BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: Gizmo823 on February 10, 2014, 10:28:05 AM
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I think everybody's had those games or nights where everything is just working right, and whether you start really thinking about it or not, by even the 4th or 5th frame you know you've got a good possibility of getting them all. Then there are other nights where you feel just as good or better, but it's just not happening at the pins. Revzilla said it best about the matchups. Sometimes 300's just fall in your lap, and other times you've got to do some serious work. Yes, mine are all on house shots, but there are a few I really feel like I earned, and a few I'm almost embarassed about, then the rest are just kind of in the middle.
At the same time, the seemingly universal value that the majority of bowlers have given the number 300 is what everyone has the problem with. I know plenty of people who are insanely cocky about it, and view 300 as a sign they've arrived, despite any big 4 cavings or brooklyns it took to get them there. Those are the people nobody likes, those are the attitudes that people take issue with, and I think they combat that by being overaggressive with the "the game is too easy," argument. Or in other words, they fight a blanket value of a 300 with a blanket statement of all house shots are too easy.
Somebody said nobody averages 300 so it's not too easy, which is a pretty extreme statement. Averaging "perfection" wouldn't happen no matter how easy a game was, but the game being too easy should only in part be reflected by scores. There's still an awful lot that has to go right to get a 300 no matter how good you throw it. There are tons of physics involved, and it all has to work inside the same 12 frames at the right time. How many 300s would everyone have if they counted 12 strikes in a row ANYWHERE as a 300? Practice games? I've had practice 300s that were more difficult to get than some of my sanctioned ones.
At the same time, I think LGD probably has the best attitude of anybody about it. You can't control anybody else, you can't change their mind, or how they think. You know what's of value and what's not, and things have a way of evening out. Some little cocky bastard can plop one in and go around running his mouth, but if he does nothing else but donate in leagues and tournaments, what good is it? There was a kid here that shot one in high school practice a couple weeks ago, and boy he sure was quick on the trigger telling people how many he had now, but did it help him at all in their meet the following day? Not a bit, had a pretty mediocre day.
All in all, I've got a pretty different attitude about it now. It still won't quell the frustration of certain comments like, "Well now I've got a 300, I can put my name right up there with a bunch of other people, and I don't even practice or have all the fancy balls or anything," and "I don't need coaching, I have 300's, I know what I'm doing," and especially everybody who thinks that having 300s gives them a license to start coaching themselves. I get frustrated with the problems that type of thinking causes because I have to deal with them quite often. But at the end of the day, you can't "fix" everybody, you can't solve every problem, and there will still be ignorant people out there. Just have to do your best to wade through all of it and keep it from dragging you down.
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My opinion is the following:
As a 49 year old looking back when I was a 20 something youngster, what I wanted as a bowler was respect.
The bar for respect has always been 300/800.
If you meet fellow bowlers or casual bowlers, that was always the question you were asked? Have you ever bowled 300?
Even in today's easier conditions and better striking equipment, I believe it is still less than 5% of all sanctioned bowlers bowl a 300, and the 800 is even less.
So yes, pre 1990 or where ever you want to draw the line in the date sand, it was harder to become a member of that elite club (300/800), it is still the club that most bowlers strive to achieve.
Most kids or young adults think they are better at anything they are doing until they go up against true professionals on challenging conditions.
Sometimes I wonder if it is partly a side effect of the "everyone gets a trophy" mentality that this generation of children (now young adults) grew up in.
I remember being cocky and thinking I was so good until I moved to Wichita KS and spent 4 years there. The same time when a group of bowlers were going to Wichita St or recently graduated and were still living in the area...Chris Barnes, Pat Healey Jr, Chad & Billy Murphy and many other good bowlers who showed me I wasn't that good after all.
We all grow up. Some more slowly than others.
Kids become adults and most of them learn that cockiness leads to loneliness usually and eventually tone it down.
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Heck txbowler I may have bowled against you.
Primarily I bowled the Wednesday scratch league at Rose Bowl East.
I am always happy when someone gets their first particularly a long time bowler who might have given up.
And true some nights are just your night. I've seen guys throw Brooklyn's and back door strikes while shooting 300. Some have bragged they only had 3 Brooklyn's.
I had one summer where I matched up with the condition perfectly and did things I will never do again. It was easy to get to the hole and my carry percent had to be 90.
I haven't come close to that since and probably never will. And I sure don't think I'm as good as I scored that summer.
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this is my thoughts.... the value of a 300 has gone way down...
my first one came in feb 2001, during the city tournament in the team event.. and when i got up for my 10th frame, i had basically the whole squad of 20 teams watching me.. and when i got the 12th strike, it was like winning the Powerball lol.. and i was getting high fives and hugs and everything from the whole squad..
by the time i threw my 3rd one in 2003, it was like nice game... lol
I have a friend who threw his first one back in 73?? when he was like 17, and he said the whole center ( 50 lanes ) stopped to watch him bowl... when he got his 2nd, in 2003 in the same league as i got mine... besides our team, he didnt get much besides a nice game..
And jmo but when you have guys who without the help from the easy lanes would never sniff the chance of shooting a 300, getting them..... yes the value has dropped...
Plus when i hear of guys having 70+ 300's and then going for everything between 290 to 299.... yea the value has dropped..
a Facebook friend, for the last couple of years would always post up about one of her guy friends, everything he got a 300...and he's at # 140 or something...its like really??? if you are that good, why are you not out bowling on something a bit tougher...
I mean it use to be that Bob Learn Jr was Mr 300 because he had over 60 - 300's on the pba tour..... yet you have guys who have easily surpassed him, when BLjr has more talent in his pinky finger than these clowns......
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David,
I agree with your points. The top 1% of the bowlers now can now get multiple 300s and for them it's just another game.
But for each of them, I have a friend who has bowled for 40 years and averaged as high as 217 and he is still looking for his first.
Pinbuster: Bowled mainly at Northrock & West Acres. Back when I was there, Northrock was the big Wed scratch league. Craig & Jeff Jensen ran Rose Bowl West. I bowled several tourneys at rose bowl East.
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I know guys who are still hunting for that 300 game and some are cocky like a mofo even without it. Likewise, I know a guy who shot his first 300 2 or 3 yrs ago and continued to shoot 300's 3 times after that in a seson and a half. He's prolly shooting more 300 since I've been gone. I was there in his first, 3rd, and 4th and the look on those bowlers how still have not shot a 300 was priceless. He's not cocky, but rather a cool dude who still thinks he doesn't "belong."
300 is still a 300. It's the "average" that has changed. It seems like there's more 200 average bowlers nowadays (with less bowlers nation wide?) with less skill than those 200 bowlers of the 80's early 90's.
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I don't think this is a yes or no question. I think every individual answers that question for himself or herself. Now, have the reactions to 300 changed? In most cases, yes. When I was growing up, the whole center would stop and get behind the pair to watch someone shoot 300. Now, in most leagues, you don't even know it happened until they make an announcement or you hear a larger-than-average cheer. To me, that's sad. It's become so commonplace in many centers that it doesn't even cause people to take notice. Still, it doesn't mean it isn't special, especially to the guy or gal shooting it. That's what it's all about. One of the things I like the most is watching someone actually get excited about a bowling achievement. About a month ago, an older guy in my league shot the first 700 of his life, and he was totally geeked about it. I loved it! That's what I miss in bowling. I miss people actually getting excited about things.
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I don't think this is a yes or no question. I think every individual answers that question for himself or herself. Now, have the reactions to 300 changed? In most cases, yes. When I was growing up, the whole center would stop and get behind the pair to watch someone shoot 300. Now, in most leagues, you don't even know it happened until they make an announcement or you hear a larger-than-average cheer. To me, that's sad. It's become so commonplace in many centers that it doesn't even cause people to take notice. Still, it doesn't mean it isn't special, especially to the guy or gal shooting it. That's what it's all about. One of the things I like the most is watching someone actually get excited about a bowling achievement. About a month ago, an older guy in my league shot the first 700 of his life, and he was totally geeked about it. I loved it! That's what I miss in bowling. I miss people actually getting excited about things.
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Totally agree with what you said. It's all about the joy from the person who made the achievement. I kind of equate the reaction of others to how over time we began viewing education and graduation. For my parents, getting a high school diploma was a huge accomplishment with a lot of fanfare. And if they then went to college, that was just the icing on the cake. The times and the norms were just different based upon the conditions. However, today graduating high school is seen as nothing more than a prerequisite for going to college. It's one of those, "congrats that you graduated, now what" mentalities. I am sure that the person actually graduating feels a great sense of accomplishment, but in the eyes of others, its nothing more than a basic expectation.
Just my opinion.
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Has the value of a 4-minute mile gone down? Only to those athletes who have no problem running them, but nowadays most top shelf runners have no issue doing it.
Who cares?
It's all subjective, and if the bar moves higher as equipment, talent and knowledge increases (as it does in all sports) then a new bar must be set. In this case, 900, or just to beat the rest of the field.
I'm obviously not in the majority on this, but all this pants-wetting over the "special-ness" of a certain score is infantile.
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Has the value of a 4-minute mile gone down? Only to those athletes who have no problem running them, but nowadays most top shelf runners have no issue doing it.
Who cares?
It's all subjective, and if the bar moves higher as equipment, talent and knowledge increases (as it does in all sports) then a new bar must be set. In this case, 900, or just to beat the rest of the field.
I'm obviously not in the majority on this, but all this pants-wetting over the "special-ness" of a certain score is infantile.
I like this comparison. People have access to more resources and training guides than ever. You see more 14 year olds with good form than you did 30 years ago. Is that incorrect? Doubt it.
Although, a good pair of running shoes can take off 3 minutes, maybe even 5 :P
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I agree with Gene, that this is a question everyone must answer individually. The spectacle of watching a 300 has gone away, mainly because they do happen more often now. When I threw my first in 1986, it was one of those where the entire house was watching. Pretty intimidating for a 16 yr old. Now, you are lucky if the pairs next to you stop. But, that doesn't mean the value of them has gone down, at least not to me. I still see it as doing something pretty special. I have 28 300 games at this point in time. I have rolled them on house shots, in a collegiate tournament, in State and City tournaments. Each one to me is special. And now that I have gone a few years without one, I know the next one I get will be special too. Don't confuse the lack of the spectacle with a lack of being special.
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"Don't confuse the lack of the spectacle with a lack of being special."
Perfect! We had one shot about 5 weeks ago. Now the guy shooting it was a guy who has plenty. Did people stop and wait for him to get done before bowling. No. It wasn't necessary and he would have been taken aback. Now would we have stopped and watched somebody who doesn't have one? You betcha. The spectacle put on will match the amount of "special" the moment is. That will differ for different bowlers.
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I'm obviously not in the majority on this, but all this pants-wetting over the "special-ness" of a certain score is infantile.
It has nothing to do with the "special-ness" of the score, it has to do with the resulting attitudes. It's like buying a 16 year old a brand new Mustang. People are able to score much higher without really knowing what they're doing, but because it happened to them, all the sudden they're a pro, they're a coach, and they're an industry expert. I find that to be a problem. I do get the rest of your point though. Golf has adjusted the challenge to the increase in technology though . . College bball has extended the 3 point line a couple times, major league baseball still uses wooden bats, etc. Scratch golfing 30 years ago was par. What is it now? Par. What was scratch bowling 30 years ago? 200. Now? 220. I don't think in any sport you should be able to do very good unless you know what you're doing. Bowling is the only sport I can think of that requires no practice, just a bunch of area, a reactive ball, and speed and revs to be "perfect."
HOWEVER, note the ALL CAPS. I have no problem with where bowling is at . . I don't think recreational bowling should be brutally hard . . it's the perspectives and the attitudes though. A kid shoots 300 on a wide open house shot and all the sudden thinks he's Chris Barnes. Yeah, if he goes onto something tough he'll get a wake up call, but it's a rough wake up call because it's completely unexpected. Not only do you find out you aren't as good as you think you are, you find out you aren't even close. It's super deflating. If there was better education and better parity, more people could enjoy the game more. This site is a microcosm of bowling. It's a bunch of bitter pissy people that aren't happy for one reason or another. It's not even the scoring pace . . it's the lack of information and perspective and understanding.
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Actually at the professional level, golf had to make courses longer to maintain par around 72.
Before Augusta lengthened its course, Tiger set the record at 17 under PAR.
As golfers become stronger and clubs advancing technology allowed them to hit the ball farther than designers ever imagined, certain courses became obsolete.
Par 4's were reachable, etc...
The had a choice, either start thinking about changing the PAR score on certain holes thus making PAR 68 on courses that were previously 72, or make them harder by adding length to the holes. Golf chose the lengthen the holes.
In bowling, with the new technology of bowling balls, and houses choosing to put out easier league conditions (which is the standard most bowlers are measured against), the choice was to raising "bowling par" from 200 to 215-220 or make the lanes tougher (length the course in golf).
Bowling chose to raise par - and many were upset since now the maximum score is easier to achieve and comparisons of bowlers between generations are very difficult.
That pretty much sums it up :-)
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You're comparing golf at the highest level to league bowling.
I play in a men's club with about 300 members that has golf tournaments every weekend. The course isn't obsolete for any of us.
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Actually at the professional level, golf had to make courses longer to maintain par around 72.
Before Augusta lengthened its course, Tiger set the record at 17 under PAR.
As golfers become stronger and clubs advancing technology allowed them to hit the ball farther than designers ever imagined, certain courses became obsolete.
Par 4's were reachable, etc...
The had a choice, either start thinking about changing the PAR score on certain holes thus making PAR 68 on courses that were previously 72, or make them harder by adding length to the holes. Golf chose the lengthen the holes.
In bowling, with the new technology of bowling balls, and houses choosing to put out easier league conditions (which is the standard most bowlers are measured against), the choice was to raising "bowling par" from 200 to 215-220 or make the lanes tougher (length the course in golf).
Bowling chose to raise par - and many were upset since now the maximum score is easier to achieve and comparisons of bowlers between generations are very difficult.
That pretty much sums it up :-)
That's too funny! Do you even play golf??? Most duffers at your local course feel they absolutely "killed" a shot when they hit it 250 yards, fairway or not.
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Golf doesnt need to lengthen it's courses.... yes some have.. in Golf you can narrow the fairways, make the rough longer, greens faster and put the hole in crazy spots on the green.. and nobody thinks twice about it... Most golfers love the challenge of the sport !! Hence why golf has the separation between the hacks and the Pro's...
Obviously bowling could make Par 200 again but a lot of House Hacks would be extremely butthurt very fast...
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I don't care what anyone says, bowling a 300 game is still awesome. I bowled my first one in 1997 (with a urethane ball) during our Saturday morning youth league. The entire place stopped to watch when I got into the 10th frame. The thing I remember the most about it? The chest bump I got from my buddy after #12 that nearly knocked me over, the free small french fry the snack bar gave me, and the little old lady behind the counter that was so excited because she had never seen a 300 game before.
It took me 13 years to get my 2nd sanctioned 300. Do you think that game was special to me? ABOSLUTELY! Do you think I cared if people around me thought it was special? Absolutely NOT! Now I have 6 sanctioned 300 games. Comapred to a lot of people, that's not many, but compared to a lot of people, that's a lot. Each time I have a shot at it, it's not about what other people think, it's about proving to myself that I can over come the nerves and finish it out.
Bowling is the most elitist sport I have EVER been a part of, to the point where it's almost not fun anymore. I come on these boards and there is always somebody complaining about something. So a kid shot a 300 game and he's not a terribly good/consistent bowler. Who cares? So he wants to brag it up a little bit. Who cares? Let him or her have their moment. There is ALWAYS going to be someone bragging about their accomplishments, and there is always going to the guy that says, if it weren't for that darn 10 pin in frame 4 I would have shot a 300, not realizing how much different the pressure is when you actually get to the 10th frame, or heck even the 7th or 8th.
If you're truly a "super star" that nuts every single shot and feels they have the right to complain about everyone having a little bit of success, then use your skill and insight for something good. Help the kid that just shot 300 by crossing over 11 times. Give him pointers, show him some tricks. Do something USEFUL! You could always join the tour. Those guys like to complain about "hacks" too.
Remember, the cream ALWAYS rises. So little Timmy may have just shot 300, but it could be his only one, while you my friend, the super star thats nuts every single shot, never mis hits the ball on the bottom, and definitely only gets strikes by flushing the pocket and never on light hits or accidental tugs, will shoot many.
I understand that the game has changed, the conditions are softer and the balls are better and more forgiving, and yes it's easier to throw more strikes now than it was back in the early 1700's or whenever it is that people like to go back to when they say bowling was "harder", but 12 strikes in a game, is still 12 strikes in a game.
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So a kid shot a 300 game and he's not a terribly good/consistent bowler. Who cares? So he wants to brag it up a little bit. Who cares? Let him or her have their moment. If you're truly a "super star" that nuts every single shot and feels they have the right to complain about everyone having a little bit of success, then use your skill and insight for something good. Help the kid that just shot 300 by crossing over 11 times. Give him pointers, show him some tricks. Do something USEFUL! You could always join the tour.
Ah yes, but the problem is that the majority of these people become uncoachable. They shot 300, why do they need any help? Now if they don't succeed more, it's always something else, the ball, the lanes, etc., because they shot 300 which means they're good. They also think that licenses them to coach other people. I don't mind the bragging, or the inflated egos, those are the guys all the scratch bowlers grin about, because those are the guys that are easy picking. They aren't good enough to hang, but easy to goad into putting up money in a league or tournament, then it's really easy to get inside their head and pick them apart . . I just have a huge problem with the know it alls that make my job and so many others' jobs hard. I get sick of seeing the bowling center and mechanic get yelled at because somebody didn't shoot 600 that night. It's not Storm's fault, Vise's fault, or Dexter's fault either, but they'll get blamed for it. Very few will admit they were actually at fault for not bowling well.
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I didn't start bowling until I was 21. I think I had my first 300 when I was 31 and had a 2nd one later that season in the rolloff. Since then I've had one roughly every other year. I'm a house hack. Always have been and always will be. I don't have the time or the drive to be more than that.
Every 300 has been special to me for different reasons. If I ever have another one, it will be special too. The first one will always mean the most, but I don't do it often enough to take it for granted and I'm not good enough to know I'm going to have another one. I think age/maturity has something to do with the reaction. I think when you're younger, you feel like you'll be able to do it at will. When you're older when you get the first one, I think you appreciate how difficult it was to get there. Painting with a pretty broad brush there and I'm sure there are exceptions...
On a side note, I have never had a 291 - 299 game. I don't think I've ever had 290 either. I think most of that is luck, but I think growing up playing sports and being used to dealing with pressure has made the 10th frame easier for me than it might be for others. I've never felt the nerves. My first 300, the 11th ball hit a bit light and I got lucky. Instead of getting nervous, I became more relaxed because I figured if that carried, it was just meant to be and had a perfect 12th.
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"It's a bunch of bitter pissy people that aren't happy for one reason or another. It's not even the scoring pace . . it's the lack of information and perspective and understanding."
YOU GIZMO are the biggest bitter pissy person on this site.....
You say they become 'uncoachable" are you KIDDING me...Ok Ok it may happen to strictly league players, but any good player is going to seek coaching (want coaching) even the best players in the world still receive coaching.
I think you're stuck inside a bubble, now either you don't get out and see real tournament bowling (probably because you're too busy making videos that have been done by 100 other people) or you're just simply bored in life to make all of these posts that rip up people who ACTUALLY enjoy the game of bowling and still get excited about bowling a 300 or bowling their FIRST 300.
Ok Ok back the original topic....I've had (80) 300 games and I enjoy every single one of them, 300 is still perfectection (sure everyone gets a lucky break) but i've seen a hole in one that the ball rolled right up the flagstick and straight back down into the hole. LUCK is just part of the game and 300 is just a number, I don't see why you get so bent over it.
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The genie ain't going back in the bottle, so just accept what the game has become.
We are in the age of easy strikes and internet experts. When you're in the pro shop help those that wish to be helped and service the rest.
If you are going to be a league bowler then accept that bad bowlers are going to shoot good scores. If you want anything that still resembles integrity join the PBA while it still exists. I have yet to see someone "luck" into a 300 in a PBA tournament.
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Of course I'm bitter and pissy, something I love is being run into the ground . . wouldn't you be bitter and pissy?
Strictly league players . . which comprises about 95% of sanctioned bowling . . of course good players will ask for coaching and get coaching, they understand the need for it. Rick Benoit recently moved to Saudi Arabia, but he used to have people here all the time for coaching, all the Brunswick pros, the Columbian national team, Kelly Kulick, Chris Barnes, etc. But the house hack league bowler didn't need to hear all the "big fancy technical mumbo jumbo." We had the single best coach on the PLANET living here, and all anybody tried to do was get free equipment out of him.
I know about real tournament bowling . . it doesn't happen here, it doesn't happen anywhere within driving distance. I'm too busy being involved with stuff anyway to bowl anything if I DID have the opportunity. And I'm taking little trial videos with an iphone . . hurt me bad . .
You've got over 5 times as many 300s as I have, but I've repeated over and over again that I still enjoy getting them. Just because I don't feel like they mean much in the grand scheme of things doesn't mean they still aren't a lot of fun. Here it means getting a jacket or coat from the center, your name up on the honor score board, and your name in the paper. If you shoot 800 the paper even calls and gets an interview to print. I've got that 800 crystal trophy on the way and am pretty excited about it, it's one of the nicest awards they've handed out . . but it doesn't give me delusions of grandeur.
And I really don't think you read the OP if you think I'm getting bent about it. The scoring pace has caused a huge problem for the competitive side of the sport, I don't think there's any denying that. Say what you want about what's causing the decline of league play, what's caused the decline of viewers of the PBA? I didn't get to golf much last year, but I still like watching it on tv. I subscribe to USBCs youtube channel, watch all their coverage of ANYTHING, and I never miss a PBA telecast.
What you're basically saying is that it's completely ok to have house shots and big scores and an emphasis on recreational bowling, but that it's not ok for anybody to want competition or a greater challenge . .
"It's a bunch of bitter pissy people that aren't happy for one reason or another. It's not even the scoring pace . . it's the lack of information and perspective and understanding."
YOU GIZMO are the biggest bitter pissy person on this site.....
You say they become 'uncoachable" are you KIDDING me...Ok Ok it may happen to strictly league players, but any good player is going to seek coaching (want coaching) even the best players in the world still receive coaching.
I think you're stuck inside a bubble, now either you don't get out and see real tournament bowling (probably because you're too busy making videos that have been done by 100 other people) or you're just simply bored in life to make all of these posts that rip up people who ACTUALLY enjoy the game of bowling and still get excited about bowling a 300 or bowling their FIRST 300.
Ok Ok back the original topic....I've had (80) 300 games and I enjoy every single one of them, 300 is still perfectection (sure everyone gets a lucky break) but i've seen a hole in one that the ball rolled right up the flagstick and straight back down into the hole. LUCK is just part of the game and 300 is just a number, I don't see why you get so bent over it.
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I would have to disagree on the statement about poor to average bowlers shooting a 300 are "un-coachable". If anything I have seen just the polar opposite, especially from the guys in THS leagues. What I have seen speaks more to the individuals who are very good, or "PBA" quality bowlers.
I am in a couple of leagues this season where there are guys that average anywhere from 170 to 200. They enjoy bowling, the fellowship of the team environment, and the competition. They genuinely want to get better even if they have shot a 300 game, however the individuals that they have access to that are qualified to "coach" them to get better, don't genuinely want to be bothered unless you really happen to be very good friends with them. Or, when they do get advice, it is usually a lot of high level talk such as "just concentrate on each shot", or "just take your time". These guys would more than welcome critique on their approach, their release, their arm motion, etc., etc. However, since they can't readily get that, they continue to do the best that they can and rely on others that may not be qualified coaches per-say, but will help as best as they can.
I am fortunate enough where I bowl in a "sport-shot" league where I average about 187, and a THS league where I average 220. I buy no means consider myself that good, and know that I lack fundamentals that could really take my overall game to a new level. But I have personally faced rejection from some guys that I have approached and asked for pointers. I know that people only have so much time in a day and can't cater to everybody. But seriously, you can't take a couple minutes to to answer questions or critique me on shots you just saw me throw? Especially if I am actually bowling against or next to you that night? Normally, I have to rely on watching them closely, and taking mental notes on their game. And then based upon that, try to practice and apply what I have noted. Since the "sport" league I am in has some of the best bowlers in the region, with some of them being in the PBA, that knowledge has carried over to my THS league, thus causing me to average the 220.
However with all that being said, it is of my opinion that when guys who are poor to average bowler achieve a major accomplishment in bowling (300, 800, 11 in a row, etc), they want to do it again and again and again. And they will welcome any help they can get so they can consistently do that.
Just my opinion
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I've been bowling for 33 years (I'm only 37), and I still haven't shot one. Do I wish that I could hone my craft on harder conditions? Yes. Am I going to take my 300 if I shoot it on the soft condition? Yes. I've never once seen anyone give back pins because the condition was too easy. I still get shaky on the 8th or 9th one. 1 300 does not a good bowler make. They are still coachable and want to get better.
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Let me start by saying I love to watch people honor scores even if they are against me, with that being said Gizmo right in his last post about one thing. Some bowlers after they have one good game or series all an sudden they are all the PBA GREATS rolled up in one, I have friends who average 30 pins per game less than me have one good day start coaching me every frame. I shot more 300's and 800's than they ever will. I just learned to listen to them and go on about my business. Once again I repeat I love it when some one shoot an 300 or 800 even if it is their first or 50th because they are hard to come by.
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I'd never give back pins either, I'm not saying anyone should. And I guess I just don't have the good fortune of being around many people that aren't pissed off about something or another . . but for those of you that are so good at digging up my past, you may remember how excited I was about EVERYTHING until people on this site start routinely running me into the ground . . so before you get too amped up calling me bitter and pissy, consider your own contribution
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Of course I'm bitter and pissy, something I love is being run into the ground . . wouldn't you be bitter and pissy?
Strictly league players . . which comprises about 95% of sanctioned bowling . . of course good players will ask for coaching and get coaching, they understand the need for it. Rick Benoit recently moved to Saudi Arabia, but he used to have people here all the time for coaching, all the Brunswick pros, the Columbian national team, Kelly Kulick, Chris Barnes, etc. But the house hack league bowler didn't need to hear all the "big fancy technical mumbo jumbo." We had the single best coach on the PLANET living here, and all anybody tried to do was get free equipment out of him.
I know about real tournament bowling . . it doesn't happen here, it doesn't happen anywhere within driving distance. I'm too busy being involved with stuff anyway to bowl anything if I DID have the opportunity. And I'm taking little trial videos with an iphone . . hurt me bad . .
You've got over 5 times as many 300s as I have, but I've repeated over and over again that I still enjoy getting them. Just because I don't feel like they mean much in the grand scheme of things doesn't mean they still aren't a lot of fun. Here it means getting a jacket or coat from the center, your name up on the honor score board, and your name in the paper. If you shoot 800 the paper even calls and gets an interview to print. I've got that 800 crystal trophy on the way and am pretty excited about it, it's one of the nicest awards they've handed out . . but it doesn't give me delusions of grandeur.
And I really don't think you read the OP if you think I'm getting bent about it. The scoring pace has caused a huge problem for the competitive side of the sport, I don't think there's any denying that. Say what you want about what's causing the decline of league play, what's caused the decline of viewers of the PBA? I didn't get to golf much last year, but I still like watching it on tv. I subscribe to USBCs youtube channel, watch all their coverage of ANYTHING, and I never miss a PBA telecast.
What you're basically saying is that it's completely ok to have house shots and big scores and an emphasis on recreational bowling, but that it's not ok for anybody to want competition or a greater challenge . .
"It's a bunch of bitter pissy people that aren't happy for one reason or another. It's not even the scoring pace . . it's the lack of information and perspective and understanding."
YOU GIZMO are the biggest bitter pissy person on this site.....
You say they become 'uncoachable" are you KIDDING me...Ok Ok it may happen to strictly league players, but any good player is going to seek coaching (want coaching) even the best players in the world still receive coaching.
I think you're stuck inside a bubble, now either you don't get out and see real tournament bowling (probably because you're too busy making videos that have been done by 100 other people) or you're just simply bored in life to make all of these posts that rip up people who ACTUALLY enjoy the game of bowling and still get excited about bowling a 300 or bowling their FIRST 300.
Ok Ok back the original topic....I've had (80) 300 games and I enjoy every single one of them, 300 is still perfectection (sure everyone gets a lucky break) but i've seen a hole in one that the ball rolled right up the flagstick and straight back down into the hole. LUCK is just part of the game and 300 is just a number, I don't see why you get so bent over it.
I'm not going to comment on your entire post but a few key points:
SCORING has ZERO to do with the decline in league bowling, I repeat ZERO. The centers that work hard get results. The whole dynamic of the world has changed in the last 20 years when bowling started to decline. That has more to do with the decline than anything else. Scoring is all relative. Some times you have to average 250 to cash or win and sometimes 205 will cash. The better players almost always rise to the top of the filed.
You also in one breathe say that 95% of the sanctioned bowlers are league bowlers right? Well guees what? League bowling is RECREATIONAL bowling with the exception of a few competetive leagues out there, but even then people bowl in leagues to recreate. I never said it's not ok to strive for more competition. I guess i'm lucky because I bowl in an area where there are tournaments all the time, alot of the time on harder conditions.
And BTW Gizmo, the reason people "run you into the ground" is because of the way you have presented your obvious hate of the game. It all started way back when you could see a pin spot that was off by a quarter of an inch, then it was when customers would try to ask you questions about bowling balls and you couldn't concentrate on your own bowling. God forbid these pions asking you questions while you're bowling, they should be beheaded in front of the entire center so people know not to do it again.
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Well Gizmo I for one never taken any advice or comment from you as negative I learned that everyone has HIS or HER OWN WAY OF GETTING THEIR POINT ACROSS.
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Of course I'm bitter and pissy, something I love is being run into the ground . . wouldn't you be bitter and pissy?
Strictly league players . . which comprises about 95% of sanctioned bowling . . of course good players will ask for coaching and get coaching, they understand the need for it. Rick Benoit recently moved to Saudi Arabia, but he used to have people here all the time for coaching, all the Brunswick pros, the Columbian national team, Kelly Kulick, Chris Barnes, etc. But the house hack league bowler didn't need to hear all the "big fancy technical mumbo jumbo." We had the single best coach on the PLANET living here, and all anybody tried to do was get free equipment out of him.
I know about real tournament bowling . . it doesn't happen here, it doesn't happen anywhere within driving distance. I'm too busy being involved with stuff anyway to bowl anything if I DID have the opportunity. And I'm taking little trial videos with an iphone . . hurt me bad . .
You've got over 5 times as many 300s as I have, but I've repeated over and over again that I still enjoy getting them. Just because I don't feel like they mean much in the grand scheme of things doesn't mean they still aren't a lot of fun. Here it means getting a jacket or coat from the center, your name up on the honor score board, and your name in the paper. If you shoot 800 the paper even calls and gets an interview to print. I've got that 800 crystal trophy on the way and am pretty excited about it, it's one of the nicest awards they've handed out . . but it doesn't give me delusions of grandeur.
And I really don't think you read the OP if you think I'm getting bent about it. The scoring pace has caused a huge problem for the competitive side of the sport, I don't think there's any denying that. Say what you want about what's causing the decline of league play, what's caused the decline of viewers of the PBA? I didn't get to golf much last year, but I still like watching it on tv. I subscribe to USBCs youtube channel, watch all their coverage of ANYTHING, and I never miss a PBA telecast.
What you're basically saying is that it's completely ok to have house shots and big scores and an emphasis on recreational bowling, but that it's not ok for anybody to want competition or a greater challenge . .
"It's a bunch of bitter pissy people that aren't happy for one reason or another. It's not even the scoring pace . . it's the lack of information and perspective and understanding."
YOU GIZMO are the biggest bitter pissy person on this site.....
You say they become 'uncoachable" are you KIDDING me...Ok Ok it may happen to strictly league players, but any good player is going to seek coaching (want coaching) even the best players in the world still receive coaching.
I think you're stuck inside a bubble, now either you don't get out and see real tournament bowling (probably because you're too busy making videos that have been done by 100 other people) or you're just simply bored in life to make all of these posts that rip up people who ACTUALLY enjoy the game of bowling and still get excited about bowling a 300 or bowling their FIRST 300.
Ok Ok back the original topic....I've had (80) 300 games and I enjoy every single one of them, 300 is still perfectection (sure everyone gets a lucky break) but i've seen a hole in one that the ball rolled right up the flagstick and straight back down into the hole. LUCK is just part of the game and 300 is just a number, I don't see why you get so bent over it.
I'm not going to comment on your entire post but a few key points:
SCORING has ZERO to do with the decline in league bowling, I repeat ZERO. The centers that work hard get results. The whole dynamic of the world has changed in the last 20 years when bowling started to decline. That has more to do with the decline than anything else. Scoring is all relative. Some times you have to average 250 to cash or win and sometimes 205 will cash. The better players almost always rise to the top of the filed.
You also in one breathe say that 95% of the sanctioned bowlers are league bowlers right? Well guees what? League bowling is RECREATIONAL bowling with the exception of a few competetive leagues out there, but even then people bowl in leagues to recreate. I never said it's not ok to strive for more competition. I guess i'm lucky because I bowl in an area where there are tournaments all the time, alot of the time on harder conditions.
And BTW Gizmo, the reason people "run you into the ground" is because of the way you have presented your obvious hate of the game. It all started way back when you could see a pin spot that was off by a quarter of an inch, then it was when customers would try to ask you questions about bowling balls and you couldn't concentrate on your own bowling. God forbid these pions asking you questions while you're bowling, they should be beheaded in front of the entire center so people know not to do it again.
I'm such a sucker for a good argument . . I really ought to get that checked out. Scoring has a lot to do with the decline in the game, not all, but more than you're allowing. I know DOZENS of people who have quit because the scores got high. To keep your scores high and compete, you have to spend more money and more time. People have quit because they didn't want to spend the money on it, but it has become more expensive because of the scoring and technology increase. If all you needed was a plastic ball, 15 bucks a week to bowl doesn't hurt anybody. I also know plenty of people with the means who just don't see the point. "I can average 230 with one ball and never practice, that's not any fun to me."
And you are lucky to be in an area like that, good for you, I'm honestly very jealous. The only tournaments like that I have available require overnight stays, and that just doesn't work out.
Actually I'm talking about the WAY back when, like 2003 or something when I first started posting here. I was only a few years into bowling and excited about EVERYTHING bowling. Nearly everyone here ran me into the ground and made sure I knew just exactly how much everything I was exited about didn't matter. I was a complete tool and a moron . . lol but that's beside the point.
And I definitely don't hate the game . . if I did, I'd quit completely and you'd never see me on this site again. I suppose I'm just mad that not everybody loves it as much as I do and puts me down for it. Why shouldn't I expect the pins to be on spot? Why shouldn't I be able to bowl in peace and just have a beer and some fun? You wouldn't get bothered if your job called you in the middle of bowling and wanted to talk about work? Be nice to be able to clock out for a few minutes sometime . . it's really nice to have all the customers that specifically want to deal with you, but I don't think it's too much to ask to want to just relax a couple nights a week, that's all it amounts to. You're going pretty far out of your way to magnify this stuff.
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Giz,
I'm not sure what you are after. You talk about this bowler who won't take any coaching because he has had a 300. Ok. Why do you care, or think he needs some?
There are bowlers with very unique approaches that a coach may or may not have tried to adjust when they were young who turned out to do quite well on their own...Ted Hannahs & Michael Lichstien (probably spelled it wrong).
Do you see potential in this bowler? Why does he get under your skin? At least it appears that way on this forum.
In any bowling league I have ever participated in, team-mates opponents or even bowlers on adjacent pairs that know each other, make comments/suggestions about something someone is doing wrong or needs to change when they are struggling or just out of the blue.
My team members will tell me "slow" when they think my ball speed was too low. They have no idea if I did it intentionally has part of a move I made on the lane or not.
We are all "mini-coaches" in that aspect.
Also how would you feel if someone came to your shop and took an hour of your time discussing balls and layouts, and then proceeded to order it online and drill it someplace else based purely on your discussion.
Sometimes that's what coaches go through. People want their analysis and suggestions for "FREE".
I am kinda rambling all over the place because I'm not sure what you really want.
We all think we know something about bowling, and we all offer opinions. And sometimes we offer them whether we were asked or not.
And in all cases, we probably don't know everything we are talking about.
Heck, I've been bowling for almost 40 years. Using a 5 step approach for the last 30, and just last week, started my approach with the wrong foot. And of course, all 4 of my teammates yelled "balk" from the pit.
I guess I am asking what you are seeking from us here on the forum? Or are you just venting?
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Of course I'm bitter and pissy, something I love is being run into the ground . . wouldn't you be bitter and pissy?
Strictly league players . . which comprises about 95% of sanctioned bowling . . of course good players will ask for coaching and get coaching, they understand the need for it. Rick Benoit recently moved to Saudi Arabia, but he used to have people here all the time for coaching, all the Brunswick pros, the Columbian national team, Kelly Kulick, Chris Barnes, etc. But the house hack league bowler didn't need to hear all the "big fancy technical mumbo jumbo." We had the single best coach on the PLANET living here, and all anybody tried to do was get free equipment out of him.
I know about real tournament bowling . . it doesn't happen here, it doesn't happen anywhere within driving distance. I'm too busy being involved with stuff anyway to bowl anything if I DID have the opportunity. And I'm taking little trial videos with an iphone . . hurt me bad . .
You've got over 5 times as many 300s as I have, but I've repeated over and over again that I still enjoy getting them. Just because I don't feel like they mean much in the grand scheme of things doesn't mean they still aren't a lot of fun. Here it means getting a jacket or coat from the center, your name up on the honor score board, and your name in the paper. If you shoot 800 the paper even calls and gets an interview to print. I've got that 800 crystal trophy on the way and am pretty excited about it, it's one of the nicest awards they've handed out . . but it doesn't give me delusions of grandeur.
And I really don't think you read the OP if you think I'm getting bent about it. The scoring pace has caused a huge problem for the competitive side of the sport, I don't think there's any denying that. Say what you want about what's causing the decline of league play, what's caused the decline of viewers of the PBA? I didn't get to golf much last year, but I still like watching it on tv. I subscribe to USBCs youtube channel, watch all their coverage of ANYTHING, and I never miss a PBA telecast.
What you're basically saying is that it's completely ok to have house shots and big scores and an emphasis on recreational bowling, but that it's not ok for anybody to want competition or a greater challenge . .
"It's a bunch of bitter pissy people that aren't happy for one reason or another. It's not even the scoring pace . . it's the lack of information and perspective and understanding."
YOU GIZMO are the biggest bitter pissy person on this site.....
You say they become 'uncoachable" are you KIDDING me...Ok Ok it may happen to strictly league players, but any good player is going to seek coaching (want coaching) even the best players in the world still receive coaching.
I think you're stuck inside a bubble, now either you don't get out and see real tournament bowling (probably because you're too busy making videos that have been done by 100 other people) or you're just simply bored in life to make all of these posts that rip up people who ACTUALLY enjoy the game of bowling and still get excited about bowling a 300 or bowling their FIRST 300.
Ok Ok back the original topic....I've had (80) 300 games and I enjoy every single one of them, 300 is still perfectection (sure everyone gets a lucky break) but i've seen a hole in one that the ball rolled right up the flagstick and straight back down into the hole. LUCK is just part of the game and 300 is just a number, I don't see why you get so bent over it.
I'm not going to comment on your entire post but a few key points:
SCORING has ZERO to do with the decline in league bowling, I repeat ZERO. The centers that work hard get results. The whole dynamic of the world has changed in the last 20 years when bowling started to decline. That has more to do with the decline than anything else. Scoring is all relative. Some times you have to average 250 to cash or win and sometimes 205 will cash. The better players almost always rise to the top of the filed.
You also in one breathe say that 95% of the sanctioned bowlers are league bowlers right? Well guees what? League bowling is RECREATIONAL bowling with the exception of a few competetive leagues out there, but even then people bowl in leagues to recreate. I never said it's not ok to strive for more competition. I guess i'm lucky because I bowl in an area where there are tournaments all the time, alot of the time on harder conditions.
And BTW Gizmo, the reason people "run you into the ground" is because of the way you have presented your obvious hate of the game. It all started way back when you could see a pin spot that was off by a quarter of an inch, then it was when customers would try to ask you questions about bowling balls and you couldn't concentrate on your own bowling. God forbid these pions asking you questions while you're bowling, they should be beheaded in front of the entire center so people know not to do it again.
I'm such a sucker for a good argument . . I really ought to get that checked out. Scoring has a lot to do with the decline in the game, not all, but more than you're allowing. I know DOZENS of people who have quit because the scores got high. To keep your scores high and compete, you have to spend more money and more time. People have quit because they didn't want to spend the money on it, but it has become more expensive because of the scoring and technology increase. If all you needed was a plastic ball, 15 bucks a week to bowl doesn't hurt anybody. I also know plenty of people with the means who just don't see the point. "I can average 230 with one ball and never practice, that's not any fun to me."
And you are lucky to be in an area like that, good for you, I'm honestly very jealous. The only tournaments like that I have available require overnight stays, and that just doesn't work out.
Actually I'm talking about the WAY back when, like 2003 or something when I first started posting here. I was only a few years into bowling and excited about EVERYTHING bowling. Nearly everyone here ran me into the ground and made sure I knew just exactly how much everything I was exited about didn't matter. I was a complete tool and a moron . . lol but that's beside the point.
And I definitely don't hate the game . . if I did, I'd quit completely and you'd never see me on this site again. I suppose I'm just mad that not everybody loves it as much as I do and puts me down for it. Why shouldn't I expect the pins to be on spot? Why shouldn't I be able to bowl in peace and just have a beer and some fun? You wouldn't get bothered if your job called you in the middle of bowling and wanted to talk about work? Be nice to be able to clock out for a few minutes sometime . . it's really nice to have all the customers that specifically want to deal with you, but I don't think it's too much to ask to want to just relax a couple nights a week, that's all it amounts to. You're going pretty far out of your way to magnify this stuff.
The nature of the beast (when you're in the industry) whether it be as a pro shop guy or a center employee, you have to deal with people asking you questions. I do it everytime I bowl in my center and almost everytime I bowl in another center. In my opinion you should value these people asking you stuff, that means they respect your opinion.
I know a bowler that only uses pre-resin stuff in tournaments, and he kills it no matter what scoring condition is out there. He doesn't spend $200 on a bowling ball, heck he's still using the old Linds shoes, he's just that good. You don't have to spend hundreds of dollars on bowling balls, some people just have that infatuation with owning the latest and greatest balls....I drill a ton of balls for myself throughout the course of the year, but i'm fortunate because I get my stuff at cost and get some seed balls for free sometimes. I can tell you if I had to pay full retail I might ball 2 balls a year. And i guarantee i'd still perform just fine.
Bottom line everyone has their own opinions, mine is no more right than yours. You just seem to hate the current state oof the game and seem to be totally burnt out on it.
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I'm talking about the attitude in general. I'm not sure where everybody else is getting all this stuff that I'm either not saying or not implying, my point gets lost in all the rabbit trails that get created. I theorize about a lot, a lot of what I talk about has happened, yes, but I'm the kind of person that likes to be prepared. I see things that happen, and I see existing and potential problems and want to know how to deal with them better.
There are plenty of people that have all kinds of honor scores and don't have an attitude at all. On the other hand, there are plenty that get an attitude or think they're all the sudden a coach themselves and in doing that they cause a lot of problems for other people. I don't like seeing that, I want to know what I could do to fix it. I also have to quite frequently deal with people with the attitude that come in and want a ball, want a certain trick drilling, or complain about what they have and the lanes, the shot, etc. I want to help everybody, so I don't care about the attitude or the ego or whatnot, but when it prevents me or someone else from helping them, that's what I have the problem with. If they want a ball or a drilling or something to fix their problem, when the problem is mechanical or mental, I'm not going to give them a bandaid, because that just compounds the problem. If what they need is a mechanical adjustment, I feel like I'm doing a couple things. Helping them find the problem, and saving them money. Yeah I could sell them a ball and make some easy money, but I'm not in this for the money. Some people are just convinced it's not their fault though because they have an honor score. I never try to "force help" on anyone, but when they come and ask, and then resist, it puts me in a bad spot.
On the other hand, I often have to help try and undo problems they caused other people by trying to coach them or giving them bad advice. It also creates some pretty uncomfortable moments when these people come into the shop and try to do my job right in front of me, but offer horrible advice or suggestions. Another bad situation.
I also do have quite a few people pick my brain only to go someplace cheaper. It usually ends up bad and they spend more money having us fix it, but I'm just about getting people going in the right direction.
Some of it is venting, but some of it is bouncing ideas and thoughts off people. Sharing opinions, having debates, a lot of it is theoretical. What I say here is a far cry from how I operate in every day life. This is like "home" for a bowler. This is where you argue and debate, and let everything go loose and just hang out. But just like I don't leave the house without a shower or being presentable, I don't take all this to the shop. Most of the customers I have like me because I'm easy going, not pretentious, what matters to them matters to me, I'll go out of my way to help anybody, and because I can explain things with regular words instead of trying to impress them with fancy technical terms. Far cry from how I seem here, right? This is a different crowd though. I like to debate, to throw controversial stuff out there, to get way past honest about touchy topics. These arguments here really help me out, I can't count how many problems I've avoided with customers because of the things I've learned from people here. I get all kinds of reactions, perspectives, thoughts, ideas, angles, concepts, etc., just tons and tons of good stuff here, and that helps me adjust to every customer I have in a heartbeat. This is just a lot of training and preparation here, so I don't mind having pissing contests, yelling, fighting or scrapping here, because I've already run through the vast majority of scenarios with people here.
I'm super passionate about bowling, but that doesn't translate well very often. You don't make any progress with anyone if you're pissing them off, lol so if I piss people off here and judge reactions, I can reduce the likelihood of that happening in my every day dealings. It's not like I intentionally be an ass just to get something out of it, but sometimes I do try to light a fire to see where it goes.
Giz,
I'm not sure what you are after. You talk about this bowler who won't take any coaching because he has had a 300. Ok. Why do you care, or think he needs some?
There are bowlers with very unique approaches that a coach may or may not have tried to adjust when they were young who turned out to do quite well on their own...Ted Hannahs & Michael Lichstien (probably spelled it wrong).
Do you see potential in this bowler? Why does he get under your skin? At least it appears that way on this forum.
In any bowling league I have ever participated in, team-mates opponents or even bowlers on adjacent pairs that know each other, make comments/suggestions about something someone is doing wrong or needs to change when they are struggling or just out of the blue.
My team members will tell me "slow" when they think my ball speed was too low. They have no idea if I did it intentionally has part of a move I made on the lane or not.
We are all "mini-coaches" in that aspect.
Also how would you feel if someone came to your shop and took an hour of your time discussing balls and layouts, and then proceeded to order it online and drill it someplace else based purely on your discussion.
Sometimes that's what coaches go through. People want their analysis and suggestions for "FREE".
I am kinda rambling all over the place because I'm not sure what you really want.
We all think we know something about bowling, and we all offer opinions. And sometimes we offer them whether we were asked or not.
And in all cases, we probably don't know everything we are talking about.
Heck, I've been bowling for almost 40 years. Using a 5 step approach for the last 30, and just last week, started my approach with the wrong foot. And of course, all 4 of my teammates yelled "balk" from the pit.
I guess I am asking what you are seeking from us here on the forum? Or are you just venting?
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Of course I'm bitter and pissy, something I love is being run into the ground . . wouldn't you be bitter and pissy?
Strictly league players . . which comprises about 95% of sanctioned bowling . . of course good players will ask for coaching and get coaching, they understand the need for it. Rick Benoit recently moved to Saudi Arabia, but he used to have people here all the time for coaching, all the Brunswick pros, the Columbian national team, Kelly Kulick, Chris Barnes, etc. But the house hack league bowler didn't need to hear all the "big fancy technical mumbo jumbo." We had the single best coach on the PLANET living here, and all anybody tried to do was get free equipment out of him.
I know about real tournament bowling . . it doesn't happen here, it doesn't happen anywhere within driving distance. I'm too busy being involved with stuff anyway to bowl anything if I DID have the opportunity. And I'm taking little trial videos with an iphone . . hurt me bad . .
You've got over 5 times as many 300s as I have, but I've repeated over and over again that I still enjoy getting them. Just because I don't feel like they mean much in the grand scheme of things doesn't mean they still aren't a lot of fun. Here it means getting a jacket or coat from the center, your name up on the honor score board, and your name in the paper. If you shoot 800 the paper even calls and gets an interview to print. I've got that 800 crystal trophy on the way and am pretty excited about it, it's one of the nicest awards they've handed out . . but it doesn't give me delusions of grandeur.
And I really don't think you read the OP if you think I'm getting bent about it. The scoring pace has caused a huge problem for the competitive side of the sport, I don't think there's any denying that. Say what you want about what's causing the decline of league play, what's caused the decline of viewers of the PBA? I didn't get to golf much last year, but I still like watching it on tv. I subscribe to USBCs youtube channel, watch all their coverage of ANYTHING, and I never miss a PBA telecast.
What you're basically saying is that it's completely ok to have house shots and big scores and an emphasis on recreational bowling, but that it's not ok for anybody to want competition or a greater challenge . .
"It's a bunch of bitter pissy people that aren't happy for one reason or another. It's not even the scoring pace . . it's the lack of information and perspective and understanding."
YOU GIZMO are the biggest bitter pissy person on this site.....
You say they become 'uncoachable" are you KIDDING me...Ok Ok it may happen to strictly league players, but any good player is going to seek coaching (want coaching) even the best players in the world still receive coaching.
I think you're stuck inside a bubble, now either you don't get out and see real tournament bowling (probably because you're too busy making videos that have been done by 100 other people) or you're just simply bored in life to make all of these posts that rip up people who ACTUALLY enjoy the game of bowling and still get excited about bowling a 300 or bowling their FIRST 300.
Ok Ok back the original topic....I've had (80) 300 games and I enjoy every single one of them, 300 is still perfectection (sure everyone gets a lucky break) but i've seen a hole in one that the ball rolled right up the flagstick and straight back down into the hole. LUCK is just part of the game and 300 is just a number, I don't see why you get so bent over it.
I'm not going to comment on your entire post but a few key points:
SCORING has ZERO to do with the decline in league bowling, I repeat ZERO. The centers that work hard get results. The whole dynamic of the world has changed in the last 20 years when bowling started to decline. That has more to do with the decline than anything else. Scoring is all relative. Some times you have to average 250 to cash or win and sometimes 205 will cash. The better players almost always rise to the top of the filed.
You also in one breathe say that 95% of the sanctioned bowlers are league bowlers right? Well guees what? League bowling is RECREATIONAL bowling with the exception of a few competetive leagues out there, but even then people bowl in leagues to recreate. I never said it's not ok to strive for more competition. I guess i'm lucky because I bowl in an area where there are tournaments all the time, alot of the time on harder conditions.
And BTW Gizmo, the reason people "run you into the ground" is because of the way you have presented your obvious hate of the game. It all started way back when you could see a pin spot that was off by a quarter of an inch, then it was when customers would try to ask you questions about bowling balls and you couldn't concentrate on your own bowling. God forbid these pions asking you questions while you're bowling, they should be beheaded in front of the entire center so people know not to do it again.
I'm such a sucker for a good argument . . I really ought to get that checked out. Scoring has a lot to do with the decline in the game, not all, but more than you're allowing. I know DOZENS of people who have quit because the scores got high. To keep your scores high and compete, you have to spend more money and more time. People have quit because they didn't want to spend the money on it, but it has become more expensive because of the scoring and technology increase. If all you needed was a plastic ball, 15 bucks a week to bowl doesn't hurt anybody. I also know plenty of people with the means who just don't see the point. "I can average 230 with one ball and never practice, that's not any fun to me."
And you are lucky to be in an area like that, good for you, I'm honestly very jealous. The only tournaments like that I have available require overnight stays, and that just doesn't work out.
Actually I'm talking about the WAY back when, like 2003 or something when I first started posting here. I was only a few years into bowling and excited about EVERYTHING bowling. Nearly everyone here ran me into the ground and made sure I knew just exactly how much everything I was exited about didn't matter. I was a complete tool and a moron . . lol but that's beside the point.
And I definitely don't hate the game . . if I did, I'd quit completely and you'd never see me on this site again. I suppose I'm just mad that not everybody loves it as much as I do and puts me down for it. Why shouldn't I expect the pins to be on spot? Why shouldn't I be able to bowl in peace and just have a beer and some fun? You wouldn't get bothered if your job called you in the middle of bowling and wanted to talk about work? Be nice to be able to clock out for a few minutes sometime . . it's really nice to have all the customers that specifically want to deal with you, but I don't think it's too much to ask to want to just relax a couple nights a week, that's all it amounts to. You're going pretty far out of your way to magnify this stuff.
The nature of the beast (when you're in the industry) whether it be as a pro shop guy or a center employee, you have to deal with people asking you questions. I do it everytime I bowl in my center and almost everytime I bowl in another center. In my opinion you should value these people asking you stuff, that means they respect your opinion.
I know a bowler that only uses pre-resin stuff in tournaments, and he kills it no matter what scoring condition is out there. He doesn't spend $200 on a bowling ball, heck he's still using the old Linds shoes, he's just that good. You don't have to spend hundreds of dollars on bowling balls, some people just have that infatuation with owning the latest and greatest balls....I drill a ton of balls for myself throughout the course of the year, but i'm fortunate because I get my stuff at cost and get some seed balls for free sometimes. I can tell you if I had to pay full retail I might ball 2 balls a year. And i guarantee i'd still perform just fine.
Bottom line everyone has their own opinions, mine is no more right than yours. You just seem to hate the current state oof the game and seem to be totally burnt out on it.
Oh yeah, completely agree. It's just the type of job you never really get to clock out of, sometimes it's frustrating, but I'm not all as agitated as I appear about it, I realize that's just part of the deal. I'm burnt out on what there is to offer here . . I'd like the opportunity to get into some real competition on some challenging shots, and it's frustrating that I can't do that. But the name of the game in the pro shop business is making what is important to other people important to you. Not many people want what I want out of it. A big part of being a good operator/coach to me is respecting what people want out of it. Not everybody wants to be a pro or know all about drilling, laneplay, etc., sometimes they just want to be more consistent, or get a few tips on picking up the 10 pin more often.
When it comes to MY bowling, I'm a complete dick to myself, and that's what comes out here. I play devils advocate a lot too, I'm trying to learn something. But you're completely right, couldn't agree more.
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Giz,
One last comment/suggestion based on myself.
My A game is way better than my B,C,D game. So I have gone to my driller wanting to try a weird drill or trick drilling as you called it with the idea in mind that maybe that trick drilling will allow my to use my A game instead of having to goto my B game.
That mechanical adjustment you mentioned in a previous post for one bowler, to them may appear as you asking them to goto their B game when they don't want to practice or work on their B game or even make small mechanical adjustments to their A game.
They are happy throwing the ball the way they do, and they simply want to make a ball change instead of a hand change or any other game change to meet different conditions they encounter.
Just 2 cents on the subject.
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Granted, that makes sense. It's a slippery slope though, because if I just give them what they want, and somebody else points out their REAL issue, they could come back in upset that I sold them a ball rather than identified the real issue. It's a catch 22 more often than not, but again, the more I learn here, the more prepared I'll be to deal with those situations. A lot of bowlers aren't as self aware or objective as you seem to be about it . .
Giz,
One last comment/suggestion based on myself.
My A game is way better than my B,C,D game. So I have gone to my driller wanting to try a weird drill or trick drilling as you called it with the idea in mind that maybe that trick drilling will allow my to use my A game instead of having to goto my B game.
That mechanical adjustment you mentioned in a previous post for one bowler, to them may appear as you asking them to goto their B game when they don't want to practice or work on their B game or even make small mechanical adjustments to their A game.
They are happy throwing the ball the way they do, and they simply want to make a ball change instead of a hand change or any other game change to meet different conditions they encounter.
Just 2 cents on the subject.
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txbowler I see what you are saying from my team-mates every time we bowl travel league they will not adjust mechanically they just make an excuse and keep doing the same things.
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You either respect the game or you don't. I know lots of guys with dozens of 300's who do respect the game, and I know guys with none who blame high scores on cheater balls and walled lanes.
Something else I do know. I have had a few myself over the past 40 years. If I shoot another one I will be proud of it just as I was the first.
Lane conditions are no easier today than they were in 1976 when I shot my first. Balls can store more energy, so carry is better, thus the huge proliferation in 300s. If you look back the first big jump came when the soft polyester balls replaced hard rubber. Then there was a jump when urethane replaced polyester. Then a huge jump when resin enhanced urethane replaced urethane.
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On THS condition, I will cherish the next one but it will not come close to the thrill of my first.
The only thing that would make that happen would be to shoot one at nationals.
The value is personal and in some cases situational.
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That's what I'm beginning to figure out. I think I said somewhere else that all of mine have been on house shots, but some I actually value quite a bit because of the circumstances, and others I'm lucky my score was over 200. I had the front 9 at nationals a couple years ago, and seeing all the officials gather behind the pair and getting the cameras ready was cool enough.
On THS condition, I will cherish the next one but it will not come close to the thrill of my first.
The only thing that would make that happen would be to shoot one at nationals.
The value is personal and in some cases situational.
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I have had one at nationals, and had one in the quarter finals of the Masters many years ago. Got to admit that one was something special. I don't knock them off like I use to, although my last two were less than a year ago, and both on sport patterns.