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Author Topic: Top 10 bowlers hurt by reactive resin  (Read 7181 times)

bcw1969

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Top 10 bowlers hurt by reactive resin
« on: June 12, 2015, 10:56:12 AM »
I stumbled across this online and thought it was interesting.

http://above180.com/2012/08/top-10-bowlers-hurt-by-reactive-resin/

Brad
« Last Edit: June 13, 2015, 12:49:17 AM by bcw1969 »

 

spencerwatts

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Re: Tope 10 bowlers hurt by reactive resin
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2015, 11:38:53 AM »
Reactive resin for some of us scratch bowlers in that era gave us an extra board of area on the lane, and that was mind blowing. (I know it was for me.) But it also leveled the playing field in many ways because the 175-average hack who might leave the 4-5-7 on a pocket hit now had something in his (or her) hand that gave them greater striking potential. Invariably, that 175-average hack now was carrying a 210 average and looking like a monster.

Ball speed avg. (18.25 mph)
Rev rate avg. (400-428 rpm)
Still refusing to accept AARP eligibility and membership cards

avabob

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Re: Tope 10 bowlers hurt by reactive resin
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2015, 01:25:24 PM »
Disagree totally about the 175 hacks.  Most of the 175 hacks during the urethane era were playing strike or no count and couldn't pick up a spare to save their lives.  Resin certainly didn't help their spare shooting.  The guys who were helped by resin were the tweeners like me.  We couldn't rev the ball enough to carry going away from the pocket on the short patterns, and we couldn't throw it straight enough to play up the boards for a more direct angle to the pocket.  Resin allowed me to play closer to the oil line and still get stronger reaction going into the back end, something I couldn't do with urethane.   Yes resin gave me an extra board of out angle, but it helped me more when instead of trying to use the extra board, I played closer to the oil line and let the later release of rotational energy help my carry.  It was the guys who tried to exploit the extra out angle who were hurt.   

Resin hurt the guys who wanted to rev the ball and slow hook the lane like Monacelli and Ballard.  Also, the biggest thing that has impacted the way the game is played in the resin era is the amount of oil that is used to combat the friction created by the resin balls.  Long high volume patterns reward the old practice of end over end roll rather than trying to open up the lane from coast to coast.  Look at all the best pros and they have all gone way more end over end than they did 10 years ago.  Rash, Barnes are best examples.  Even Pete has cut his axis rotation a bunch.  Look at the way Russel and Barret play the Badger. 

Major changes in the playing environment have always forced fundamental changes in the most effective release, and hurt those who could not make the necessary changes.  Resin balls didn't hurt power players any more than short oil and urethane lane finish hurt slow speed strokers going in to the mid 70's. 

The inevitable evolution of the playing environment also explains why the best players go straighter as the progress through their career.  Examples: Duke, WRW, Barnes.   I knew half a dozen scratch bowlers at my local level who suddenly became dominant when short oil came in.   

Bottom line resin didn't hurt the Ballard Monacelli type of player any more than urethane lane finish hurt the great strokers of the late 60's like Neff, Stefanich, Ritger.   
« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 01:28:35 PM by avabob »

bradl

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Re: Tope 10 bowlers hurt by reactive resin
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2015, 01:33:21 PM »
While I could agree with most of his list, there are some that I can't.

PDW should not be on that list. He had off-lane issues to deal with, yes, but resin surely did not kill his game.

Amleto should be on that list. While he could rip the cover off of urethane and still control it, resin was too erratic for him to control. That saw him drop down significantly, but while he did make a great adjustment and comeback, back then, you could easily see a "holy ****, what do I do now?!?" look to his game.

Those that should be on the list, in no particular order, regardless of PBA, LPBT, or PWBA: Brad Snell, Ron Williams, Bob Palumbo, Donna Adamek, Lisa Wagner, Mike Durbin, Pete McCordic, and Bob Benoit.

BL.

kidlost2000

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Re: Tope 10 bowlers hurt by reactive resin
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2015, 01:49:10 PM »
Who cares. Either you are great enough to adapt and survive or you are not. The only thing that hurt PDW in the 90s was WRWJr.

I love reading how this bowler or that was too powerful and couldnt control the new balls…..that is down right funny.
…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

avabob

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Re: Tope 10 bowlers hurt by reactive resin
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2015, 03:15:57 PM »
Agree totally kidlost.  The 80's ruined a lot of potentially good young players because the environment at the time made it appear that "grip it and rip it" was some kind of fundamental necessity to being a good bowler.  Heck, even when I was a kid growing up in the 60's I will admit that it was more fun when I could hook the lane rather than have to adjust to tighter conditions, but I learned that the way to win was to be able to play straight until the lane opened up and gave me some area.  In the 80's the lane conditioning  rules and the lane men gave everyone free back end right out of the gate.  No reason to learn anything else.

Like I said in another post, resin didn't help me because it gave me the ability to hook the lane more, it helped me because I knew how to take advantage of getting it to hit without hooking the lane more.  Too many guys when the got their first resin balls were like kids in a candy store until they realized that just because the ball let them go coast to coast didn't mean that it was a positive.  Then they blamed the straighter low rev players because resin restored some finesse to the game as a method to carry. 

WRW had already figured out that straighter was greater even before the introduction of resin.  Resin just allowed him to become even more versatile.  I wonder how many people know that he won a PBA stop in the 90's using plastic.     

morpheus

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Re: Tope 10 bowlers hurt by reactive resin
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2015, 04:00:22 PM »
I think it's hilarious that WRW is put on a pedestal when he had one only one title from 1988 - 1991 preceding Ebonite's Crush R release in 1992 when he won more titles in a single season than in his previous 10 years on tour but the balls didn't help him? Without reactives, he's a HOF with 20 titles at best based on the first 10 years of his career and in what sport do you see a very good player become the greatest player in the history of their respective sport 10 years later without a substantial change in technology.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 04:02:36 PM by morpheus »
#AFutureForMembership #WhoDoesUSBCWorkFor

back to it

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Re: Tope 10 bowlers hurt by reactive resin
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2015, 07:29:06 PM »
Who cares. Either you are great enough to adapt and survive or you are not. The only thing that hurt PDW in the 90s was WRWJr.

I love reading how this bowler or that was too powerful and couldnt control the new balls…..that is down right funny.
Guess Earl Anthony was great until plastic,sucked until urethane,than was POT 3 more straight years,while Roth and Holman became ghosts.Avabob,totally agree!What you couldn't do physically was now available for purchase.Anyone not able to throw 18 mph with a lot of hand,lost a lot of control.I have proposed a minumum of 40 ft and 29 ml of oil with % the same become the rule,but the BPAA fights it(can you say Bowlmor,Amf,brunswick) whose customers come to grab a house ball,throw it in the middle straight and drink $50 booze and pay 75.                                       
Btw kidlost you want to put up $$$$ on a pro sportshot name it,have enough to lose.I probably out averaged you on urethane than you do on this joke... 191 sport shot,3 time jr high avg champ(217) and 1999 all events in nationals
« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 07:34:36 PM by back to it »
Get rid of THS. Sport shot rules!

kidlost2000

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Re: Tope 10 bowlers hurt by reactive resin
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2015, 08:58:06 PM »
Who cares. Either you are great enough to adapt and survive or you are not. The only thing that hurt PDW in the 90s was WRWJr.

I love reading how this bowler or that was too powerful and couldnt control the new balls…..that is down right funny.
Guess Earl Anthony was great until plastic,sucked until urethane,than was POT 3 more straight years,while Roth and Holman became ghosts.Avabob,totally agree!What you couldn't do physically was now available for purchase.Anyone not able to throw 18 mph with a lot of hand,lost a lot of control.I have proposed a minumum of 40 ft and 29 ml of oil with % the same become the rule,but the BPAA fights it(can you say Bowlmor,Amf,brunswick) whose customers come to grab a house ball,throw it in the middle straight and drink $50 booze and pay 75.                                       
Btw kidlost you want to put up $$$$ on a pro sportshot name it,have enough to lose.I probably out averaged you on urethane than you do on this joke... 191 sport shot,3 time jr high avg champ(217) and 1999 all events in nationals

Most of what you wrote i cannot deciphere. But im guessing you think you make sense. Earl Anthony was great no matter what ball was in his hand even on the senior tour throwing resin. He can adapt. He doesnt make excuses, or need others too. Thats my point.

Congrats on whatever it is you bowl, i guess it makes you feel good about yourself. I have no issues bowling anyone, not sure what that has to do with what is posted just like the rest of your response.


I can assume after reading your profile you dont like todays bowling balls?
« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 09:06:09 PM by kidlost2000 »
…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

Walking E

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Re: Tope 10 bowlers hurt by reactive resin
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2015, 10:35:37 PM »
I always thought that Robert Smith and possibly Bob Vespi were hurt the most by reactive resin.

avabob

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Re: Tope 10 bowlers hurt by reactive resin
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2015, 10:48:43 PM »
I will tell you exactly who was hurt the most by resin.  The list is identical to the guys who were helped by urethane when it replaced plastic.

Power ( in terms of rev rate )trumped accuracy during the urethane short oil era   Resin  helped guys who were accurate enough to make use of it. 

If you go back in the history of the modern game the greatest players of any era were never the guys who hooked the lane the most, except during the 10 years from 1981 to 1991. 

Juggernaut

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Re: Top 10 bowlers hurt by reactive resin
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2015, 06:58:45 AM »
 Many here have some good opinions on this subject, but I actually believe it is more than many realize.

 Hurt by resin?  That's really a misnomer.  Resin didn't really "hurt" anyone, what it did was cause a paradigm shift in what was now the most effective way to play the game.

 Rubber, polyester, and even urethane, seemed to work better on modern urethane finished lanes when more power was supplied. This was the advent of the power game.

 At this point, the game changed from one of finesse and control, to one of power and strength. The harder playing surface rewarded those whose physical abilities tended toward medium speed, rev dominance, and hitting up through the ball at release. This was deemed as the correct way to bowl, or at least the highest scoring way.

 Resin didn't hurt anyone, but it did change this fact.  Physically strong, lower speed, higher rev bowlers had lost some of their advantage due to resins ability to capitalize on friction.

 Suddenly, people who couldn't generate enough friction with their release, didn't have to because the ball created more simply in its physical makeup.

 At first, not many seemed to fully understand what was happening. For a long time, the old ways were still thought of as "correct", and human nature being what it is, those who had been dominant with the power style did not like it one bit that the dominance of "their" style had suddenly been removed by technology. I WAS ONE OF THEM!

 Resin didn't "hurt" anyone, but it DID change the way it is done. Some were already predispositioned to take advantage of resin, just like some of us were to take advantage of the power game when it came along.

 I'm still decent with resin, but not dominant at all. It is all I can do to keep up with decent guys now, where I could run over people back then.

 I've had to make quite a few changes. I've been able to make them better than many, and worse than some.

 As weak and cliched as it sounds, it really is as simple as adapt and survive, or don't adapt and die. 
 When the paradigm shifts, those favored by the changes will be dominant. I had my day, but that day is over, and a new one begun.

 Remember, a bad day of bowling is better than a good day at work, right?
Learn to laugh, and love, and smile, cause we’re only here for a little while.

avabob

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Re: Top 10 bowlers hurt by reactive resin
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2015, 11:58:03 AM »
Very accurate analysis Juggernaut.  If it is correct that resin balls hurt some styles, then it would be equally correct to say that urethane balls also hurt some styles. 

The fact is that every significant environmental change in the game over the last 70 years has hurt certain styles.  When lacquer replaced shellac, the looping figure eight full rollers ( Ned Day )and soft spinners became obsolete.  When urethane finish then synthetics replaced lacquer the end over end soft roll became obsolete.  When resin enhanced urethane balls replaced pure urethane, slower speeds became a liability