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Author Topic: To insert or not to insert  (Read 3123 times)

alloutsmith3

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To insert or not to insert
« on: June 27, 2010, 02:28:18 PM »
I've never used inserts because I like the natural feel of the ball but after having wrist surgery my arthritis is getting the best of me at times. For the guys that have drilled balls with and without inserts whats your opinion on how much pressure they take off the fingers.
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Quadrajet

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Re: To insert or not to insert
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2010, 10:54:54 PM »
Over the last 30 years, I've gone from grips to no grips and back to grips again.  I believe that a big part of how well or poorly grips work depends a lot on how dry or sweaty your hands are, here are my observations.

Without grips -
My skin is really dry, so when I am not using grips, I find myself subconsciously using more wrist because my dry fingers tend to slip on the slick hole surface.  I usually blow in the fingerholes to give my fingers a bit more "tack", and sometimes wishing that I had some of that Pro-Grip stuff (the yellow tacky wax) for my fingers.

With grips-
I've found that having grips allows me to relax my wrist more, I'm no longer concerned about not catching all of the ball with my fingers, or having it slip slightly when lifting.

As far as pressure on the fingers goes, I think that grips actually put more of the weight of the ball on your fingers.  Simply because a person's fingers stick to the grips better than the slippery finger holes.


My suggestion is probably one you've already thought of.  Get a ball (preferably a crappy one) and drill it up with grips, then practice with it.  Don't worry about score, just pick a mark and hit it, try to relax your wrist more than normal.  Throw enough games to get a decent feel for the grips, then switch back to your ball without grips.  Be aware of the difference in feel and tension in your wrist/fingers.

Hope this helps.

bowlerdawg

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Re: To insert or not to insert
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2010, 07:35:16 AM »
my opinion is that they take a good deal of pressure off your finger tips
when I started bowling finger tip I had no grips, and learned this way. After grips became so popular I started using them, and have used them exclusively for 15+ years, I recently reverted back to no grips in the fingers, because I prefer the feel, but I can tell you there is NO give in the fingers, where there is plenty of cushion and give in the balls with grips.

not something you would ordinarily pay attention to, unless you just made the switch.

I would say do it, for the reasons you mentioned, and I think you will be happy
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bhsbigcountry

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Re: To insert or not to insert
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2010, 04:16:20 PM »
I had inserts, went with out now i am back. It gives you support because an insert has give where the ball doesnt. Not to mention with the recient surgery it will help you stay in the ball longer, projecting it on the lane better and in my case allowed me to keep the revs i had but be softer with it when i need with less effort than inserts.
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al_g

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Re: To insert or not to insert
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2010, 05:09:21 PM »
I agree with what was previously said - try it in an old ball or pick up a cheap one and try it.

Another thing to consider is having your pro shop look at your span and pitches. This could do wonders for you and take pressure of your wrist. This could be a better option than inserts.

It looks like from your profile you're throwing 15lb. equipment. As a last resort you might want to try a 14 lb. ball if none of the above work.

For reference, I had 3 wrist/hand surgeries 17 years ago when I was in college. It left me with a lot of scar tissue in my hand/wrist and I don't doubt some arthritis too. Personally, I can't imagine throwing a ball without inserts. In the 17 years since my surgeries I have shortened my span or changed pitches 4 different times and dropped from 16 to 15 lb equipment. I think if you have wrist problems you have to look at everything and be willing to make changes if you want to keep bowling long term. Due to these changes I can bowl pain free 90%+ of the time. If my wrist/hand start bothering me more frequently over a few months I know it's time to make changes.

I hope this helps you and good luck in finding what works for you. I know from experience that it can wear on you bowling with pain.

Neptune66

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Re: To insert or not to insert
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2010, 06:28:43 PM »
I used inserts until about 3-4 years ago and switched and gradually grew to prefer the their absence.  And I am in my mid-fifties and have had fewer problems with calluses and hand/wrist sprains since losing the inserts.

Have one ball that still has them, and once in awhile I pull it out of retirement just to see what it's like. Usually the very first game is fantastic, but then I tend to hang on to it too long and yank it past the head pin.  The scores gradually deteriorate, and while I could probably learn to bowl again with them, I would not only have to adjust my delivery, but all the balls in my arsenal.

However...  I do use the Pro-Grip cream sometimes to make the finger holes tacky. And on some of the balls, I have added a short piece (about 1/4 inch by 3/8's of an inch) of white textered bowler's tape to the finger holes. Not for the size, but just to create a textered surface.

Hope that helps.

kingpin268

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Re: To insert or not to insert
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2010, 06:37:47 PM »
I started with grips for a few years. Have been bowling without for the last few years and have liked it for the most part. I have a problem warming up, especially in the winter during college bowling. With the large number of people, you only get a few shots before actual competition. My hands are normally cold as is the ball and no inserts, I think, make its harder to get a solid grip. I'm considering getting grips in the ball to give me a better feel earlier on. I've also started putting white tape in the back of the thumb hole for the same reason. Anyone else try this and can comment?
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charlest

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Re: To insert or not to insert
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2010, 08:06:48 PM »
I am not sure about grips relieving the pressure on your wrist. I mean I use them for another reason, but they are stickier and you will get more revs but my feeling, my worry for you is they may do more harm than good. It's almost like they guarantee more pressure on your fingertips and that produces more tension on your tendons and on down the line.

The only way to make sure for yourself is to try them, though. Be careful.

FYI there are different textures in different brands. Some are softer and some are harder. Heck, even different colors in the same line SOMETIMES feel different. Contour Power Grips, Turbo-2-in-i, and Vise Grips are the more popular ones.
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Neptune66

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Re: To insert or not to insert
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2010, 08:12:36 PM »
I also put whote tape at the back of the thumbhole. Not all the time or in all balls. But when I feel some slippage on release, this helps for a more secure feeling.

TamerBowling

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Re: To insert or not to insert
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2010, 10:51:19 PM »
Another interesting viewpoint is Norm Duke not using grips.  He says he gets them drilled straight with absolutely no bevel.  Apparently, this ensures no grab for him or he'll cut his fingers.  It's a bit of the opposite argument here to think about.  It puts less pressure because he doesn't try to grab it to hold on to it.  You have to admit Norm let's go of the ball pretty smooth
Anyway, we're not pros so just another idea...
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Neptune66

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Re: To insert or not to insert
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2010, 11:38:21 PM »
Not comparing myself in any way to Norm Duke or any pro, but wanted to mention that I have very little bevel on my finger holes as well.

Ironically, my switch from inserts to no-inserts and nothing to do with comfort or calluses, yet ironically get fewer calluses after more games than I did with the inserts.

Maybe the inserts actually create more friction, or maybe ---since I was using the lift type--- the pitch had something to with it.

But I have a much easier time holding on to the ball with minimal bevel and although the holes look like they would be harsh on the skin, it's quite the opposite.

MrPerfect

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Re: To insert or not to insert
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2010, 11:09:01 AM »
I actually prefer the no bevel, because if you make the bevel to smooth you can have problems getting out of the ball poorly.

stopncrank

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Re: To insert or not to insert
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2010, 11:39:59 AM »
I used no grips for what seemed like forever. I too had the warmup issue during winter months, and sometimes i had to add tape to the finger holes because of my fingers shrinking during cold weather.

I eventually had to go with inserts because of loss of flexability, and my first joint on both my middle and ring fingers on my bowling hand look visably rough to this day because i refused to switch to inserts. I now have to pitch my ring finger forward because my flexability is gone.

I dont think even if i could i would go back to no inserts, just for the fact that the feel and grip are more consistent with them. I never have to worry about losing the ball on the downswing with them, and the swelling issue is a non issue for me with inserts.
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alloutsmith3

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Re: To insert or not to insert
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2010, 08:59:35 PM »
Thanks for the input guys. I'm going to talk the my pro shop and see what else we can do besides inserts cause I need to have the release be as clean as possible and I think that'll happen best without inserts. Do you guys have any other ideas for reducing tension on the hand/fingers and wrist.
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Jason Smith

al_g

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Re: To insert or not to insert
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2010, 04:44:50 PM »
I thought of one other thing that''s helped me. I wear an Ebonite Ultra-Prene wrist support - a support that wraps only around your wrist - http://www.bowlingballdiscounts.com/Accessories/Wrist_Supports/UltraPrene_Wrist_Support_Black-984 That helps stabilize/support my wrist to some degree without having to use a larger wrist support. I may have to go to one of those larger wrist supports that includes the hand as well at some point since I have more scar tissue in my hand than wrist.

From my personal experience I still think shortening your span and/or changing pitches will make the biggest difference. Even a small change like shortening your span by an 1/8" can make a huge difference. Just make sure your span isn''t stretched out like was common 10 years ago. Some pro shop guys still swear by that and using a stretched span will only make your problem worse.

Edited on 6/30/2010 4:45 PM