Post by: Necromancer on March 25, 2007, 11:30:03 AM
Back to the point. I don't think any manufacturer should be able to say their ball performs on heavy oil. In the end, no ball hooks in heavy oil and I don't care if you throw it 10 mph or put 600 rpms on the ball. It will just go straight. When you are in tournament conditions where the walls are flooded and the oil is spread past 50 feet, give me a break. The best ball is a straight ball to the pocket. Hooking is impossible.
Bottom line: No HEAVY OIL bowling ball exists.
Discuss!
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Storm Trauma ER
Storm Recharge
Ebonite Vortex Afterburner
Columbia 300 Messenger Ti
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Total Season Average: 205.642
2007 Year Average: 212.861
2007 Tournament Average: 161.167
The Vertigo is the best ball Storm ever made. Find one if you can.
I might have the strongest drilled Black Widow in history.
Post by: xxZonexx on March 25, 2007, 07:35:12 PM
--------------------
PennState 2006-2010
Dynothane
Threshold 4 x 4
Inferno pin under 4x5
Post by: Eddie M on March 25, 2007, 07:37:47 PM
Old school urethane balls like the Blue Hammer or Stringray will work better on those lane conditions than a resin ball will.
Post by: LowRG on March 25, 2007, 07:43:35 PM
Post by: The SuperHitMan on March 25, 2007, 07:45:12 PM
Yes they do.-Ernie McCracken pt 2
Gotta go with Ernie on this one
--------------------
Wayne Saunders: AH-HUUUUUHHHHH KACE YOU SHOT 300 AH-HUUUUHHHHHHHH!!!
Janeen Hall: Congratulations Baby.
Tommy B: I'm proud of you.....
Mike Hall: I yelled the last shot in there....
K.C. White II:
And I did it My Way Hooking the lane with a high-end piece, Take that Mr. Slater...I did it my way I got what I came for.---------------------
Team Member Of
Hoss Central Inc. Win
or go Home
"Don't preach if you won't teach."-KDW
"You don't get a ring for bowling all spares
-KDW"I bowl for the tournament cashes/wins and I bowl for the honor score rings, but most importantly I bowl for the Love of the game"-KDW
Post by: 230-n-up-or-bust on March 25, 2007, 07:46:17 PM
quote:
Where did you hear the Total NV was a heavy oil ball? It is a pearlized reactive resin bowling ball. That for the most part means medium. Unless there s surface work involved. Now, if you told me that 360-grit TNV's were skidding 55-feet, then by all means you have a valid point. Find a particle ball. There is your oiler.
(sarcasm on)
Come on, now.
Certainly you've heard of large volume, 2:1, long pattern sport leagues with polished reactive pearlized equipment ruling the roost.
(sarcasm off)
--------------------
I wake up in the morning and piss excellence.
It appears that the sole purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.
Post by: NateNice on March 25, 2007, 07:49:49 PM
Today for instance I was on a shot that had a lot of carry down. I tried using a Vapor Zone and it got through fine but when it got to the back end, it couldn't deal with the oil. I took out a Fury and it didn't care about the carry down at all.
This was a "heavy oil" condition in that there wasn't much backend at all because of the carry down. but the fury makes its move a bit in the midlane and then plows through an oilier backend with ease. However, on a shorter shot with a clean back end, this ball would be hard to control. A ball like a Vapor Zone would skid until the back end and then make a move.
I'd agree you could apply enough oil to a lane where the ball doesn't matter. But this is never the case.
Post by: slap on March 25, 2007, 07:51:26 PM
WMB
--------------------
"Student of the Game"
Balls
Black Widow
Toxic
Vibe (blue)
Columbia Blue Dot
Weapon of Mass Bias
Awesome Revs
http://s9.photobucket.com/albums/a63/slap1914/bowling/
Post by: Necromancer on March 25, 2007, 07:55:44 PM
quote:
Greensburgh open ?????
--------------------
PennState 2006-2010
Dynothane
Threshold 4 x 4
Inferno pin under 4x5
Yeah were you there? I had a good first game and then it all went downhill after that. Top score of the day was like 220. Saw a lot of gutter balls.
On the TNV, was mentioning it since a lot of people were using them and nailing the 3 pin frame after frame.
I was unaware there were true heavy oil balls in old Urethane balls. I will need to check out the Blue Hammer. I did see some Rhinos there and they hooked somewhat. But like the other balls, go past the 10 board on either side, 99% of the time the ball went into the gutter. I never threw a ball in the gutter today but did hit Brooklyn a lot. Having a handicap of 4 meant I need to hit 650 or so to get to finals. I obviously didn't.
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Storm Trauma ER
Storm Recharge
Ebonite Vortex Afterburner
Columbia 300 Messenger Ti
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Total Season Average: 205.642
2007 Year Average: 212.861
2007 Tournament Average: 161.167
The Vertigo is the best ball Storm ever made. Find one if you can.
I might have the strongest drilled Black Widow in history.
Post by: Necromancer on March 25, 2007, 07:58:08 PM
quote:
Reactive balls werent meant for Heavy Oil, Thats why Particle balls were made and thats what i use. Particle balls handle everything for me and most people medium oil and above. My EPX T1, Phenom, Fear Factor, Freak, are all heavy oil balls that i have owned. Balls that have strong weightblocks, stronger coverstocks(anything sanded particle) are basically heavy oil balls. I get my EPX T1 to move on flooded conditions. Anything for medium-heavy oil I use particle balls or my EPX T1 due to the extremely agressive coverstock. Playing the right line and useing a sanded particle coverstock will handle any oil you throw at them.
--------------------
www.luxorbowlingsupplies.com
I have been curious on the EPX T1. It is known to be great in oil. But then I heard stories of the ball cracking apart and then sucking after games were put on the ball. Does your still work good? If it does, I may get one just to have for tournaments only. This way I can prevent too much oil building into the ball. Let me know!
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Storm Trauma ER
Storm Recharge
Ebonite Vortex Afterburner
Columbia 300 Messenger Ti
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Total Season Average: 205.642
2007 Year Average: 212.861
2007 Tournament Average: 161.167
The Vertigo is the best ball Storm ever made. Find one if you can.
I might have the strongest drilled Black Widow in history.
Post by: fins4ever88 on March 25, 2007, 08:00:47 PM
quote:quote:
Reactive balls werent meant for Heavy Oil, Thats why Particle balls were made and thats what i use. Particle balls handle everything for me and most people medium oil and above. My EPX T1, Phenom, Fear Factor, Freak, are all heavy oil balls that i have owned. Balls that have strong weightblocks, stronger coverstocks(anything sanded particle) are basically heavy oil balls. I get my EPX T1 to move on flooded conditions. Anything for medium-heavy oil I use particle balls or my EPX T1 due to the extremely agressive coverstock. Playing the right line and useing a sanded particle coverstock will handle any oil you throw at them.
--------------------
www.luxorbowlingsupplies.com
I have been curious on the EPX T1. It is known to be great in oil. But then I heard stories of the ball cracking apart and then sucking after games were put on the ball. Does your still work good? If it does, I may get one just to have for tournaments only. This way I can prevent too much oil building into the ball. Let me know!
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Storm Trauma ER
Storm Recharge
Ebonite Vortex Afterburner
Columbia 300 Messenger Ti
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Total Season Average: 205.642
2007 Year Average: 212.861
2007 Tournament Average: 161.167
The Vertigo is the best ball Storm ever made. Find one if you can.
I might have the strongest drilled Black Widow in history.
It's easy to tell if the ball is oil-soaked or not. If it is lighter in color, the ball is fine. When it gets darker, there is too much oil and it needs a hot-water bath. If you don't mind giving it an oil-extraction every 5-10 games or so, it should be good to you (assuming it doesn't crack).
--------------------
---Ryan
Post by: Necromancer on March 25, 2007, 08:05:25 PM
quote:
Yeah my EPX T1 is fine and is my Particle ball that is easy to clean but requires high matience. When this ball is done being used you give the ball a hot water bath and the ball is brand new again and always will be. This is the strongest coverstock in bowling, then Particle, then Reactive. Other great balls are the AMB Centuar Particle, Super Carbide Bomb, Weapon of Mass Bias, and the Mammoth. My brother also has an EPX T1 for the same reason.
--------------------
www.luxorbowlingsupplies.com
Edited on 3/25/2007 8:03 PM
I saw the coverstock is Epoxy. Is this a new coverstock? Do other balls use epoxy?
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Storm Trauma ER
Storm Recharge
Ebonite Vortex Afterburner
Columbia 300 Messenger Ti
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Total Season Average: 205.642
2007 Year Average: 212.861
2007 Tournament Average: 161.167
The Vertigo is the best ball Storm ever made. Find one if you can.
I might have the strongest drilled Black Widow in history.
Post by: fins4ever88 on March 25, 2007, 08:09:04 PM
quote:quote:
Yeah my EPX T1 is fine and is my Particle ball that is easy to clean but requires high matience. When this ball is done being used you give the ball a hot water bath and the ball is brand new again and always will be. This is the strongest coverstock in bowling, then Particle, then Reactive. Other great balls are the AMB Centuar Particle, Super Carbide Bomb, Weapon of Mass Bias, and the Mammoth. My brother also has an EPX T1 for the same reason.
--------------------
www.luxorbowlingsupplies.com
Edited on 3/25/2007 8:03 PM
I saw the coverstock is Epoxy. Is this a new coverstock? Do other balls use epoxy?
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Storm Trauma ER
Storm Recharge
Ebonite Vortex Afterburner
Columbia 300 Messenger Ti
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Total Season Average: 205.642
2007 Year Average: 212.861
2007 Tournament Average: 161.167
The Vertigo is the best ball Storm ever made. Find one if you can.
I might have the strongest drilled Black Widow in history.
Epoxy is why Columbia was sold. They spent so many years in research and development of the coverstock, just for the ball to flop and cause them to lose all the money they spent on it. A couple of test balls from AMF (Velocity, you can find them on Ebay) can be found with Epoxy, but that's about it.
--------------------
---Ryan
Post by: Eddie M on March 25, 2007, 08:13:43 PM
quote:
I was unaware there were true heavy oil balls in old Urethane balls. I will need to check out the Blue Hammer. I did see some Rhinos there and they hooked somewhat.
Back before and during the time resin balls became widely used, several ball manufacturers release some really good equipment that can be used even today for extreme oil conditions. Balls like the Blue Hammer from Faball, Stringray from Columbia, Crush from Ebonite, or the Yellow/Purple Angles, or Cobra from AMF, will all hook when a resin ball skids thru the deck. Just stand right, and throw them up the twig, and you will get an even arching look all day long.
If you really want the same look as a resin ball will give you, then get yourself particle ball (although I hate particle balls). But in a really soup, a urethane ball will give you a consistent look, while anyone newer covers, will make you work alot harder to find and maintain the shot.
These are just my opinions though.. and what do I know.
Post by: Necromancer on March 25, 2007, 08:15:25 PM
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Storm Trauma ER
Storm Recharge
Ebonite Vortex Afterburner
Columbia 300 Messenger Ti
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Total Season Average: 205.642
2007 Year Average: 212.861
2007 Tournament Average: 161.167
The Vertigo is the best ball Storm ever made. Find one if you can.
I might have the strongest drilled Black Widow in history.
Post by: CRSmith on March 25, 2007, 08:21:46 PM
Post by: VAbowler on March 25, 2007, 08:22:42 PM
Post by: Necromancer on March 25, 2007, 08:24:41 PM
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Storm Trauma ER
Storm Recharge
Ebonite Vortex Afterburner
Columbia 300 Messenger Ti
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Total Season Average: 205.642
2007 Year Average: 212.861
2007 Tournament Average: 161.167
The Vertigo is the best ball Storm ever made. Find one if you can.
I might have the strongest drilled Black Widow in history.
Post by: CRSmith on March 25, 2007, 08:28:57 PM
Post by: Necromancer on March 25, 2007, 08:31:14 PM
quote:
It was packed for me as well. I didn't figure I was high enough to cash. I shot 4 games in the 180's last year. So 601 was an improvement.
601 is just a few marks short of cashing though. Good job. I saw very low scores today and very few 200 games. Maybe the hardest conditions I have faced yet this year. It helps you get better though. After a tournament a couple weeks ago I came back to league play and nearly shot 300 and wound up just short of 700 series.
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Storm Trauma ER
Storm Recharge
Ebonite Vortex Afterburner
Columbia 300 Messenger Ti
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Total Season Average: 205.642
2007 Year Average: 212.861
2007 Tournament Average: 161.167
The Vertigo is the best ball Storm ever made. Find one if you can.
I might have the strongest drilled Black Widow in history.
Post by: CRSmith on March 25, 2007, 08:37:21 PM
Post by: shipper50 on March 25, 2007, 08:40:22 PM
Shipper
Post by: J_Mac on March 25, 2007, 08:41:35 PM
--------------------
"A word to the wise ain't necessary -- it's the stupid ones that need the advice." Bill Cosby
"Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."
Post by: CRSmith on March 25, 2007, 08:44:17 PM
Post by: urbanshaft on March 25, 2007, 08:55:30 PM
Post by: mainzer on March 25, 2007, 09:10:19 PM
Sorry, if that sounds like an attack it was the best way to word it I could come up with.
--------------------
Mainzerpower
Post by: Necromancer on March 25, 2007, 09:14:04 PM
quote:
Well the TNVs are not designed for heavy oil so if you are anyone was using it during said tournement you deserve low scores for not grabbing something more aggresive and !ADJUSTING! In my View, after reading your current aresenal you have nothing that was meant to be used on a flood, if you want to see a heavy oil ball try MoRich's Awesome Hook, or Columbia's EPXt1, or possibly Roto's Epic Battle.
Sorry, if that sounds like an attack it was the best way to word it I could come up with.
--------------------
Mainzerpower
I take all advice like a man. I just reviewed my arsenal (listed and not listed) and I see no solid particle balls! I got a bunch of reactives. I do have the Afterburner and it is a Particle Pearl meant for super dry conditions. I am going to load up on some PARTICLE balls and maybe the EPX epoxy.
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Storm Trauma ER
Storm Recharge
Ebonite Vortex Afterburner
Columbia 300 Messenger Ti
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Total Season Average: 205.642
2007 Year Average: 212.861
2007 Tournament Average: 161.167
The Vertigo is the best ball Storm ever made. Find one if you can.
I might have the strongest drilled Black Widow in history.
Post by: pro shop guy on March 25, 2007, 09:22:26 PM
Post by: Necromancer on March 25, 2007, 09:28:14 PM
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Storm Trauma ER
Storm Recharge
Ebonite Vortex Afterburner
Columbia 300 Messenger Ti
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Total Season Average: 205.642
2007 Year Average: 212.861
2007 Tournament Average: 161.167
The Vertigo is the best ball Storm ever made. Find one if you can.
I might have the strongest drilled Black Widow in history.
Post by: Necromancer on March 25, 2007, 09:35:59 PM
quote:quote:
Visionary AMB Particle.....ENOUGH SAID>>>>>LOL
If you can't hook that thing, nothing is going to help you.
--------------------
www.absolutebowling.com troll free zone
Currently looking for one right now online.
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Storm Trauma ER
Storm Recharge
Ebonite Vortex Afterburner
Columbia 300 Messenger Ti
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Total Season Average: 205.642
2007 Year Average: 212.861
2007 Tournament Average: 161.167
The Vertigo is the best ball Storm ever made. Find one if you can.
I might have the strongest drilled Black Widow in history.
Post by: shipper50 on March 25, 2007, 09:44:14 PM
Shipper
Post by: mainzer on March 25, 2007, 10:18:46 PM
--------------------
Mainzerpower
Post by: NateNice on March 25, 2007, 10:47:17 PM
quote:
Well, lets see. As far as I know there is NOT a bigger ball ho than me (other than Bracket Creep, Lucky Lefty and Fbila35)
I've had just about every high load, medium load and light load particle ball there is. I've also had just about every solid reactive there is, including the Fury. I've even owned a GRIZZ ()
People, I'm telling you. Nothing will out hook a EPX A1 or T1. N O T H I N G.
Properly drilled (as per the drill instructions)the ball will hook on ice. Not properly drilled, it's giant turd..
I just wish I had a video camera so I could do a side by side and compare it to the rest of the so-called hook monsters..
--------------------
Keep looking... I'm sure there's a 300 in one of those balls you keep buying!!
(\ /)
( . .)
c(')(') here bunny bunny bunny....
Edited on 3/25/2007 10:38 PM
Edited on 3/25/2007 10:38 PM
Except for the fact they smell bad and crack.
There's a reason that ball killed Columbia.
Post by: Roto-Mat on March 25, 2007, 10:48:52 PM
--------------------
Roto-Grip Staffer
Turbo 2·N·1 Staffer
Owner/Operator of
Champions Bowling Services
Post by: UCFKnight300 on March 25, 2007, 11:02:20 PM
I haven't posted on here in quite a while, just been busy with life and trying to get a career started. But, with a lot of topics in todays bowling world revolving about how much balls hook and how it has destroyed the game, this topic just brings it to the forefront.
Mr. Necromancer, it sounds to me as you are complaining that no ball will hook enough on this "flood" that you have bowled on, and you are now looking to purchase a new ball to tackle this. Do you expect a new ball to make your scores go up 100 sticks a set so you can get a check?
Throwing a sanded particle ball on any condition might help you control the lane a little better, but it also has downsides that will hurt your score. When you do get to the pocket, from your comfortable part of the lane, your ball will hit like doo. It might be a flood and you might not think it will be able to burn that much energy, but it will and you will flat 10 all day, and then 8/10's are out there as well.
There is much more to becoming a better bowler, which will translate into higher scores, than buying the most hooking ball alive. Until people really feel like becoming better bowlers, this problem seems like it will continue to grow. There are so many physical adjustments that can be made to help a ball roll on anything that people don't seem to want to have to learn to get better. Versatility is the biggest tool in bowling and thinking that a new "hook monster" might be more important is ridiculous to me.
Now I am not one to shy away from a new nugget, but I work more on my game physically than I do with trying every ball I can to find the reaction I think i'll need.
If I have offended anyone on here, I am sorry that this post came at your expense, but it triggered alot of thinking that I have had about alot of things on this site and the sport of bowling in general. Questions and comments are welcomed and I feel comfortable with someone disagreeing with me and wanting to explain why I am wrong.
--------------------
-Larsen
http://members.bowl.com/FindAMember/memberView.aspx?ms=379&mp=5548&s=2005-2006
Edited on 3/25/2007 11:02 PM
Post by: mainzer on March 25, 2007, 11:07:42 PM
Fact 2: The ball dies because people like YOU do not know how to clean it properly, it must put in hot water every 20-30 games or the ball will lose reaction, also Brunswick's Rejuvinator is also a very good tool for cleaning an EPX they will bleed like a pig when these methods are used. The ONE line from Ebonite is dying faster than EPX's were once again why are you ridiculing Columbia why not Ebonite?
Now you have the facts If you want a ball that works in the juice and I do mean any volume of heavy oil you need to look no further than Columbia300 and the EPXt1!!
--------------------
Mainzerpower
Post by: Necromancer on March 25, 2007, 11:24:14 PM
quote:
Does anyone else see a problem with this topic besides myself?
I haven't posted on here in quite a while, just been busy with life and trying to get a career started. But, with a lot of topics in todays bowling world revolving about how much balls hook and how it has destroyed the game, this topic just brings it to the forefront.
Mr. Necromancer, it sounds to me as you are complaining that no ball will hook enough on this "flood" that you have bowled on, and you are now looking to purchase a new ball to tackle this. Do you expect a new ball to make your scores go up 100 sticks a set so you can get a check?
Throwing a sanded particle ball on any condition might help you control the lane a little better, but it also has downsides that will hurt your score. When you do get to the pocket, from your comfortable part of the lane, your ball will hit like doo. It might be a flood and you might not think it will be able to burn that much energy, but it will and you will flat 10 all day, and then 8/10's are out there as well.
There is much more to becoming a better bowler, which will translate into higher scores, than buying the most hooking ball alive. Until people really feel like becoming better bowlers, this problem seems like it will continue to grow. There are so many physical adjustments that can be made to help a ball roll on anything that people don't seem to want to have to learn to get better. Versatility is the biggest tool in bowling and thinking that a new "hook monster" might be more important is ridiculous to me.
Now I am not one to shy away from a new nugget, but I work more on my game physically than I do with trying every ball I can to find the reaction I think i'll need.
If I have offended anyone on here, I am sorry that this post came at your expense, but it triggered alot of thinking that I have had about alot of things on this site and the sport of bowling in general. Questions and comments are welcomed and I feel comfortable with someone disagreeing with me and wanting to explain why I am wrong.
--------------------
-Larsen
http://members.bowl.com/FindAMember/memberView.aspx?ms=379&mp=5548&s=2005-2006
Edited on 3/25/2007 11:02 PM
In a way you are right, but I think you don't understand my question. I was looking for a ball (if there is one) that actually will hook on a flood. I play on PBA tournament conditions and up to 50 feet plus of heavy oil (not the heavy so many manufacturer's claim to be heavy, but heavy in that no one either slow ball speeds or monster rev's can hook more than a few boards at most). These particle balls are primarily for these conditions I have learned. Because they are, doesn't mean they are the biggest hooking balls on THS condition or with lighter patterns. I am not looking for the biggest hooking ball but one that will react to a truly gutter to gutter 50 feet of flood. I am not looking to stand on the left gutter and hook out to the right, but to get a ball where it will just react and actually move (unlike all these reactives that don't do anything but go straight on these conditions by some of the best bowlers in the area). That is all.
EDIT: Also the reason why my topic suggested I don't think there is a ball that will move on a truly flooded shot. I will try one of the particle or epoxy balls as suggested.
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Storm Trauma ER
Storm Recharge
Ebonite Vortex Afterburner
Columbia 300 Messenger Ti
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Total Season Average: 205.642
2007 Year Average: 212.861
2007 Tournament Average: 161.167
The Vertigo is the best ball Storm ever made. Find one if you can.
I might have the strongest drilled Black Widow in history.
Edited on 3/25/2007 11:25 PM
Post by: NateNice on March 25, 2007, 11:32:07 PM
quote:
Nate Nice it is because of people like you that Columbia is out of buisness you are not in full possesion of the facts! and you have evidently never throwen and EPXt1 they are incredible, hooking power unmatched in the Sport of Bowling. Now to the facts: 1: The early batches cracked just like Ebonite One, and Storms Paradigm and Passion. Why do you single out Columbia for Ridicule on the cracking issue when two other companies gear were doing the same thing?
Fact 2: The ball dies because people like YOU do not know how to clean it properly, it must put in hot water every 20-30 games or the ball will lose reaction, also Brunswick's Rejuvinator is also a very good tool for cleaning an EPX they will bleed like a pig when these methods are used. The ONE line from Ebonite is dying faster than EPX's were once again why are you ridiculing Columbia why not Ebonite?
Now you have the facts If you want a ball that works in the juice and I do mean any volume of heavy oil you need to look no further than Columbia300 and the EPXt1!!
--------------------
Mainzerpower
Just reporting what I've heard. Word of mouth is a powerful tool.
I generally stick to Brunswick equipment. They haven't let me down and their equipment matches up with me very well. I do have a Columbia Scout I use for spares and very dry lanes. It's a good ball.
I've just heard from a lot of people that have used that ball that it was mainly a turd. If it hit anything that was resembling dryness, it burned up and rolled out on the spot. And as you pointed out, it required tons of maintenance.
If it works for you, more power to you. I believe it's apparent this ball didn't work for a lot of people.
Post by: Necromancer on March 25, 2007, 11:36:49 PM
quote:quote:
Nate Nice it is because of people like you that Columbia is out of buisness you are not in full possesion of the facts! and you have evidently never throwen and EPXt1 they are incredible, hooking power unmatched in the Sport of Bowling. Now to the facts: 1: The early batches cracked just like Ebonite One, and Storms Paradigm and Passion. Why do you single out Columbia for Ridicule on the cracking issue when two other companies gear were doing the same thing?
Fact 2: The ball dies because people like YOU do not know how to clean it properly, it must put in hot water every 20-30 games or the ball will lose reaction, also Brunswick's Rejuvinator is also a very good tool for cleaning an EPX they will bleed like a pig when these methods are used. The ONE line from Ebonite is dying faster than EPX's were once again why are you ridiculing Columbia why not Ebonite?
Now you have the facts If you want a ball that works in the juice and I do mean any volume of heavy oil you need to look no further than Columbia300 and the EPXt1!!
--------------------
Mainzerpower
Just reporting what I've heard. Word of mouth is a powerful tool.
I generally stick to Brunswick equipment. They haven't let me down and their equipment matches up with me very well. I do have a Columbia Scout I use for spares and very dry lanes. It's a good ball.
I've just heard from a lot of people that have used that ball that it was mainly a turd. If it hit anything that was resembling dryness, it burned up and rolled out on the spot. And as you pointed out, it required tons of maintenance.
If it works for you, more power to you. I believe it's apparent this ball didn't work for a lot of people.
What do you suggest for flood conditions then? Does the BVP Mammoth really work on a flood?
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Storm Trauma ER
Storm Recharge
Ebonite Vortex Afterburner
Columbia 300 Messenger Ti
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Total Season Average: 205.642
2007 Year Average: 212.861
2007 Tournament Average: 161.167
The Vertigo is the best ball Storm ever made. Find one if you can.
I might have the strongest drilled Black Widow in history.
Post by: UCFKnight300 on March 25, 2007, 11:37:16 PM
Also, I can gauruntee these balls do hook a bit, the current ones you and your fellow bowlers are using. When going left to right with the ball, it is more than likely not going dead straight for the entire length of the lane. Any movement away from its direct straight line of release is considered hooking, although it may seem to most that it is just getting back to being straight.
Playing straight through the front part of the lane will allow you to see your ball hook plenty.
--------------------
-Larsen
http://members.bowl.com/FindAMember/memberView.aspx?ms=379&mp=5548&s=2005-2006
Edited on 3/25/2007 11:38 PM
Edited on 3/25/2007 11:40 PM
Post by: NateNice on March 25, 2007, 11:37:59 PM
quote:
In a way you are right, but I think you don't understand my question. I was looking for a ball (if there is one) that actually will hook on a flood. I play on PBA tournament conditions and up to 50 feet plus of heavy oil (not the heavy so many manufacturer's claim to be heavy, but heavy in that no one either slow ball speeds or monster rev's can hook more than a few boards at most).
50' of oil? That's insanely long. I've never seen a shot that long. Must be rough. Is that like a 45' shot with some carry down or are they really oiling 50'? I'm all for a challenging shot (I never complain about the lanes), but 50' is simply unfair.
There is such a thing. In golf for instance, you could put the pin anywhere you want on the green, but you don't because certain placements are considered unfair. In bowling, a 50' shot, to me, is unfair.
I'd whip out my urethane and play a pointed shot, up and in.
Maybe play really, really deep and throw left of the center arrow with a breakpoint of 17 or so? Just play really inside...
I think the limit should be 45'. Maybe I'm a baby.
Post by: UCFKnight300 on March 25, 2007, 11:40:17 PM
--------------------
-Larsen
http://members.bowl.com/FindAMember/memberView.aspx?ms=379&mp=5548&s=2005-2006
Post by: NateNice on March 25, 2007, 11:40:23 PM
quote:quote:quote:
Nate Nice it is because of people like you that Columbia is out of buisness you are not in full possesion of the facts! and you have evidently never throwen and EPXt1 they are incredible, hooking power unmatched in the Sport of Bowling. Now to the facts: 1: The early batches cracked just like Ebonite One, and Storms Paradigm and Passion. Why do you single out Columbia for Ridicule on the cracking issue when two other companies gear were doing the same thing?
Fact 2: The ball dies because people like YOU do not know how to clean it properly, it must put in hot water every 20-30 games or the ball will lose reaction, also Brunswick's Rejuvinator is also a very good tool for cleaning an EPX they will bleed like a pig when these methods are used. The ONE line from Ebonite is dying faster than EPX's were once again why are you ridiculing Columbia why not Ebonite?
Now you have the facts If you want a ball that works in the juice and I do mean any volume of heavy oil you need to look no further than Columbia300 and the EPXt1!!
--------------------
Mainzerpower
Just reporting what I've heard. Word of mouth is a powerful tool.
I generally stick to Brunswick equipment. They haven't let me down and their equipment matches up with me very well. I do have a Columbia Scout I use for spares and very dry lanes. It's a good ball.
I've just heard from a lot of people that have used that ball that it was mainly a turd. If it hit anything that was resembling dryness, it burned up and rolled out on the spot. And as you pointed out, it required tons of maintenance.
If it works for you, more power to you. I believe it's apparent this ball didn't work for a lot of people.
What do you suggest for flood conditions then? Does the BVP Mammoth really work on a flood?
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Storm Trauma ER
Storm Recharge
Ebonite Vortex Afterburner
Columbia 300 Messenger Ti
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Total Season Average: 205.642
2007 Year Average: 212.861
2007 Tournament Average: 161.167
The Vertigo is the best ball Storm ever made. Find one if you can.
I might have the strongest drilled Black Widow in history.
Stop trying to hook the ball. You just can't on a 50' shot. It's hard enough on a 45' block. 50' is impossible unless you have insane revs and can even over power that kind of lane.
Play a urethane ball up and in, real nice. Take the oil out of the equation. Use it to your advantage really as missed shots with this type of ball are going to skid for you real nice.
Hell, play your favorite reactive ball up and in.
Post by: NateNice on March 25, 2007, 11:42:20 PM
quote:
watch the PBA next week if you've never seen 50 ft. although they will have burnt a nice spot in the lane and scores will more than likely be very high.
--------------------
-Larsen
http://members.bowl.com/FindAMember/memberView.aspx?ms=379&mp=5548&s=2005-2006
Looking forward to it then! That's crazy. I've really never heard of putting out a 50' shot. I know the PBA patterns only go up to 45', I believe.
10' of backend is rough.
It really gives an advantage to ultra high rev players. I expect the crankers to win, if they can stay accurate as they're the only ones getting any kind of angle.
Post by: Necromancer on March 25, 2007, 11:42:28 PM
quote:quote:
In a way you are right, but I think you don't understand my question. I was looking for a ball (if there is one) that actually will hook on a flood. I play on PBA tournament conditions and up to 50 feet plus of heavy oil (not the heavy so many manufacturer's claim to be heavy, but heavy in that no one either slow ball speeds or monster rev's can hook more than a few boards at most).
50' of oil? That's insanely long. I've never seen a shot that long. Must be rough. Is that like a 45' shot with some carry down or are they really oiling 50'? I'm all for a challenging shot (I never complain about the lanes), but 50' is simply unfair.
There is such a thing. In golf for instance, you could put the pin anywhere you want on the green, but you don't because certain placements are considered unfair. In bowling, a 50' shot, to me, is unfair.
I'd whip out my urethane and play a pointed shot, up and in.
Maybe play really, really deep and throw left of the center arrow with a breakpoint of 17 or so? Just play really inside...
I think the limit should be 45'. Maybe I'm a baby.
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Storm Trauma ER
Storm Recharge
Ebonite Vortex Afterburner
Columbia 300 Messenger Ti
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Total Season Average: 205.642
2007 Year Average: 212.861
2007 Tournament Average: 161.167
The Vertigo is the best ball Storm ever made. Find one if you can.
I might have the strongest drilled Black Widow in history.
Post by: NateNice on March 25, 2007, 11:46:15 PM
quote:
It is insanely long. That is why the top score is around 220 for the whole tournament. Bowling a 600 will have you in the cash bracket. With over 300 bowlers at the tournament and 200's rare, I know it is very hard. It was a Reverse Block pattern with very little room for error. It is just a very challenging tournament, wouldn't say unfair since everyone suffered. It benefits those that play a more direct shot regularly in their leagues. Bowling a 650 or so was what was required to make it to the top 32 finals. The prize fund was pretty nice too. $50 x 300+ bowlers = $15,000+quote:quote:
In a way you are right, but I think you don't understand my question. I was looking for a ball (if there is one) that actually will hook on a flood. I play on PBA tournament conditions and up to 50 feet plus of heavy oil (not the heavy so many manufacturer's claim to be heavy, but heavy in that no one either slow ball speeds or monster rev's can hook more than a few boards at most).
50' of oil? That's insanely long. I've never seen a shot that long. Must be rough. Is that like a 45' shot with some carry down or are they really oiling 50'? I'm all for a challenging shot (I never complain about the lanes), but 50' is simply unfair.
There is such a thing. In golf for instance, you could put the pin anywhere you want on the green, but you don't because certain placements are considered unfair. In bowling, a 50' shot, to me, is unfair.
I'd whip out my urethane and play a pointed shot, up and in.
Maybe play really, really deep and throw left of the center arrow with a breakpoint of 17 or so? Just play really inside...
I think the limit should be 45'. Maybe I'm a baby.
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Storm Trauma ER
Storm Recharge
Ebonite Vortex Afterburner
Columbia 300 Messenger Ti
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Total Season Average: 205.642
2007 Year Average: 212.861
2007 Tournament Average: 161.167
The Vertigo is the best ball Storm ever made. Find one if you can.
I might have the strongest drilled Black Widow in history.
I was in a similar one recently. I don't know the length as it wasn't posted, and we only got to roll one ball for practice so it was hard to tell from there, but I ended up using a urethane ball and playing right up. Just trying to keep my ball in play and leave easy spares.
This strategy worked well. Too bad I didn't start doing it until half way through the second game!
Post by: NateNice on March 25, 2007, 11:50:51 PM
Enter a ton of brackets and play for spares. Play right up the middle, allowing for a small easy hook by your urethane ball. You'll leave a lot of spares but you'll stay in play.
Convert your spares (oil shouldn't matter) and get close to your average (and beat it, you'd be surprised) and you'll beat most of the people who can't get anything going.
You won't win the tournament, but you'll probably make some cash.
And in this ones case, if breaking 600 gets you close, you might. If you're a great spare shooter, you'll get 200's if you stay clean and maybe get a double or a turkey.
It's a good strategy anyways. Don't be afraid to try something like that.
Post by: UCFKnight300 on March 25, 2007, 11:52:31 PM
Tell that to Steve Jaros who won this tournament 2 years ago on the same 50 ft. pattern. Oh how much you have to learn.
--------------------
-Larsen
http://members.bowl.com/FindAMember/memberView.aspx?ms=379&mp=5548&s=2005-2006
Post by: Necromancer on March 25, 2007, 11:53:07 PM
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Storm Trauma ER
Storm Recharge
Ebonite Vortex Afterburner
Columbia 300 Messenger Ti
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Total Season Average: 205.642
2007 Year Average: 212.861
2007 Tournament Average: 161.167
The Vertigo is the best ball Storm ever made. Find one if you can.
I might have the strongest drilled Black Widow in history.
Post by: NateNice on March 25, 2007, 11:58:30 PM
quote:
"It really gives an advantage to ultra high rev players. I expect the crankers to win, if they can stay accurate as they're the only ones getting any kind of angle."
Tell that to Steve Jaros who won this tournament 2 years ago on the same 50 ft. pattern. Oh how much you have to learn.
--------------------
-Larsen
http://members.bowl.com/FindAMember/memberView.aspx?ms=379&mp=5548&s=2005-2006
I did say "accurate" however.
I was just suggesting that a cranker whose as accurate as a stroker would have that advantage because of the extreme difference in entry angle.
Of course anyone can win. Jarros is a pro. He can beat anyone on any day on any condition.
But I believe a cranker that's as accurate as a stroker on these things has an innate advantage because the stroker will get no entry angle and the cranker will get some.
But you're right. I do have a lot to learn.
Post by: bowlingmytmouse on March 25, 2007, 11:59:48 PM
Like many others have stated, heavy oil balls do exist. However that does not mean that you are going to be able to swing the ball to 5 every shot and get it to recover, especially on sport conditions. I am not saying that you are looking for this type of hook, but you must realize that a heavy oil ball will give you a different type of roll and hook than most balls.
Think of it like this...
lane conditioner = snow
Ball = tire
Now take a racing slick that gives a great deal of traction with in contact with dry warm pavement(drier lanes) and throw that same tire on a snow covered road, whats gonna happen? Skid, or sliding. But take a snow tire on those same snow covered conditions and what do you get? Some traction. Now does that mean that you will be able to get as much traction with a snow tire on snow as a slick does on dry pavement? No, but it does give you something to work with
Secondly,
What type of shots are you playing on in your tourneys? The reason I ask is because there is a vast difference between your season avg and your tournament averages. And I wondering if that is due to you bowling on sport shots for the tournaments and house shots for others.
BMM
--------------------
Roto Grip forever!!!! What else is there??
Team Member Of
Hoss Central Inc.
Post by: The SuperHitMan on March 26, 2007, 12:03:56 AM
Like many others have stated, heavy oil balls do exist. However that does not mean that you are going to be able to swing the ball to 5 every shot and get it to recover, especially on sport conditions. I am not saying that you are looking for this type of hook, but you must realize that a heavy oil ball will give you a different type of roll and hook than most balls.
Think of it like this...
lane conditioner = snow
Ball = tire
Now take a racing slick that gives a great deal of traction with in contact with dry warm pavement(drier lanes) and throw that same tire on a snow covered road, whats gonna happen? Skid, or sliding. But take a snow tire on those same snow covered conditions and what do you get? Some traction. Now does that mean that you will be able to get as much traction with a snow tire on snow as a slick does on dry pavement? No, but it does give you something to work with
Secondly,
What type of shots are you playing on in your tourneys? The reason I ask is because there is a vast difference between your season avg and your tournament averages. And I wondering if that is due to you bowling on sport shots for the tournaments and house shots for others.
BMM
--------------------
Roto Grip forever!!!! What else is there??
Team Member Of
Hoss Central Inc.
UUUUUUUUNGH!!!! GREAT POINT YOUNG MAN!!!!!!
--------------------
Wayne Saunders: AH-HUUUUUHHHHH KACE YOU SHOT 300 AH-HUUUUHHHHHHHH!!!
Janeen Hall: Congratulations Baby.
Tommy B: I'm proud of you.....
Mike Hall: I yelled the last shot in there....
K.C. White II:
And I did it My Way Hooking the lane with a high-end piece, Take that Mr. Slater...I did it my way I got what I came for.---------------------
Team Member Of
Hoss Central Inc. Win
or go Home"Don't preach if you won't teach."-KDW
"You don't get a ring for bowling all spares
-KDW"I bowl for the tournament cashes/wins and I bowl for the honor score rings, but most importantly I bowl for the Love of the game"-KDW
Post by: Necromancer on March 26, 2007, 12:10:31 AM
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Storm Trauma ER
Storm Recharge
Ebonite Vortex Afterburner
Columbia 300 Messenger Ti
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Total Season Average: 205.642
2007 Year Average: 212.861
2007 Tournament Average: 161.167
The Vertigo is the best ball Storm ever made. Find one if you can.
I might have the strongest drilled Black Widow in history.
Post by: bowlingmytmouse on March 26, 2007, 12:26:25 AM
All I bowl on is sport patterns in both league and tournaments. Why? Because why bowl on in league what you won't see in tourneys. But thats just me, but when I get to a tourney I find that I am A LOT more comfortable beacuse its something that I have seen before.
And I Will let you know a secret. If you watch closely to when the PBA has the Shark pattern out and even the US OPEN pattern, look at what the players have in their hands...You rarely see all the hook monsters that were mentioned in this post. More often than none, they are strong reactive resins usually with a little polish on them and a layout with the "pin up". Why? because they want all the motoion on the backend, there is just too much oil in the middle to worry about midlane movement. I know that when I first started on long patterns I would get the biggest hooking ball I could find and it would go straight because I played the lanes wrong and the ball was drilled to rev early so in the backends there was no more energy left in the ball.
Now also look at the lines they play, really tight inside, almost on a rope to the 3 pin. You will never see them trying to play outside of 10, but for must 15 on real long oil.
Like I said, its going to take some adjusting to get used to the patterns. But don't do it with a ball purchase, start with your game first. Believe me, it works better that way
Sorry the post was so long, but I hope it helps.
BMM
--------------------
Roto Grip forever!!!! What else is there??
Team Member Of
Hoss Central Inc.
Post by: NateNice on March 26, 2007, 12:37:34 AM
quote:quote:quote:
watch the PBA next week if you've never seen 50 ft. although they will have burnt a nice spot in the lane and scores will more than likely be very high.
--------------------
-Larsen
http://members.bowl.com/FindAMember/memberView.aspx?ms=379&mp=5548&s=2005-2006
Looking forward to it then! That's crazy. I've really never heard of putting out a 50' shot. I know the PBA patterns only go up to 45', I believe.
10' of backend is rough.
It really gives an advantage to ultra high rev players. I expect the crankers to win, if they can stay accurate as they're the only ones getting any kind of angle.
Not true. A lower rev player pointing it off the corner is going to get as much if not more angle than if a cranker were to try and swing the ball. It's all about matching speed and revs to the pattern, not just trying to get "ultra high revs."
--------------------
http://www.BrunswickBowling.com
I'm officially a ball junkie
I never suggested to swing the ball. Why would someone do that? It would never come back.
I was talking about playing way inside, throwing left of the center arrow and breaking on about 18. There's no swing here. This is an inside shot all the way.
I wouldn't play it that way myself as I don't have enough practice trying to repeat that shot. But I've seen great success with it on very long (45'+ type) reverse block patterns. I'd break out the urethane and play as you suggested and play the spare game. But I have to be more accurate than those that can crank an inside shot like this. They'll skid until their breakpoint which is 8'- 13' in front of the 3 pin and the ball will recover enough to allow for some missed shots.
But there's more than one way to skin a cat. I think those that can do this get advantage. That's fine.
Edited on 3/26/2007 0:38 AM
Post by: NateNice on March 26, 2007, 12:43:22 AM
quote:quote:quote:quote:quote:
watch the PBA next week if you've never seen 50 ft. although they will have burnt a nice spot in the lane and scores will more than likely be very high.
--------------------
-Larsen
http://members.bowl.com/FindAMember/memberView.aspx?ms=379&mp=5548&s=2005-2006
Looking forward to it then! That's crazy. I've really never heard of putting out a 50' shot. I know the PBA patterns only go up to 45', I believe.
10' of backend is rough.
It really gives an advantage to ultra high rev players. I expect the crankers to win, if they can stay accurate as they're the only ones getting any kind of angle.
Not true. A lower rev player pointing it off the corner is going to get as much if not more angle than if a cranker were to try and swing the ball. It's all about matching speed and revs to the pattern, not just trying to get "ultra high revs."
--------------------
http://www.BrunswickBowling.com
I'm officially a ball junkie
I never suggested to swing the ball. Why would someone do that? It would never come back.
I was talking about playing way inside, throwing left of the center arrow and breaking on about 18. There's no swing here. This is an inside shot all the way.
I wouldn't play it that way myself as I don't have enough practice trying to repeat that shot. But I've seen great success with it on very long (45'+ type) reverse block patterns. I'd break out the urethane and play as you suggested and play the spare game.
If you are talking about purely angles, it is the same concept. If you are talking about a pattern that is long and slick (whichyou seem to be), that type of shot, even for a cranker, will still not generate as much "angle" as any bowler playing off of the corner.
--------------------
http://www.BrunswickBowling.com
I'm officially a ball junkie
Would you agree they would have a little more margin of error with that shot? Not to mention more power as the ball skidded all the way down where as the pointed corner shot rolled more and thus lost more energy.
Post by: Bowler19 on March 26, 2007, 12:47:30 AM
Quote
Obviously if there is 60 feet of oil, blocked across the entire lane, it's impossible for any material to hook. However, this is never the case./quote]
I have seen a 60ft pattern once in a tournament Qualifing round. But it was due to oiler malfunction. the Decks were actually oiled and had to be cleaned off. NOTHING HOOKED AT ALL. But I agree baring malfunctions this is never the case.
As far as true heavy oil balls Visionary's AMB Particle is pretty decent on a heavy flood.
--------------------
Bowler19
But be not afraid of greatness: some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them.-W. Shakespear
"Some are born great, some achieve greatness, other get it as a graduation present"
Robin Williams
Post by: NateNice on March 26, 2007, 12:50:45 AM
quote:QuoteObviously if there is 60 feet of oil, blocked across the entire lane, it's impossible for any material to hook. However, this is never the case./quote]
I have seen a 60ft pattern once in a tournament Qualifing round. But it was due to oiler malfunction. the Decks were actually oiled and had to be cleaned off. NOTHING HOOKED AT ALL. But I agree baring malfunctions this is never the case.
As far as true heavy oil balls Visionary's AMB Particle is pretty decent on a heavy flood.
--------------------
Bowler19
But be not afraid of greatness: some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them.-W. Shakespear
"Some are born great, some achieve greatness, other get it as a graduation present"
Robin Williams
Holy sh** that would be fun to bowl on!
I'd imagine oil got all over the pin deck and players started getting sliding pins all over the place.
Post by: Bowler19 on March 26, 2007, 01:03:26 AM
quote:quote:QuoteObviously if there is 60 feet of oil, blocked across the entire lane, it's impossible for any material to hook. However, this is never the case./quote]
I have seen a 60ft pattern once in a tournament Qualifing round. But it was due to oiler malfunction. the Decks were actually oiled and had to be cleaned off. NOTHING HOOKED AT ALL. But I agree baring malfunctions this is never the case.
As far as true heavy oil balls Visionary's AMB Particle is pretty decent on a heavy flood.
--------------------
Bowler19
But be not afraid of greatness: some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them.-W. Shakespear
"Some are born great, some achieve greatness, other get it as a graduation present"
Robin Williams
Holy sh** that would be fun to bowl on!
I'd imagine oil got all over the pin deck and players started getting sliding pins all over the place.
It was quite fun to watch I bowled on Fresh lanes after. as I was working the desk then and had was one of the people cleaning the decks off. You are right near the mid-end of the forth game the pins started to slide around noticeably.
--------------------
Bowler19
But be not afraid of greatness: some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them.-W. Shakespear
"Some are born great, some achieve greatness, other get it as a graduation present"
Robin Williams
Post by: xxZonexx on March 26, 2007, 06:22:05 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greensburgh open ?????
--------------------
PennState 2006-2010
Dynothane
Threshold 4 x 4
Inferno pin under 4x5
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah were you there? I had a good first game and then it all went downhill after that. Top score of the day was like 220. Saw a lot of gutter balls.
On the TNV, was mentioning it since a lot of people were using them and nailing the 3 pin frame after frame.
I was unaware there were true heavy oil balls in old Urethane balls. I will need to check out the Blue Hammer. I did see some Rhinos there and they hooked somewhat. But like the other balls, go past the 10 board on either side, 99% of the time the ball went into the gutter. I never threw a ball in the gutter today but did hit Brooklyn a lot. Having a handicap of 4 meant I need to hit 650 or so to get to finals. I obviously didn't. "
Haha, Well I WAS supposed to go buy my ball driller is a landscaper also and it being 63 here in Pittsburgh Pa, he went to work instead, and i wasnt going my self so i worked with him for the day.
--------------------
PennState 2006-2010
Dynothane
Threshold 4 x 4
Inferno pin under 4x5
Post by: MelvinBrunsTrack on March 26, 2007, 06:40:52 AM
Post by: Djarum on March 26, 2007, 08:54:25 AM
Dj
--------------------
The views and opinions of Djarum expressed on BallReviews.com do not necessarily state or reflect those of the BallReviews.com.
Post by: Fluff E Bunnie on March 26, 2007, 09:13:09 AM
--------------------
Thunderstruck $olid
Post by: bcw1969 on March 26, 2007, 09:16:24 AM
Brad
Post by: Martin710 on March 26, 2007, 09:17:19 AM
Post by: chrisleftwich on March 26, 2007, 09:34:19 AM
--------------------
Chris Leftwich
Active Duty Coast Guard member.
Just switched to all storm stuff and absolutely love the new R2S coverstock.
Post by: jbruno6 on March 26, 2007, 09:45:51 AM
Post by: Ragnar on March 26, 2007, 10:01:25 AM
Here's a trick for heavy oil: point more at the pocket, not away; slow it down, come up the back, hope for a bit of tilt at the pocket. Did you ever watch a snow tire accelerate on ice? IT spins.
--------------------
"I do desire that we may be better strangers." Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
"I'm capable of being just as sorry as you are, Dimitri."
Post by: michelle on March 26, 2007, 10:23:50 AM
There is certainly some aggressive particle equipment that has been marketed that will be of assistance in patterns like that, but it still comes down to release and roll...swinging the ball is usually not going to be in the equation, at least not early in the shift.
Post by: Fluff E Bunnie on March 26, 2007, 10:39:15 AM
quote:
Rags nailed part of the point I was going to make...too many people refuse to get out of the habit of trying to swing the ball even when confronted with the patterns being described.
But I MUST swing it coast to coast no matter what the lane is telling me!
--------------------
Thunderstruck $olid
Post by: jls on March 26, 2007, 11:32:45 AM
quote:
Nate Nice it is because of people like you that Columbia is out of buisness you are not in full possesion of the facts! and you have evidently never throwen and EPXt1 they are incredible, hooking power unmatched in the Sport of Bowling. Now to the facts: 1: The early batches cracked just like Ebonite One, and Storms Paradigm and Passion. Why do you single out Columbia for Ridicule on the cracking issue when two other companies gear were doing the same thing?
Fact 2: The ball dies because people like YOU do not know how to clean it properly, it must put in hot water every 20-30 games or the ball will lose reaction, also Brunswick's Rejuvinator is also a very good tool for cleaning an EPX they will bleed like a pig when these methods are used. The ONE line from Ebonite is dying faster than EPX's were once again why are you ridiculing Columbia why not Ebonite?
Now you have the facts If you want a ball that works in the juice and I do mean any volume of heavy oil you need to look no further than Columbia300 and the EPXt1!!
--------------------
Mainzerpower
since the epx came out, we had never had a customer bring one in that cracked untill about a month ago.
the customer who brought the cracked epx in, also brought in 2 new balls to be drilled.
an epx ti, and a epx a1.
kinda thinking he liked the ball.
--------------------
jls31316
Edited on 3/26/2007 11:33 AM
Post by: Strapper_Squared on March 26, 2007, 11:41:44 AM
S^2
--------------------
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Thank You... Only a Year Late (http://"http://www.newsday.com/sports/ny-spmnf26,0,1066554.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines")!
Post by: jls on March 26, 2007, 11:49:24 AM
quote:quote:
Rags nailed part of the point I was going to make...too many people refuse to get out of the habit of trying to swing the ball even when confronted with the patterns being described.
But I MUST swing it coast to coast no matter what the lane is telling me!
--------------------
Thunderstruck $olid
a few months ago i has several young bowlers in waiting to get there balls drilled. we had espn classic bowling on tv, { no womens golf that morning }
dick weber was bowling. straight as an arrow. these young guns could not stop laughing. plus they had no idea who he was.
now do you really think that todays young guns if and when they actually do hit oil, are go to slow it down and point it???
i don't think so!!!
actually had to flip the channel to a soap, just to get them to stop laughing.
--------------------
jls31316
Post by: Necromancer on March 26, 2007, 11:57:02 AM
quote:quote:
Nate Nice it is because of people like you that Columbia is out of buisness you are not in full possesion of the facts! and you have evidently never throwen and EPXt1 they are incredible, hooking power unmatched in the Sport of Bowling. Now to the facts: 1: The early batches cracked just like Ebonite One, and Storms Paradigm and Passion. Why do you single out Columbia for Ridicule on the cracking issue when two other companies gear were doing the same thing?
Fact 2: The ball dies because people like YOU do not know how to clean it properly, it must put in hot water every 20-30 games or the ball will lose reaction, also Brunswick's Rejuvinator is also a very good tool for cleaning an EPX they will bleed like a pig when these methods are used. The ONE line from Ebonite is dying faster than EPX's were once again why are you ridiculing Columbia why not Ebonite?
Now you have the facts If you want a ball that works in the juice and I do mean any volume of heavy oil you need to look no further than Columbia300 and the EPXt1!!
--------------------
Mainzerpower
since the epx came out, we had never had a customer bring one in that cracked untill about a month ago.
the customer who brought the cracked epx in, also brought in 2 new balls to be drilled.
an epx ti, and a epx a1.
kinda thinking he liked the ball.
--------------------
jls31316
Edited on 3/26/2007 11:33 AM
Man, I wished there weren't so many mixed opinions of this ball. I just don't want to start bowling with it and a few games in start seeing the coverstock crack all over the place. I really like the innovative idea of using Epoxy as a coverstock. I am tired of seeing all these reactives come out monthly it seems with different weight blocks in them. I believe reaction starts with the coverstock. I am really interested in the Epoxy and Particle coverstocks. Bowling ball companies need to invest time in creating new coverstocks and stop wasting time creating cores that, in the end, have very small influence on the reaction. From diamond cores to bombs, from 2-piece to 5-piece cores. Soon they will start making cores that resemble boots, axes, and middle fingers and say these balls are just so different. Come on guys, NEW COVERSTOCKS!
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Storm Trauma ER
Storm Recharge
Ebonite Vortex Afterburner
Columbia 300 Messenger Ti
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Total Season Average: 205.642
2007 Year Average: 212.861
2007 Tournament Average: 161.167
The Vertigo is the best ball Storm ever made. Find one if you can.
I might have the strongest drilled Black Widow in history.
Post by: splendorlex on March 26, 2007, 01:33:38 PM
If you're hooking at ANY spares in tourneys, your trouble is starting right there my friend. You MUST shoot straight at spares in unfamiliar and/or tough tourney conditions. There isn't that built in mistake room for hooking the ball at spares. Now, I'm not a great bowler. I only average about 180 on the THS. You know one of the reasons why? I started bowling tourney conditions at the SAME time as I started bowling leagues. I still haven't figured out how to throw to an area or use mistake room on the THS, but come tourney time my average is right about the same, give or take a couple of pins. I learned to play it straighter from the start, on strikes and spares, and this had made me a better tourney bowler than league bowler. Now, if only I could figure out how to use that WALL...
--------------------
Mr. Lebowski, this is Bill Salnicker with the Southern Cal Bowling League, and I just got a, an informal report, that a member of your team, uh, Walter Sobchak, drew a firearm during league play. If this is true of course, it contravenes a number of the league's by-laws, and article 27 of the league...
The Rev Zone (blog) http://ryanfinley.bowlspace.com/blog/
Post by: Fluff E Bunnie on March 26, 2007, 01:51:34 PM
quote:
a few months ago i has several young bowlers in waiting to get there balls drilled. we had espn classic bowling on tv, { no womens golf that morning }
dick weber was bowling. straight as an arrow. these young guns could not stop laughing. plus they had no idea who he was.
now do you really think that todays young guns if and when they actually do hit oil, are go to slow it down and point it???
i don't think so!!!
actually had to flip the channel to a soap, just to get them to stop laughing.
Hey that's fine with me... I bet a lot of people enjoy taking their money if they actually enter tournaments. Hopefully the young guns never change because I would like to take some of their money in the future.
--------------------
Thunderstruck $olid
Post by: Necromancer on March 26, 2007, 02:07:48 PM
quote:
by the way, my 585 is with NO handicap. it was 617 to cash in the top 64 and 637 to make it to the top 32 WITH handicap. The finals mostly consisted of bowlers who had really high handicap. also i only bowled one time, most of the people that made the finals bowled 2-4 times i heard.
--------------------
"I wish the ring had never come to me, I wish none of this had happened."
"So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you" - Frodo & Gandalf, LOTR:FOTR
Edited on 3/26/2007 1:42 PM
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Storm Trauma ER
Storm Recharge
Ebonite Vortex Afterburner
Columbia 300 Messenger Ti
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Total Season Average: 205.642
2007 Year Average: 212.861
2007 Tournament Average: 161.167
The Vertigo is the best ball Storm ever made. Find one if you can.
I might have the strongest drilled Black Widow in history.
Post by: toomanytenpins on March 26, 2007, 04:58:45 PM
--------------------
my style, the art of bowling without bowling
Post by: toomanytenpins on March 26, 2007, 04:59:26 PM
--------------------
my style, the art of bowling without bowling
Post by: LuckyLefty on March 26, 2007, 05:11:14 PM
Heavy oil but dry sides...the great low rg heavy load particles today and a few years ago are GREAT for that!
Reaction Roll, ARC, Scorcher, Pro Zone Azure, BVP Mammoth, Mayhem. Awesome. One can get feet in oil...aim out to dry and kill!
BUT for flat heavy oil...the solution I believe is method and selecting the right backend!
Method...ball down low...crowd the approach, walk slowly, look at the dots, point(crowd your mark with your feet).
I've used everything from a Pro Zone Azure to a shiny pearl Battle Zone bullet and had a lot of very good sets on the "Soup" of the day! Demolition Zones, Pro Zone Violet, BZ Bullets and Track Spells...have killed for me.
OFTEN Higher RG balls like the spell allow me to not have to belly the ball away from the pocket and encourage pointing! SWEET!
REgards,
Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: Eddie M on March 26, 2007, 06:03:07 PM
quote:quote:
You've never thrown the Yellow Angle
Yellow angle would skid 60 feet on todays surfaces
Give it a try, before you knock it. I have a Yellow Angle, and used it for a long time. And I guarantee it will work better in extreme oil conditions, than most modern equipment. At least if you have a clue how to throw it in those conditions.
Post by: Necromancer on March 26, 2007, 06:34:21 PM
quote:
wmb; wheres my bend
--------------------
my style, the art of bowling without bowling
Are you guys saying the ball sucks? I never had Morich equipment before so I am not supporting or against it. What is wrong with this ball now? First the EPX now the WMB? Is there not a particle ball that isn't crap?
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Storm Trauma ER
Storm Recharge
Ebonite Vortex Afterburner
Columbia 300 Messenger Ti
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Total Season Average: 205.642
2007 Year Average: 212.861
2007 Tournament Average: 161.167
The Vertigo is the best ball Storm ever made. Find one if you can.
I might have the strongest drilled Black Widow in history.
Post by: BrianCRX90 on March 26, 2007, 11:42:48 PM
quote:
Well resin balls were never really meant to be true heavy oil balls, without having at least some sort of backend to recover on.
Old school urethane balls like the Blue Hammer or Stringray will work better on those lane conditions than a resin ball will.
Oh bull. I'd like to see you score on a flat 38 foot shot on today's oil with a urethane. Good luck to that. Most reactives will outhook any urethane hands down no matter the condition.
Post by: NateNice on March 27, 2007, 12:03:55 AM
quote:quote:
Well resin balls were never really meant to be true heavy oil balls, without having at least some sort of backend to recover on.
Old school urethane balls like the Blue Hammer or Stringray will work better on those lane conditions than a resin ball will.
Oh bull. I'd like to see you score on a flat 38 foot shot on today's oil with a urethane. Good luck to that. Most reactives will outhook any urethane hands down no matter the condition.
A 38' shot leaves plenty of back end. A reactive should do fine on a 38' block.
I'd agree though that on a long shot with little back end, I'd play an inside shot with a breakpoint around 15 or so. Let the ball skid all the way to 45' or so and start to make a move around 52' and be able to come back 4 boards or so to smash the pocket.
Either that or I'd use a urethane ball and play outside and point it. Urethane is a lot smoother and more mild so it's easy to play a predictable shot this way.
Either approach will work, whatever is more comfortable.
Post by: Eddie M on March 27, 2007, 05:52:01 AM
quote:quote:
Well resin balls were never really meant to be true heavy oil balls, without having at least some sort of backend to recover on.
Old school urethane balls like the Blue Hammer or Stringray will work better on those lane conditions than a resin ball will.
Oh bull. I'd like to see you score on a flat 38 foot shot on today's oil with a urethane. Good luck to that. Most reactives will outhook any urethane hands down no matter the condition.
I never said a Urethane would outhook a modern resin ball on a 38' shot. But could I score with a Stingray or Blue Hammer on that shot? You better believe it. Will my ball look as impressive going down the lane? No. But if you believe it just won't work, you are kidding yourself.
I am sure everyone here agrees that a reactive ball needs some sort of backend, or it just isn't going to hook. I mean, that is the entire purpose of resin equipment. Resin covers were designed specifically to take advantage of the 15-25 feet of dry at the end of the lane. Why exactly do you think resin balls create so much angle in the last 10 feet of the lane? Dry boards. Now... take those dry boards away, and you have yourself a spare ball.
Now, if you have ever seen a heavy oil Urethane ball roll, you would notice it arches evenly the entire length of lane. The dry boards play a much smaller roll in the hook potential. Take those dry boards away, and you still have a ball capable of gaining some angle to the pocket even on extreme lengths of oil. While with a resin ball on the same shot, the only way you will ever create angle, is by lofting the gutter, and throwing it straight at the headpin.
Post by: Eddie M on March 27, 2007, 06:02:20 AM
quote:
UNLESS you slowed the ball way down and angled off the corner.
And how else would you play a lane condition as described above? Stand left, throw right? No ball will work that way in the described conditions. A Yellow Angle will indeed create that little bit of angle you need to carry. Throwing the exact line with a resin ball in those conditions, will get you no backend or angle to the pocket at all.
Now I am not trying to say Urethane balls are better than resin balls, but to argue a resin ball is gonna move at all on that condition is pointless. You know, I know, those people over there know, that resin balls aren't designed for that. On super long oil, Urethane is going to win in a battle of Resin vs Urethane. However a particle ball would be a better choice.
Post by: sheppy335 on March 27, 2007, 07:27:39 AM
--------------------
Oil is served Best with fingers!
Why does the 8 Pin laugh at me!
Sheppy
Post by: LuckyLefty on March 27, 2007, 09:10:16 AM
THIS is NOT a heavy oil ball. Most people who used it for that were disappointed.
THE Mayhem was better for that than the WMB.
BUT what the WMB was great for...and I mean really great was controlling a harsh wet dry shot. ALSO for some reason....it carried GREAT! I have seen this ball kill all over our area when used right! FOR harsh side to side wet/dry.
REgards,
Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: MrLS6chevelle on April 13, 2007, 09:06:07 PM
Second , I believe you may be right. When I go to the USBC national tourn. I have NO problems at all skidding the ball into the 3 pin. When the ball comes back it is covered in oil rings, flared about 7 inches. This ball normally hooks about 15 boards on THS. I am going to try a different drilling this year to get some reaction on the back ends.
Post by: on April 13, 2007, 09:14:14 PM
In the past year or two there have been some very strong reactive covers developed also, which have been quite effective in combating slick surfaces if their cover is maintained properly.
--------------------
notclay
Post by: Brandon Riley on April 14, 2007, 04:26:44 AM
--------------------
Brandon Riley
Post by: jls on April 14, 2007, 10:56:30 AM
but a ball with more surface will recover sooner then a polished ball.
if you were at a tournament and saw many nv's or tnv's skidding too far.
my guess is that they were to highly polished.
--------------------
jls31316
Post by: tst4eko on April 14, 2007, 12:48:30 PM
quote:
Back before and during the time resin balls became widely used, several ball manufacturers release some really good equipment that can be used even today for extreme oil conditions. Balls like the Blue Hammer from Faball, Stringray from Columbia, Crush from Ebonite, or the Yellow/Purple Angles, or Cobra from AMF, will all hook when a resin ball skids thru the deck. Just stand right, and throw them up the twig, and you will get an even arching look all day long.
I agree. A perfect example of this was with a good friend of mine. He and 4 other guys recently bowled the Tulsa City Tournament. One of his teammates used a Brunswick Phantom (gasp!) all three games. He shot 800 with it. My friend couldn't believe it. This guy dumped the ball up the 5 board and it walked into the pocket.
It just proves once again you don't need the latest and greatest ball in your hand to score big. As long as you know how to throw it.
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Current Arsenal:
Columbia Cuda 2000
Storm El Nino
Storm El Nino Wrath
Ebonite Maxim Spare Fireball
"I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose freewill." Rush - 'Freewill'
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