Author Topic: The THS (Read 4808 times)

charlest · « **on:** December 13, 2010, 01:29:10 PM »

While I always suspected it was true in theory, I never, in my heart, believed it could be true to the degree I discovered today.

I'm talking about the potential for a house oil pattern, often called "The Great Wall of China", to hid the difference between a large range of balls and ball reactions. I went to one of the centers in which I bowl league to just throw a few games of practice and to start testing a new ball I got, called the Theory.

Now there's little doubt that the Theory is designed to handle some fairly heavy oil. I also brought 2 medium oil balls, one solid and one pearl, because I intended to change the type of line I have been playing in this house. I wanted to see how they'd do and how they'd compare to one another. The 4th strike I brought was one which handles some of the lightest oils, the Slingshot.

The Theory wasn't the best fit but I found a release and ball speed and line where I could strike and feel somewhat comfortable. The 2 medium oil balls were also fine. Of course I didn't play as deep with them as I did with the Theory. It had the stock surface. Lastly, came the Slingshot. I hadn't used it here in 2 months but I played much further outside and again it was easy to find a comfortable line to play.

An added benefit to this excursion was that I had to wait until they oiled the lanes for the day. It was about 1:00 PM or so.

Now, I don't know about the rest of you, but it would never occur to me to carry a set of balls that would handle as wide a range of oil amounts as the Theory to the Slingshot. When I loaded up all these balls at home, I expected to use either 2 or 3 of the mildest ones or the medium ones.

This whole scenario did not cross my mind until just now, 11:30 PM at night, about 10 hours later. That it even happened at all is shocking to me. I never thought I'd see so much potential to use such a range of balls on a single oil pattern.
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scotts33 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 14, 2010, 03:15:05 AM »

quote:
Now, I don't know about the rest of you, but it would never occur to me to carry a set of balls that would handle as wide a range of oil amounts as the Theory to the Slingshot. When I loaded up all these balls at home, I expected to use either 2 or 3 of the mildest ones or the medium ones.

This whole scenario did not cross my mind until just now, 11:30 PM at night, about 10 hours later. That it even happened at all is shocking to me. I never thought I'd see so much potential to use such a range of balls on a single oil pattern.

Jeff,

I'd agree on most walls, I can score well from anything to using a Track line-up of a 916AT, 920T, 715C, 505A to a Visionary line-up of a Spartan, Ogre Solid, Ogre Pearl, B/G Centaur. Your Slingshot being even weaker than my weakest ball the B/G. Just changing lane area....feet and trajectory will yield high scores. Normally stronger balls better carry for me.

Then again using the same equipment and throwing out the weaker balls on a USBC White condition in the same center also yields high scores playing straighter with an allowance of missing say 2-3 boards rather than 5 or more.

The bowling environment now is about match-ups with equipment, lane surface/topography, lane conditioner volume side to side as well as lengthwise taper and a lower amount of bowling skill (release). I don't see bowlers of today subtracting or adding axis rotation as much as in years past....generally they change balls faster. That's another subject.

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Scott

MrPerfect · « **Reply #2 on:** December 14, 2010, 08:13:39 AM »

Yeah, I pretty much expereince this all time, and in the end it really comes down to finding the best match up for that particular lane. I could bowl on the same pair and use one ball and average 220, but if you find the right ball you could average 250 without changing anything that resulted in the 220 average.

Bahshay · « **Reply #3 on:** December 14, 2010, 10:36:22 AM »

quote:
This year I've been doing three things with my game: simplifying it, simplifying it some more, and then making it more simple.

My team on my Tuesday night league has been making fun of me due to the fact that since I've bought it, I have only brought my Anaconda and a spare ball to league. Before I was bringing three or four balls every time and switching profusely. For a while there, it was a struggle to hit low 600 series. Since I've started using my Anaconda exclusively on THS shots, my low series has been a 640. My high series has been a 674. I've had one game under 200, and a grand total of 2 opens (missed a 7 pin after sticking on the approach and nearly eating some lane, and a blower 7-10.)

Taking the ball out of the question on THS has been a god-send. Now on sport shots, ball selection has and always will be very important. On my sport league on Wednesday, I've only used my Anaconda once. The ball is a beast on the wall, but it definitely needs friction, and I don't see enough (or I see too much.) If you're bowling on THS exclusively, I'm really trying to find the reason that anyone would use more than 1-2 balls.
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"This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time" -- Tyler Durden

Actually using more than 2 balls? Or bringing more than 2 balls?

My balls are in my car all the time, so i just bring the whole 4 ball roller in. On my freshshot, I really don't need to. I use a strike ball and a spare ball and thats it. On my second shift following a league of woman bowlers varying all skill levels, things become a bit trickier. Last week, the lanes were burned. This week, we hit carrydown instead. What I need certainly changes from week to week in that league, but once I figure out what I need in practice, I usually end up sticking with that ball throughout.

The Dreaded Durbin · « **Reply #4 on:** December 14, 2010, 10:48:25 AM »

If the center knows what they are doing, and can consistently put out the proper THS, multiple styles of play with multiple ball choices can score on it well. A good THS allows any style of player to play where they feel is their comfort zone with the correct ball for the shot.

THS is probably the most fair shot when it comes to allowing people to play where they "WANT TO PLAY" but it typically is a strike fest. You still need a little proper execution, but it's a strike fest none the lest because everybody is allowed to stand in their comfort zone and throw it like they want to. Aside from the forgiving nature of the THS, the THS allows the players to bowl anywhere on the lane that they feel is comfortable to them, that in and of itself is a major scoring factor.

What your seeing is a center that probably is starting to dial in a shot that will make all the types of bowlers happy, while increasing their profits and scoring.

robuster · « **Reply #5 on:** December 14, 2010, 11:27:00 AM »

At the end of the day,really,just how much different are the balls from one to another.I know what industry spouts(I've bought into it for years )but when I watch the house hacks use low end equipment vs high end I see very little adjustments being made.Example, I bought my son a Tornado last spring, a Vital Sign for this years xmas present.Both balls drilled the exact same,by the same guy, specks really close.There was, little difference in the reaction,the VS was quicker off the bp, a little more angular but for 120.00 more I did not see that big a improvement from one ball to the other.This has led me to wonder, are all balls created equal for us mere mortals.That drillings,cover stock prep and etc,are all that is needed.Why pay 200. for a ball when the same reaction can be had for one at 50.00 with very little work. Buying a ball spinner some pads,polish looks to me to be a better investment then a trunk load of balls.
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Live free or die trying.

Dan Belcher · « **Reply #6 on:** December 14, 2010, 11:38:41 AM »

quote:
At the end of the day,really,just how much different are the balls from one to another.I know what industry spouts(I've bought into it for years )but when I watch the house hacks use low end equipment vs high end I see very little adjustments being made.Example, I bought my son a Tornado last spring, a Vital Sign for this years xmas present.Both balls drilled the exact same,by the same guy, specks really close.There was, little difference in the reaction,the VS was quicker off the bp, a little more angular but for 120.00 more I did not see that big a improvement from one ball to the other.This has led me to wonder, are all balls created equal for us mere mortals.That drillings,cover stock prep and etc,are all that is needed.Why pay 200. for a ball when the same reaction can be had for one at 50.00 with very little work. Buying a ball spinner some pads,polish looks to me to be a better investment then a trunk load of balls.
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Live free or die trying.

On a house shot, yeah, most balls roll kinda sorta the same. However, the way the ball reacts to mistakes and what kind of breakdown it creates and how it handles transitions can make or break your night. On a fresher shot with some volume, stronger coverstock equipment generally fares better for me during transition, and my carry percentage stays higher. Weaker coverstock stuff will work as well, but a small mistake left into the oil is a guaranteed corner pin or maybe even a blower 7-10 or 8-10 split. And I know that one or two extra strikes a game is the difference between a 230-240 game that wins no jackpot money versus a 279 game that wins a jackpot or two. So yeah, if the conditions call for a stronger ball to maximize my carry percentage and mistake room, it's totally worth the extra $120 for a high end ball if it means I win a few jackpots with it.

Also, try bowling on a flatter oil pattern with more volume and be amazed at the difference. I'm a lower rev guy so most of the time I don't see huge differences in total hook when I change balls, mostly just reaction shape. However, I tried this a few days ago on a freshly oiled USBC Open pattern on AMF HPLs: there was an EIGHT board difference between my Dimension and my Tropical Heat when thrown at the same surface, even with a stronger drilling on the Tropical Heat. The Dimension let me play an angle that created a ton more mistake room.

charlest · « **Reply #7 on:** December 14, 2010, 12:15:37 PM »

lorin-23 wrote:

quote:
If you're bowling on THS exclusively, I'm really trying to find the reason that anyone would use more than 1-2 balls.
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"This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time" -- Tyler Durden

Because many places will oil early like 9 AM to 12:00 and let open bowlers bowl until it's time for league. Or oil machines will not be maintained, or oil men may not be trained properly, or they may fill up the machine wrong or there may be something wrong with the machine. There are dozens of reasons and they all happen here in NJ. Not sure about other states.

In my Tuesday league Where I threw the above on fresh oil, we supposedly get freshly oiled lanes, yet there are extreme variations between lanes 3/4 our league starts and lanes 23/24 where we end. SO far, it has been rather regular that lanes 3-10 have the outsides almost burnt, sparking dry. While from lanes 13-24, the lanes have a more even coat of oil.

Now these are roughly 2 year old AMF HPL synthetics so there can't or shouldn't be that much variation from lane to lane. SO I'm guess there's a problem with the machine. The guy who oils says he does the same from 1 - 24.

Also this time of year, high school kids regularly bowl at every center and rare is the center who has time to re-oil. So we see lots of variation at many centers.

Those are some reasons we often need 3 or 4 strike balls.
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The Dreaded Durbin · « **Reply #8 on:** December 14, 2010, 12:54:00 PM »

Charlest is correct, its very typical in NJ for the center to oil in the morning and allow open play all day. That is just how they do things in NJ. Other parts of the country they kick open bowling off the lanes at 5pm and oil for league.

If the league is big enough, you see tons of transition in NJ and if its a 2nd shift league, good luck. You will see fresh, left over league and open play carry down depending on the size of the leagues.

Sometimes you will even see one lane of fresh, and another of plastic ball open play carry down.

Not everywhere do you get freshly done lanes for your league. Something that alot of people forget.

David Lee Yskes · « **Reply #9 on:** December 14, 2010, 02:38:37 PM »

Well the thing I've noticed from last year to this year is.....

Last year I bowled 2nd shift after a womens league and encounter'd alot of carry down. So I was able to play deeper and use stronger equipment...

This year I'm bowling on a thursday nite 6pm league... I've almost had to relearn how to bowl lol.... But I had a nice Epiphany two weeks ago when i got my Theory drilled up.. I had a week off thanks to Turkey Day, and decided to take an emmory board to my fingers to take the calluses off. Well bowling league comes about and i bowled 1 game of practice and my fingers were burning.

So league starts up and I had it in my head to just get the ball off my hand clean and with as little lift at the bottom as possible.... And BAM!!!! The ball got down the lane nice and still made a nice turn on the backend..

Last week was even better..

Well last nite I goto the bowling alley and I am watching some of the guys I usta bowl against, and one guy has a Hammer Jigsaw that he got last yr, and he just cranks the crap outa the ball and as long as it's " around 10 " it's in the pocket... yet on a fresh shot in said house, that ball probably misses brooklyn...

and same goes for a few other guys in said league...

So having a couple different bowling balls is sometimes a good thing..

But I've also bowled in some places where you could use the same ball all day and just adjust your feet and your fine.....
So yea, sometimes
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TamerBowling · « **Reply #10 on:** December 14, 2010, 07:03:18 PM »

At one point I had a ball as aggressive as a Roto Grip Cell and as weak as a Storm Natural in my bag.
It all comes down to carry. You can just about get anything to the hole on a house shot if you are a little versatile. However, carry can be elusive. You can't outbowl a bad ball reaction.
Having the right ball in your hand can be the difference between scoring 200 and 220-230. It's only one or 2 balls that carried.

Now, I will say that you need to be proficient and really understand your equipment, or it really doesn't make sense since you don't want it to take 4 frames to figure out your new ball when you were trying to claw back 2 frames of carry...
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USBC Certified Level I

charlest · « **Reply #11 on:** December 15, 2010, 02:15:29 PM »

Quite a few of you are missing the whole point of this post, or of my intent when I wrote it. Maybe I put the details a little too deep into my essay. Sorry about that.

I was not intending to say that everyone, all the time should never have any problem playing the "house shot" using any ball in their arsenal.

Maybe many of you are very lucky to play on a perfect, undisturbed, just-oiled-before-you-bowl condition. That only happened to me here by the sheerest bit of luck. That was the only was I was able to make this observation.

I virtually never encounter that condition in any league I have ever bowled in, no matter what the manager or the oil man say had happened. If I see that 2x a year, that is a very high frequency.

Last night, one day after the above took place, in my league where we're supposed to get fresh, untouched oil, medium oil pearls were rolling out just past the arrows unless you had 18 or above mph ball speed. I had to use my Slingshot AND keep it inside of the 10 board all the way down. I was annoyed but still had 30 clean.

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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
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charlest · « **Reply #12 on:** December 15, 2010, 05:12:53 PM »

quote:
Do you only bowl second shift or weekend leagues? My week day first shift leagues were always just oiled before we started. My Sunday morning league is always fresh oil as we bowl Kegel Challenge Patterns only.
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Don't hold a Grudge, just have a nice day.

first shift after oiling.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
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charlest · « **Reply #13 on:** December 16, 2010, 07:37:32 AM »

quote:
Well, from this information and other posts, I can only surmise that you like bowling outside 8 board where most shots are naturally dry due to the pattern and are incapable of moving inside to find oil.
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Don't hold a Grudge, just have a nice day.

Then you'd surmise wrong. I am virtually never 10 at the arrows or outside. I usually start around the 3rd arrow ....
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
BowlingChat.net

charlest · « **Reply #14 on:** December 16, 2010, 09:13:07 AM »

quote:
And yet you can find no oil?! On fresh shot. Even a THS Christmas tree pattern or top hat pattern will have oil.

Sure it will, THEORETICALLY!!

quote:

I'm sorry, I have to call B.S. on this whole "I can't find oil anywhere, anytime" yarn. Sorry, you just haven't convinced me.
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Don't hold a Grudge, just have a nice day.

I don't give a crap whether I can convince or not. That was not the point of any of this. If you read one of my follow-ups here, you'll see that even though the house says it's fresh oil, it could have been applied at 1:30 in the afternoon with high schoolers and other open bowlers bowling before we start league OR they may actually have oiled at 5:30. Part of our problem here in NJ is you can't trust the non-bowling managers to tell you the truth.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
BowlingChat.net

Author Topic: The THS (Read 4808 times)

charlest

The THS

scotts33

Re: The THS

MrPerfect

Re: The THS

Bahshay

Re: The THS

The Dreaded Durbin

Re: The THS

robuster

Re: The THS

Dan Belcher

Re: The THS

charlest

Re: The THS

The Dreaded Durbin

Re: The THS

David Lee Yskes

Re: The THS

TamerBowling

Re: The THS

charlest

Re: The THS

charlest

Re: The THS

charlest

Re: The THS

charlest

Re: The THS