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Author Topic: Thoughts/feelings on PBA Experience/Sport League  (Read 3812 times)

Sir Bowl-A-Lot

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Thoughts/feelings on PBA Experience/Sport League
« on: April 07, 2009, 12:28:42 AM »
My local house is thinking about changing our current Tuesday Men's League (which is standard USBC sanctioned) to a USBC PBA Experience/Sport League.  However, they are not going to certify the lanes so that it is a true PBA Experience/Sport League (therefore, one cannot qualify for the special awards).  Instead they will just use the PBA oil patterns versus the typical house shot.  What are your thoughts and feelings about them doing this?

Edited on 4/7/2009 8:30 AM
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azguy

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Re: Thoughts/feelings on PBA Experience/Sport League
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2009, 08:36:24 AM »
Our house has done that, a few times during this season. Problem with what we have had, the times they did it it was a mixed league. One of them is more beginners than 'hard core' bowlers. The other is about 50/50. No one said anything about it just did it so it was a shock.

The sunday league goes after the sports league and no matter what they do, for half the league, it's bowling on top of the sports shot and the rest is house pattern. It's always different to try to figure out what lanes they used and what lanes were not. Made for some crappy scores/shots while the other half was doing OK. Thank goodness the sports league is done for the year so we can have just out normal length (42') and not some 38, 40 or what ever is the shot for the week.

We have not enjoyed it much. Good luck to ya.
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tst4eko

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Re: Thoughts/feelings on PBA Experience/Sport League
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2009, 09:27:47 AM »
Three years ago, I signed up for the Sport Card as soon as I heard about it. But no centers in my area did a sport shot league all that season. So next year I went back to the regular card, only to find out that one center decided to do a sanctioned sport shot league, but it was only during the summer. Those who joined had to pay the Sport Card upgrade. I didn't see the benefit of paying the extra fees just to bowl on sport shots for 12 weeks. My teammate bowled it last summer and said it was a waste of money.

This year, however, that same center decided to do the sport shot league again, but leave it unsanctioned so youths, as well as adults, can bowl. All we'll pay is straight lineage ($11.50/wk) with no prize fund. I thought this was a great idea, so this time I decided to join and will start June 1.

If more centers in my area did sport leagues, and even had a 36-week sport league, then I can justify paying the extra sport sanctions. I guess the sport leagues aren't that popular in my area.
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Krakken

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Re: Thoughts/feelings on PBA Experience/Sport League
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2009, 09:50:34 AM »
If they aren't going to certify it in the PBA X program then don't certify it with the USBC at all.  Not fair to other bowlers, as it will lead to lower averages, and if they use that average to bowl in a tournament, then it is cheating in my opinion.

This is where the USBC and PBA need to step in and say if you use a PBA/SPort pattern, it has to be certified as a Sport league.
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Sir Bowl-A-Lot

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Re: Thoughts/feelings on PBA Experience/Sport League
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2009, 10:14:16 AM »
What were the patterns they put down for the shots?  Did they make it a scratch league?
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tst4eko

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Re: Thoughts/feelings on PBA Experience/Sport League
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2009, 10:29:06 AM »
quote:
If they aren't going to certify it in the PBA X program then don't certify it with the USBC at all.  Not fair to other bowlers, as it will lead to lower averages, and if they use that average to bowl in a tournament, then it is cheating in my opinion.

This is where the USBC and PBA need to step in and say if you use a PBA/SPort pattern, it has to be certified as a Sport league.


I don't know of any tournament, sanctioned or not, that uses averages from an unsanctioned league. If they do, then there's something wrong with that tourney, and I certainly wouldn't bowl it. The one's I've participated, or thought about participating, clearly state in their rules to use USBC sanctioned averages, or bowl scratch.

As far as the league being certified in order to use Sport shots, I agree to an extent. Why pay a sport sanction for the whole year when PBAX leagues are only during the summer, or in limited areas/centers? Some towns have sport leagues year round. But not in the Tulsa, OK area, where I live. Riverlanes has been the only center in all of eastern Oklahoma with a summer sport league for the past three yrs. With that limited availability, it's no surprise no one around here wants to pay the extra sport sanction. Which is why Riverlanes decided to make it unsanctioned this summer.

Like I said, it's just not catching on in my neck of the woods.
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cheech

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Re: Thoughts/feelings on PBA Experience/Sport League
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2009, 10:40:28 AM »
i dont see why people are complaining that PBA leagues distort averages for tournaments. if your good enough for sport/PBA leagues than your probably good enough for scratch tournaments on house shots. if your doing handicapped tournament on sport shots than your average is accurate.
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leftyinsnellville

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Re: Thoughts/feelings on PBA Experience/Sport League
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2009, 10:46:11 AM »
quote:
i dont see why people are complaining that PBA leagues distort averages for tournaments. if your good enough for sport/PBA leagues than your probably good enough for scratch tournaments on house shots. if your doing handicapped tournament on sport shots than your average is accurate.


Most would still complain because their higher-average/lower-handicap would not be accurate on a sport condition, giving the person with an accurate sport condition handicap an advantage.
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MI 2 AZ

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Re: Thoughts/feelings on PBA Experience/Sport League
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2009, 07:12:34 PM »
quote:
i dont see why people are complaining that PBA leagues distort averages for tournaments. if your good enough for sport/PBA leagues than your probably good enough for scratch tournaments on house shots.


I don't know how it is at other centers/areas, but at our house, most of the bowlers in the sport/PBA Exp league are below scratch average.  Out of 18 bowlers, only four are 200+ on THS.  If the sport league was going to be only for 200+ average bowlers, we would never have a sport league because most of them do not want to see their average below 200 and we wouldn't have enough bowlers to field a league.

Many bowlers of all average ability bowl in a sport league because it gives them instant feedback of any errant shots they make, unlike THS which sometimes rewards bowlers for bad shots.  With this feedback, they can work on trying to be more consistant more often (repeatability) and that will hopefully help them to become better at their game.  

Others know that the lanes will be more difficult but they want the challenge of having to play different lines/releases/ball choices other than what they are used to using, in order to keep the ball in play and finding out how important a good spare game can be when it is that much more difficult to string strikes.




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MI 2 AZ

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Re: Thoughts/feelings on PBA Experience/Sport League
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2009, 07:20:32 PM »
quote:
The sunday league goes after the sports league and no matter what they do, for half the league, it's bowling on top of the sports shot and the rest is house pattern. It's always different to try to figure out what lanes they used and what lanes were not. Made for some crappy scores/shots while the other half was doing OK. Thank goodness the sports league is done for the year so we can have just out normal length (42') and not some 38, 40 or what ever is the shot for the week.


Roger,

I know you were having some problems with the sport pattern staying on the lanes, but they were rerunning the lanes just before your league so it should have been a clean fresh condition for you.  I know that the house had the association come in and inspect the lanes after rerunning them to see if the backends were clean and supposedly they were, in fact they have the results of that lane inspection posted on one of the bulletin boards near the counter.  I don't bowl in your Sunday league so I am only going on what I am overhearing at the center.  

Sorry to hear that you are still having a problem with the lanes.


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Atochabsh

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Re: Thoughts/feelings on PBA Experience/Sport League
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2009, 07:55:51 PM »
Quote
This year, however, that same center decided to do the sport shot league again, but leave it unsanctioned so youths, as well as adults, can bowl. [/quoet]

Our center has run a Jr/Adult PBA experience league two summers and one winter season.  And it was sanctioned.  There's no need to NOT sanction it because of youth.  You just need to make sure that there is no prize fund.  

Erin
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Krakken

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Re: Thoughts/feelings on PBA Experience/Sport League
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2009, 08:00:02 PM »
quote:
quote:
If they aren't going to certify it in the PBA X program then don't certify it with the USBC at all.  Not fair to other bowlers, as it will lead to lower averages, and if they use that average to bowl in a tournament, then it is cheating in my opinion.

This is where the USBC and PBA need to step in and say if you use a PBA/SPort pattern, it has to be certified as a Sport league.


I don't know of any tournament, sanctioned or not, that uses averages from an unsanctioned league. If they do, then there's something wrong with that tourney, and I certainly wouldn't bowl it. The one's I've participated, or thought about participating, clearly state in their rules to use USBC sanctioned averages, or bowl scratch.

As far as the league being certified in order to use Sport shots, I agree to an extent. Why pay a sport sanction for the whole year when PBAX leagues are only during the summer, or in limited areas/centers? Some towns have sport leagues year round. But not in the Tulsa, OK area, where I live. Riverlanes has been the only center in all of eastern Oklahoma with a summer sport league for the past three yrs. With that limited availability, it's no surprise no one around here wants to pay the extra sport sanction. Which is why Riverlanes decided to make it unsanctioned this summer.

Like I said, it's just not catching on in my neck of the woods.


You miss my point.  What i am saying is if you don't sanction it as a Sport league, then don't sanction it.  If you don't sanction it as a sport league but sanction it USBC, then it goes in the book like a THS league.  But naturally your average would be lower.  Therefore when you enter a tourney using a PBA X league average (because it looks like a regular USBC avg) then you are cheating.
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Atochabsh

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Re: Thoughts/feelings on PBA Experience/Sport League
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2009, 08:08:08 PM »
I think if a center is going to try a PBA/Sport league then do it in the summer.  And despite my gut feelings you could go unsanctioned because averages do not count officially.  Running an unsanctioned handicapped PBA/Sport league in the winter, only attracks those that want a lower average for mixed handicapped tournaments.  Of course a tournament manager can rerate a participant for any reason, but if they don't know about this league then its gaining unfair advantage.

Its a huge hassle to lay down a sanctioned sport/PBA league.  The center needs to have the proper lane reading machines and then tape reading machine (as well as someone that knows how to use them) and then the tapes need to be interpreted as being compliant, maybe rerun the lanes and THEN you get to bowl that night.  And of course there's the sport card fee to pay.  Which, IMO, is not worth the few "sport" awards that you get.  I think its 75 pins over average and clean 30 frames (besides honor scores) that are the ONLY additional awards you get for your extra Sport fee.  

With so much effort on the line a center might want to do a test run during the summer to see if the local interest is there for sanctioning in the fall.  Our PBA/Sport league never had more then 18 bowlers (10,000 in the association) and only a few were over 200 average on a house shot. None of the big name bowlers bowled.  I think this is due to our Jr/Adult format, lack of competition (it was a singles league) and lack of prize fund.    

Erin
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DON DRAPER

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Re: Thoughts/feelings on PBA Experience/Sport League
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2009, 09:08:53 PM »
while competing in one will make you work harder and in the long run make you a better bowler, if the center doesn't use an up-to-date lane machine and have fairly new synthetic lanes the ball reaction you see in the league will not be close to what you would see at a pba regional tournament.
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KingofKings696

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Re: Thoughts/feelings on PBA Experience/Sport League
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2009, 10:04:13 PM »
We have a traveling league between 2 local houses and we have a PBA experience youth sweeper win a couple games and get some time on the patterns. Other than that we have NO sport shots.
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