BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: back to it on September 20, 2016, 05:23:34 PM
-
As a member of the USBC,most of us agree that this ridiculous of 36 ft oil,even 38 is a ruination of of sport! Like tennis first,then tennis, bowling has become a power sport. Don Carter,Dick Weber,even Earl Anthony wouldn't stand a chance on todays lanes. Throw 18+mph with lots of revs or stroke "IT" at 20+ mph ala Norm, or your out of luck. If you throw 13mph with a reactive ball,the controllability is difficult at best. All that is needed is43 ft of oil minimum. Perfect without hiigh ball speeds don't have to force or loft the ball,the "strokers"can buy their lastest hook in the box. According to the BOD of the USBC, the BPA is the one preventing a minumum oil requirement. Save 3-4ft of oil ever week,how much $ do you save a year?
-
You've obviously never bowled on a short sport pattern then. The length of oil is not the main issue.
I have to use "entry" level balls on our 41' house shot where I live. However when I go back to my hometown and bowl on a 38' shot i can use mid-range equipment.
There are too many variables from center to center to have a minimum guideline and it would cost too much money to apply
-
As a member of the USBC,most of us agree that this ridiculous of 36 ft oil,even 38 is a ruination of of sport! Like tennis first,then tennis, bowling has become a power sport. Don Carter,Dick Weber,even Earl Anthony wouldn't stand a chance on todays lanes. Throw 18+mph with lots of revs or stroke "IT" at 20+ mph ala Norm, or your out of luck. If you throw 13mph with a reactive ball,the controllability is difficult at best. All that is needed is43 ft of oil minimum. Perfect without hiigh ball speeds don't have to force or loft the ball,the "strokers"can buy their lastest hook in the box. According to the BOD of the USBC, the BPA is the one preventing a minumum oil requirement. Save 3-4ft of oil ever week,how much $ do you save a year?
Ever use Urethane? or Pearl Urethane?
Like Dr. Seuss said in Green Eggs and Ham, "try it, try it, and you may! Try it and you may, I say!"
My point: you're using a reactive ball, which will eat up the oil, on a short pattern where there is little oil to begin with. I wouldn't say that oil is the problem, but perhaps poor choice of ball selection is. As said above, Entry level reactive, or urethane would be the better ball to use.
BL.
-
It isn't "just" an oil problem.
1. Todays reactive balls not only change the conditions way too fast, but they are far more sensitive to those changes than ever before. Even slight changes in the pattern can mean major moves and adjustments.
2. Todays synthetic lane surfaces have a much wider "friction range" than old, oil soaked wood lanes. Todays lanes start out about the same as the wood lanes did, but as they dry out they offer much more friction than wood ever did. Just the nature of the material I guess.
3. Owners and proprietors are not worried sbout, or interested in, any type of rule. or condition they feel may hurt their bottom line or threaten their income/business. It won't matter what rule or rules come down the pike, unless it comes with teeth and enforcement, it will just be ignored like they are now.
Look, I don't like the modern game very much either, but the people who DO like it wouldn't like the "old" ways much either. Let's face it, a 220 average person with 19 mph ball speed probably wouldn't do to well with 35ft oil and a yellow dot on wood lanes and 3' 8" pins.
The "game" has changed, and the time for "what was" is gone. Time to accept it and move on like I finally had too. Yes, it meant that I went from being exceptional to just a "run of the mill" old guy, but time would've done that to me eventually anyway.
-
I believe the main point of this thread was that if it gets to the point where a bowler can't have average at best ball speed, and square up and play down and in(like I do) and keep the ball from crossing over without using something other than Reactive resin, then the problem in my opinion is the lane patterns and the volumes, and the NOT the bowler. I am not talking about an 85 year old guy with 10 mph ball speed, more than likely that person won't be able to use reactive...but the bowling environment SHOULD be such that normal adult with average speed and revs who is a stroker can square up and play down and in with reactive on a league shot.
Brad
-
but the bowling environment SHOULD be such that normal adult with average speed and revs who is a stroker can square up and play down and in with reactive on a league shot.
This thinking is part of the reason why bowling has kept moving away from sport and more towards recreational.
-
I believe the main point of this thread was that if it gets to the point where a bowler can't have average at best ball speed, and square up and play down and in(like I do) and keep the ball from crossing over without using something other than Reactive resin, then the problem in my opinion is the lane patterns and the volumes, and the NOT the bowler. I am not talking about an 85 year old guy with 10 mph ball speed, more than likely that person won't be able to use reactive...but the bowling environment SHOULD be such that normal adult with average speed and revs who is a stroker can square up and play down and in with reactive on a league shot.
Brad
It depends., Are you a lefty or a righty? Lane topography is shot in most centers for righties. Lefties are able to square up righties not so much unless using weak reactive or strong reactive with lots of speed and no hand. Plus the ability for players to change release and axis rotation. There are those that want to play on tougher shots and those that don't. League shots anywhere are not about showcasing your talent. It's about having fun with your buddies and that's OK as long as that is a known entity.
-
As a senior bowler who has lost ball speed I too like heavier oil on the lanes.
But if you really want to make the lanes tough, take all the oil off the lane. Plus it will eliminate the need for big hooking balls.
Oil on the lane either makes scoring easier or harder depending on how it is applied. The old excuse for lane conditioner was that it protected the lane but it's primary purpose now is to control scoring. Either for better scoring or worse.
If you don't believe a 39 foot pattern can be challenging then you have haven't bowled at the National Open in recent years.
-
Though I am usually one of the louder proponents of more difficult conditions, I can see where the OP is coming from. Current USBC and BPAA philosophy is to provide conditions that facilitate consistent and fair scoring conditions to the widest range of bowlers possible. If a center decides to deviate from that, so be it, but I doubt USBC or BPAA would actively market more difficult conditions for the average league.
And perhaps the OP didn't really explain his conditions very well. Most of us know short sport shots are challenging and one can use many different balls on them. Also realize short sport shots have as much total oil on them as long sport shots. The oil is heavier where it is applied. I also remember the days of 24-26 foot oil where swinging urethane wasn't that uncommon.
But today's league doesn't use sport shots or 24 foot oil with urethane. Imagine what would happen if the PBA put out the Cheetah or Wolf patterns with 3 units outside 10 liek a typical THS. They would be practically unplayable.
I feel for you "back to it", just keep on keeping on and hopefully this was a one time incident.
-
And perhaps the OP didn't really explain his conditions very well. Most of us know short sport shots are challenging and one can use many different balls on them. Also realize short sport shots have as much total oil on them as long sport shots. The oil is heavier where it is applied. I also remember the days of 24-26 foot oil where swinging urethane wasn't that uncommon.
But today's league doesn't use sport shots or 24 foot oil with urethane. Imagine what would happen if the PBA put out the Cheetah or Wolf patterns with 3 units outside 10 liek a typical THS. They would be practically unplayable.
Hell, it wasn't even just urethane that people used adeptly...I still remember watching in awe the way Marc Laracuente tossed the Blue Dot from the left side and cleaned house.
It isn't that 24' patterns are unplayable...it is that too many people don't know how to throw less ball because it fractures their fragile ego to learn how to take hand out of the shot or to throw a far more moderate piece of equipment. Everyone wants snow tread crap and refuses to learn how to use a spare ball as an essential piece of the arsenal. There is a reason some of us keep things like a Roto RH or a Roto Gold Grenade around...
-
I am a "senior" bowler who has averaged from 195 to 205 until I lost my speed. I realize I don't stand a chance on todays conditions and I have a closet full of balls that I can't use. I have gone to low differential equipment that does not hook as soon as it hits the lane. I find that I do better with the "old school" stuff. My bag contains a urethane ball, a pancake ball and an old Faball ball. When you get old and lose speed, it is the only option available. I am trying to rejuvenate an old Brunswick Mark 10, which would be perfect for me on todays conditions. I advise you "old-timers" to go to Ebay and hunt down the old balls that will work on the oil conditions we face today.
-
And perhaps the OP didn't really explain his conditions very well. Most of us know short sport shots are challenging and one can use many different balls on them. Also realize short sport shots have as much total oil on them as long sport shots. The oil is heavier where it is applied. I also remember the days of 24-26 foot oil where swinging urethane wasn't that uncommon.
But today's league doesn't use sport shots or 24 foot oil with urethane. Imagine what would happen if the PBA put out the Cheetah or Wolf patterns with 3 units outside 10 liek a typical THS. They would be practically unplayable.
Hell, it wasn't even just urethane that people used adeptly...I still remember watching in awe the way Marc Laracuente tossed the Blue Dot from the left side and cleaned house.
It isn't that 24' patterns are unplayable...it is that too many people don't know how to throw less ball because it fractures their fragile ego to learn how to take hand out of the shot or to throw a far more moderate piece of equipment. Everyone wants snow tread crap and refuses to learn how to use a spare ball as an essential piece of the arsenal. There is a reason some of us keep things like a Roto RH or a Roto Gold Grenade around...
I agree that today's bowler typically cannot make efficient physical adjustments to combat the conditions. The game has changed from physical adjustments to equipment adjustments and it doesn't matter whether or not one thinks it is the right way, it is just a reality. Plus, the average bowler doesn't have soft C6 Roto Grip plastic or old school pearl urethane (even though I actually have both of those balls).
And on a different note, I have seen centers put out long, heavy oil for a while just to go to a lighter and shorter oil pattern, all in the name of pro shop sales. Not saying this is the case here, but I wonder what the original conditions were like. I am all for challenging, but 99% of leagues only want fair and consistent oil patterns.
-
I get the feeling that the OP is ignorant to the reality of oil patterns. The signature says get rid of THS and sport patterns rule, and everything screams more oil and/or longer oil. A lot of sport patterns have less oil than house shots and they are far tougher to control ball reaction. Short patterns don't necessarily have less oil and long patterns don't necessarily have more. Medium patterns vary and then you throw in ratios...
The post goes completely against the signature. Now he/she is asking for some magical house shot that guides any reactive into easy scoring. I don't get it.
I'm tired of hearing "really good" bowlers whine about shots hooking too much, not enough oil, too much oil, etc. If you're that good, you will adapt. I am not at that "really good" level, but I've been constantly working on things over the past few years. It's really starting to pay off and I still have tons of room for improvement. I'm not going to let any oil pattern get me down. It's about overcoming what is out there. Don't be afraid to experiment.
-
I believe the main point of this thread was that if it gets to the point where a bowler can't have average at best ball speed, and square up and play down and in(like I do) and keep the ball from crossing over without using something other than Reactive resin, then the problem in my opinion is the lane patterns and the volumes, and the NOT the bowler. I am not talking about an 85 year old guy with 10 mph ball speed, more than likely that person won't be able to use reactive...but the bowling environment SHOULD be such that normal adult with average speed and revs who is a stroker can square up and play down and in with reactive on a league shot.
Brad
So, if the center doesn't put out a shot that allows you to play the lanes in the manner you enjoy, something is wrong? You aren't the first person I've heard say things like that. I once heard a fellow league bowlers say, "this is ridiculous; I should be able to use my favorite ball and play the lanes from here if I want to." Again, when did it become the center's responsibility to give us all the look we want?
-
36' light-oil pattern? Okay............... :-\
Let's ball down/adjust hand position and get outside and get away from the headpin. Hectic/MoJave/Breeze here we go........what's the issue? :-\
-
Exactly. I always look at it as my job to play them right, not the center's job to give me what I'm hoping for.
-
If you are bowling that slow, then you should be using a weak reactive ball or urethane. Our lead off guy who bowls around 200 avg uses just 1 ball - Storm Pitch Black. He uses a ton of revs and bowls pretty slow. If he used any of my balls, he would be hitting the 7 pin all night. I no longer believe oil is the issue. I've seen it all. Last night when I missed 9 spares I didn't blame the grip or the thumb hole like I see others doing. Instead I blamed myself lol.
-
At the end of the day the goal is to strike.......I fail to see why going outside and up the boards to strike with a MoJave or Breeze is inferior to striking on a different line with my Eternal Cell or Snap Lock.
-
My posts have been a "devil's advocate" point of view. So to continue that view, the OP didn't say what equipment he was using. The OP didn't say what his experience is in making physical adjustments.
For conversation's sake, let's say putting out more difficult conditions causes bowlers to quit bowling league (this is the belief of SEVERAL people). Let's say centers start going rogue and start putting out more difficult shots ultimately causing a reduction of a substantial number of USBC members. Do you think USBC would embrace that change? Of course not. USBC wants or needs money depending on your point of view.
And without explicitly saying so, USBC wants easy conditions. They go out of their way to devalue bowlers who seek only difficult conditions. There are even those on this site who would call it sandbagging if bowlers only bowled at dungeons and then went on to clean house at state and local tournaments.
So which is it? Has USBC and BPAA fostered an environment where easy THS is "expected"?
-
This all goes back to what I've always said. Let house shots be as easy as possible, but not recognize the scores in any manner. If you want rewards and recognition, bowl on a compliant condition. We could go back to taping the lanes and verifying because honor scores would go way down.
-
I know from first-hand experience that USBC doesn't want easy conditions; however, for various reasons, they're never going to step in and place rigid mandates on proprietors in regard to what they put out.
When I worked there, some of the most-heated discussions had were about looking for more ways to cut down honor scores and bring integrity back to the sport. The problem is the fear that mandates will be ignored or manipulated (faulty tapes) and that making things tougher will drive more members away, which is something the company just can't afford.
In the end, the proprietors are always going to put down what the bowlers demand unless the demands are unreasonable from a logistic and/or financial standpoint. If 150 men or women go to a proprietor and demand Red, White, and Blue patterns, Sport patterns, PBA patterns, etc., the proprietor will put them out rather than risk losing all of that business.
However, most bowlers don't truly want that. There are many who will claim to want tough shots out there, but they're usually the first ones threatening to quit after shooting 520 for a solid month.
-
The question proposed "So which is it? Has the USBC & BPAA
fostered an environment where easy THS is expected?"
Last season one house of two in my local area had on-going problems with their oil machine. Bottom line on just one league alone of 30 teams (5man) where averages dropped from 10 to 20 pins for a lot of folks, resulted in over half the teams jumping ship this year to the other house as did a lot of folks in other leagues. The word was many wanted to bowl where they could score close to their past averages. (Note: The house that lost all the teams finally invested in the robot FLEX machine, but a little to late to save the day at least for this season).
So YES, I do think a fairly easy THS that let's bowlers score high and makes them feel good is what most want & expect. Once a house gives bowlers a taste of the "good life" so to speak (high scores/average because of easy THS), try taking it away.....you won't like the results.
-
So YES, I do think a fairly easy THS that let's bowlers score high and makes them feel good is what most want & expect. Once a house gives bowlers a taste of the "good life" so to speak (high scores/average because of easy THS), try taking it away.....you won't like the results.
I'll preface this with the fact that I'm likely the minority here and I'm not disputing it's what most want........but I find this to be a very very bizarre mindset. I'm way, WAY, more proud of having a career average at Nationals at 201 (through 27 games) than averaging 234 (my career best in league) on an easier THS. It's not even close!
I averaged 198 over the summer in an extremely tough and challenging PBAX league and that was much more respectable than any 220-225 average for a season I could put up.
The argument for the THS, as presented, is that I should feel better about the 225+ THS scores than the roughly 200 average on sport conditions. I think that is retarded.
Again, I'm not the problem b/c I'll bowl on anything but that's my take.
-
I know from first-hand experience that USBC doesn't want easy conditions; however, for various reasons, they're never going to step in and place rigid mandates on proprietors in regard to what they put out.
When I worked there, some of the most-heated discussions had were about looking for more ways to cut down honor scores and bring integrity back to the sport. The problem is the fear that mandates will be ignored or manipulated (faulty tapes) and that making things tougher will drive more members away, which is something the company just can't afford.
In the end, the proprietors are always going to put down what the bowlers demand unless the demands are unreasonable from a logistic and/or financial standpoint. If 150 men or women go to a proprietor and demand Red, White, and Blue patterns, Sport patterns, PBA patterns, etc., the proprietor will put them out rather than risk losing all of that business.
However, most bowlers don't truly want that. There are many who will claim to want tough shots out there, but they're usually the first ones threatening to quit after shooting 520 for a solid month.
I agree that USBC truly wants the conditions to be such that more emphasis is on skill, or at least the perception of skill. But by not mandating more difficult conditions, USBC is saying easy conditions are what members should be expecting when bowling league.
And out of curiosity Gene, when you say USBC wanted to:
...cut down honor scores and bring integrity back to the sport.
are you implying by reducing the number of award scores integrity is achieved? I agree shots are probably easier than what they should be, but integrity is more than award scores and averages. I would view USBC as having integrity when they are more proactive and do what bowlers feel they should be doing instead of what they think they should be doing. It comes across as USBC is in a silo with no contact with the outside world. But today's bowler typically complains about anything USBC does or says so I understand to some extent why things are the way they are.
-
Well, are we talking integrity or credibility? Obviously, USBC has a huge credibility issue with many members. For my part, I still believe that 99.9% of the men and women working there truly love the sport and want it to thrive. Sadly, they're fighting a war on way too many fronts. Plus, far too many members want the benefits of yesteryear and more even though the company is pulling in less and less revenue. Obviously, that won't really work.
If we're talking integrity, honor scores aren't the only element, but the scoring environment does play a big part. Now, there is nothing wrong with people shooting big numbers if they're earned through quality lane play and shot-making. Sadly, I think we both know that that isn't the case often enough these days. The fact that some houses can see 8-10 300s and 5-7 800s during a typical league set proves this point. I'm sure some of those bowlers are quite talented, but the videos that go up on facebook to show their shots usually illustrate just how much room there is in some of these centers. That's why USBC tried Sport Bowling/PBA Exp. and went to Red, White, and Blue. They're trying to put more-challenging patterns out there for people. Sadly, most bowlers just don't want them.
-
I believe the main point of this thread was that if it gets to the point where a bowler can't have average at best ball speed, and square up and play down and in(like I do) and keep the ball from crossing over without using something other than Reactive resin, then the problem in my opinion is the lane patterns and the volumes, and the NOT the bowler. I am not talking about an 85 year old guy with 10 mph ball speed, more than likely that person won't be able to use reactive...but the bowling environment SHOULD be such that normal adult with average speed and revs who is a stroker can square up and play down and in with reactive on a league shot.
Brad
So, if the center doesn't put out a shot that allows you to play the lanes in the manner you enjoy, something is wrong? You aren't the first person I've heard say things like that. I once heard a fellow league bowlers say, "this is ridiculous; I should be able to use my favorite ball and play the lanes from here if I want to." Again, when did it become the center's responsibility to give us all the look we want?
I didn't really mean it like that. The Ideal league shot(for me) would be one that allows me to use my Purple Ice Executioner to start the night---sadly, not able to do that since 2008-2009. With most league shot volumes and lengths being what they are, isn't league bowling these days sort of catering to the higher speed "scenic route" bowlers moreso than the average speed/avg revs down and in strokers like myself? It almost seems like current league bowlings motto these days would be "Either jump on the bandwagon, or get left behind in their dust"..just my impressions is all.
Brad
-
Well, are we talking integrity or credibility? Obviously, USBC has a huge credibility issue with many members. For my part, I still believe that 99.9% of the men and women working there truly love the sport and want it to thrive. Sadly, they're fighting a war on way too many fronts. Plus, far too many members want the benefits of yesteryear and more even though the company is pulling in less and less revenue. Obviously, that won't really work.
If we're talking integrity, honor scores aren't the only element, but the scoring environment does play a big part. Now, there is nothing wrong with people shooting big numbers if they're earned through quality lane play and shot-making. Sadly, I think we both know that that isn't the case often enough these days. The fact that some houses can see 8-10 300s and 5-7 800s during a typical league set proves this point. I'm sure some of those bowlers are quite talented, but the videos that go up on facebook to show their shots usually illustrate just how much room there is in some of these centers. That's why USBC tried Sport Bowling/PBA Exp. and went to Red, White, and Blue. They're trying to put more-challenging patterns out there for people. Sadly, most bowlers just don't want them.
Personally, totally agree. But we have to be careful if we try to define quality lane play and shot-making. No matter the era, there were/are those who feel the current environment doesn't compare to the previous. People want to move to urethane because it was tougher in the 80s. Then those from the 70s say it was too easy in the 80s and so forth until you get to that one old guy who bowled when there were only one finger and the thumb in the ball.
-
It is not about skill. Who is to say I am more skilled because I can beat you 200 to 180 on a sport pattern even though you can beat me 230 to 210 on a house shot. It is really about versatility over the long run.
-
To clarify,I do use entry level reactive,urethane and a symmetical core plastic ball.There have been occasions when I've had to swing a blue dot :-\. I'm also not advocating making the shot tougher,adding a few feet of oil with only 3 units of oil on the outside shouldn't make it much tougher,personally I think it should be though.As a local USBC board memberI know we are losing bowlers nationally at an alarming rate and we can't do anything about it,the USBC has very little power.Btw I have bowled sport patterns and always averaged over190 beause its about throwing good consistent shots and making spares,not being able to sting 6 strikes in a row.Bowlmor is trying to get rid of leagues,one year we couldn't even get a house to host the city tournament. I now use half the hand I had.I doubt it will ever change,but as a representative I'll still fight to return to a sport that takes talent.
-
To clarify,I do use entry level reactive,urethane and a symmetical core plastic ball.There have been occasions when I've had to swing a blue dot :-\. I'm also not advocating making the shot tougher,adding a few feet of oil with only 3 units of oil on the outside shouldn't make it much tougher,personally I think it should be though.As a local USBC board memberI know we are losing bowlers nationally at an alarming rate and we can't do anything about it,the USBC has very little power.Btw I have bowled sport patterns and always averaged over190 beause its about throwing good consistent shots and making spares,not being able to sting 6 strikes in a row.Bowlmor is trying to get rid of leagues,one year we couldn't even get a house to host the city tournament. I now use half the hand I had.I doubt it will ever change,but as a representative I'll still fight to return to a sport that takes talent.
-
I thought throwing strikes was the object of the game. Ii is not about which condition requires more skill. Just as much skill required to repeat shots with lots of revs and speed as to thread the neeble on a 47 foot sport pattern . By the way, I am a 68 year old low speed stroker who is way more competitive on very long or very short sport patterns, but I have a lot of respect for young guys with power who can still compete on a variety of conditions
-
If they can still score on a tough pattern I have nothing but respect for them. It's the guys who stand left,throw hard right at an area and shoot 235,not repeating shots over a board.
-
In my experienceost guys averaging 235 arent spraying the ball. Their difficulty on flat patterns usually stems from an inability to square up. Swing area is addictive. I can still remember struggling on fresh oil when I was a kid.
-
Again, when did it become the center's responsibility to give us all the look we want?
When the bowling centers started laying down easy shots.
This whole concept of easy shots makes money....well....if your a center owner and you want your customers happy, better make sure you have the shot they want.
-
Speaking as a guy who started in the 60s, the highest scoring houses have had the most bowlers for as long as I can remember. Scratch leagues I bowled in back then were almost impossible to miss the pocket if you were any good at all. High friction balls have upped carry and that is the primary reason scoring has increased so dramatically over the years. Also bowlers are a lot better today than when I started.
-
Again, when did it become the center's responsibility to give us all the look we want?
When the bowling centers started laying down easy shots.
This whole concept of easy shots makes money....well....if your a center owner and you want your customers happy, better make sure you have the shot they want.
I just have to ask then..What IS a typical House Shot intended to accomplish, or rather WHAT type of bowler is a THS intended to benefit, or in people opinions, what type of bowler has the potential to benefit more from a house shot than other types of bowlers. From what I understand--and I only bowl in 1 house...most house shots are in the 38-41 foot range supposedly because that length range provides potential to attack the pattern from multiple angles. It has almost seemed as if the modern game, and by modern game I mean the league patterns themselves and the type of equipment the most companies are producing these days are not conducive to who I am as a bowler.
Brad
-
It's not just the patterns and equipment though. You're missing other variables like lane surface and topography.
No center is the same as another. You can see differences from pair to pair in a center as well.
-
Why all the hate for relatively easy house shot? a THS that one guy averages 230 on is a pattern that many others average 150 or less on.
Think of it like the levels of play in Softball. When I still played slowpitch with the guys, there was recreational, D, C, B, A, AA, ect. each being progressively more challenging level of play, and each having its own league.
a handicap league using a THS is no different than a rec or D level league of softball. Every sport has various levels to participate in.
I think the main reason THS is prevalent, and popular is that most bowlers are there for fun. I know a guy that averages 210 to 215 in our sport league and over 235 in his house shot league.
he bowls for the FUN; he doesn't bowl the house shot league to feel "better" or boost the ego, he bowls it because that is what he can bowl with friends and drink beer and eat nachos. Just because he has the ability to average 235 doesn't take away from his fun, nor detract from his ability on sport or PBA patterns when he wants that challenge.
if people enjoy the relative ease of a THS who are we to judge them?
-
The biggest selling point of the 40 foot house shot is that it can be attacked by multiple styles.
-
Your guy averaging 215 in sport shot is a true bowler,hats off to him. Your missing the point,not all of us can throw 17+mph. I play softball too,I don't see guys jacking 325ft homers in d league.A lot of leagues have now gone to 80% of 220. Care to do the math? All i'm asking is to lengthing the oil so all ball speeds have as much as an equal chance as everyone else. If the high rev guy throwing 17+ has 4-6 boards to hit the pocket (with incredible carry),let us have the same (minus the pins flying around).42 ft would be fair to strokers,tweeners crankers and 2 handers. As of the previous post when do houses owe us a shot we like..NEVER.Now figure out how to keep USBC membership from dropping like a rock,until there is no more goverening body,even as a limp noodle as we are now
-
You've obviously never bowled on a short sport pattern then. The length of oil is not the main issue.
I have to use "entry" level balls on our 41' house shot where I live. However when I go back to my hometown and bowl on a 38' shot i can use mid-range equipment.
There are too many variables from center to center to have a minimum guideline and it would cost too much money to apply
[/quote
Obviously you missed where i stated ive bowled many sport shots, but i know going in the 3 high series for the night aren't all going to be in the 700's. Ths or a 51' sport shot all i ask is for more lane conditioner to be able to compete with the guys able to overpower the condition
-
You've obviously never bowled on a short sport pattern then. The length of oil is not the main issue.
I have to use "entry" level balls on our 41' house shot where I live. However when I go back to my hometown and bowl on a 38' shot i can use mid-range equipment.
There are too many variables from center to center to have a minimum guideline and it would cost too much money to apply
[/quote
Obviously you missed where i stated ive bowled many sport shots, but i know going in the 3 high series for the night aren't all going to be in the 700's. Ths or a 51' sport shot all i ask is for more lane conditioner to be able to compete with the guys able to overpower the condition
-
You've obviously never bowled on a short sport pattern then. The length of oil is not the main issue.
I have to use "entry" level balls on our 41' house shot where I live. However when I go back to my hometown and bowl on a 38' shot i can use mid-range equipment.
There are too many variables from center to center to have a minimum guideline and it would cost too much money to apply
[/quote
Obviously you missed where i stated ive bowled many sport shots, but i know going in the 3 high series for the night aren't all going to be in the 700's. Ths or a 51' sport shot all i ask is for more lane conditioner to be able to compete with the guys able to overpower the condition
-
You've obviously never bowled on a short sport pattern then. The length of oil is not the main issue.
I have to use "entry" level balls on our 41' house shot where I live. However when I go back to my hometown and bowl on a 38' shot i can use mid-range equipment.
There are too many variables from center to center to have a minimum guideline and it would cost too much money to apply
[/quote
Obviously you missed where i stated ive bowled many sport shots, but i know going in the 3 high series for the night aren't all going to be in the 700's. Ths or a 51' sport shot all i ask is for more lane conditioner to be able to compete with the guys able to overpower the condition
-
If the high rev guy throwing 17+ has 4-6 boards to hit the pocket (with incredible carry),let us have the same (minus the pins flying around)
This is more like a golf situation. You want to be able to hang with the guys and gals who can bomb the ball 300+ yards off the tee, so you want senior tees instead of having to play from the tips.
I certainly get it, but there are is a problem. I don't think you're giving those 17+ high-rev guys credit for actually having any skill. It sounds like you're saying that they automatically have that advantage just by being high-rev, high-speed players. Take it from someone who dabbled with two-handed bowling for a year. Just because you can throw it fast and with a lot of hand, that doesn't mean you're going to score better. I am a much better one-handed player than I ever was with two, and my speed and rev rate are significantly lower as a one-handed player.
No matter what hand you use, approach you take, etc., etc., you still have to throw the ball toward a target with consistent speed, revs, etc. Yes, most house shots are quite easy, and many make the miss area quite large for stand left, throw right players. But everyone in the league has the option of trying to stand left and throwing right if they have the physical tools to do it. I agree that it's best if a league oil pattern is set up so that it can be attacked from multiple angles by bowlers of various styles, but it doesn't always work out that way.
-
If the high rev guy throwing 17+ has 4-6 boards to hit the pocket (with incredible carry),let us have the same (minus the pins flying around)
This is more like a golf situation. You want to be able to hang with the guys and gals who can bomb the ball 300+ yards off the tee, so you want senior tees instead of having to play from the tips.
I certainly get it, but there are is a problem. I don't think you're giving those 17+ high-rev guys credit for actually having any skill. It sounds like you're saying that they automatically have that advantage just by being high-rev, high-speed players. Take it from someone who dabbled with two-handed bowling for a year. Just because you can throw it fast and with a lot of hand, that doesn't mean you're going to score better.
I think this is a good analogy. My understanding of the counter-argument would be....."well if you don't let us hit off the senior tees 'so we can have an equal chance' then we'll all just quit. Find a way to equal out ______ (insert advantage of group of players)."
"Kill or be killed" - Nate Diaz
-
In a sport or sport-related activity, there will always be people with an advantage or disadvantage because of physical abilities.
-
In a sport or sport-related activity, there will always be people with an advantage or disadvantage because of physical abilities.
Precisely! It is inherent in the game. :)
-
If the high rev guy throwing 17+ has 4-6 boards to hit the pocket (with incredible carry),let us have the same (minus the pins flying around)
I won't quit,but I will continue to change the lane dressing rules. Btw have you seen how fast USBC membership and revenues have been dropping? If it keeps going,we may not have a governing body in the near future. Our local association is already running in the red and using monies saved from years ago. How happy would eveyone be,if to make it equal for everyone,we used no oil?
This is more like a golf situation. You want to be able to hang with the guys and gals who can bomb the ball 300+ yards off the tee, so you want senior tees instead of having to play from the tips.
I certainly get it, but there are is a problem. I don't think you're giving those 17+ high-rev guys credit for actually having any skill. It sounds like you're saying that they automatically have that advantage just by being high-rev, high-speed players. Take it from someone who dabbled with two-handed bowling for a year. Just because you can throw it fast and with a lot of hand, that doesn't mean you're going to score better.
I think this is a good analogy. My understanding of the counter-argument would be....."well if you don't let us hit off the senior tees 'so we can have an equal chance' then we'll all just quit. Find a way to equal out ______ (insert advantage of group of players)."
"Kill or be killed" - Nate Diaz