Author Topic: The price wars continue ... (Read 8520 times)

charlest · « **on:** February 09, 2012, 02:05:15 PM »

Just saw Buddies post the new Ebonite Pursuits for $169.95, joining the ranks of Lane#1 balls as the most expensive balls on the internet (excepting for Bowlers Paradise's Elite line at $249 which I assume virtually no one in their right mind buys).

Pretty soon BTV's Quantum $300 balls from the late1990s are going to look cheap.

And all in the midst of a depression! Fascinating!!

"None are so blind as those who will not see."

BowlingChat.net

Edited by charlest on 2/9/2012 at 11:08 PM

charlest · « **Reply #16 on:** February 10, 2012, 09:36:08 AM »

Xx 12 X 300 xX,

I sense you're an optimistic and compassionate person, but do you really believe that the minimum price setting was meant to help the brick and mortar pro shop? You want to believe that and, you know what? So do I, but reality is a far different scenario.

Corporations, be they private or public, have ONE concern and one concern only: their bottom line. If it helps or hinders anyone along the way, that is just "coincidental damage" or coincidental help. It makes no difference to them, as far as I have been able to see.

"None are so blind as those who will not see."

BowlingChat.net

Edited by charlest on 2/10/2012 at 10:37 AM

completebowler · « **Reply #17 on:** February 10, 2012, 09:55:56 AM »

The pricing does help shops. The frequency of releases does not. I am disappointed with EBI in that they said they were going to reign it in...especially on the high end stuff. But, since Oct 18....4 months...they have released 2 Taboos, Mission X, 811, Dark Encounter, and now these. The original Encounter was in September.

That said, smart shops are not paying $130-$140. Yes that's the range at wholesale, but every release usually comes with a promotional price that is much cheaper. Then we also have programs from all the major manufacturers that allow us to get inventory cheaper.

Most everything on my shelf is priced at MSRP. For top end that usually is $229.99...evrything included except removable thumb set-ups. From there, it is our philosophy to give discounts. League bowlers get 10%. Friends, teammates, frequent loyal customers get a deeper cut.

I've said it before...internet pricing is just coming back to where it always should have been. $169 is starting to get steep I agree, but previous pricing was in line with what should be acceptable imo.

ALL STAR BOWLING & TROPHY
LANGAN'S ALL STAR LANES
IBPSIA MEMBER
WALLED LAKE MI

All Star Bowling & Trophy

Xx 12 X 300 xX · « **Reply #18 on:** February 10, 2012, 10:10:53 AM »

Are you going to raise your prices when then $179 or $189 prices come out, and it costs you $150 to get a ball in? Your $229 out the door will not cut it anymore, you then have to raise your prices and hope people pay.

I do not see the logic in this economy to keep raising prices $10 to $15 every 3 or 4 months.

When balls were about $120 to get in, they were sold for $209.99. Now balls are almost $150 to get in and they still have to be sold for $209.99. There is no way in this economy in some areas you can get $230 to $250 for a bowling ball.

This is my gripe with the price fixing. The difference between the internet price and the pro shop price hasn't changed much at all. The difference now is all balls cost $20 to $30 more than they did before this price fixing.

It's smoke and mirrors now in my opinion.

Edited by Xx 12 X 300 xX on 2/10/2012 at 11:14 AM

JOE FALCO · « **Reply #19 on:** February 10, 2012, 10:13:57 AM »

The words echo in my ears .. "it's only $10" .. "everything is going up" , "old guys are just cheap" .. looks like I now have some company!

Xx 12 X 300 xX · « **Reply #20 on:** February 10, 2012, 10:18:40 AM »

Joe, some of the problem is because the ball companies didn't take a slow progressive step to raising prices. They just decided to up the ante right away. I think we all pretty much agree we expected a price change, within a x amount of range, but the range is quickly rising faster than expected.

Ebonite is the villain here. They want to be $10 to $15 higher than any of the other brands (excluding Lane #1 and some of the other smaller ones)

What has Ebonite done to really warrant this? Heck Storm balls are cheaper, and their performance are better, and they have a much better "super cover".

I'm starting to think Ebonite is simply about greed and talking out of both sides of their mouth to everyone.

Let's "Save Bowling" but produce so many bowling balls that it's impossible to even keep up with what is going on. Let's "Save Bowling" but we want to be able to produce more and more bowling balls, that in some peoples opinion are part of the problem that needs to be "Saved"

Edited by Xx 12 X 300 xX on 2/10/2012 at 11:37 AM

JOE FALCO · « **Reply #21 on:** February 10, 2012, 10:36:39 AM »

That's what they were doing right from the start! Looks like what Ebonite did to the On-Line shops they are now doing to the B/M guys .. putting it where it HURTS!

Xx 12 X 300 xX · « **Reply #22 on:** February 10, 2012, 10:40:49 AM »

The B/Ms can still get good deals at the introductory price, and at the prompt pay price but if your a B/M that needs a ball for a customer tomorrow and you don't have it in stock, your not getting a price break. It's going to cost as much as the on line places once you factor in the shipping costs.

The B/Ms that can buy in volume at the intro price, and can prompt pay can save money. The smaller pro shops that go from ball to ball, or only order 1 or 2 at the intro price end up spending $ too.

charlest · « **Reply #23 on:** February 10, 2012, 12:12:30 PM »

I wouldn't blame Ebonite alone. They're just keeping up with the Joneses.

Remember the human condition (or the American affliction): if it costs more, it must be better.

Storm started it with the Virtual Gravity and now, the Nano. These were/are 2 of the most popular balls of the 21st century. And STorm kept raising their prices more and more with each new release.

How, in all honesty,can the other manufacturers charge less than Storm and expect the gullible American public to buy their balls instead of Storm's???

Ebonite's pricing of the Pursuits is right up there in Marketing 101 and Psychology 101. Do you have any idea how people will buy them just because they are more expensive?

A LOT!!

Certainly not I nor Joe Falco, but a whole lot of people will.

"None are so blind as those who will not see."

BowlingChat.net

Edited by charlest on 2/10/2012 at 4:31 PM

completebowler · « **Reply #24 on:** February 10, 2012, 01:26:30 PM »

Well I would agree with you if your numbers were accurate but they are not. HP balls for me have gone up about $8-$12 in the last 5 years. It is only the internet prices that have seen this jump. Here is a ball from 3 years ago. Notice the MSRP? Difference is, that ball was selling for about $8-$10 more than I could get it for...around $129-$131.

Mission X is selling for $159.99 now. I can get it for $134.99. Prices for me have only gone up $5 in three years in this comparison. That is extremely reasonable in my book. Now if the Pursuit line comes out to me at $145 or so then Ebonite will most likely get an email from me. That said, I doubt very highly that it will. It will probably be $138 or so.

The prices have been static for most of the last decade. Top end has been near $229 for that long. Internet pricing has had some effect on this but you won't see huge spikes at your local shop. Maybe just less discounts. That was the goal of the manufacturers to begin with...to level the playing field.

Xx 12 X 300 xX wrote on 2/10/2012 11:10 AM:
Are you going to raise your prices when then $179 or $189 prices come out, and it costs you $150 to get a ball in? Your $229 out the door will not cut it anymore, you then have to raise your prices and hope people pay.

I do not see the logic in this economy to keep raising prices $10 to $15 every 3 or 4 months.

When balls were about $120 to get in, they were sold for $209.99. Now balls are almost $150 to get in and they still have to be sold for $209.99. There is no way in this economy in some areas you can get $230 to $250 for a bowling ball.

This is my gripe with the price fixing. The difference between the internet price and the pro shop price hasn't changed much at all. The difference now is all balls cost $20 to $30 more than they did before this price fixing.

It's smoke and mirrors now in my opinion.

Edited by Xx 12 X 300 xX on 2/10/2012 at 11:14 AM

ALL STAR BOWLING & TROPHY
LANGAN'S ALL STAR LANES
IBPSIA MEMBER
WALLED LAKE MI

All Star Bowling & Trophy

Strapper_Squared · « **Reply #25 on:** February 10, 2012, 01:45:51 PM »

I think they will let the sales speak for themselves... Personally, I would never pay in the $200 range for any ball... New release or not. There's just no value in it for me. A while back, I would not consider over $100 for any NIB. Now prices have increased to the point where I'm moved closed to the $125 to $130 range. As such my consumption has decreased by 1 to 2 balls per year. If/when prices continue to soar, I'll be back to the standard 1 to 2 balls a year. But if that does become the case, I have confidence than some manufacturer will see the opportunity and offer reasonably priced equipment.

S^2

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completebowler · « **Reply #26 on:** February 10, 2012, 01:56:28 PM »

They already do. The Burst line was top end performance at less than $100 wholesale. Reign/VR is available...plenty of hook in those 2. Cyclones/Gamebreakers/Gamechangers with the One cover still perform great.

The only balls effected really are the very top end, very newest releases. I can get Mission Dominations for $75 right now. If you came in my shop and wanted one of them I would sell it for between $150-$180. WTF is wrong with that ball??? 920T's closed out last year at $49...I bought a case of them. Drilled one for myself and sold the rest for $150 after I shot 299 second game out of the box. Great margin for me, great deal for customer, plenty of performance.

It isn't that the deals aren't available. Just that they aren't available if you want the very newest/latest/greatest. That's the norm in any market. Just think about consumer electronics.

Strapper_Squared wrote on 2/10/2012 2:45 PM:I think they will let the sales speak for themselves... Personally, I would never pay in the $200 range for any ball... New release or not. There's just no value in it for me. A while back, I would not consider over $100 for any NIB. Now prices have increased to the point where I'm moved closed to the $125 to $130 range. As such my consumption has decreased by 1 to 2 balls per year. If/when prices continue to soar, I'll be back to the standard 1 to 2 balls a year. But if that does become the case, I have confidence than some manufacturer will see the opportunity and offer reasonably priced equipment.

S^2

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ALL STAR BOWLING & TROPHY
LANGAN'S ALL STAR LANES
IBPSIA MEMBER
WALLED LAKE MI

All Star Bowling & Trophy

Juggernaut · « **Reply #27 on:** February 10, 2012, 02:54:21 PM »

Yeah Joe,

Weren't you and I the ones that got blasted out of the water for complaining, and told we didn't understand, when we complained that MAP pricing was just the beginning of the screw job the manufacturers were putting on us?

The ball manufacturers have flooded and drowned the market in useless product, that they have foisted on an un-informed public, that is following their lead in lemming-like lockstep.

I said it then, and I will say it again: PROSHOPS, GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEADS, BALL MANUFACTURERS DON'T CARE ABOUT YOU NOW, AND THEY NEVER HAVE!

JOE FALCO wrote on 2/10/2012 11:13 AM:
The words echo in my ears .. "it's only $10" .. "everything is going up" , "old guys are just cheap" .. looks like I now have some company!

_______________________________________________________________________
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein
_______________________________________________________________________

mainzer · « **Reply #28 on:** February 10, 2012, 04:38:30 PM »

And after you spend that amount of money on the ball then pay to drill it. It will only hook for about 20-50 games then EBI will have a new ball (the same at the old one that just died on you) that you can pay way to much money for.

Don't fall into the trap!!

MainzerPower

Perfect Approach Pro Shop · « **Reply #29 on:** February 10, 2012, 06:19:48 PM »

A lot of good info posted so far. Have to agree as a Pro Shoo owner I have not seen the huge increase that I have paid for balls. It is about time these ball manufactures start putting pressure on the online sites. Pretty sad when a bowler not in the industry can buy a ball shipped to his door cheaper than a pro shop gets it for. Then we raise drilling to compensate so we can pay rent, wages, ect ... and people gripe about that.
Have to agree with the overreleasing of balls thought. Seems this years everytime Columbia would release a ball I would get literature a week prior to release date on a new release that they were producing. Hell why do I want the Ransom Demand when the Encounter is coming out in 3 weeks. Why do I want the Encounter when the Omen is due to be released. Why do I want the Omen when the Dark Encounter is due out. And that leads to why most pro shops only have 1-2 balls on hand so they don't get stuck with old inventory.
I thought EBI was cutting back on mass releasing also. HOPE EBI READS THESE FORUMS. Huge reason why I Storm/Roto Grip are my primary stocked items as I can sell there products 2-4 months after released because they are not outdated and they seem to be more durable.

J. Helton
Perfect Approach Pro Shop

billdozer · « **Reply #30 on:** February 10, 2012, 08:30:56 PM »

I can agree with the storm/roto shelf life...for example if I saw a second dimension in a shop or an agent ball Id probably buy it in a heartbeat. Just wait for the virtual gravity nanos to get scarce, ppl will fight over those soon. the best thing about EBI for me as the consumer, is I know their seriously hyped up products, go on fire sale very quickly...Like right now...the vital energy which was supposed to be a "great release" just like the signals was...on buddiesproshop.com you can get the vital energy for $60 ...and signals for $99...as soon as more and more consumers realize this...there will be no point to have a pro shop with inventory. they need to charge a fee to the online sellers or something...but remember the companies gotta sell balls and if the online shops sell more why wouldnt you cater to them. its a nasty cycle and theres gotta be a way to fix it...and honestly if they help proshops, theyre going to lose sales online...Im starting to think no one wins this war....except the ball companies.

Perfect Approach Pro Shop wrote on 2/10/2012 7:19 PM:A lot of good info posted so far. Have to agree as a Pro Shoo owner I have not seen the huge increase that I have paid for balls. It is about time these ball manufactures start putting pressure on the online sites. Pretty sad when a bowler not in the industry can buy a ball shipped to his door cheaper than a pro shop gets it for. Then we raise drilling to compensate so we can pay rent, wages, ect ... and people gripe about that.
Have to agree with the overreleasing of balls thought. Seems this years everytime Columbia would release a ball I would get literature a week prior to release date on a new release that they were producing. Hell why do I want the Ransom Demand when the Encounter is coming out in 3 weeks. Why do I want the Encounter when the Omen is due to be released. Why do I want the Omen when the Dark Encounter is due out. And that leads to why most pro shops only have 1-2 balls on hand so they don't get stuck with old inventory.
I thought EBI was cutting back on mass releasing also. HOPE EBI READS THESE FORUMS. Huge reason why I Storm/Roto Grip are my primary stocked items as I can sell there products 2-4 months after released because they are not outdated and they seem to be more durable.

J. Helton
Perfect Approach Pro Shop

Don't throw strikes, throw BOLTS!

my arsenal..

http://s890.photobucket.com/albums/ac110/_billdozer/My%20Arsenal/

Author Topic: The price wars continue ... (Read 8520 times)

charlest

The price wars continue ...

charlest

Re: The price wars continue ...

completebowler

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Xx 12 X 300 xX

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JOE FALCO

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Xx 12 X 300 xX

Re: The price wars continue ...

JOE FALCO

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Xx 12 X 300 xX

Re: The price wars continue ...

charlest

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completebowler

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Strapper_Squared

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completebowler

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Juggernaut

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mainzer

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Perfect Approach Pro Shop

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billdozer

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