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Author Topic: Thinking about going to 5 step approach and 15 lb equipment…help!  (Read 2292 times)

rockerbowler18

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So, the title really says it all. I've been bowling 4 step approach basically all my life (since age 6...12 years total). I'm thinking about going to a 5 step approach even though my timing is fine.

Also, I'm thinking about going up to 15 lbs. I don't know, though. I've tried 15s and they just tire me out and they start to feel heavy after a few games.

I know that there's nobody out there throwing 14s on tour, and I know that 95% of them, if not all, have a 5 step approach.



What are your suggestions?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XG3r99S5PVQ

(I also have 1 more vid with clips of me from early 2007-now, so check that out too, if you’d like to see my ‘progress’)



On a separate note, I think some of my layouts are just duplications. I lay out some of my own stuff, but the pro shop operator tends to make his own little "suggestions" and I end up with a lot of balls being VERY similar. This is my current 12 ball arsenal (yes, they're all ebonite). Tell me what you think. BTW, these are all 14s, and would be tough to recreate this arsenal in 15s, which is also another part of the reason I've hesitated to go to 15s. :/ Really stuck here, as I'm super poor.


Infinite One – (Mass Bias drilled out in thumbhole) http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k116/rockerbowler18/InfiniteOneMBinThumbhole.jpg
Raid – http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k116/rockerbowler18/Raid.jpg
NVD – (Mismarked CG) http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k116/rockerbowler18/NVDMismarkedCG.jpg
Smash Time Solid – http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k116/rockerbowler18/SmashTimeSolid.jpg
Complete NV – http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k116/rockerbowler18/CompleteNV.jpg
Playmaker – http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k116/rockerbowler18/Playmaker.jpg
SR300 – http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k116/rockerbowler18/SR300.jpg
The One – http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k116/rockerbowler18/TheOne.jpg
Ice – http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k116/rockerbowler18/Ice.jpg
Bash gold/purple – http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k116/rockerbowler18/BashG-P.jpg
Tornado – (X-hole above Bridge) http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k116/rockerbowler18/TornadoX-holeaboveBridge.jpg
Maxim – http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k116/rockerbowler18/Maxim.jpg



If I were to go to 15s, what would you suggest I get to replace these efficiently? (meaning, a few used, some easier to find, fewer balls overall, etc…for example: maybe a used Total NV instead of The One because The One is harder to find and more expensive new than a TNV…Maybe not getting the SR300…etc…just your suggestions)
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SVstar34

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there are actually a few who throw 14's on tour, i dont remember who they were
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Jay

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Are you contemplating making both of these changes, as opposed to just one of them, to offset the speed changes?  Meaning, if you go to 5 steps now you might over throw your 14s and you'll throw the 15s too slow if you don't increase your steps?

For what it's worth I was throwing 14s for about 3 years, maybe 4.  I've now been throwing 15s for a little over a year and I'm honestly thinking about going back down.  The only thing that would stop me from making the switch at this point is I might flat 10 more.  It didn't really hit me for a while, but it did seem like 15s carried a little better for me, although that could have been a bad match up of equipment for me(Sorry to say but it was all ebonite , then again it could have been the weight because I had one ebonite in 15 that rolled great for me).  Even so, my average hasn't gotten much better anyways.

rockerbowler18

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quote:
Are you contemplating making both of these changes, as opposed to just one of them, to offset the speed changes?  Meaning, if you go to 5 steps now you might over throw your 14s and you'll throw the 15s too slow if you don't increase your steps?



Not necessarily to offset each other. I'm just saying that 15 lb'ers and 5 step approaches seem to be the general concensus of the pros in the biz and coaches in the biz...so I was thinking of doing these. I rarely, and when I say rarely, I mean 1 in 10-15 games, leave a flat 10. It's full ringing solid 10 or no 10 pin at all.
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J_Mac

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Just throw the damn ball...

Jay

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Oh okay.  I don't really see using 4 steps with 15s a problem.  I know Dan Belcher from this site uses 4 steps but I don't know what weight he throws, I'm pretty sure it's 15 or 16.  As for 10 pins, maybe they weren't flat and I just consider them such only because it wasn't high flush(although still clearly a pocket hit).  If I had to guess, I'd say I left maybe two extra 10 pins per set, not that significant.

rockerbowler18

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ttt, I know there are more suggestions for me out there...
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SVstar34

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I go 4 steps and throw 15's, i actually started out at 5 steps with 14's before i switched to 15's... after i switched to 15's, i went to 4 steps to get better timing, but that was just me
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Blue Vibe(5 x 5 4000 Abralon + Reacta Shine)


los2003

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I don't see a problem with what you are thinking about doing.. The weight move might take some time to get used to because you don't look like your the strongest guy in the world or anything..But once you get your timing right with 5 steps you will be ok.. MY question is are you doing this just because it's more common or do you think both changes will help your game??

Dan Belcher

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quote:
Oh okay.  I don't really see using 4 steps with 15s a problem.  I know Dan Belcher from this site uses 4 steps but I don't know what weight he throws, I'm pretty sure it's 15 or 16.  As for 10 pins, maybe they weren't flat and I just consider them such only because it wasn't high flush(although still clearly a pocket hit).  If I had to guess, I'd say I left maybe two extra 10 pins per set, not that significant.
Didn't expect my name to show up randomly in this thread, but there it is.  

Yes, I do use a four-step approach, and yes I throw 15lb equipment.  And actually I have been actively working on slowing down my ball speed (it was around 17-17.5mph on the Qubica measurement system, now it's down to 15.75 - 16.5 usually), since I tend to force it a bit in my downswing, which makes the flat spot at the bottom of my swing too small.  And for what it's worth, I plugged and redrilled a 16lb ball a few weeks ago for the hell of it, I found an ancient Nuline Excaliber in my buddy's basement.  Hate the reaction, but also am not terribly fond of the heavier weight.  My ball speed didn't change as much as I anticipated, but I definately felt the extra weight and didn't like it.

Now looking at your video, rockerbowler18, I think you would feel a little more comfortable if you started your pushaway sooner, and also made your transition from the power step to the slide step quicker.  You're slowing your feet down a ton there waiting on the ball to come down from the top of the backswing.  Then you're compensating some by really accelerating your arm at the bottom of the swing through the follow-through to get extra speed and revs.  Switching to a five step approach might help you accomplish this, it might not.  I don't know.  I've tried using five steps before and just hated the way it felt and never could get comfortable with it, so I'm not the best judge of that.  

rockerbowler18

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Re: Thinking about going to 5 step approach and 15 lb equipment…help!
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2009, 02:02:54 PM »
quote:
quote:
Oh okay.  I don't really see using 4 steps with 15s a problem.  I know Dan Belcher from this site uses 4 steps but I don't know what weight he throws, I'm pretty sure it's 15 or 16.  As for 10 pins, maybe they weren't flat and I just consider them such only because it wasn't high flush(although still clearly a pocket hit).  If I had to guess, I'd say I left maybe two extra 10 pins per set, not that significant.
Didn't expect my name to show up randomly in this thread, but there it is.  

Yes, I do use a four-step approach, and yes I throw 15lb equipment.  And actually I have been actively working on slowing down my ball speed (it was around 17-17.5mph on the Qubica measurement system, now it's down to 15.75 - 16.5 usually), since I tend to force it a bit in my downswing, which makes the flat spot at the bottom of my swing too small.  And for what it's worth, I plugged and redrilled a 16lb ball a few weeks ago for the hell of it, I found an ancient Nuline Excaliber in my buddy's basement.  Hate the reaction, but also am not terribly fond of the heavier weight.  My ball speed didn't change as much as I anticipated, but I definately felt the extra weight and didn't like it.

Now looking at your video, rockerbowler18, I think you would feel a little more comfortable if you started your pushaway sooner, and also made your transition from the power step to the slide step quicker.  You're slowing your feet down a ton there waiting on the ball to come down from the top of the backswing.  Then you're compensating some by really accelerating your arm at the bottom of the swing through the follow-through to get extra speed and revs.  Switching to a five step approach might help you accomplish this, it might not.  I don't know.  I've tried using five steps before and just hated the way it felt and never could get comfortable with it, so I'm not the best judge of that.  



I feel the same way about 5 steps. I have tried it before and struggled to get comfortable.

As far as my timing is concerned, I have spoken and taken lessons from (Speaking of which, I need to call him for a follow up lesson.) Mark Baker. He thinks that my timing is just fine, but agrees with the pulling the ball down, aspect, where I wait and then pull the ball through for speed and revs.

I don't necessarily think that either of these changes will 'help' my game. I'm just hoping, because I can't see anything specific most days, but I seem to be "behind the pack" as a general rule. I was thinking that maybe by "stepping up my game" to what the pros do, it would help me. I don't know, though. My thinking behind the decision is something to the effect of: "Everyone out there who's really successful is a 5 or 6 step approach with 15 lb. equipment. There must be something to it, or they'd all be 4 stepping and 14 lb'ing like me."
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JohnP

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Re: Thinking about going to 5 step approach and 15 lb equipment…help!
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2009, 02:57:29 PM »
Your approach doesn't look that bad to me, the one thing I see is that you are very upright at the foul line with essentially no knee bend.  If you want to make the two changes, I would not suggest doing them both at the same time.  I would try the five step approach first, because it doesn't cost anything but practice.  When you've either given up on that or embraced the change, then think about changing ball weight.  When you go to five steps, just remember that the ball doesn't move into its swing until the second step begins.  Begin with a very small first step, more of a slide than a step.  --  JohnP

Strider

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Re: Thinking about going to 5 step approach and 15 lb equipment…help!
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2009, 05:49:43 PM »
If you throw 14 well and 15 tires you out, 14 is right for YOU.  Maybe as you get older/stronger/heavier, 15 might be better.  Even if you want to pro, don't worry about what they do.  14, 15, and 16 pounds all hit very well.  Jason Couch is one that used to throw 14# if that matters.

Nothing wrong with trying a 5 step approach to see how it feels or to have another choice available, but if 4 steps is working for you, why change?  Again, don't worry about how many steps the pros take.  There are a lot of guys who don't use 5, but again, it's what works for you.

If I didn't have so much equipment I like (and some that would be very hard to replace), I'd be very tempted to switch to 14#.
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Dan Belcher

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Re: Thinking about going to 5 step approach and 15 lb equipment…help!
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2009, 06:00:44 PM »
quote:
As far as my timing is concerned, I have spoken and taken lessons from (Speaking of which, I need to call him for a follow up lesson.) Mark Baker. He thinks that my timing is just fine, but agrees with the pulling the ball down, aspect, where I wait and then pull the ball through for speed and revs.
Timing is an oddball thing in bowling.  Your timing IS essentially fine.  You are on-balance throughout the shot, and that's the most important aspect of your timing.  My suggestion was meant to be the way to fix the part where you pull the ball down through the bottom of the swing for speed and revs.  Usually to fix one aspect of your approach, you have to fix whatever precedes it, if that makes any sense.  I was just suggesting one way to reduce that little speed boost at the bottom, since your swing timing would change to the point where you wouldn't be able to do that and still feel balanced.

rockerbowler18

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Re: Thinking about going to 5 step approach and 15 lb equipment…help!
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2009, 06:27:05 PM »
Ah, I see what you're saying now, Dan.

That is one of the things that both Mark Baker and Joe Slowinski have worked with me on: pulling the ball down from the height of the backswing. It creates my flat spot in the wrong place, rather than right at the bottom as I release.
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