What happened? Someone got their feelings hurt? Can't discuss the lousy Usbc here? I wouldn't care if they folded. Another sanctioning group will take over. People act like we need them, they need us and that's how it works. A member suggested to them to raise the fee....ok..what if another member suggested to lower the fee? Give me a break. This is and was the worst organization that ever tan bowling. Again, its not the 5 bucks, or 1 dollar..its we got nothing in the past and now they want more for doing less.
It's a joke and the joke us on the bowlers. When is the last time the Usbc inspected a lane at anyone of your locations? Case closed.

Quote from: Joe Cool on January 26, 2016, 04:46:17 PM

That goes both ways Gene.  Not everybody that is less than thrilled fits your description, but people always resort to calling names when they have no other points to make.

The whole point of the merger was to solve the money issues of the membership loss.  Why hasn't that worked?  Why do they need more money?  Some of us actually understand business and would love to have some sort of explanation/proof of why they need more money and what exactly they are going to do with it.  If you find that an unreasonable stance to take, feel free to just give them some of your money.  I'm sure they'll take a donation as long as you don't ask them what they are going to do with it.

I usually agree with you, but in this case, I think you need to grow up.  It is possible to have valid concerns with USBC without wanting another key chain.  Why is it that anybody that has the nerve to question the great USBC is automatically a whiner?

Joe,

I have plenty to say on the topic of USBC's function as NGB, and I've articulated those thoughts countless times on these boards over the years. As such, believe me when I say that yesterday's comments did not come as a result of having nothing better to say. I think that I've just grown weary of saying the same things over and over again and having it fall on deaf ears.

In regard to your next point, I wasn't really seeking to call out anyone/everyone who questions USBC; lord knows the organization has made its mistakes over the years. Additionally, I think that people have the obligation to closely monitor people and entities in charge and to hold them accountable for inappropriate conduct. But, sadly, a large number of the most vocal dissenters on this site seem to do nothing but whine, call names, and make unfounded accusations. Again, that is not true of everyone who questions the organization, but it seems to be true of quite a few people around here.

Should USBC members be told to what ends the extra $5 would go? Sure, there is nothing wrong with that. I don't think I ever said that was unreasonable. I will tell you though that my guess is that you're going to hear that it is going to go toward operating costs. One thing a lot of people just can't seem to get through their heads around here is that we're no longer in the glory days of bowling.

USBC isn't banking millions of dollars and operating with a healthy surplus of funds each year. With membership dwindling year after year, they're being forced to cut staff, cut programs, and raise costs just to stay in operation. How is that any different than a landlord or leasing company raising rent every year or a cable/satellite provider upping your monthly payment every so often? When those things happen, do you get extra amenities or channels? I've never heard of it going that way. So why do so many people expect USBC to provide everything it used to provide and more when there is less money than ever coming in and all of its expenses have gone up?

Nevertheless, again, if members want to know specifically what the proposed dues increase would contribute to, I think USBC should make that known; however, I won't blame USBC for being less than enthusiastic about releasing that info (if that's even how the organization feels about it) since it is likely to give the whiners another chance to say, "look, they're charging us more money, and we're not getting anything new for it."

The simple fact is this, ladies and gentlemen: We're never going back to the good old days where your $18/year (what I paid this year for national/local combined) entitles you to a new ring and a bunch of coasters/patches every year. To be honest, ABC/USBC's mistake was giving all of that crap out in the first place. The NGB never should've been about awards and all of that. It should've been about upholding the playing rules, managing the playing environment and equipment, and growing the sport. That's what our money should be used for, and, from my perspective, USBC is still working to achieve all of those goals. I'm not saying the organization has done or is doing all the right things in regard to those goals, but I think that they're making an honest effort. As such, I still think that I am getting my money's worth through my membership. Clearly, there are people who feel the opposite, and they are entitled to that. I just hope that those people take a good look and think through what things will be like if USBC goes away and we're left with no governing body. If you think bowling has problems now, wait until it's an actual free for all.

I hope that provides a more mature perspective as to my take on this issue. I will agree with you though; my previous response was childish. But I have to admit, any time I see a golden opportunity to call someone a douche canoe, I tend to take it. It's just too good a term to pass up! Be well, sir!

Great response Gene!  I've been off the boards for about a year and just came to read about the tourney in Reno and saw this thread.  Your response didn't seem like a normal Gene response, but it makes much more sense now...especially the last part.

Wanting the USBC to do the things the USGA does is just unrealistic.  The cash cow US Open supports everything the USGA does. 

And all the major golf organizations, with major corporate backing, were behind starting The First Tee to get kinds involved in golf.  The USBC spending a million here or there isn't enough to make a real difference in youth bowling.  Go to the first tee website, look at the list of corporate sponsors and the list of trustees.  If you want the USBC to really make a push to get juniors involved it's going to take a lot more than a $5 increase in dues.

I don't really want to get into specifics about people at USBC/BPAA, but do we really have the most qualified team to turn the ship around when vast majority of educated/experienced leaders have been fired or laid off leaving only a handful of people fearing for their jobs that have become "yes men". I for one think you have to tear it down in order to build it back up starting with creating a system and culture of transparency/accountability. If I thought the system could work, I'd personally pay $50 a year in dues to improve our sport but for now it's a vote of no confidence.

My 2 complaints about USBC have been the same over the years. 

One is that they were supposed to solve the money issue by merging and that seems to have only lasted a few years before they started cutting people and services.  If the merger was a financial solution, it should have lasted at least for some period of time, so why didn't it?  I don't really want to give more money to an organization that mismanaged it before.  It has nothing to do with $5 for me.  I'll pay $50 sanction fee if you can give me an organization that can provide awesome services to bowlers of all levels.  I don't want to give another penny to one that has a worrisome history and no indication that they've identified why they failed or implemented ways to make sure it doesn't continue.

The second is that they seem to have completely lost touch with the "average" bowler.  Most bowlers don't come to this site or any other sites like this.  They don't say what they care about here or on Facebook because all they care about is coming out and having a good time with friends.  If they can win along the way, that's great but not a requirement.  It's a social game for them.  So while we have a small percentage capable of competing for things like Team USA, the PBA, etc, most bowlers don't care about that at all.  Bowling in the Olympics is not on their radar at all.  When USBC wants to know things, they ask elite bowlers.  They ask focus groups of elite bowling people they put together.  They ask anyone and everyone other than the actual league bowlers that make up the vast majority of their membership (who only join USBC because they are told they have to in order to bowl in the league).  Some (not all by any means) of those regular bowlers ask "what do I get for my $20?" every year.  It's getting to be a harder question to answer.  They don't need a tournament average.  The rules for all intents and purposes at their level have been the same for decades.  Many leagues are very low prize pools, so bonding (which they can do without USBC) isn't a huge issue for them.  USBC eliminated the awards saying they are a governing body and not in the awards business, and in the same breath they tout discounts you can get through them as a reason to be a member.  Hypocritical much or were you just saying that to get rid of the awards and save a few $$$ (while claiming money had nothing to do with it)? 

I don't trust them.  I believe they lied about the motivations for getting rid of the awards, and I believe they were irresponsible with the money they got as a result of the merger until they couldn't look the other way any more.  I cannot justify giving any more money to an organization that I don't trust to do the right thing with that money.  I agree that things are more expensive and to provide the level of service I expect, they need more money.  I've seen nothing in terms of what they are going to do with extra money.  Other than layoffs and cutting personnel I've seen nothing that they are doing to resolve the current money issues.  Everything is a reaction and nothing is proactive.  They haven't been able to stop the membership decline (certainly much of that part isn't their fault).  They need someone more forward thinking to run the ship.  I've seen some ideas from people like Riggs that are interesting and at least worth exploring.  Doing the same thing and expecting a different result is insanity.  If they are going to fail anyway (which is the direction we're headed), let's take a chance and blow it up big time.  Who knows, maybe something positive can come from trying something completely off the wall.  At this point, there's nothing to lose.  Failure is the only option on the current course.

I agree with at least some of that, Joe. Yes, there has been mismanagement over the years; however, I look at it as more of a case of them having invested in programs/ideas that just haven't paid off the way they hoped they would as opposed to people just being out and out irresponsible.

I think that kind of goes to your statements about the focus groups and Joe Bowler. USBC has always sought to elevate the game above the reputation of something to entertain a bunch of sloppy, beer-guzzling men and women. Now, is that what/who a large segment of league bowlers are? Maybe, but I can understand why the NGB doesn't want to endorse that image. Heck, if nothing else, that image doesn't really attract big sponsors. I also think that a lot of the membership decline was going to happen anyway and that there really isn't much USBC (or anyone) could've done to stop it. There is just so much competition for people's entertainment dollars these days. You also have to look at the league format. Fewer people in the younger age groups want to commit to a 33 week season. Now, proprietors are welcome to offer split-season or short-season leagues, but they don't like doing that because they've always loved the guaranteed revenue that comes with the old format.

Long story short, yes, USBC has tried a lot of things that just haven't paid off, and those things have contributed to the organization's financial problems. I'm not going to say that they've contributed to the declining membership numbers because I think that was going to happen anyway.

Lastly, I'm not against your idea of enacting radical changes. I even preached that to a degree while I was still an employee. I had the same idea you did, which is that it's better to take a membership hit in the short term by making sweeping changes that may bring more and more people back down the road. I can tell you from experience that that idea was usually shot down because they fear, financially speaking, they can't afford to take that short-term hit without being forced to close up shot all together. Basically, they're in the hurt locker, and it's not looking a whole lot brighter any time soon.

I would argue that bowling is more in touch with their average member than most other organizations.  As far as asking elite bowlers for their opinions, elite bowlers are usually the ones most involved. 

Do you think the USGA is in touch with their average member?  The average golfer isn't even good enough to participate in a USGA sponsored event. 

I'm not a USGA member, so I don't really care.  If we're being honest, most bowlers aren't good enough to participate in the USBC Tournament either.

I never said my expectations are perfect or even 100% realistic.  It's just how I view things from where I sit and the people I talk to.  I'm not advocating quitting USBC; on the contrary I think I want to see a more aggressive USBC.  I'd also like to see a more transparent one.  Probably not realistic, but I'd like to see it.  USBC in theory sounded great 12 years ago.  Right now it hasn't gone as well as expected/hoped. 

Quote from: morpheus on January 27, 2016, 11:38:07 AM

I don't really want to get into specifics about people at USBC/BPAA, but do we really have the most qualified team to turn the ship around when vast majority of educated/experienced leaders have been fired or laid off leaving only a handful of people fearing for their jobs that have become "yes men". I for one think you have to tear it down in order to build it back up starting with creating a system and culture of transparency/accountability. If I thought the system could work, I'd personally pay $50 a year in dues to improve our sport but for now it's a vote of no confidence.

So when did these "educated/experienced leaders" exist at USBC again? You have said that they have screwed everything up for the past two decades(Which the USBC hasn't been in existence that long) and now you claim they have been fired.

Which one is it?

Here's the logic...good people don't stay on a sinking ship so you're left with people that have limited options and are rarely the cream of the crop. Anyone that has a difference of opinion with leadership doesn't last long so you have a lot of "yes men".