **Reply #3 on:** October 21, 2003, 03:44:55 PM »

Card, I wouldn't want to bowl you. You shoot 221 and get 18 sticks? I'd have to shoot 240 to win? The shot better be pretty easy and the carry good for me to do that even though I carry a 229 average.

Steven, you said it best. It's much harder to shoot 250's to 270's then it is for a 180 bowler to shoot 210.

I was asked to bowl in a handicap tournament and turned it down because of the scores every year. A couple of years ago it took 889 to win Singles! I've subbed in the tournament for brackets the last couple of years and have averaged about 240 and never won a penny. Thanks, but No Thanks.

I bowled a handicap tournament last week because it was in my own center and my partner and I shot 1425 scratch in Doubles. We hope it will make us our entry back.
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CLIQUE MEMBER

card79 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 21, 2003, 03:48:06 PM »

Hose I admit I have an advantage. In my first year of bowling I averaged 166. Then last year I averaged 180. Now I am averaging 190 and 192 in my two leagues. I always make it a point to let the tournament director know of the big changes in my averag due to the short time in bowling and let them make the decision.

If they choose not to rerate me I will take it. I figure it is the benefits of being new into bowling and working very hard at it everyweek.
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I don't really play cards and I am not 79, but it fits together somehow.

Steven · « **Reply #5 on:** October 22, 2003, 12:21:40 PM »

quote:
Steven, you said it best. It's much harder to shoot 250's to 270's then it is for a 180 bowler to shoot 210.

Hose, this should be fundamental to the whole concept of determining what should be "fair" handicap. Why are you one of the few on the forum who gets this?

So my next question is the following: If it's true that it's harder for a higher average bowler to shoot +30 to +50 than it is for a lower average bowler to do the same, why does the ABC keep pimping the notion that 100% handicap (or higher) is the fairest system?

There are only two possible answers. (1), they are totally inept and don't understand, or (2), they know that the majority of ABC bowlers are in the lower average category, and it's in their best interest to pander to the greed of this group.

While the ABC may be partially inept

, I tend to believe (2) is the correct answer. Unfortunately, the ABC has repeatedly shown that it's more interested in keeping it's shrinking base that doing the right things. If I'm wrong on this, I'd like some input.
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"Advertisers -- you too can have access to this prime demographic"

Edited on 10/22/2003 12:44 PM

Pinbuster · « **Reply #6 on:** October 22, 2003, 12:38:32 PM »

The difference comes in the format.

Leagues are long term. Almost without exception with less than 100% handicap one the top 3 teams in average will win a league. The ABC is saying that for the lowest average team to have a change to win the league they would need about 105% handicap. That being said Iâ€™m not really in favor of that but my experience has borne out what the ABC says. Someone will cite how a team of new bowlers comes in improves and wins the second half and the whole league but I personally have only seen that one time in my 40 years of bowling.

In a sprint like a 3 game event in a tournament the handicap bowler always has the advantage. I believe even if you lowered it to 2/3 (67%) you would almost always see a handicap bowler win. I could even vary the handicap by event. The odds of a whole team of high handicappers getting hot is lower so to be fair there handicap maybe around 80%, with doubles around 67% and singles might only be 50%. But if you are going to do this then none of the entry money for the handicap side of these events should go to any scratch payout. Entry into the scratch portion would have to be voluntary and optional.

card79 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 22, 2003, 12:56:26 PM »

Steven hit it. Greed to an extent. Come on. The if they don't try to hang onto the bowlers who either one are new or two not interested enough in it to get better what will they have? They will have the people who would have been there anyway. Look at the wall shot. I can show you tons of guys who will drive to columbus to get a huge wall to bowl on rather than bowl locally with a little more challenging shot. They know that scratch bowlers will be there to bowl no matter what. They figure shoot we need to get the less interested winning so they will want to stay.
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I don't really play cards and I am not 79, but it fits together somehow.

JOE FALCO · « **Reply #8 on:** October 22, 2003, 01:01:45 PM »

Have to throw my two cents in.

The HANDICAP percentage favors the bowler who AVERAGES at or ABOVE the cutoff. The PERCENTAGE is irrelevant!

HANDICAPS are FAIR (other then the case above) with the exception of the ENTERING AVERAGE. There are bowlers that purposely keep their average down (SANDBAGGERS) for tournament purposes. There is NO WAY that a bowler can AVERAGE 170 then average 220 in a TOURNAMENT .. the tournament DIRECTOR should have INVESTIGATED the bowler. Either CHECK out their CURRENT LEAGUE or the LAST TWO years BOOK average. It is feasible that the 170 bowler could hit 220 in one or two games but to average it for EIGHT GAMES is a situation that should be LOOKED AT by SOMEONE!

I prefer the HANDICAP tournaments (I average 200) but due to the ENTERING AVERAGE situation ... I have been staying clear of most of the TOURNAMENTS.

There has to be a BETTER WAY to get HONEST ENTERING AVERAGES!
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O

Pinbuster · « **Reply #9 on:** October 22, 2003, 01:21:59 PM »

Ragâ€™s â€“ Iâ€™m not arguing the difficulty of increasing scores. I free admit that shooting 20 over a 220 average is harder than 20 over 150. That really goes without saying. But if you were only giving 50% handicap in a singles situation they would have to shoot 185 just catch up if you shot average. After that the difficultly level maybe approximately equal.

s1nger1 · « **Reply #10 on:** October 22, 2003, 02:38:23 PM »

As long as there is money to be won you will always have sandbaggers. It's sad 3400 in a team event your in the top 5. We went to a touney in FL and it took 3600 to place in the top ten. One reason why I know longer bowl the BR in La formly the baskin and robins. My friend recently shot 250 and 260 and lost to a 120 average female that shot 183 for the tourney over 21 games.

JOE FALCO · « **Reply #11 on:** October 22, 2003, 04:00:24 PM »

DISCOUNTING SANDBAGGERS .. Handicaps are:
Using the example of a 220 bowler (thats what the POSTER is) and 220 being this cutoff:

180 AVERAGE at 100% gets 40 leaving him with 220 (180+40)
180 average at 75% gets 30 leaving him with 210 (180+30)

220 average at 100/50/80% gets 0 leaving him 220 (at 75% thats 10/game or 30 pins).

What you want to do is GIVE the game to the 220 bowler .. I say 100% is FAIR! (REMEMBER MY OPENING STATEMENT).

SAWBONES has an acceptable answer in my books .. the only problem is the PAY OUT would be reduced to NOTHING with groupings as defined unless you had a REALLY BIG FIELD!
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O

JOE FALCO · « **Reply #12 on:** October 22, 2003, 10:33:27 PM »

I don't believe that to be true .. a 220 bowler bowls 180 and 240 and averages out to 220 .. a 160 bowler bowls 140 and 180 and averages out to 160. Does a 220 bowler hit 250 .YES! .. does a 160 bowler hit 230 .. YES! .. but not CONSISTENTLY (as described by the originator of this post in his tournament!)

Should a HANDICAP Tourney be won by someone who shoots the most over his average? ... You tell me!
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O

Edited on 10/22/2003 10:46 PM

pchee2 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 23, 2003, 04:56:05 AM »

If she only averaged 220 for the tourney with a 170 her team would take last place up here in the bay. Why some of the better bowlers in this area average 170 and they can shoot 230 all day. Kind of funny when you see 170 bowlers entering all the scratch side pots and brackets and winning. In fact many of them are even in the 160s with a few in the 150s. Makes it hard for us true average bowlers to compete with them. But what is a man to do? Hardly any scratch leagues or tourney up here all the money is in handicap.

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pchee2<~~~stroking the ball with MANLY revs and spraying the lanes for an average of a buck 62. This guy is full of STUFF!

WAYouthBowler · « **Reply #14 on:** October 23, 2003, 05:17:01 AM »

How about a handicap that is 100% of 300?

...

Ok I'll shut up now

Author Topic: The Joys of Handicap..... (Read 7886 times)

Steven

The Joys of Handicap.....

card79

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T-GOD

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The Hose

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card79

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Steven

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Pinbuster

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card79

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JOE FALCO

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Pinbuster

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s1nger1

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JOE FALCO

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JOE FALCO

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pchee2

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WAYouthBowler

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