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Author Topic: Thumb Pitch Survey?  (Read 5126 times)

MI 2 AZ

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Thumb Pitch Survey?
« on: July 06, 2005, 03:08:10 PM »
I recently switched my thumb pitch to forward.  One of the local balldrillers (not mine) who overheard me talking to a teammate said that forward pitch is the reason for spinning the ball and that only one professional bowler used forward pitch.  He said that in his 20 years of drilling he had never drilled forward for anyone.

I had been using zero for the last year and just had one ball drilled 1/2 positive.  No problems for me in getting out of the ball.

So that got me curious.  What do most of you use - forward, zero, or reverse thumb pitch (as read on a pitch gauge)?

Edited Subject.

Edited to add pitch gauge and zero.
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Edited on 7/7/2005 9:17 PM

Edited on 7/14/2005 1:06 AM
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south fl bowler

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Re: Thumb Pitch Survey?
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2005, 07:17:35 AM »
5/8 reverse and 1/4 under the palm
any less and i hang up
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Big Columbia

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Re: Thumb Pitch Survey?
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2005, 07:30:43 AM »
I have a 5in. span and using a 1/4 inch reverse.

JP
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Pinbuster

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Re: Thumb Pitch Survey?
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2005, 07:34:47 AM »
I personally use ½” reverse ¼” right… 4  Â¼ …..4 5/16 span.

I’ve used from ¼” forward to 1 ¼” reverse and used the same span on all these pitches. If you have a properly measured relax span you can use about any pitch in the thumb.

Any driller who has never drilled forward doesn’t know how to measure individuals  grips.

I’ve seen bowlers with 5” spans who needed forward and I’ve seen bowlers with less than 4” span need 1” reverse (the later a PBA champion).
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BowlerKidR

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Re: Thumb Pitch Survey?
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2005, 08:32:24 AM »
I got me an easy one...since i have like to flexability cuz im a little chunky, its just 1/8 reverse for me
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Thumb Pitch Survey?
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2005, 10:36:08 AM »
Again it IS based on span.

Forward reverse mean nothing.

A starting point means something.

The 63 degree angle measured by Bill Taylor states a 4 1/4 span has a 0 pitch.
A 5 inch span has a 3/8 reverse.  A 4 inch span has a 1/8 forward pitch.

All of these are the same for holding power if it is a full fingertip drill.

Then adjustments are made based on what one is doing with the ball.  Dropping, hanging etc.

Forward reverse not good or bad and 0 pitch is not the starting point of good or bad or a goal.  The goal is results!

So a 1/4 reverse for a 6 inch span is very forward to the 63 degree standard angle while a 1/8 reverse for a 4 inch span is very much revese in relation to the 63 degree table.

A better and more relevant question would be...  "Are you forward or reverse of the 63 degree table?"  Followed by what is your thumb flexibility 90, 105, 115?

In general better bowlers today of average flexibility are slightly forward of it!  BUt some great bowlers with less flexible thumbs are not!
And they are tearin it up!

Se sFl bowler profile!

REgards,

Luckylefty
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strikealot

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Re: Thumb Pitch Survey?
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2005, 10:51:22 AM »
total span 4 1/8,4 5/32, i use 1/4 forward and 1/8 right, just changed from 3/8 forward 3/8 right, seem to like my current grip better.

chad
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Thumb Pitch Survey?
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2005, 11:22:42 AM »
That is the trend!  But 0 is not the question.

Forward of the tables is the more relavant question.
And all it means is you have a more flexible thumb than other good bowlers!

REgards,

Luckylefty
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MI 2 AZ

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Re: Thumb Pitch Survey?
« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2005, 04:00:04 PM »
Results so far:

REV - 9

Zero - 4

FWD - 9


I am not advocating that people should change their thumb pitches, I am just curious as to what bowlers are using now whether it is from their own trial and error or based on a recommendation from a driller or coach.  

I moved away from reverse based on a clinic with Ron C.  That is when I went to zero.  After another clinic, I have moved to 1/2 fwd.  My span is about 4-1/2 (4-7/16, 4-9/16).

Thanks for all the replies so far.
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Thumb Pitch Survey?
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2005, 05:29:12 PM »
The post just is sort of irrelevant as it ignores the important component of span length.

Again the question is relevant if one is saying.  "Are you forward of the tables.?"  Again the trend would be towards more good bowlers more forward than the tables.

Again a 4 inch span that is forward 1/16 is reverse of the tables while a 5 inch span with a 1/4 reverse is way forward of the tables.

Forward/reverse with the standard of 0 as the reference point.  Irrelevant!

rEgards,

Luckylefty
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ThongPrincess

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Re: Thumb Pitch Survey?
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2005, 12:13:20 AM »
I went to forward pitch on the recommendation of my coach 3 years ago and I stopped dropping the ball at the line.
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Tex

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Re: Thumb Pitch Survey?
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2005, 10:31:56 PM »
I tried to shorten my spans and reduce reverse,while increasing forward on fingers and my scores suffered so bad, I gave up and went back to my old span and pitches. I have a 5 5/16" span and use 7/16" reverse, 1/16" left lateral. The shorter with less or forward thumb and fingers layed out forward is the trend, so have to agree with the guy who said the driller that said no one does that is not well informed. It is worth trying, but not for everyone. Good luck with the new spans.
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Mike Austin

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Re: Thumb Pitch Survey?
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2005, 11:13:43 PM »
LL- Why is this post irrelevant??  Maybe to you, that is your opinion.  Others keep telling you to drop it with all the CG and core orientation threads, yet you keep posting over and over, it is not irrelevant to you evidently.  Let AZ ask his simple question.

MI 2 AZ- the ball driller that made his statement his how many drillers are unfortunately.  They are still drilling the way they did 20 years ago.  Balls have changed, lanes have changed, oils have changed, theories have changed, drilling has to change also, to accomodate the changes in the game.  I try to never say never.  I tell customers that there is no book that says follow steps one through 7 and your grip is perfect.  

As for me, my span has ranged from 4 1/2 to 4 5/8 on both fingers over the last 6-7 years.  I did use a 4 1/2 middle with a 4 3/8 ring a few years ago when the lanes were really hooking all the time.  Right now my spans are 4 9/16 on both fingers.  

I have used as much as 1/4 reverse and as much as 3/8 forward with only slightly off center lateral pitches if any.  Right now, I'm using 1/8 reverse and 1/8 left lateral.  This is the pitches Ron Hoppe fit me for over ten years ago and I am back to it.  That was for a 4 1/2 inch span though, which I may go back to also.

I have some issues with getting the ball off my hand cleanly.  When I try to hit the ball and really get something on it, my thumb comes out of the ball very fast, almost to the point I feel like I'm squeezing it.  But, when I need to be really soft or no hand, I hang in the ball, almost causing loft.  This is opposite of what most my customers have problems with.  I'm thinking of trying the 4 1/2 spans again to see if I can clear the thumb better when trying to be soft with my grip pressure.

We shall see......
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tekneek

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Re: Thumb Pitch Survey?
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2005, 11:42:58 PM »
5" span,3/16 rev with 1/8 under
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Thumb Pitch Survey?
« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2005, 01:04:12 PM »
We've gathered for our spans anonymous meeting.

Mr. LL could you call out your pitches so we can add em to our survey.

"My name is LL"
"I've been fooling and fumphing with spans for 4 years".,,,, "I can't stop".
crowd in understanding ...."Ohhhhhhh."

"My span is 4 5/8 and while I'm forward of the tables I still use reverse"!
crowd,,,,, "ehhhhhhhhh".

"Thank You"

REgards,

Luckylefty
MI 2 AZ ....."hmmmm , where does that go in the survey"
discarded chad!
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MI 2 AZ

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Re: Thumb Pitch Survey?
« Reply #30 on: July 14, 2005, 01:11:13 AM »
I was off-line with intermittant HD problem, so thanks for the replies so far.

LL, to answer where I would put you, since I only asked for forward or reverse, I put you down as reverse.  I am afraid if I asked 'where are you on the 63 degree table', most bowlers I know would just give me a blank stare.  Unfortunately, until I read your replies, I would have also.  Heck, (can I say that on this site?) I think most bowlers I know dont even know if the pitch in their thumbhole reads negative or postive on a pitch gauge.  Of course, the bowlers on this site represent the more serious and/or the students of the game, so they would be able to answer that.

I am not as knowledgeable as you are and I thank you for the education you have provided me.  The point of this 'survey' was to have some information to give to that balldriller the next time I saw him as to his statement of never drilling a ball with forward for anyone.  I would also be curious as to how many (if any) pros use forward (so I could refute that part of his statement).

But, to keep it simple, I would prefer to just ask if the thumb pitch is forward, zero, or reverse on a pitch gauge for anyone who wants to provide that information here.

Here are the updated results so far:

Reverse - 13

Zero    -  5

Forward - 12
--------------------
__________________________________

"Those who will give up essential liberty to secure a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."  

  - Benjamin Franklin
________________________________________


I am the SGT Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing! I see nothing! NOTHING!"
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Six decades of league bowling and still learning.

ABC/USBC Lifetime Member since Aug 1995.
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