Author Topic: Time to STOP! (Read 10859 times)

JOE FALCO · « **on:** December 17, 2010, 08:51:58 AM »

I read all the postings on EBONITE and how they were going to do something to fix the price on there bowling balls. I thought at the time I can see the argument! But these prices are crazy. Ebonite and Hammer balls going for $155 undrilled is OUT OF BOUNDS! I see where the online shops were cutting the throats of the B/M shops but .. now the companies are SHOVING ridiculous prices down the throat of bowlers.

I think it's about time for BOWLER'S to take a stand and start investigating some of the newer companies. If we accept these prices and don't revolt we might as well give up the game. EBONITE and company has lost me as a customer .. don't care how good there advertised balls appear!

Hoselrockets · « **Reply #61 on:** December 20, 2010, 05:09:58 PM »

Its about time one of the big guys stepped up and did this, Titleist does this with there irons. I guess if someone can't pony up an extra 10 buck for a Ebo ball then so be it. I bet if they keep getting their brains beat in with that same Ebo ball they will start to second guess how much they really saved?

I mean how much money are we really talking about over a season? The "ball whore" types would drill about 20 balls per season and "if" half of them are Ebonite balls that is an extra $100? I don't see the big deal if that particular ball can make you more money? Anyways...different strokes for different folks.
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THB

JustRico · « **Reply #62 on:** December 20, 2010, 06:37:17 PM »

I tried to read through most of this, but my eyes got crossed, so to comment on a few points....

It is a good thing that a manufacturer is trying to help out the B & Ms by putting a MAP on their product, but what most of the pro shops have missed out is...THINK ABOUT IT...the only one that is making out on what they are doing is...the MANUFACTURER...a few years ago they placed a minimum on what a ball could be sold at to B & Ms. This made more money for the manufacturer and provided the pro shops, that have been in business for years the ability to buy at a lower price-you are now at a level playing field with the hobbyists and part-timers.
Then they decided to take away the big 3 etailers...which if you look at from one angle, they are trying to protect the B & Ms by instituting a MAP...but in reality they eliminated the middle man (distributors) and made more money for themselves....AGAIN. WAKE UP they look out for themselves and no one else. And they released 4 balls in November and 2 in December and now....4 more in January! AWESOME! Good luck knowing what to stock.....

Secondly, you guys that think pro shops are screwing you for trying to make a living, by charging a FAIR price for product, are so far out of line it's ridiculous.
Example....15 years ago I owned a pro shop for 4 years...I did a MILLION dollars in 4 years and couldn't get out of business quick enough....'what's my price' 'I can get it cheaper down the street' 'are grips and slugs included' seriously this is ridiculous....
so I have an idea for everyone of you that
A. believe pro shops are screwing you and
B. can do it better and cheaper...
OPEN YOUR OWN SHOP.

Drill press-$8500 (for a GOOD one)
Drill bits $1000
Ball spinner-$475 (for a good one)
Bevel sander-$60
Haus resurfacer-$3500
Rejuvenator-$1600
Kaufman Scale-$1000
Pro-Sect $75

Thats before inventory....Now if you are not in a pro shop-which will necessitate rent-they need to open a store front which will increase their overhead...so if a guy is trying to make a living what's so bad about that? Why do everyone of you think it's so easy? If it is...GO FOR IT! Step up....and let's see how you do.....
Bowling is the only industry where the average consumer can buy a product at the same price as a business....do you think you can buy golf clubs at the same price as Golf Galaxy?

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Formerly BrunsRico

ccrider · « **Reply #63 on:** December 20, 2010, 06:47:11 PM »

The market will correct the problem. In my area, Track and Storm are flying off the shelves. Very few Missions 2.0, despite the popularity of the Mission. I have to say it is the price difference.

--------------------
Those that can do. Those that can't complain. Pimpin ain't easy, but it's mandatory.

Most things we like, we don't need. Most things we need, we don't like. Don't confuse your likes with your needs.

sunsetlefty · « **Reply #64 on:** December 20, 2010, 08:05:16 PM »

quote:
I tried to read through most of this, but my eyes got crossed, so to comment on a few points....

It is a good thing that a manufacturer is trying to help out the B & Ms by putting a MAP on their product, but what most of the pro shops have missed out is...THINK ABOUT IT...the only one that is making out on what they are doing is...the MANUFACTURER...a few years ago they placed a minimum on what a ball could be sold at to B & Ms. This made more money for the manufacturer and provided the pro shops, that have been in business for years the ability to buy at a lower price-you are now at a level playing field with the hobbyists and part-timers.
Then they decided to take away the big 3 etailers...which if you look at from one angle, they are trying to protect the B & Ms by instituting a MAP...but in reality they eliminated the middle man (distributors) and made more money for themselves....AGAIN. WAKE UP they look out for themselves and no one else. And they released 4 balls in November and 2 in December and now....4 more in January! AWESOME! Good luck knowing what to stock.....

Secondly, you guys that think pro shops are screwing you for trying to make a living, by charging a FAIR price for product, are so far out of line it''s ridiculous.
Example....15 years ago I owned a pro shop for 4 years...I did a MILLION dollars in 4 years and couldn''t get out of business quick enough....''what''s my price'' ''I can get it cheaper down the street'' ''are grips and slugs included'' seriously this is ridiculous....
so I have an idea for everyone of you that
A. believe pro shops are screwing you and
B. can do it better and cheaper...
OPEN YOUR OWN SHOP.

Drill press-$8500 (for a GOOD one)
Drill bits $1000
Ball spinner-$475 (for a good one)
Bevel sander-$60
Haus resurfacer-$3500
Rejuvenator-$1600
Kaufman Scale-$1000
Pro-Sect $75

Thats before inventory....Now if you are not in a pro shop-which will necessitate rent-they need to open a store front which will increase their overhead...so if a guy is trying to make a living what''s so bad about that? Why do everyone of you think it''s so easy? If it is...GO FOR IT! Step up....and let''s see how you do.....
Bowling is the only industry where the average consumer can buy a product at the same price as a business....do you think you can buy golf clubs at the same price as Golf Galaxy?

--------------------
Formerly BrunsRico

Everything in the above post is absolutely dead on correct..... maybe some of you should step up and give the pro shop business a try. I paid very close to what JustRico listed for my startup costs. I have added more items, but let''s use his list as an example:

The total price for startup comes to $16,210 before inventory. Let''s add $3,000 for a startup inventory, which in reality is a pretty empty pro shop inventory, but enough to get you started. You open up business, and start to drill balls.........

The national average price to drill a blank ball (as quoted from the Ebonite Extravaganza in June 2010, which I attended) is $70.00 including grips and thumb slug. Some shops don''t charge this much, but it is still the national average. So, let''s use this as the base price.

If you factor in insurance, lease, and material costs (drill bits, grips, slugs, glue, glue remover, abralon pads, marking pencils, and repair or replacement of larger items, such as vacuum canisters, drill press parts, etc.) you might clear $35.00 a ball. That leaves $35.00 profit per ball.

A pro shop operator would need to drill 548.85 balls to get to the BREAK EVEN POINT.

Remember also, that anything after this, Federal and State tax must be paid.

Have fun making a ton of money with your new pro shop......

--------------------
Owner of X-act Reaction pro shop at Ideal Lanes
www.xactreaction.com
Ebonite International Gold Pro Shop
Rotogrip Star Pro Shop
Storm VIP Pro Shop
PBA Member

Edited on 12/20/2010 10:26 PM

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #65 on:** December 20, 2010, 08:29:19 PM »

Ebonite is out for Ebonite not anyone else. That is their business. Our local shop in order to keep it's current gold or platinum status with Ebonite has to devote so much shelf space to the product, sell X amount of product, and maintain that to get better prices from EBI.

That includes taking down other brands advertising in the shop and ect. They are pushing the shop to sell exclusively Ebonite products. It is a cut throat business and likely to happen here. It's funny to see the rep come in and tell the owner how to run his shop and to put up more EBI products and take down other manufactures signs and displays.

Considering the shop is 80% EBI and 15% Brunswick with some left over old stock of other brands here and there I'm surprised they made such a big deal.

If EBI can make more money off the Big3 and make their BandMs happy, they don't care what anyone else is thinking. If by chance it didn't work and sales started to fall then they would likely make changes. Time will tell for sure.

It's a cut throat business, with slim margins for 95% of the people involved. If you think it is anything otherwise you are wrong.

--------------------
Be good, or be good at it.

JustRico · « **Reply #66 on:** December 20, 2010, 08:38:56 PM »

'If EBI can make more money off the Big3 and make their BandMs happy, they don't care what anyone else is thinking.' Ah, but without distributors...in the long run...they cannot take care of the B & M's...they will only care about the higher volume anything-Etailers, pro shops, etc...the little guy will get screwed...if you think you are getting screwed now...just wait.

'If by chance it didn't work and sales started to fall then they would likely make changes. Time will tell for sure.'
Already has...they have dropped to less than 50% of the market...4 brands. So come out with more product...how does this look out for the B & M?
One of two things will happen....you will either end up with too much inventory you can't sell....or not be able to get balls that are on fire (see Taboo), cause your distributor is afraid to take a chance on a 'new' product.
Oh ya...forgot....hottest ball on the market-Taboo...Widow core (3+ years old) and 'new' coverstock....and went up $20+ a ball.....EBI looking our for?

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Formerly BrunsRico

JOE FALCO · « **Reply #67 on:** December 20, 2010, 08:40:37 PM »

All very good info .. and YES I would never go into the Pro Shop business. Just one question and a YES or NO answer will do:

Did the latest action by Ebonite screw the bowler?

JustRico · « **Reply #68 on:** December 20, 2010, 08:51:50 PM »

Joe
What one forgets through all of this is that bowling has been devalued by certain Etailers.
When I was in business, a HP cost approx $100-110 and we, on the West Coast were able to maybe sell for approx $200.
Now HP balls have increased approx 20-25% and guess what, guys on the West Coast are selling HP balls for approx $190. Hmmmm I'm no genius but that ain't good math.
So when I was in the biz...there was ONE Etailer....and he was selling HP balls for $159 or so...he wanted to make money-interesting concept. Now you have everyone & their brother wanting to open up a website or a pro shop and think it's easy to make money.
The Etailers have raped the industry for years....they have made a ton of money off ALL of us....it is time, unfortunately for everyone to step up and work together. The only way the game will survive is if everyone quits thinking about themselves and working together to save the game or you know what...THERE WON'T BE ANY GAME.
There is NO way in hell that a consumer should be able to buy a product for what it is sold to a business...and that is what the Etailer has created....a bad business model.
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Formerly BrunsRico

sunsetlefty · « **Reply #69 on:** December 20, 2010, 08:56:42 PM »

quote:
All very good info .. and YES I would never go into the Pro Shop business. Just one question and a YES or NO answer will do:

Did the latest action by Ebonite screw the bowler?

Joe, I honestly don''t know. From a pro shop owner''s standpoint, it helped me. From the consumer standpoint, it might or might not.

In this economy, a successful pro shop needs to be very careful in how much they charge for the bowling ball + drilling service. It''s up to each pro shop to determine this price.

If a consumer is not happy with either the price or the service, then they should look elsewhere. HOWEVER, I myself as a consumer have always been willing to pay more for the best service in my area. When I purchase a product, and it performs as it should, or exceeds expectations, then I consider it a good value, and I will return to that business again.

A pro shop is no different. You get what you pay for. Cheap and quick usually results in poor fit and poor ball reaction. You''ll know a quality fit and reaction when you find the right pro shop....and the consumer should be willing to pay a fair and reasonable amount for it.
--------------------
Owner of X-act Reaction pro shop at Ideal Lanes
www.xactreaction.com
Ebonite International Gold Pro Shop
Rotogrip Star Pro Shop
Storm VIP Pro Shop
PBA Member

Edited on 12/20/2010 10:57 PM

JustRico · « **Reply #70 on:** December 20, 2010, 09:05:16 PM »

In an earlier post, there was a comment about shops going out of business... there are many that NEED to go out of business. Makes the better shops stronger.
Sunsetlefty brings up a great point, in the sense that there are too many shops that charge too little, for their services, which in a sense devalues a qualified pro shops value.
Do you think if I was in business today that I would be charging less than $75 to drill a blank? I was charging $45 over 10 years ago. And I am pretty sure there would at least ONE customer that would tell me I am screwing them....cause the guy down the street is charging $25...with grips and slugs! AWESOME!
--------------------
Formerly BrunsRico

Doug Sterner · « **Reply #71 on:** December 20, 2010, 10:02:51 PM »

Joe, I will answer your question from my standpoint....

"Did Ebonite screw the bowler?"

In my case and the case of the bowlers in my area, not at all. Sunsetlefty is in the same general area as I am but he has a much different clientele than I do.

Last season I was selling Missions for $195 drilled out the door. I am selling Mission 2.0's for $195 drilled out the door. My cost for the Ebonite brands has not changed so therefore my price to my customers has not changed.

I feel the only bowlers who are getting "screwed" by this move by Ebonite are those who have been screwing their local pro shops out of the $10 they decided to save by buying the ball from bowlingball.com et al.

What many of these "bargain shoppers" don't realize is that if they gave their local pro shop their total business, chances are that they would get better pricing on their purchases. I have several bowlers who have been incredibly loyal to me over the years and they never pay the price on the shelf.

Ebonite has not set prices for pro shops to sell their product. What Ebonite did was to prevent 3 specific "e-tailers" from underselling the distributors and, as a result, the brick and mortar pro shops.
--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
RotoGrip Star Pro Shop
Turbo XTreme Dealer

golfnutFL · « **Reply #72 on:** December 20, 2010, 10:56:02 PM »

That's to break even in your first year....not many small businesses do that. Stay in business FIVE...you'll do OK.

quote:

Everything in the above post is absolutely dead on correct..... maybe some of you should step up and give the pro shop business a try. I paid very close to what JustRico listed for my startup costs. I have added more items, but let''s use his list as an example:

The total price for startup comes to $16,210 before inventory. Let''s add $3,000 for a startup inventory, which in reality is a pretty empty pro shop inventory, but enough to get you started. You open up business, and start to drill balls.........

The national average price to drill a blank ball (as quoted from the Ebonite Extravaganza in June 2010, which I attended) is $70.00 including grips and thumb slug. Some shops don''t charge this much, but it is still the national average. So, let''s use this as the base price.

If you factor in insurance, lease, and material costs (drill bits, grips, slugs, glue, glue remover, abralon pads, marking pencils, and repair or replacement of larger items, such as vacuum canisters, drill press parts, etc.) you might clear $35.00 a ball. That leaves $35.00 profit per ball.

A pro shop operator would need to drill 548.85 balls to get to the BREAK EVEN POINT.

Remember also, that anything after this, Federal and State tax must be paid.

Have fun making a ton of money with your new pro shop......

--------------------
Owner of X-act Reaction pro shop at Ideal Lanes
www.xactreaction.com
Ebonite International Gold Pro Shop
Rotogrip Star Pro Shop
Storm VIP Pro Shop
PBA Member

Edited on 12/20/2010 10:26 PM

golfnutFL · « **Reply #73 on:** December 20, 2010, 11:00:04 PM »

$10?

? Not looking hard enough....$25-30. A lot for someone that drills 40-50 a year. With this policy in place no Ebonite brand will be drilled for me. In reality, not a huge deal. I prefer Storm/Roto/Visionary...

quote:
Joe, I will answer your question from my standpoint....

"Did Ebonite screw the bowler?"

In my case and the case of the bowlers in my area, not at all. Sunsetlefty is in the same general area as I am but he has a much different clientele than I do.

Last season I was selling Missions for $195 drilled out the door. I am selling Mission 2.0's for $195 drilled out the door. My cost for the Ebonite brands has not changed so therefore my price to my customers has not changed.

I feel the only bowlers who are getting "screwed" by this move by Ebonite are those who have been screwing their local pro shops out of the $10 they decided to save by buying the ball from bowlingball.com et al.

What many of these "bargain shoppers" don't realize is that if they gave their local pro shop their total business, chances are that they would get better pricing on their purchases. I have several bowlers who have been incredibly loyal to me over the years and they never pay the price on the shelf.

Ebonite has not set prices for pro shops to sell their product. What Ebonite did was to prevent 3 specific "e-tailers" from underselling the distributors and, as a result, the brick and mortar pro shops.
--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
RotoGrip Star Pro Shop
Turbo XTreme Dealer

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #74 on:** December 20, 2010, 11:38:05 PM »

Yes if you buy online.

If you buy from proshops....not yet.

--------------------
Be good, or be good at it.

JustRico · « **Reply #75 on:** December 21, 2010, 06:58:00 AM »

So Doug, you are basically making less than $60 a ball for your work...after sales tax, closer to $50. So you are working off less than a 40% margin.
How is this good?
--------------------
Formerly BrunsRico

Author Topic: Time to STOP! (Read 10859 times)

JOE FALCO

Time to STOP!

Hoselrockets

Re: Time to STOP!

JustRico

Re: Time to STOP!

ccrider

Re: Time to STOP!

sunsetlefty

Re: Time to STOP!

kidlost2000

Re: Time to STOP!

JustRico

Re: Time to STOP!

JOE FALCO

Re: Time to STOP!

JustRico

Re: Time to STOP!

sunsetlefty

Re: Time to STOP!

JustRico

Re: Time to STOP!

Doug Sterner

Re: Time to STOP!

golfnutFL

Re: Time to STOP!

golfnutFL

Re: Time to STOP!

kidlost2000

Re: Time to STOP!

JustRico

Re: Time to STOP!