win a ball from Bowling.com

Author Topic: Is a 1 in 10 payoff too high?  (Read 1423 times)

The Hose

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 683
Is a 1 in 10 payoff too high?
« on: January 26, 2005, 08:49:31 AM »
There is a 10 gamer around here on SuperBowl Sunday. It will only draw about 25 or 30 max.  I was thinking of bowling until I saw the payoff of 1 in 10.  That means they are only paying 3 spots.  I'm not bowling right now so I think my chances are not that great to win or finish in the top 3.  They have a few house mouses that average 235+ that seem to be able to bowl there but they can't do anything outside of that house.

I need to get out and throw a few balls soon because of some tournaments I've committed to bowl.  I'm just not sure that I'm willing to invest 80 bucks with maybe nothing in return.

I did bowl this a year or so ago and averaged 237 for the 10 and was 4th but didn't cash.  I'm sure I'd have to bowl that good or better and just don't think my game is sharp enough to do that right now.

If you were in my shoes, would you bowl?  What would be a fair ratio for you to bowl a tournament like this?
--------------------
I can't help it, Hot Chicks Dig the Hose

 

MichiganBowling

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 616
Re: Is a 1 in 10 payoff too high?
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2005, 05:08:58 PM »
Personally, I would only bowl in a 1 in 10 tournament if it had really low lineage and entry fees.  Perhaps $25 entry with $5 coming out for lineage and no expenses.  $20 prize fund x 50 bowlers is $1000.  That could pay:

1st--$600
2nd--$200
3rd/4th--$80x2
5th--$40

For $25, that would be worth it.  I generally would rather have the tourney pay 1 in 2 spots with very little on top.  I'm all about making match play and competing.  I know 1 in 2 never happens, but maybe it should?
--------------------
Brian
MichiganBowling.com
http://www.MichiganBowling.com

Famous Last Words of a Pot Bowler--"Ok, but this is my last game!"
Brian
MichiganBowling.com
http://www.MichiganBowling.com

Famous Last Words of a Pot Bowler--"Ok, but this is my last game!"

MichiganBowling

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 616
Re: Is a 1 in 10 payoff too high?
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2005, 05:16:04 PM »
1 in 2...

$55 entry, $15 going to lineage and expenses with long format, maybe 5 game qualifying with 2-game total pinfall match play elimination for top 1 in 2.

$40 x 50 bowlers is $2000
1st--$350
2nd--$200
3rd--$130 x 2
5th--$100 x 4
9-16--$60 x 8
17-25--$40 x 9

That adds up to $2050, so you'd have to raise $50 from a 50/50 or something.  Hmmmmm, this has me thinking now.

In my $40 and $50 sport tournaments, I run a parallel pot for $20 that is just another prize fund.  It pays 1 in 4 just like the tourney and pays out according to final standings.  If you're not in, you can't win, so each spot drops down to the next guy/gal who's in.  Maybe a 1 in 2 ratio would work for the main tournament, and then run a 1 in 4 or 1 in 5 parallel pot?

Sorry Hose, if this is a hijack let me know, and I'll delete it and start it as a new topic.
--------------------
Brian
MichiganBowling.com
http://www.MichiganBowling.com

Famous Last Words of a Pot Bowler--"Ok, but this is my last game!"
Brian
MichiganBowling.com
http://www.MichiganBowling.com

Famous Last Words of a Pot Bowler--"Ok, but this is my last game!"

The Hose

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 683
Re: Is a 1 in 10 payoff too high?
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2005, 07:53:03 PM »
Not at all.  I'm thinking the same thing about the 1-10.  I'd rather pay 65 bucks and bowl good and get it some of it back, instead of having to average 250+ and hope I got a check.  

The last tournament they had, I made the mistake (joking) and invited Ritchie Allen to come down.  Ritchie hadn't been bowling very good and I knew that the show was pretty easy and it would give him some confidence.  Ritchie bowled good and won the tournament while I averaged 237 and didn't cash.

I'm wanting your input to see what you guys think about it so I can visit with the TD and let him know that most of the bowlers feel that it's out of line to do a 1 and 10 ratio.

I think I'll start the Super Bowl party early and miss this one.
--------------------
I can't help it, Hot Chicks Dig the Hose

Pinbuster

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4585
  • Former proshop worker
Re: Is a 1 in 10 payoff too high?
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2005, 06:27:42 AM »
You get a problem when you have a limited field size.

Everyone wants big prizes to make it worth while to bowl but the only way to do it is to limit the payout to very few places.

You lose bowlers because they don’t pay enough places but if you pay more places then you lose bowlers because winning pays so little.

1 in 10 seems high particularly if it is a shoot out. I wouldn’t go more than 1 in 8. The only answer would be to get a sponsor(s) that could pony up enough to get a bigger fund.

The Hose

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 683
Re: Is a 1 in 10 payoff too high?
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2005, 07:52:30 AM »
No guarantee, just 500.00 for first if they have 40 bowlers.  Therefore, it's more like paying 65.00 to maybe win 300-350, with third or the last cash getting maybe 80.  There will be brackets but I'd bet there would only be about 12 that would get in and since most of them would be my friends, I'd stay out to let them win the money.  

It's not about what I can win, it's about going and bowling well and it not costing me anything.  No, it's no fun averaging 237 and it costing me 100 for entry, food, and gas.
--------------------
I can't help it, Hot Chicks Dig the Hose

tekneek

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5657
Re: Is a 1 in 10 payoff too high?
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2005, 08:46:20 AM »
Hose, you being a lefty and all, I would think with you fluffing up the 5 you should cash. After all remember you just got back from the massage palace in Lebanon, you should be well rested, my money is on you!!!!!!!
Steve
Leading Edge Pro Shop
Radical Bowling Technologies Advisory Staff
brinkley2223@yahoo.com
512-755-2947

MichiganBowling

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 616
Re: Is a 1 in 10 payoff too high?
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2005, 10:35:58 AM »
1 in 10 is baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.

1 in 4 is gooooooooooooooood.
--------------------
Brian
MichiganBowling.com
http://www.MichiganBowling.com

Famous Last Words of a Pot Bowler--"Ok, but this is my last game!"
Brian
MichiganBowling.com
http://www.MichiganBowling.com

Famous Last Words of a Pot Bowler--"Ok, but this is my last game!"

Overhand

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1053
Re: Is a 1 in 10 payoff too high?
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2005, 11:09:35 AM »

I was surprised at the prize ratios for the ABT.  First was $4300 (lucky me) and second throug five was $400 to $150.  Whats up wit dat?


--------------------
It is by Caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion.  It is by the beans of Java that my thoughts acquire speed.  The hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.  It is by Caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion, douchebag.

Rick Wunder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1045
Re: Is a 1 in 10 payoff too high?
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2005, 12:03:19 PM »
Overhand,
I suspect you're not telling us everything with regard to the ABT prize payout for the top five.  I suspect there was a progressive pot involved, which bumped first place prize money.  Based on the numbers you have posted, I suspect that there were less than 100 entries, in which case the ABC (USBC) rule requiring second place money to be at least half of first place money would not be in effect for this event.  However, most ABT directors will use that rule as a guideline, even when their entries are below 100 for an event.  The progressive pot money is not figured in when determining prize fund ratios, since it is a separate pot that is paid to the winner, is he/she is in it.

ABT was paying 1 in 5, with full rounding.  For example, 96-100 entries would pay 20 places and 101-105 entries would pay 21.  The national organization now allows branches to pay as few as 1 in 6.  Some branches have gone to 1 in 6.  The Chicagoland North and South divisions, where I bowl, have elected to stay with 1 in 5, but now they half-adjust (round up or down).  E.g.  98-102 entries would pay 20 spots and 103-107 would pay 21.

Just to try to stay on topic, I agree with The Hose that 1 in 10 is not enough.  I would also skip the event and start partying.
--------------------
RW (THB)
RW (THB)

The Hose

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 683
Re: Is a 1 in 10 payoff too high?
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2005, 08:07:26 AM »
I just got a call from a friend that went down and bowled it.  How many showed up to bowl?7!  This cat drove about 50 miles and instead leaving, he bowled.  They only paid one place and not very much.  

The center had to shut down all open bowling because it was a 10 gamer and they only have 12 lanes.  Therefore, they lost a bunch of open bowler and what they could have made at the snack bar.

If they ask for my help, I'll give it and try to support them. Until then, they can continue to make their mistakes and wonder how come they can't draw anyone in to their tournaments.
--------------------
I can't help it, Hot Chicks Dig the Hose

NOTHUMB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 998
Re: Is a 1 in 10 payoff too high?
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2005, 01:18:58 AM »
The tourneys I bowl about an hour away are 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 ratios. The tourneys I skip in this area are 1 in 8 or worse...

And yet they wonder why I dont show up.
--------------------
Only Losers Feel Pressure
www.thetimekillers.com
Chris Green
Bowler ID# 2039-6328