Author Topic: Thinking about trying 2 hand (Read 2685 times)

Bahshay · « **on:** March 20, 2011, 11:27:40 PM »

Hi everyone:

I'm considering trying out 2 handed over the course of the summer. Fall leagues are ending soon, and I am only bowling in one summer league with some family members (aka: no prize/fun league). Theres a lot of reasons I have convinced myself to try this, but deep down, the real reason is the belief that I have peaked. I practice a ton, work with a very good coach, upgraded to newer equipment, reworked my grip, yadda yadda yadda. I still average 200-205 in every league for the last 5 years. So I am considering trying something new, not just to see if it can take me to another level, but also to bring back some of the fun that has been fading since the realization that I'm not improving any further. I'm a young guy in my low 20s, no better time to try 2 handed than now.

I know the 2 hand experiment is becoming more popular lately, so my question is out to those that have tried the switch:

1. What were your experiences?

2. Any videos I should watch to explain the proper technique better?

se7en · « **Reply #1 on:** March 21, 2011, 08:01:28 AM »

I gave it an honest try over the last couple of months. Some things you'll want to consider..

You're going to be using muscle groups that you don't use conventionally. Expect to be sore after the first couple sessions. It's no different than lifting weights after not lifting for a long period of time. Just don't make the mistake of chalking it up to bad form or anything. It's a lot of torque on your upper body. You'll have to deal with that at first, and then it will go away and stop bothering you after those muscle groups get worked out. For me is was my left shoulder and right bicep that suffered the most.

You may want to consider picking up a weak ball if you don't already have one. You're going to find that your rev rate will increase dramatically, but you can't get a matching ball speed. It's not easy to generate ball speed two-handed. You'll want to work on strengthening your legs. Power is generated from the legs and follow through with this style. There's no help from gravity like a one-handed style gets. I was only able to increase ball speed by moving to the line faster, adding a hop to the slide step (Osku and Belmo both demonstrate this technique well) and coming through the ball firm. Even then, I was only about 60-70% of where I needed to be. This was the hardest part to figure out for me and I still haven't gotten it pegged.

Where your hand is at the release is going to dictate success or failure in my opinion. Unlike one-handed, I believe that you don't have a whole lot of versatility in the release. (there's a video of Belmo with a 2-handed project bowler explaining that he gets a different release by changing where his LEFT hand is positioned -- I don't really understand it though). A one-handed bowler can come around the side of the ball and get by just fine, but if you do that with a two-handed release, it's going to be really rough. The ball will roll out extremely early and create a > shaped hook rather than a nice smooth arc or even a hockey stick shape with skid/flip. It's just not going to cut it when it goes 30 feet and just points to the pins and goes straight.

Watch Osku in slow motion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDLNdKJFQrc

Note that his fingers are inside of the ball closer to his leg. His arm is angled towards his feet to achieve this. The most common mistake I see, and one I personally dealt with was having the arm hinge straight down from the shoulder, forcing the bowler to come around the outside of it.

There's a ton of videos on YouTube. What is right or wrong, good or bad is a mystery to me since the style isn't really aged. Just search around and watch anything you can find, and then experiment.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is nothing so easy to learn as experience and nothing so hard to apply

Edited by se7en on 3/21/2011 at 8:06 AM

Russell · « **Reply #2 on:** March 21, 2011, 09:06:56 AM »

You need to ask yourself and honest question:

"Am I an athletic person?"

If the answer is "not really"...you should pass. It's an extremely athletic motion that requires a ton of balance and core stability. I see lots of mediocre athletes throwing it 2 handed now averaging 190 and looking like a mentally handicapped gorilla going to the line...arms and legs flailing everywhere and no control over any of it.

If you're a good athlete....then you can generate the enormous power and have the balance to control it.

Good luck!

Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

Zanatos1914 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 21, 2011, 12:33:27 PM »

I understand your frustration because I am max out as well... I can push a high avg but I doubt that I will ever win a tournament with a 200 + avg.. I am above avg but not high enough to be one of the elite bowlers..

You will need to get your body in shape for that style of bowling because it s very physical. The ball drills will need to change because of all the revs you will be putting on the ball..

Good Luck

2 Fingers 4 Life
I Am The 3 Fingers Nightmare

bullred · « **Reply #4 on:** March 21, 2011, 10:19:30 PM »

Another side of "two handed" bowling. We had a young man (200+ average) decided to try to learn to bowl two handed after a couple of regionals, when he couldn't wrinkle the ball. He was lean, lithe, able to handle the different "contortions" to throw the ball two handed.

His success was almost instant.. A lot of revs, pin mixing. But the kicker was, he couldn't throw anything but plastic on THS. Anything but plastic and he couldn't get the ball to the pins. To be honest, his two handed release was as a "stroker" with many revs. He tried, but couldn't generate enough speed to handle the two handed release with anything but plastic. With plastic, even the two handed method still requires a more accurate hit on the pins. NO area.

A requirement for the two handed release is SPEED. If you cannot generate a speed to match the revs, forget about it

rdw · « **Reply #5 on:** March 22, 2011, 01:29:25 AM »

If you want to give it a try here are my experiences. First I can average 200 one handed on THS but that's about it. I throw very few revs and struggle when I have to play deeper than third arrow. I am older (50) and weak and have a bad knee. But still I wanted to try and bowl two handed because to me it would be a nice way to increase my rev rate. One handed I guess my rev rate is somewhere between 200-225. You better be in shape because your back, legs, wrist will be sore. I even hurt my ribs from all the twisting. That being said, I am no where near the bowler two handed than I am one handed. I average 180 on THS only because I throw plastic. Throwing resin I probably average 160. As everyone will tell you, the most important requirement in bowling two handed successfully is the ability to generate speed. Every successful two handed bowler I've seen is in excess of 18 mph.

I've been bowling two handed for about 18 months and enjoy it because it allows me to play different lines than I ever could. I can create a lot of area (and I need it because your accuracy will suffer) to this day I still throw the occasional gutter ball. So for me, it is almost a different game, and I enjoy it because it's fun, but I doubt that it will ever improve my average.

Good luck!

c-hop · « **Reply #6 on:** March 23, 2011, 07:21:21 AM »

I made the switch and I'm never looking back. I was a pretty solid one handed bowler avged 215 in two different houses and shot a few honor scores. I was a power player but got stuck in "Tweener Hell" quite frequently. I really felt like I peaked at the end of my first season of Adult Leagues. My arm swing was always my weak part of my game too controlled and looped behind my back in the backswing. I made the decision at the end of last season to start working on two handed and really picked it up quick. I always messed around with the no thumb release so it felt quite natrual. It was just a long process of finding out what does and doesnt work. Here is things you have to figure out

- Left hand posistion

- TIMING

- Tempo

Your left hand truely does act as your thumb but for me unlike Belmo he says he takes his left hand off the ball before release I use my left hand to pretty much emphasize the motion of the release. Dont let your swing pop out keep it real tight to your body and make sure you keep open to stay inside the ball. Timing is the hardest thing to get use too. You really gotta keep your feet quick to keep your ball speed up with the added revs. I started around the upper 14's mph eventually built up to 15mph's and now my avg speed is around 16-17 depending on condition ( My center reads mph at the pin deck too so prob reads a bit on the slower side). One thing I have prob with though is throwing sanded equipment. Since I load up my wrist and rest the ball on my right fore arm the ball tends to slip off in my swing and I loose a bit of control. I havnt really found a product or method that works just good old saliva on the fore arm every other shot too keep it sticky lol not the most sanitary but it works.

Now for the FIGJAM part of this segment. #'s dont lie

One handed Avg for 2009-2010

209 and 212 with 1 800

2010-2011

Currently 227 and 221

4 300's so far No 8's but about a dozen or so sets of 750+ High is 794.

So dont be afraid to try it Ive became so much more consistant and pin carry has increased soo much. GOOD LUCK if you have any questions feel free to pm me.

Chris

stormbowling300 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 27, 2011, 09:58:01 AM »

Definately invest in some of the under armour football receiver gloves.They give you lots of grip.I have a friend that averages 235 two handed.

RyanRPS · « **Reply #8 on:** March 27, 2011, 12:27:00 PM »

Guys that have changed from 1 handed to 2 handed and saw a big increase in average... is the increase mainly on THS's due to increase pin carry, or do you feel you can be even AS accurate with this method? Has it improved your sport bowling average?

I've tried it a bunch of times over the years, and while my form isnt bad, as somone mentioned before it's hard to generate speed if your not in peak physical condition (which im not lol), and I could barely get the ball to the pins! Also, I couldnt be accurate at all.. it doesnt seem as natural to me having bowled 1 handed for 15 years..

Ryan Press - Seismic Staff Member
www.seismicbowling.com

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 27, 2011, 01:48:36 PM »

You need to ask yourself and honest question:

"Am I an athletic person?"

Doesn't that apply to any sport now matter how your throw the ball? If your not coordinated or athletic your probably not going to be fantastic at bowling or most other activities.

If your average is stuck at 200-205 then there may be a reason. I'm guessing by going to two handed bowling your suggesting the reason is lack of revs? I would guess it is lack of ability to repeat shots and possibly spare shooting. More revs means more area, but doesn't guarantee carry. You will still need to make spares, and likely may start running into more splits as well. Just something to consider.

Be good, or be good at it.

Russell · « **Reply #10 on:** March 27, 2011, 01:53:34 PM »

No in bowling you can be quasi-athletic and have good hand eye coordination (Walter Ray, Norm Duke, and many others). The athletes are the ones that hook the snot out of it anyways. 2-handed involves a lot more of the body than a conventional approach.

Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 27, 2011, 02:37:24 PM »

So if two handed is more athletic then one handed why wouldn't a two handed bowler be able to dominate the sport one handed since it is less athletic? If you average 200-205 the less athletic way why would you want to try something "more athletic" if you've not been able to do the "less athletic" way?

I know many non-athletic bowlers that hook the ball.

Russell wrote on 3/27/2011 1:53 PM:
No in bowling you can be quasi-athletic and have good hand eye coordination (Walter Ray, Norm Duke, and many others). The athletes are the ones that hook the snot out of it anyways. 2-handed involves a lot more of the body than a conventional approach.

Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

Be good, or be good at it.

RyanRPS · « **Reply #12 on:** March 27, 2011, 05:10:50 PM »

Kidlost I dont think he meant that if you were "athletic" enough to play two handed then bowling the "less athletic" way would be easier..it doesnt really translate that way... being athletic will allow you to get your body into a position 2 handed to generate more speed and revs... you would still need to be accurate though to be able to score well this way

Ryan Press - Seismic Staff Member
www.seismicbowling.com

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 28, 2011, 10:21:46 AM »

I was just trying to see what his response would be. From what I have seen two handed would be a much harder style of bowling that you likely would not be able to maintain later in life. My other point is that more revs doesn't mean higher scores.

In bowling, like baseball from the roid era. "Chicks dig the long ball" and now it is all about maximum revolutions. You see it a lot with younger bowlers as well. There game and form is centered around getting as many revs as possible and in many cases sacrifice a lot of other things to do it. This gives good results on some conditions but on many others not so much.

RyanRPS wrote on 3/27/2011 5:10 PM:Kidlost I dont think he meant that if you were "athletic" enough to play two handed then bowling the "less athletic" way would be easier..it doesnt really translate that way... being athletic will allow you to get your body into a position 2 handed to generate more speed and revs... you would still need to be accurate though to be able to score well this way

Ryan Press - Seismic Staff Member
www.seismicbowling.com

Be good, or be good at it.

Russell · « **Reply #14 on:** March 28, 2011, 10:40:58 AM »

I have been around the game for a while and have yet to see someone who doesn't have good natural athleticism hook the ball PROPERLY. Yes there are people that crowbar the crap out of it and throw it in the floor....but they are as you said "sacrificing other things" to do it.

The two handed release just takes this a step further. If you're going to get the huge increase in revrate, you had better have the increase in speed that comes with it. I see people throwing it two handed now that are not athletic, and they look TERRIBLE going to the line. One guy in a mixed league is doing it and he throws the ball 14mph. The only ball he can keep right of the head pin is a REALLY DEAD Raw Hammer.

I know a lot of 2 handers...good and bad. The one common thread is the good ones are pretty solid athletes, and the bad ones are not.

If someone wants to kid themselves into thinking 2 handed is something magical...go ahead. Have fun looking like a retarded camel on the way to the line.

Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

Author Topic: Thinking about trying 2 hand (Read 2685 times)

Bahshay

Thinking about trying 2 hand

se7en

Re: Thinking about trying 2 hand

Russell

Re: Thinking about trying 2 hand

Zanatos1914

Re: Thinking about trying 2 hand

bullred

Re: Thinking about trying 2 hand

rdw

Re: Thinking about trying 2 hand

c-hop

Re: Thinking about trying 2 hand

stormbowling300

Re: Thinking about trying 2 hand

RyanRPS

Re: Thinking about trying 2 hand

kidlost2000

Re: Thinking about trying 2 hand

Russell

Re: Thinking about trying 2 hand

kidlost2000

Re: Thinking about trying 2 hand

RyanRPS

Re: Thinking about trying 2 hand

kidlost2000

Re: Thinking about trying 2 hand

Russell

Re: Thinking about trying 2 hand