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Author Topic: The State of the game.  (Read 1898 times)

Greens Pro Shop

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The State of the game.
« on: July 18, 2004, 07:17:50 PM »
All throughout the bowling world there are constantly debates about how the game is becoming "too easy" due to the softer lane conditons and mega balls of today.  Obviously the scoring pace is much higher these days than ever in the past..it's a vicious cycle...the balls keep getting stronger....the oils keep changing to accomodate the new technology and the scores keep rising.  If a center toughens up their shot it's financial suicide as a lage majority of bowlers will get pissed and just re-locate to the nearest "pie" house so they can get their 220 - 230 average back...if I had a dollar for everytime I heard a bowler say "they shouldn't have to throw a certain line" if the lanes weren't quite favroing their favorite line I'd be a rich man, the word adjust just doesn't seem to be in some folks vocabulary anymore.
   
Obviously for the reasons above the odds of seeing any major changes being impimented with lane conditions and equipment are slim to none.  The PBA tried an interesting angle a few years back with the use of the gold pins...the pins were heavier than standard pins but still had the double hollow voids in them thus making them almost as easy to knock down as the regulation pins, as a result that idea flopped.  Years back Bill Taylor had a pin he developed called the BT Shotmaker..If I remember correctly these pins had no hollow voids in them..as a result your shot had to be executed with much more precision and accuracy to get a desirable result...if you sprayed the ball off target and make a bad shot even if it does come flying back to the pocket you still have to have good angle to carry so those light splatter strikes and off hits WILL NOT carry, you just don't get the silly carry with then that you will with standard pins.  

Hollow voids in the pins basically raise their center of gravity and as a result make the pins a bit more top heavy and easier to knock over, going with a solid pin the center of gravity is lowered thus making the pin togher to knock over.  Seems to me if ABC made a change with the PINS rather than the lane conditions the manufacturers could still make their megaballs, the houses could still "wall up" their lanes, the bowlers could still throw their "pretty" hooks and the true BETTER bowlers would be the tops dogs again..not because of the ball in their hand but rather the skill they posess.  Sure it may not be a cure-all but it sure seems like it would be a major step in the right direction to re-establishing bowling as a sport that invloves skill as well as equipment.  Any thoughts or comments?

Edited on 7/19/2004 10:15 AM

 

srlunatic

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Re: The State of the game.
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2004, 10:23:28 AM »
Here is my two cents...

Handicap/Non Big Money League......Who really cares?? Wall them up!!! Tons of honor scores.....let people have fun and enjoy as that is how to get people out into league......should be easy..should be a blast....should encourage people to come out and learn our sport..

Big Money Leagues/Tourney's.......Now go with the Sport Shots....the tougher conditions..Twister pins and such.  Make accuracy count, make it important to be consistant, to know how to adjust both equipment and line..make shot making a premium......use PBA Patterns/Megabucks/World Cup/International Patterns.....

League...fun..

Tourney.....Competition...




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Greens Pro Shop

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Re: The State of the game.
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2004, 10:45:52 AM »
I've actually bowled on shotmakers once Jeffmop and nothing could be further from the truth than what you just said...of course a hook thrown with good accuracy and entry angle will carry as will a straighter "softer" shot with good angle..I guess what they really weed out is the shots that are totally off line and still carry..sure they may hit the pocket but the results often look like grandma teeth! LOL

anotherwindup

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Re: The State of the game.
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2004, 10:56:38 AM »
Now does it not hlod true that the better bowlers still usually win?
Reguardless of the shot?  

The elite bowlers, or the 10%, usually rise up and score better than the THB anyway.  

The thing that is irritating is when a "better" bowler has an off night and has to hear about it from the THB.
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charlest

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Re: The State of the game.
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2004, 11:06:46 AM »
There two other major factors besides the hollows in pins: pins bouncing out of the gutter and off the side walls.

These days most gutters are not at the minimum depth, which, I believe, is specified in the ABC regulations. They are more shallow, making it easier for pins to bounce out of the gutter. Hand in hand are the amazingly springy and bouncy side walls in most establishments.

These plus the pins increase carry ratios for non-pocket strikes to such a terrific extent that most new bowlers and many younger bowlers believe the strike pocket is whenever the ball hits the 1 pin and the 3 pin (or 2 pin).

I think, don't recall exactly, that gutter depth is in the regulations but the coefficient of restitution (just like bowling ball specifications) of side walls are not in there.

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DanH78

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Re: The State of the game.
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2004, 11:40:50 AM »
quote:

These plus the pins increase carry ratios for non-pocket strikes to such a terrific extent that most new bowlers and many younger bowlers believe the strike pocket is whenever the ball hits the 1 pin and the 3 pin (or 2 pin).


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I know guys bowling for over 30 years that believe this.  I used to trying explaining certain things like entry angle, roll out, etc that effect carry, but they wanted nothing to do with.  So now I just laugh to myself when they flip off the 2 pin becuase they barely touched the head pin.
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ksucat

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Re: The State of the game.
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2004, 01:38:57 PM »
Talk about increasing money for everyone but the bowling alleys.  Ball return repair would rise exponentially due to all the "taps" that result in swift kicks.  Pro shops would be going nuts because everyone would have to own the biggest hitting new monster ball out (even worse than now).  Also there would be a few balls lost due to the drop in the river or roll through the parking lot after another bad set.  Holes in the bathroom walls, graffiti, spills, etc would have to be offset by increased beer sales.  These would be temporary until enough of these poor sports leave the game.  Maybe the few that we end up with could build a stronger base to grow from.

I have no experience with the mag pins, only the gold pins a few years ago that were a little heavier.  I actually felt like I carried better on these.  Still had scouts, but tripped a few more 4 pins.

Bob, I would also like to see a crown pattern like you describe.  Still easy to hit the pocket on these without quite as bad of transition that the wet/dry gives.

Want to lower scores, you don't have to make the shot impossible, just make the carry more difficult.  Lower the flat gutters, get rid of the rock hard rubber-like pin decks and kick boards, remove the void in the pins.  Bring back the "dungeons"!!  I loved watching fudgeknucklers leave 5-7-10's on light pocket hits.  This won't give the crankers a decided advantage over the straight players.  All players will be forced to develop heavy, strong ball roll or suffer.

MichiganBowling

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Re: The State of the game.
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2004, 04:08:19 AM »
Stormlefty, your numbers are enormously misleading!!!

First off, I want to say that I totally agree that changing the pins and flatgutters are probably the better way to go.  Although sport bowling may be the "choice" we can offer now without cutting our throats.  But I'm not sold that we would be cutting our throats either...

Back to Stormlefty.  Of that 50 million people that bowl once, how many have any clue at all what sport bowling is or what it means?  Of that 50 million, how many have the mentality engrained in their heads that "the shot sucks" if their scores aren't as good as last time they bowled?  Of that 50 million bowlers, how many have been educated about the very things we are talking about here?  Of that 50 million bowlers, how many would notice any change at all if the flat gutters were lowered and non-voided pins were implemented, and/or a sport shot was put out on the lanes?

I think you get my point!  I dare say 45 million people would not care or even notice any difference if we were to make the changes described in this post.  Where are our league bowlers coming from?  They are being recruited from junior leagues and from yes you guessed it, recreational bowling!

Bowling as an industry has done a half arsed job of presenting the facts to people.  This is a HUGE opportunity for our sport!!!  What if we could make the facts described in this post, common knowledge to all bowlers.  Can you even imagine how many bowlers might choose the tougher conditions once they understand the real history behind our sport and how things got the way they are today?

Here's a little story for you.  I am bowling a sport shot league currently.  We have 8 doubles teams.  2 of the teams, young couples, have NEVER bowled in a league prior to this.  When the counter person asked them if they knew what a sport shot was, both teams said yes.  When the counter person asked them if they were sure they wanted to bowl in the league (why would you ask that???), both couples said basically the same thing--"Yes.  We figure if we bowl our first league on a sport shot, then it'll make us better bowlers".

I was there, and I heard it with my own ears!  Non-competitive bowlers (the huge majority of that 50 million you were talking about) do not think like we do, and they do not think like any of the "good" bowlers who complain when the shot isn't walled up.  They simply don't know any better!  

So do I think we should just ban voided pins and force centers to adhere to flatgutter specifications this season or next?  I'm beginning to re-evaluate my answer to that question and am not sure exactly where I stand anymore.  (I used to think it would be ridiculous to propose such a thing)
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Edited on 7/20/2004 4:14 AM
Brian
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MichiganBowling

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Re: The State of the game.
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2004, 04:52:59 PM »
Storm, I too appreciate your posts and responses.  I see the point that you are making.

But what I am trying to show is that while less than 5% of bowlers may care about scoring issues and the true sport that bowling could become, we are still here!  Just because the other 95% of bowlers are uneducated as to what bowling once was and could become doesn't mean that things should just continue as is.  And why do you think that the ball is necessarily in ABC's court?  Or USBC's court, or whoever?

One thing you are deadly accurate about is the concept of the "risk" of change to proprietors.  Proprietors who are doing well today don't dare change a thing, and the proprietors that are slipping down to the point of no return just seem to be milking their business for all that they can.  Convincing proprietors that change is needed on the competitive end of bowling will be difficult, but it is certainly not impossible.

There are many things that I'm not good at, and sometimes bowling is one of them.  hahaha.  (Golf is certainly one of them)  But one thing that I am good at is being creative.  I feel that is my gift in life.  There is a solution that will allow proprietors to have their cake and eat it to, and I will find that solution!  If I don't find it, somebody else will before I can.  Never doubt those 2 statements, and please help us all to find that solution however you can.

People have been saying "this is impossible" and "that will never happen" for as long as people have had speech.  It amazes me that people still say such things today after all that has been "disproven" over the years.

One other thing here...

We (as bowling enthusiasts) have the opportunity to create a new trend in sports.  Tennis has the same problem with 140 mph serves making for a boring men's tennis match with aces being the norm.  Baseball has the same problems with steroids, juiced up baseballs, and corked bats.  Just the other day I saw a golf club that allows you to change the weights in the head of a driver.  If you want to play a slice, you simply organize the weights to allow for it to happen by swinging your normal swing.  Nearly every sport is struggling right now with integrity issues.  True ability and skill is taking a back seat to many other factors in nearly every sport.

Bowling as an idustry has an opportunity here to change all of that.  Now what if, just what if we are able to bring true integrity back to bowling and recreate the sport that bowling once was and can be again?  And what if we do that and bowling's popularity amongst the recreational is unchanged.  And what if we do that and competitive bowling goes in the only direction that it can at this point (up).  Is it possible?  YES!!!  It may be a difficult riddle to solve, but once solved, it will possibly be the greatest revelation the sports world has ever known to this point.  Other sports will follow our lead, and nothing will ever be the same again (in a good way of course).

I have been accused of being young and naive (29 now), but I've been on my journey for 3 years now, and the picture becomes more clear every day.  The answer to the riddle doesn't seem to abstract anymore.  For some reason, it seems like more of an opportunity than in impossibility to me!  Am I really just being naive here?
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Brian
MichiganBowling.com
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Famous Last Words of a Pot Bowler--"Ok, but this is my last game!"
Brian
MichiganBowling.com
http://www.MichiganBowling.com

Famous Last Words of a Pot Bowler--"Ok, but this is my last game!"

Walking E

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Re: The State of the game.
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2004, 05:23:40 PM »
quote:
Talk about increasing money for everyone but the bowling alleys.  Ball return repair would rise exponentially due to all the "taps" that result in swift kicks.  Pro shops would be going nuts because everyone would have to own the biggest hitting new monster ball out (even worse than now).  Also there would be a few balls lost due to the drop in the river or roll through the parking lot after another bad set.  Holes in the bathroom walls, graffiti, spills, etc would have to be offset by increased beer sales.  These would be temporary until enough of these poor sports leave the game.  Maybe the few that we end up with could build a stronger base to grow from.


And don't forget the extra staff that the center would need to hire to handle all of the "out-of-range" situations or respots due to pins staying up instead of going down due to a lower CG.

Oh wait -- never mind. We all know that the centers wouldn't hire additional staff for this!



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