Author Topic: There is NO Such Thing As A Heavy Oil Bowling Ball (Read 27581 times)

Necromancer · « **on:** March 25, 2007, 11:30:03 AM »

I came to this conclusion today as I saw yet another tournament filled with high performance balls just skid straight to the head pins by 200 + average bowlers. What I really liked about this tournament is that Ebonite supposedly sponsored it and was giving Total NV balls to entrants that paid the extra fee. What was funnier was watching these NV's nail the 3 pin shot after shot. It really put a smile on my face to see what some call "The Greatest Bowling Ball Ever" look like garbage. Some bowlers were even willing to trash their new NV's after the tournament. So hilarious!

Back to the point. I don't think any manufacturer should be able to say their ball performs on heavy oil. In the end, no ball hooks in heavy oil and I don't care if you throw it 10 mph or put 600 rpms on the ball. It will just go straight. When you are in tournament conditions where the walls are flooded and the oil is spread past 50 feet, give me a break. The best ball is a straight ball to the pocket. Hooking is impossible.

Bottom line: No HEAVY OIL bowling ball exists.

Discuss!

--------------------
Current Arsenal
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Storm Trauma ER
Storm Recharge
Ebonite Vortex Afterburner
Columbia 300 Messenger Ti
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Total Season Average: 205.642
2007 Year Average: 212.861
2007 Tournament Average: 161.167
The Vertigo is the best ball Storm ever made. Find one if you can.
I might have the strongest drilled Black Widow in history.

NateNice · « **Reply #46 on:** March 25, 2007, 11:46:15 PM »

quote:
It is insanely long. That is why the top score is around 220 for the whole tournament. Bowling a 600 will have you in the cash bracket. With over 300 bowlers at the tournament and 200's rare, I know it is very hard. It was a Reverse Block pattern with very little room for error. It is just a very challenging tournament, wouldn't say unfair since everyone suffered. It benefits those that play a more direct shot regularly in their leagues. Bowling a 650 or so was what was required to make it to the top 32 finals. The prize fund was pretty nice too. $50 x 300+ bowlers = $15,000+

quote:
quote:

In a way you are right, but I think you don't understand my question. I was looking for a ball (if there is one) that actually will hook on a flood. I play on PBA tournament conditions and up to 50 feet plus of heavy oil (not the heavy so many manufacturer's claim to be heavy, but heavy in that no one either slow ball speeds or monster rev's can hook more than a few boards at most).

50' of oil? That's insanely long. I've never seen a shot that long. Must be rough. Is that like a 45' shot with some carry down or are they really oiling 50'? I'm all for a challenging shot (I never complain about the lanes), but 50' is simply unfair.

There is such a thing. In golf for instance, you could put the pin anywhere you want on the green, but you don't because certain placements are considered unfair. In bowling, a 50' shot, to me, is unfair.

I'd whip out my urethane and play a pointed shot, up and in.

Maybe play really, really deep and throw left of the center arrow with a breakpoint of 17 or so? Just play really inside...

I think the limit should be 45'. Maybe I'm a baby.

--------------------
Current Arsenal
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Storm Trauma ER
Storm Recharge
Ebonite Vortex Afterburner
Columbia 300 Messenger Ti
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Total Season Average: 205.642
2007 Year Average: 212.861
2007 Tournament Average: 161.167
The Vertigo is the best ball Storm ever made. Find one if you can.
I might have the strongest drilled Black Widow in history.

I was in a similar one recently. I don't know the length as it wasn't posted, and we only got to roll one ball for practice so it was hard to tell from there, but I ended up using a urethane ball and playing right up. Just trying to keep my ball in play and leave easy spares.

This strategy worked well. Too bad I didn't start doing it until half way through the second game!

NateNice · « **Reply #47 on:** March 25, 2007, 11:50:51 PM »

I should add this is a good strategy in a lot of these big tournaments. You probably won't win the thing, as someone will go off with a big set somehow, but you'll win a lot of brackets.

Enter a ton of brackets and play for spares. Play right up the middle, allowing for a small easy hook by your urethane ball. You'll leave a lot of spares but you'll stay in play.

Convert your spares (oil shouldn't matter) and get close to your average (and beat it, you'd be surprised) and you'll beat most of the people who can't get anything going.

You won't win the tournament, but you'll probably make some cash.

And in this ones case, if breaking 600 gets you close, you might. If you're a great spare shooter, you'll get 200's if you stay clean and maybe get a double or a turkey.

It's a good strategy anyways. Don't be afraid to try something like that.

UCFKnight300 · « **Reply #48 on:** March 25, 2007, 11:52:31 PM »

"It really gives an advantage to ultra high rev players. I expect the crankers to win, if they can stay accurate as they're the only ones getting any kind of angle."

Tell that to Steve Jaros who won this tournament 2 years ago on the same 50 ft. pattern. Oh how much you have to learn.

--------------------
-Larsen
http://members.bowl.com/FindAMember/memberView.aspx?ms=379&mp=5548&s=2005-2006

Necromancer · « **Reply #49 on:** March 25, 2007, 11:53:07 PM »

Hopefully my PBA league in the summer will help me get better on these conditions. I will start playing spares straighter and this will help me ignore the oil pattern for spares.

--------------------
Current Arsenal
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Storm Trauma ER
Storm Recharge
Ebonite Vortex Afterburner
Columbia 300 Messenger Ti
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Total Season Average: 205.642
2007 Year Average: 212.861
2007 Tournament Average: 161.167
The Vertigo is the best ball Storm ever made. Find one if you can.
I might have the strongest drilled Black Widow in history.

NateNice · « **Reply #50 on:** March 25, 2007, 11:58:30 PM »

quote:
"It really gives an advantage to ultra high rev players. I expect the crankers to win, if they can stay accurate as they're the only ones getting any kind of angle."

Tell that to Steve Jaros who won this tournament 2 years ago on the same 50 ft. pattern. Oh how much you have to learn.

--------------------
-Larsen
http://members.bowl.com/FindAMember/memberView.aspx?ms=379&mp=5548&s=2005-2006

I did say "accurate" however.

I was just suggesting that a cranker whose as accurate as a stroker would have that advantage because of the extreme difference in entry angle.

Of course anyone can win. Jarros is a pro. He can beat anyone on any day on any condition.

But I believe a cranker that's as accurate as a stroker on these things has an innate advantage because the stroker will get no entry angle and the cranker will get some.

But you're right. I do have a lot to learn.

bowlingmytmouse · « **Reply #51 on:** March 25, 2007, 11:59:48 PM »

Necromancer,
Like many others have stated, heavy oil balls do exist. However that does not mean that you are going to be able to swing the ball to 5 every shot and get it to recover, especially on sport conditions. I am not saying that you are looking for this type of hook, but you must realize that a heavy oil ball will give you a different type of roll and hook than most balls.

Think of it like this...
lane conditioner = snow
Ball = tire

Now take a racing slick that gives a great deal of traction with in contact with dry warm pavement(drier lanes) and throw that same tire on a snow covered road, whats gonna happen? Skid, or sliding. But take a snow tire on those same snow covered conditions and what do you get? Some traction. Now does that mean that you will be able to get as much traction with a snow tire on snow as a slick does on dry pavement? No, but it does give you something to work with

Secondly,
What type of shots are you playing on in your tourneys? The reason I ask is because there is a vast difference between your season avg and your tournament averages. And I wondering if that is due to you bowling on sport shots for the tournaments and house shots for others.

BMM

--------------------
Roto Grip forever!!!! What else is there??

Team Member Of
Hoss Central Inc.

The SuperHitMan · « **Reply #52 on:** March 26, 2007, 12:03:56 AM »

Necromancer,
Like many others have stated, heavy oil balls do exist. However that does not mean that you are going to be able to swing the ball to 5 every shot and get it to recover, especially on sport conditions. I am not saying that you are looking for this type of hook, but you must realize that a heavy oil ball will give you a different type of roll and hook than most balls.

Think of it like this...
lane conditioner = snow
Ball = tire

Now take a racing slick that gives a great deal of traction with in contact with dry warm pavement(drier lanes) and throw that same tire on a snow covered road, whats gonna happen? Skid, or sliding. But take a snow tire on those same snow covered conditions and what do you get? Some traction. Now does that mean that you will be able to get as much traction with a snow tire on snow as a slick does on dry pavement? No, but it does give you something to work with

Secondly,
What type of shots are you playing on in your tourneys? The reason I ask is because there is a vast difference between your season avg and your tournament averages. And I wondering if that is due to you bowling on sport shots for the tournaments and house shots for others.

BMM

--------------------
Roto Grip forever!!!! What else is there??

Team Member Of
Hoss Central Inc.

UUUUUUUUNGH!!!! GREAT POINT YOUNG MAN!!!!!!
--------------------
Wayne Saunders: AH-HUUUUUHHHHH KACE YOU SHOT 300 AH-HUUUUHHHHHHHH!!!

Janeen Hall: Congratulations Baby.

Tommy B: I'm proud of you.....

Mike Hall: I yelled the last shot in there....

K.C. White II:

And I did it My Way Hooking the lane with a high-end piece, Take that Mr. Slater...I did it my way

I got what I came for.

---------------------

Team Member Of
Hoss Central Inc. Win

or go Home

"Don't preach if you won't teach."-KDW

"You don't get a ring for bowling all spares

-KDW

"I bowl for the tournament cashes/wins and I bowl for the honor score rings, but most importantly I bowl for the Love of the game"-KDW

Necromancer · « **Reply #53 on:** March 26, 2007, 12:10:31 AM »

For tournaments, they are the 5 PBA conditions, the Regional conditions, US Open Flat shot, and Reverse Block up to 50 feet. The league is THS.

--------------------
Current Arsenal
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Storm Trauma ER
Storm Recharge
Ebonite Vortex Afterburner
Columbia 300 Messenger Ti
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Total Season Average: 205.642
2007 Year Average: 212.861
2007 Tournament Average: 161.167
The Vertigo is the best ball Storm ever made. Find one if you can.
I might have the strongest drilled Black Widow in history.

bowlingmytmouse · « **Reply #54 on:** March 26, 2007, 12:26:25 AM »

Thats kinda what I figured. Before you go out and buy the next hook monster...you are going to have to change the way you attack the lanes...TREMENDOUSLY. Now this does not mean that you are not a good bowler, but its like night and day on THS and PBA patterns as you have seen.

All I bowl on is sport patterns in both league and tournaments. Why? Because why bowl on in league what you won't see in tourneys. But thats just me, but when I get to a tourney I find that I am A LOT more comfortable beacuse its something that I have seen before.

And I Will let you know a secret. If you watch closely to when the PBA has the Shark pattern out and even the US OPEN pattern, look at what the players have in their hands...You rarely see all the hook monsters that were mentioned in this post. More often than none, they are strong reactive resins usually with a little polish on them and a layout with the "pin up". Why? because they want all the motoion on the backend, there is just too much oil in the middle to worry about midlane movement. I know that when I first started on long patterns I would get the biggest hooking ball I could find and it would go straight because I played the lanes wrong and the ball was drilled to rev early so in the backends there was no more energy left in the ball.

Now also look at the lines they play, really tight inside, almost on a rope to the 3 pin. You will never see them trying to play outside of 10, but for must 15 on real long oil.

Like I said, its going to take some adjusting to get used to the patterns. But don't do it with a ball purchase, start with your game first. Believe me, it works better that way

Sorry the post was so long, but I hope it helps.

BMM
--------------------
Roto Grip forever!!!! What else is there??

Team Member Of
Hoss Central Inc.

NateNice · « **Reply #55 on:** March 26, 2007, 12:37:34 AM »

quote:
quote:
quote:
watch the PBA next week if you've never seen 50 ft. although they will have burnt a nice spot in the lane and scores will more than likely be very high.

--------------------
-Larsen
http://members.bowl.com/FindAMember/memberView.aspx?ms=379&mp=5548&s=2005-2006

Looking forward to it then! That's crazy. I've really never heard of putting out a 50' shot. I know the PBA patterns only go up to 45', I believe.

10' of backend is rough.

It really gives an advantage to ultra high rev players. I expect the crankers to win, if they can stay accurate as they're the only ones getting any kind of angle.

Not true. A lower rev player pointing it off the corner is going to get as much if not more angle than if a cranker were to try and swing the ball. It's all about matching speed and revs to the pattern, not just trying to get "ultra high revs."
--------------------
http://www.BrunswickBowling.com

I'm officially a ball junkie

I never suggested to swing the ball. Why would someone do that? It would never come back.

I was talking about playing way inside, throwing left of the center arrow and breaking on about 18. There's no swing here. This is an inside shot all the way.

I wouldn't play it that way myself as I don't have enough practice trying to repeat that shot. But I've seen great success with it on very long (45'+ type) reverse block patterns. I'd break out the urethane and play as you suggested and play the spare game. But I have to be more accurate than those that can crank an inside shot like this. They'll skid until their breakpoint which is 8'- 13' in front of the 3 pin and the ball will recover enough to allow for some missed shots.

But there's more than one way to skin a cat. I think those that can do this get advantage. That's fine.

Edited on 3/26/2007 0:38 AM

NateNice · « **Reply #56 on:** March 26, 2007, 12:43:22 AM »

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
watch the PBA next week if you've never seen 50 ft. although they will have burnt a nice spot in the lane and scores will more than likely be very high.

--------------------
-Larsen
http://members.bowl.com/FindAMember/memberView.aspx?ms=379&mp=5548&s=2005-2006

Looking forward to it then! That's crazy. I've really never heard of putting out a 50' shot. I know the PBA patterns only go up to 45', I believe.

10' of backend is rough.

It really gives an advantage to ultra high rev players. I expect the crankers to win, if they can stay accurate as they're the only ones getting any kind of angle.

Not true. A lower rev player pointing it off the corner is going to get as much if not more angle than if a cranker were to try and swing the ball. It's all about matching speed and revs to the pattern, not just trying to get "ultra high revs."
--------------------
http://www.BrunswickBowling.com

I'm officially a ball junkie

I never suggested to swing the ball. Why would someone do that? It would never come back.

I was talking about playing way inside, throwing left of the center arrow and breaking on about 18. There's no swing here. This is an inside shot all the way.

I wouldn't play it that way myself as I don't have enough practice trying to repeat that shot. But I've seen great success with it on very long (45'+ type) reverse block patterns. I'd break out the urethane and play as you suggested and play the spare game.

If you are talking about purely angles, it is the same concept. If you are talking about a pattern that is long and slick (whichyou seem to be), that type of shot, even for a cranker, will still not generate as much "angle" as any bowler playing off of the corner.
--------------------
http://www.BrunswickBowling.com

I'm officially a ball junkie

Would you agree they would have a little more margin of error with that shot? Not to mention more power as the ball skidded all the way down where as the pointed corner shot rolled more and thus lost more energy.

Bowler19 · « **Reply #57 on:** March 26, 2007, 12:47:30 AM »

Quote

Obviously if there is 60 feet of oil, blocked across the entire lane, it's impossible for any material to hook. However, this is never the case./quote]

I have seen a 60ft pattern once in a tournament Qualifing round. But it was due to oiler malfunction. the Decks were actually oiled and had to be cleaned off. NOTHING HOOKED AT ALL. But I agree baring malfunctions this is never the case.

As far as true heavy oil balls Visionary's AMB Particle is pretty decent on a heavy flood.
--------------------
Bowler19
But be not afraid of greatness: some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them.-W. Shakespear
"Some are born great, some achieve greatness, other get it as a graduation present"
Robin Williams

NateNice · « **Reply #58 on:** March 26, 2007, 12:50:45 AM »

quote:
Quote
Obviously if there is 60 feet of oil, blocked across the entire lane, it's impossible for any material to hook. However, this is never the case./quote]

I have seen a 60ft pattern once in a tournament Qualifing round. But it was due to oiler malfunction. the Decks were actually oiled and had to be cleaned off. NOTHING HOOKED AT ALL. But I agree baring malfunctions this is never the case.

As far as true heavy oil balls Visionary's AMB Particle is pretty decent on a heavy flood.
--------------------
Bowler19
But be not afraid of greatness: some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them.-W. Shakespear
"Some are born great, some achieve greatness, other get it as a graduation present"
Robin Williams

Holy sh** that would be fun to bowl on!

I'd imagine oil got all over the pin deck and players started getting sliding pins all over the place.

Bowler19 · « **Reply #59 on:** March 26, 2007, 01:03:26 AM »

quote:
quote:
Quote
Obviously if there is 60 feet of oil, blocked across the entire lane, it's impossible for any material to hook. However, this is never the case./quote]

I have seen a 60ft pattern once in a tournament Qualifing round. But it was due to oiler malfunction. the Decks were actually oiled and had to be cleaned off. NOTHING HOOKED AT ALL. But I agree baring malfunctions this is never the case.

As far as true heavy oil balls Visionary's AMB Particle is pretty decent on a heavy flood.
--------------------
Bowler19
But be not afraid of greatness: some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them.-W. Shakespear
"Some are born great, some achieve greatness, other get it as a graduation present"
Robin Williams

Holy sh** that would be fun to bowl on!

I'd imagine oil got all over the pin deck and players started getting sliding pins all over the place.

It was quite fun to watch I bowled on Fresh lanes after. as I was working the desk then and had was one of the people cleaning the decks off. You are right near the mid-end of the forth game the pins started to slide around noticeably.
--------------------
Bowler19
But be not afraid of greatness: some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them.-W. Shakespear
"Some are born great, some achieve greatness, other get it as a graduation present"
Robin Williams

xxZonexx · « **Reply #60 on:** March 26, 2007, 06:22:05 AM »

"quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greensburgh open

??
--------------------
PennState 2006-2010
Dynothane
Threshold 4 x 4
Inferno pin under 4x5
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah were you there? I had a good first game and then it all went downhill after that. Top score of the day was like 220. Saw a lot of gutter balls.

On the TNV, was mentioning it since a lot of people were using them and nailing the 3 pin frame after frame.

I was unaware there were true heavy oil balls in old Urethane balls. I will need to check out the Blue Hammer. I did see some Rhinos there and they hooked somewhat. But like the other balls, go past the 10 board on either side, 99% of the time the ball went into the gutter. I never threw a ball in the gutter today but did hit Brooklyn a lot. Having a handicap of 4 meant I need to hit 650 or so to get to finals. I obviously didn't. "

Haha, Well I WAS supposed to go buy my ball driller is a landscaper also and it being 63 here in Pittsburgh Pa, he went to work instead, and i wasnt going my self so i worked with him for the day.

--------------------
PennState 2006-2010
Dynothane
Threshold 4 x 4
Inferno pin under 4x5

Author Topic: There is NO Such Thing As A Heavy Oil Bowling Ball (Read 27581 times)

Necromancer

There is NO Such Thing As A Heavy Oil Bowling Ball

NateNice

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NateNice

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UCFKnight300

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Necromancer

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NateNice

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bowlingmytmouse

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The SuperHitMan

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Necromancer

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bowlingmytmouse

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NateNice

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NateNice

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Bowler19

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NateNice

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Bowler19

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xxZonexx

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