Post by: charlest on July 04, 2004, 06:29:56 PM
An even more perplexing problem is that even with this tremendous number of new releases the number of seriously good balls, well designed and good working balls is at a highly level than I have seen since resins first came out. Of course, maybe it is easier to recognize their potential these days and there are still a lot of stinkers being released.
I guess part of the problem is our throw-away society and the how well-off a larger percentage of the population is these. The other part is that for a corporation to succeed they need to constantly discontinue products that do not sell enough and have to invent new (or APPARENTLY new) products that will sell, even if the color is the only change, as we do see with bowling balls.
While reading about a whole new series of balls this morning, I have just about come to the conclusion that one can successfully create an arsenal from just one manufacturer. Previously to this point, I had to believe that people were not getting the best balls for all positions in said arsenal when they restricted themselves to any one manufacturer.
While we will all continue to have our preferences, based mostly on what has worked for us in the past, there are so many good balls in each line-up now, I cannot see any manufacturer not having a wide enough choice of balls, except for Lanemasters (which I cannot recommend) and Morich who is rebuilding its line-up due to a change in coverstock & manufacturer.
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"We get old too fast, and too late, smart."
Edited on 7/5/2004 9:26 AM
Post by: JOE FALCO on July 05, 2004, 10:15:51 AM
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: BOWLGNUT on July 05, 2004, 10:19:40 AM
Post by: MSC2471 on July 05, 2004, 11:01:07 AM
Matt
Post by: Walking E on July 05, 2004, 11:14:35 AM
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You weren't unlucky when you left that corner pin, so shut up about it already!!
Post by: charlest on July 05, 2004, 11:19:53 AM
quote:
Lanemasters just launched 4 new balls so why not recommend them to? They seem to have rounded out there program now too!
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The day of reckoning has arrived! People who have done harm to their fellow man must now repent or be destroyed!
Because one of their major new release, The Answer, was a major disappointment for me.
See my comments a little while back, 1-2 months, here in this OTHER forum.
I drilled it one way, then tried 3 different surface preparations, using it on 4-5 different lane surfaces. Then I redrilled it a different way and did the same: different surfaces on different oil patterns.
The ball was of virtually insignificant use and minimal hitting power in every one of its variations.
I have a letter to write to Lanemasters (this ball came directly from them) documenting all I did. I cannot in good conscience recommend any Lanemasters ball because of my experience with this one, at this point in time.
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"We get old too fast, and too late, smart."
Edited on 7/10/2004 9:22 PM
Post by: charlest on July 05, 2004, 11:41:28 AM
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Charlest, is this fascination with new balls the same fascination that golfers have for new clubs?
C'mon, DOc, that was an unfair shot. YOu know I know little about golf. I do know you can't just whack at a ball to get distance; so it's of little use to get frustration out of your system. The longest ball you hit , just like in baseball, is the one you for which you exert the least energy and you feel like you've never touch the darned little white orb!
quote:
Is there really a need to keep buying a new ball unless an old one has truly died, which is much less likely to happen if one maintains a ball as we should? Plus, its rare to use the same ball for all 3 games in league any more, so each ball does not get as much wear it would if it were used all the time.
Nope, but as a denizen of these hollowed halls, we all know the latest and greatest balls even before they are made available. So who here can admit to being able to resist the either the manufacturer's hype or all the hoopla typed by the people here who tout certain manufacturers as if they were paid by the word?
We all fall sucker to some hype sometime, no matter how well we think of ourselves.
quote:
Have enough improvements actually been made in balls over the last 2 or 3 yrs to justify discarding an old faithful and replacing it with a new product?
Now, I never said "improvements", but I do believe that refinements have been made, in both coverstocks AND core designs and, what's more important, they have made major strides in the sensitive area of matching coverstock to those cores. I think virtually all manufacturers have made large strides in that direction.
quote:
In fairness, I do think a new ball carries better at the beginning than it ever will later, despite taking care of the ball, but can we afford to keep getting new balls just because of that advantage?
Not just that, but certain balls (I cannot yet characterize what types they are) do retain their power through the years. I have and continue to see this.
quote:
If one can afford to belong to the ball of the month club and just gets a kick out of having new toys, more power to them,
Although I do occasionally buy a new ball (quite rare for me), I am personally much more likely to try to find an old one and very rarely a new used one (just got a Crunchtime, Thanks Fred!; wonderful ball, so far.).
I am using a Revolution Vengeance from 2000, a new SlayR, and a Remedy from 2001 (I think), a Boss Pearl (1997) and FIre QUantum (1996).
quote:
but is there any justification for putting a ball in the garage that has served us well and replace it with a new product?
Yes. However if it is still serving us well, then only if a newer ball fills the same role better.
quote:
I compare bowlers who have to have the latest thing out on the market to a friend of mine who gets a new set of golf clubs every yr. Fortunately, he can afford to and there is a waiting list to buy his "used" set, but his handicap remains the same as it has for yrs.
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Bones
He is a golfer, therefore (by my definition, RICH); therefore he probably just enjoying the fruits of his labor and if he can, then I almost envy him (not quite, though). Some clubs get so dirty, you just have to get of them.
The same is true of bowling balls, only more so.
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"We get old too fast, and too late, smart."
Post by: nd300 on July 05, 2004, 11:53:31 AM
I admit to being one of these people,and in a way, I am guilty of being one of those who,for the first time in my life,bought a new driver 2 years in a row. Granted,I bought them on ebay new and unhit so I got a deal. Did I need it?NO---because my other one was just as good. Why did I buy?? Mainly the price available---again on ebay.
Anyway,excuse the rambling on............
My point is that I retired my Brunswick HPD after4 yrs of service in league plus tourneys and practice so we're looking at 700 or more games on it. I was always a fan of the big B,but found several balls on ebay and this site used,single drill, from different companies,and in good enough shape to warrant purchase at a greatly reduced price from new. After plug and redrill by The Author---a great pro shop expert,btw---- they all perform quite well. My main ball is an SD-73 that he drilled Axis leverage that I absolutely love and is the first ball out of the bag.
So,yes you can build an arsenal from your favorite company with all the releases out now. And yes there are some balls out that aren't worth the price of the box they come in,but they're few and far between IMHO. What with quality Control being what it is today most companies don't make bad balls so to me it all boils down to what company you like.
Enjoy the wide variety of choices you have,experiment with new things and good luck!!!!!!!!
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Chris
Post by: Hammer3003 on July 05, 2004, 01:40:07 PM
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Bowl To Win!!!
Post by: C-G ProShop-Carl on July 05, 2004, 03:13:35 PM
I remember when If first started bowling...there were atleast 3-4 Burgandy Hammers and a Blue Hammer on every ball rack.
On the subject of every company releasing equipment that could fill an entire arsenal: I agree. Where my problem comes with staying with one company is when they produce alot of equipment and you have overlap after overlap. I have stated in the past that I used to use strictly C300------there is not a company out there now producing equipment that overlaps like they currently do. I threw Storm for awhile......same thing as C300>>>TONS of overlap.
I also do not like to TOTALLY retrict myself to one company because there are so many interesting balls being released, coverstocks, cores etc...that I like to try something different, something that is interesting. That is how I so happened upon Track. The Freak's core was different. There was nothing out there like it.
Smaller companies like Roto Grip, Dyno Thane, Track, MoRich seem to produce much less overlap than the "giants" do. They offer a great product with excellent customer service.
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Owner/Operator
C-G Pro Shop
Post by: TheDude on July 05, 2004, 04:05:35 PM
Manufacture, sub-contractors/contractors, distributors, proshops.
every level has to have it's markups and costs. Now lets compare bowling balls to computers. I think it's a good comparison. Constantly evolving technology and new releases are always around the corner.
New products are constantly in development, so even when that laptop or pc that can crack the 4Ghz mark hits the market selling for 3500 to 5000$ or more, you know somewhere in a computer lab in China or Japan there is test models that are already touching the 4.5GHZ level and faster approaching 5Ghz.
Now with computing there are no limits like there is in bowling. There is only 39 boards in a lane and it will always be about 60 feet. of course we can vary the volume of oil, generally it increases over time, so we need bowling balls that can find friction and traction of the lanes more effectively that previous models. So what do we do when we can cover every board, no matter how many units of oil is placed on the lanes? Maybe put more research into carrying, or cover durability.
Bowling balls that are presently being released can burn off oil and create friction on a modern lane surface faster than at any other point in previous history. So the question we all ask our selfs when we hear news of a ball that hooks more in oil and can handle anything regardless of how much hand we have, is where do things go from here?
When the Xcalibur Legend was released and it was better than any other urethane release before it what did people say? Wow, i have never seen a ball hook this much or score this well. Did we all think," will there be anything better than this?" well that question was answered eventually by the next release to hit the market.
The SD-73, ball banned from the pba because it flared so much or because it was increasing scores to much that things were getting out of hand.
The Danger Zone, The zone name still lives on and the name was imfamous with brunswick, and bowling.
The Hammer 3-D series, for the first time the words mass bias were being uttered in a bowling center, and people started to understand what it really was all about.
The Morich Colossus Supreme, the ball hooked soo much it had a warning sticker on it.
The Track Freak, a core design that pushed the idea of asymetrically dynamic cores were really a factor even farther than the 3-D.
The Brunswick Inferno, a coverstock that has probably been more durable than any resin to come before it.
The Track Synergy(green pearl) this ball was amazing and i still hear tales of it from my distributor. it was there best selling ball of all time for them.
Where do things go from here? Will the market change? well of course it will every market does. Will companies close, go bankrupt, or merge? Will bowling balls hook more? probably yes. does your uncle joey's black beauty hit as hard as an Xfactor? I'm willing to bet it doesn't.
This is all IMO of course, i named alot of bowling balls that i know i will remember from likely the rest of my time. These balls have reset boundries for sales, and technology.
Me well i'm just waiting for the next columbia ball that will cover more boards than my throttle does. lol. here's to hoping. Cheers.
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I am Canadian Dude! GOO BIG FIN!!! MIKA K ALL THE WAY!
Post by: charlest on July 05, 2004, 04:29:12 PM
quote:
I do not think they are releasing too many new balls however they are not really making anything new. They keep releasing the same covers and cores under different names.
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Bowl To Win!!!
On a modern production line, with the limited amount of types of materials such as go into a bowling ball, how does 1 out of a batch of 500 (AZO, VIsionary, etc) to 100,000 (Brunswick) go "bad"???
I heard from someone else here at ballreviews that Lanemasters made 3 separate types of "The Answer". The fact that they did not publicize this fact is inexcusable in today's world.
Their "bad" ball cost me money and a lot of aggravating time. As I said, I have a letter to write ...
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"We get old too fast, and too late, smart."
Edited on 7/10/2004 9:24 PM
Post by: charlest on July 06, 2004, 02:24:37 AM
Manufacturer's understand the TREMENDOUS importance of matching core to coverstock like they never did before. Balls perform, on the average, better than they ever did before, ON AVERAGE! There are ahighe rpercentage of balls that suit the large majority of bowlers, better than they ever did before.
The point of all this was not to let you remember and point out to me and to others the exceptions in days goneby, but for you to recognize, when you summarize the large majority of balls released weekly, that most of them are exactly what the designers plan them to be and they suit the games of a LOT of BOWLERS!
People listen/read! Do not read into this subject what you want there to be; read and understand what I said. You guys skim the details too fast.
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"We get old too fast, and too late, smart."
Post by: JOE FALCO on July 06, 2004, 07:43:39 AM
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: charlest on July 06, 2004, 07:46:24 AM
I try not to "chew people's heads off" unless they go totally astray and avoid the original gist of the comment. Sorry about that.
I think they went off the deep end with this one.
What you said is exactly one of my points. I am/was mostly a Columbia fan, but with no hesitation to try any other company's products. I have tried virtually every known brand. I like what works.
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"We get old too fast, and too late, smart."
Post by: Action Man on July 09, 2004, 02:06:05 PM
quote:quote:
Lanemasters just launched 4 new balls so why not recommend them to? They seem to have rounded out there program now too!
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The day of reckoning has arrived! People who have done harm to their fellow man must now repent or be destroyed!
Because one of their major new release, The ANswer, was a major flop.
See my comments a little while back, 1-2 months, here in this OTHER forum.
I drilled it one way, then tried 3 different surface preparations, using it on 4-5 different lane surfaces. Then I redrilled it a different way and did the same: different surfaces on different oil patterns.
The ball was of virtually insignificant use and minimal hitting power in every one of its variations.
I have a major letter to write to Lanemasters (this ball came directly from them) documenting all I did. It was a waste of $140 purchase price plue 2 $40 drillings.
I cannot in good conscience recommend any Lanemasters ball no matter how many they market.
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"We get old too fast, and too late, smart."
Post by: Action Man on July 09, 2004, 08:43:15 PM
I disagree with your comment about the Lane Masters bowling balls. I have purchased many of them and have been pleased with their performance.
As to your comments about the Answer bowling ball, I have purchased this ball and have scored very well with the ball.
This ball was given the highest possible rating (4 star) by Bowlers Journal and Bowling this Month magazines.
The disturbing thing about your comments, no matter the subject, is that you write like you know everything about bowling. After looking at your profile, I suggest you spend less time on the computer and more time practicing.
You can always tell when some one is "winging it" because they get caught making false statements. Give everyone a break, and go to "Iknownothing.com" and post your comment there!
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It is amazing how some people never really gain knowledge of our sport. They will never be winners or champions because they think they know every thing. If you know everything then you no longer have a willingness to learn and improve your game.
Post by: charlest on July 09, 2004, 09:09:02 PM
quote:
Ms. Charlest,
I disagree with your comment about the Lane Masters bowling balls. I have purchased many of them and have been pleased with their performance.
As to your comments about the Answer bowling ball, I have purchased this ball and have scored very well with the ball.
Glad you're happy with your version of the ball.
quote:
This ball was given the highest possible rating (4 star) by Bowlers Journal and Bowling this Month magazines.
Thus, my eagerness to pay the relatively high price for it and to try it.
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The disturbing thing about your comments, no matter the subject, is that you write like you know everything about bowling. After looking at your profile, I suggest you spend less time on the computer and more time practicing.
Odd statement. As with many others, I give my opinion, based on what I experience and learn, from many sources. If you think otherwise, I am and have always said I open to change my mind about virtually any subject.
quote:
You can always tell when some one is "winging it" because they get caught making false statements. Give everyone a break, and go to "Iknownothing.com" and post your comment there!
Since you obviously do not know me, nor have learned anything about me from my posts, it seems like you really have not learned anything yourself.
This makes me really wonder if actually read all the things I did to that "The Answer" to try to make it work. I can hardly believe you did based on the ludicrous retort you post here.
If you do not wish to read what I write on any subject, please feel free to place me on your ignore list. I will continue to offer what advice I can on the subjects that I feel I know something about. If you disagree, tell me or just post your opinion, but to tell me I know nothing is odd, to say the least, SOLELY because I disagree on one ball with you (and your friends). (FYI, did you see my comment that someone said Lanemasters actually made 3 version of this ball? If that is true and I got one that was different from yours, what would you say then?)
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"We get old too fast, and too late, smart."
Post by: charlest on July 10, 2004, 04:30:38 PM
Please be aware, aside from my and Action Man's discussion, that LaneMasters' and AZO balls are very different from one another. I pray that you are not avoiding AZO because of what I said about Lanemaster's The Answer. Also be aware that my ONLY LaneMasters' experience is with The Answer, AND I just may have gotten a lemon.
FWIW AM and I are settling this privately. I hope we can post a resolution to our expressed differences soon.
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"We get old too fast, and too late, smart."
Edited on 7/10/2004 4:31 PM
Edited on 7/10/2004 9:28 PM
Post by: BuddiesProShopcom - Bill on July 12, 2004, 05:44:03 PM
I have thrown just about very AZO/Lanemaster ball made and I haven't been disappointed with any of their balls.
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Thanks
Bill
BuddiesProShop.com
"The Place All Bowlers Shop"