I bowl a handicap tournament every couple weeks, and the handicap is 90 percent of 220.  Unless you have handicap, you might as well forget it.
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Forget Kung Fu, I know Ron Bahr!!!

The only difference between youth and adult leagues are that the big boys are allowed to whine.  They're more entertaining anyway.

With due respect to this topic because it's a good one, where does this sense of entitlement with respect to tournament participation come from?

To be blunt, if you're a 190-200 average bowler and want to be competitive, then get better! Tournaments are ultimately meant to put your skill on the line. If the skills aren't there yet, then develop them.

Find a good scratch league, preferably singles, and join it. Watch the players who are successful and learn from them. Take your lumps and chalk it up to experience. And you're never too good to do this. I'm currently in a PBA pattern singles league (with national and regional players), and it can be a humbling experience. But those of us taking the abuse are better for it, and it will only enhance future tournament performance.

So get out of the 190-200 "no man's land". It's not where you want to be, and no amount of handicap is going to make it a satisfying experience.

Sawbones: I do in fact 'grasp' the situation. But like many things, it depends on how you look at it.

I look at tournament participation as a privilege, and not necessarily a right. If you're prepared, you've earned the right play. If your skills aren't there (for any reason), then that's life. Tournaments only have meaning when there are standards, and once those are compromised by crazy handicap schemes, the results become meaningless.

Regardless, as Jeff just posted, many scratch tournaments are bracketed. In my region, we have 204 and below, and 205 and above for the higher average players. Two brackets should be enough for most who are ready for the tournament experience.

Unfortunately, you live in a rural area where you may not see average brackets, but they are common in larger urban areas.

Hmm.. Yeah but the 160 avg bowler only avgs 160, whos to say the 160 avg bowler will do good.. Either way, i use to think the same way.. But my dad explained something to me about handicap that most people dont realize..

Lets say you have a 160 avg bowler.. Then we have a 200 bowler doing a handicap tournament. If the 160 avg shoots his avg, and the 200 guy shoots his average, they both have a chance at winning.. So actually, since the 200 avg bowler gets no handicap and the 160 avg guys gets like 40 pins.. there equal... Most people think just because one person has a lot of handicap that they dont stand a chance, all you have to do is shoot your average and your fine, unless the 160 guy pulls something out of his ass, in that case your screwed.
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Money is no object to me because I dont have any...

Edited on 7/2/2003 3:50 PM

Edited on 7/2/2003 3:51 PM

Sorry it took a while to get back - work got busy and I couldn't discuss this any further.

Anyhow, I like Sawbones Idea of the flighted tourney as well.  Seems more fair than any handicap system regardless of the skill level involved.  However, someone brought up the sandbaggers again, and I think the ABC could do a better job of policing tournament avgs.

Here is my idea on how to make tournaments more "fair" for the all non-professional bowlers. 1) set different flights based on avg. Maybe 15 pin increments starting at 150 minimum?  So you'd have 150-165, 166-180, 181-195, and 196-210 and 211 and up.  5 flights of bowlers at different levels.

2) First tourney you use highest book avg.  Second and subsequent tourneys would be based solely off of tournament performance, or possibly a weighted avg. taking into consideration league and tournament scores.  This, in my mind could deter sandbagging somewhat.  Bowl your guts out to win, move up the avg. ladder, or keep sandbagging - lose your money, but stay in the division you're in.  You could even stagger the prize funds to have larger payouts for higher avg. divisions - therefore creating motivation for bowling well in tourneys and moving up to the next level.

3) Every sanctioned bowler should have a record created of all league avgs. for their lifetime, plus tournament avgs. on file with ABC (or whatever that organization becomes).  This way, all avgs. could easily be verified - maybe an online site where bowlers could check their avgs. at will for when they're filling out entry forms, or even at the lanes as a verification tool for tournament organizers.  Tournament avgs. would NOT reset each year, but would accumulate year to year.  This way, a sandbagger could not go in and bowl a 450 series the first tourney every year, then clean up on the second one (or set a low league avg for the same purpose).

Steven, I agree with the idea of getting better, and believe me I'm not stuck at 191 because I don't want to get better. One question though, is there a good site that is kept up to date on all tournaments in an area or state - including sanctioned and non-sanctioned events?

Chanelsurfer - I don't recall very many people shooting avg. in a handicapped tournament and getting any money back.

Just my ideas here - thanks to those who have voiced their opinion - anyone else have any thoughts?
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Why, WHY won't the last one just fall??  It's WIGGLING for cryin' out loud!!