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Author Topic: Time to dump the USBC  (Read 16043 times)

Hogsharley

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Time to dump the USBC
« on: May 18, 2016, 07:50:36 PM »
In August our league is most likely going to vote to dump the USBC. The USBC has done nothing for us. Our secretary has put in for some awards and we never get them. We have called the local chapter and still no resolutions. The secretary and other officers are on board with leaving the USBC and we'll still get our awards, even if you already have a rings.

 The league would act on it's own. The money that we would pay to the USBC will be placed in an awards fund and anyone that shoots an honor score will get a ring. We have about 100 bowlers so at $20 a head, we will have around 2 G's for awards. We can buy a lot of rings for 2 G's. Whatever monies that don't get used will be placed back into the general prize fund. It a win, win for our league.

 Leagues used to sanction in order to get awards. Basically now there are no more awards so why keep the USBC. It's time to dump the USBC. I hope more leagues start thinking about leaving them too. Hit 'em where it hurts. Their wallets. Maybe they will get the hint.

 

Steven

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Re: Time to dump the USBC
« Reply #61 on: May 20, 2016, 03:46:29 PM »

Bingo! The vast majority of our members have been leaving every year for over a decade and no one seems to care. You guys and the USBC need to come down from your penthouse and think about the average league bowler that has never given a rats @ss about the "sport" of bowling. The die hard 1% are going to be there every year no matter what so why cater to them, we need a plan to grow membership. And please stop telling me how great youth is doing because their membership is declining too and has been for a very long time.

 
I just don't get this mentality. People have been leaving bowling for many reasons, most of which being socio-economic. That's been hashed over too many times to count and is well understood and accepted.
 
No national organization (USBC or otherwise) is going to come up with some magic plan to "grow membership". If you can't articulate what that elusive plan should be, it most likely doesn't exist.
 
The answer you don't want to hear is that it's up to you, me, and the centers we bowl at. People like miloraferty (here on BR) who put in the time an effort to get new bowlers involved are the answer. Grassroots efforts work. The problem is that it's easier to moan and complain, which is the reason these topics never go away.

morpheus

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Re: Time to dump the USBC
« Reply #62 on: May 20, 2016, 04:29:11 PM »

Bingo! The vast majority of our members have been leaving every year for over a decade and no one seems to care. You guys and the USBC need to come down from your penthouse and think about the average league bowler that has never given a rats @ss about the "sport" of bowling. The die hard 1% are going to be there every year no matter what so why cater to them, we need a plan to grow membership. And please stop telling me how great youth is doing because their membership is declining too and has been for a very long time.

 
I just don't get this mentality. People have been leaving bowling for many reasons, most of which being socio-economic. That's been hashed over too many times to count and is well understood and accepted.
 
No national organization (USBC or otherwise) is going to come up with some magic plan to "grow membership". If you can't articulate what that elusive plan should be, it most likely doesn't exist.
 
The answer you don't want to hear is that it's up to you, me, and the centers we bowl at. People like miloraferty (here on BR) who put in the time an effort to get new bowlers involved are the answer. Grassroots efforts work. The problem is that it's easier to moan and complain, which is the reason these topics never go away.

The only reason the socio-economic argument is accepted is because the sheep blindly accept the crap being regurgitated by the USBC and BPAA. I mean come on, I realize other sports have suffered too but we had roughly 20 million members 20 years ago and we are down to 1.7 as of last year. 

I don't expect those like yourself to come up with a solution because you don't even think there's a problem. And as for your strategy...it may be time to try something else because it's not working.


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txbowler

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Re: Time to dump the USBC
« Reply #63 on: May 20, 2016, 04:58:20 PM »
morpheus,

We all have opinions.  You make think some of ours are terrible, and I bet there a people on here that think some of your and mine are terrible too.

Dismissing socio-economics side is foolish.

There is no "one cause" for the decline in membership.  There are a lot of contributing factors that led to the decline of membership.

Was or is USBC/ABC a part of those contributing factors.  Yes.  How much?  You and I would probably disagree on the percentage and I won't give out my guesses to simply continue the argument.

So going forward, I believe there is no simple solution to growing membership or slowing its decline.

Just like it took decades for the membership to decline, I think it will take decades for the membership to stabilize and possibly grow.

Do I think we are headed in the right direction.  Yes, but very, very slowly.

The phrase the horse has been let out of the barn applies.  But the horse also ran away.  It's never coming back.  The numbers of the 80s will unlikely never return. 

The conditions of the world and technology have changed.

Think about this.  Why did bowling leagues happen when they happened.  Because for a lot of the country, it's really cold in the winter and not a lot of people want to be outdoors.  Another reason people got together to bowl; work leagues, factory leagues.  Detroit had/has the highest number of sanction bowlers.  Why?  Factory worker leagues in a very cold climate during the winter.  Same all across the country.

Well today, some if not a lot of those workers have had their job replaced with technology.  Robot welders doing the job of 100 welders in one 8 hr shift, except the robot doesn't take breaks or eat lunch.  In fact, he doesn't sleep.  24x7 if necessary, he welds.  Just an example.

And also:  There are many other things to do this day and age during those winter months.  TV is now 500 channels, not 4 or 20 if you had cable.  Never mind playstations, game cubes etc.  Now one can stay home, save gas and be entertained when it's 28 degrees outside.

Just examples of contributing factors that aided in the decline of membership.

Easier scoring conditions.  Sure, it probably caused a few people to quit too.  But I promise, that it away now, and 25% of your current membership will quit too.  They like it easy.  That horse ran away too.

Bashing USBC does nothing.  Yes they made mistakes.  We all do.    Hell we make the same mistake 3,4 or 5 times.  Oops got caught speeding again.

I think they are trying to improve everything about bowling.  EVERYTHING.  Leagues, tournaments, professional bowling, etc.  It all falls under their umbrella, and you may not like it all because you think it doesn't benefit you, when in reality, it does.

I've read people hear saying why should USBC put money into the womens PBA.  Well if seeing those ladies on TV gets 2000 little girls nationwide to start bowling in juniors, that helps bowling doesn't it? 

Quit bashing and help where you can.

morpheus

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Re: Time to dump the USBC
« Reply #64 on: May 20, 2016, 05:12:23 PM »
morpheus,

We all have opinions.  You make think some of ours are terrible, and I bet there a people on here that think some of your and mine are terrible too.

Dismissing socio-economics side is foolish.

There is no "one cause" for the decline in membership.  There are a lot of contributing factors that led to the decline of membership.

Was or is USBC/ABC a part of those contributing factors.  Yes.  How much?  You and I would probably disagree on the percentage and I won't give out my guesses to simply continue the argument.

So going forward, I believe there is no simple solution to growing membership or slowing its decline.

Just like it took decades for the membership to decline, I think it will take decades for the membership to stabilize and possibly grow.

Do I think we are headed in the right direction.  Yes, but very, very slowly.

The phrase the horse has been let out of the barn applies.  But the horse also ran away.  It's never coming back.  The numbers of the 80s will unlikely never return. 

The conditions of the world and technology have changed.

Think about this.  Why did bowling leagues happen when they happened.  Because for a lot of the country, it's really cold in the winter and not a lot of people want to be outdoors.  Another reason people got together to bowl; work leagues, factory leagues.  Detroit had/has the highest number of sanction bowlers.  Why?  Factory worker leagues in a very cold climate during the winter.  Same all across the country.

Well today, some if not a lot of those workers have had their job replaced with technology.  Robot welders doing the job of 100 welders in one 8 hr shift, except the robot doesn't take breaks or eat lunch.  In fact, he doesn't sleep.  24x7 if necessary, he welds.  Just an example.

And also:  There are many other things to do this day and age during those winter months.  TV is now 500 channels, not 4 or 20 if you had cable.  Never mind playstations, game cubes etc.  Now one can stay home, save gas and be entertained when it's 28 degrees outside.

Just examples of contributing factors that aided in the decline of membership.

Easier scoring conditions.  Sure, it probably caused a few people to quit too.  But I promise, that it away now, and 25% of your current membership will quit too.  They like it easy.  That horse ran away too.

Bashing USBC does nothing.  Yes they made mistakes.  We all do.    Hell we make the same mistake 3,4 or 5 times.  Oops got caught speeding again.

I think they are trying to improve everything about bowling.  EVERYTHING.  Leagues, tournaments, professional bowling, etc.  It all falls under their umbrella, and you may not like it all because you think it doesn't benefit you, when in reality, it does.

I've read people hear saying why should USBC put money into the womens PBA.  Well if seeing those ladies on TV gets 2000 little girls nationwide to start bowling in juniors, that helps bowling doesn't it? 

Quit bashing and help where you can.


Just so there's no misunderstanding, I too am in the 1% and I had all the rings and awards I care to have a long time ago. But again, the 1% will always be there so why is it so hard to understand that the USBC is excluding the very demographic that should be the focus with #afutureforthesport?

I just don't get how the logic is lost on you guys...
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Steven

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Re: Time to dump the USBC
« Reply #65 on: May 20, 2016, 05:26:07 PM »

The only reason the socio-economic argument is accepted is because the sheep blindly accept the crap being regurgitated by the USBC and BPAA. I mean come on, I realize other sports have suffered too but we had roughly 20 million members 20 years ago and we are down to 1.7 as of last year. 

I don't expect those like yourself to come up with a solution because you don't even think there's a problem. And as for your strategy...it may be time to try something else because it's not working.

 
Socio-economic reasons are accepted because they are reality. The USA has lost millions upon millions of middle class manufacturing and support jobs over the past few decades. The vast 'middle class' that fed the endless trough of bowlers has dried up, and you call this reality "regurgitated crap". You should really reconsider the demographics of the average working person of today before sounding off your conclusions.
 
You keep saying "it's time to try something else" without offering what that something else should be. I know it's always easier to pawn problems off onto someone else, but if you yourself can't articulate answers, what does that say??
 
I offered a solution that you're conveniently ignoring. Get off the couch and start recruiting yourself. After much pushing, I finally got my daughter and son-in-law to do a mixed handicap league with me, and now they've been happy year round league bowlers for the past three years. What if every USBC bowler recruited 2 others who wouldn't otherwise consider league bowling, no matter what "USBC Strategy" was enacted? The answer is millions. But it takes effort, and it starts with you. You can accept the challenge or continue complaining. It's your choice.

avabob

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Re: Time to dump the USBC
« Reply #66 on: May 20, 2016, 08:12:14 PM »
Bowling saw one of the greatest booms of any activity ever in this country. By any measure booms are followed by busts.  The simple answer to the decline in bowling is that the game has much more competition for our leisure time than it did 50 years ago.  I like bowling more than golf softball skiing boating. My neighbor across the street probably has a different favorite. That is his right. Last I looked bowling still rated pretty high on the list of recreation activities

morpheus

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Re: Time to dump the USBC
« Reply #67 on: May 20, 2016, 08:42:48 PM »
It's a good thing all these economic and social changes haven't cut organized participation by 80% in golf, baseball, football, basketball over the last decade. You guys keep talking about macro changes so there should be a correlation with these other sports. I mean maybe they're down, but not anywhere near 80% so help me out guys, the logic seems flawed.
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SG17

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Re: Time to dump the USBC
« Reply #68 on: May 20, 2016, 09:09:24 PM »
Bowling, especially leagues, are not cheap to participate in.  if you are paying $15 a night, for 33 weeks that is $495 to bowl.  then, if you take serious enough to own your own equipment, that is quite possible to spend hundreds more on a ball or 2, a bag and shoes.

Sure the equipment expense may not be an annual thing for most, but you can't ignore it.

for my summer softball league this year, it was $750 for the entire team.  we are planning on carrying 13 members.  that is rounding up to $58 per person for the team.

cant speak to golf, but baseball, softball and basketball are pretty cheap in comparison to bowling

avabob

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Re: Time to dump the USBC
« Reply #69 on: May 20, 2016, 09:39:28 PM »
You do realize something like 5000 golf courses closed over the past 10 years.  Organized (usga members ) are a fraction of usbc members

morpheus

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Re: Time to dump the USBC
« Reply #70 on: May 20, 2016, 09:56:42 PM »
You do realize something like 5000 golf courses closed over the past 10 years.  Organized (usga members ) are a fraction of usbc members

I think you might be off just a touch...

 The current total of 15,372 courses in the U.S. is down from a peak of 16,052 following a "gradual, but steady, market correction," the report said.Mar 11, 2015

http://espn.go.com/golf/story/_/id/12461331/number-us-golf-courses-steady-decline-says-report
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itsallaboutme

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Re: Time to dump the USBC
« Reply #71 on: May 21, 2016, 05:16:32 AM »
The same people that want an award for shooting 200 are the same people that think every kid should get a trophy.  Good luck changing the way that group thinks. 

itsallaboutme

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Re: Time to dump the USBC
« Reply #72 on: May 21, 2016, 05:28:33 AM »
If you are going to compare to golf you can't use just USGA numbers because their membership is a different model.  There are over 2 million golfers with GHIN handicaps and many others with handicaps in states who's golf association doesn't use GHIN.  GHIN is a USGA service, so anyone that has a handicap through this system is paying something to the USGA.


Pinbuster

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Re: Time to dump the USBC
« Reply #73 on: May 21, 2016, 06:28:06 AM »
The number 20 million members keeps being thrown out.

The ABC and WIBC never had 20 million members.

I believe the ABC had about 4.5 million and WIBC around 3.7 million around 1981.

Juniors organizations had about 750 thousand.

There started a decline after that. By the time the USBC was formed there were less than 4 million members total.



morpheus

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Re: Time to dump the USBC
« Reply #74 on: May 21, 2016, 07:03:46 AM »
Let's assume you're right and compare the financial side of membership.  Looking at financial statements, membership dues revenue dropped 36% for the nine years between 2006 and 2015. Regardless of how you want to look at the decline I think the result is the same in terms of percentage decline.

http://www.bowl.com/About/About_Home/Financials/
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avabob

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Re: Time to dump the USBC
« Reply #75 on: May 21, 2016, 09:36:56 AM »
I stand corrected on both the number of courses, and the USGA membership.  It does appear that there are no more golfers with handicaps than USBC members with averages.