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Author Topic: Topic locked...what a joke  (Read 27166 times)

12XSECH

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Topic locked...what a joke
« on: January 16, 2016, 01:09:23 PM »
What happened? Someone got their feelings hurt? Can't discuss the lousy Usbc here? I wouldn't care if they folded. Another sanctioning group will take over. People act like we need them, they need us and that's how it works. A member suggested to them to raise the fee....ok..what if another member suggested to lower the fee? Give me a break. This is and was the worst organization that ever tan bowling. Again, its not the 5 bucks, or 1 dollar..its we got nothing in the past and now they want more for doing less.
It's a joke and the joke us on the bowlers. When is the last time the Usbc inspected a lane at anyone of your locations? Case closed.

 

12XSECH

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Re: Topic locked...what a joke
« Reply #106 on: January 27, 2016, 02:02:19 PM »
Has the Usbc grown the sport? No. Did the Usbc lose a million or so members? Yes. Has the Usbc cut back on programs? Yes.  Does this sound like a rate increase is justified? No. They are a sinking ship, throwing more cash at a poorly run company will not make it better. They need new management, new ideas etc... Running the same system will get the same results with or without an increase.

kidlost2000

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Re: Topic locked...what a joke
« Reply #107 on: January 27, 2016, 02:36:00 PM »
Hope they figure something out. Between them and the owners of the PBA bowling has some obstacles to overcome.
…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

Perfect Approach Pro Shop

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Re: Topic locked...what a joke
« Reply #108 on: January 27, 2016, 03:15:52 PM »
    I still say getting member involved in change is a start. Almost everyone has or has access to computer. They can't operate and fix things from Texas. Do a 50 week road show. Get a panel of USBC staff and have them visit 50 states in 52 weeks. Some states bowling associations are run better than others. Hold meeting in each state capital and allow any USBC member to attend. Find out what's broke and needs attention before asking for more money. At least they could put together an analysis report and present it showing what issues they are giving attention too and how much funding they are requesting for the fixes. Know this is far fetched, but it's an idea.
J. Helton
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Gene J Kanak

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Re: Topic locked...what a joke
« Reply #109 on: January 27, 2016, 03:17:52 PM »
Has the Usbc grown the sport? No. Did the Usbc lose a million or so members? Yes. Has the Usbc cut back on programs? Yes.  Does this sound like a rate increase is justified? No. They are a sinking ship, throwing more cash at a poorly run company will not make it better. They need new management, new ideas etc... Running the same system will get the same results with or without an increase.

Has USBC grown the sport - If you look at the number of high school and collegiate bowling programs out there, yes, USBC has helped grow the sport.

Did USBC lose a million or so members - Technically, I guess you could say that, but you have to realize that the number of certified bowlers was going down long before ABC, WIBC, and YABA merged to form USBC. Now, as many others have discussed, those losses were inevitable (at least to some degree) due to the changing landscape of sports and entertainment. Sure, if USBC were a flawless NGB, I'm sure a few bowlers here and there would have hung on, but if you blame USBC for the majority of those losses, I think you are WAY off base.

Do they need a dues increase? - If the organization is going to continue to exist, they probably do.

12XSECH, In the end, it's clear that you don't like USBC or believe in the people running it and what they're trying to do. You're entitled to that opinion, and you're certainly not alone. Okay, so if you want that organization to go away, I certainly hope that you have a very detailed plan that lays out who needs to take control and what specific actions they need to take to bring bowling back to where it belongs. I'll be honest; all I'm hearing is that you KNOW that USBC sucks and is doing it all wrong. Okay, so tell me who/what wouldn't suck and what specific, realistic steps those people/entities can take to make the changes that you imply are so easy to make.

trash heap

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Re: Topic locked...what a joke
« Reply #110 on: January 27, 2016, 03:29:33 PM »
Why is it that the PBA can't draw the ratings?

Five years back when I was member of a Monday night men's league in my area, there would be probably about 8 guys out of 100 that watched the PBA the previous day. Wouldn't be surprised if it is now 5 out of 100. I am sure this kind of ratio is probably the same across many centers today in the U.S. Maybe in areas where bowling is more popular there is more.

Now go back 40 - 50 years ago; I am sure there were more watching PBA.

What happened?

Any old timers out there that would like to chime in,

What made it exciting back then for you?

What kept you coming back for more week after week to watch it?

Is the PBA really that different today than back then?
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milorafferty

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Re: Topic locked...what a joke
« Reply #111 on: January 27, 2016, 03:41:57 PM »
Why is it that the PBA can't draw the ratings?

Five years back when I was member of a Monday night men's league in my area, there would be probably about 8 guys out of 100 that watched the PBA the previous day. Wouldn't be surprised if it is now 5 out of 100. I am sure this kind of ratio is probably the same across many centers today in the U.S. Maybe in areas where bowling is more popular there is more.

Now go back 40 - 50 years ago; I am sure there were more watching PBA.

What happened?

Any old timers out there that would like to chime in,

What made it exciting back then for you?

What kept you coming back for more week after week to watch it?

Is the PBA really that different today than back then?


Not an old timer, but I can give one possible reason. Options. When I was a kid, we had three TV channels. You watched whatever was available.
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WOWZERS

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Re: Topic locked...what a joke
« Reply #112 on: January 27, 2016, 04:20:59 PM »
What was on TV Saturday afternoons 20+ years ago? Not much? Saturday morning cartoons ran till noon and then some pretty bland programming on the few channels available. Once College Football and College Basketball exploded, there was less time for other items on Saturday afternoon, thus the move of bowling to a different night. Add in the digital revolution and more options, cheaper options, and people dropped bowling.

Obviously 12 has an agenda, and 12 is right that many bowlers have been lost while the USBC has been in charge, but a study needs conducted to find out WHY the bowlers no longer sanction. We cannot assume the reason is the USBC or another reason. I would venture centers closing, causing a longer commute, longer work hours, different work shifts, more demand for time at home, and bowling was squeezed out. Add in a blah economy and increasing prices to be competitive to bowl and you have a storm of reasons for people to not bowl.

12XSECH

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Re: Topic locked...what a joke
« Reply #113 on: January 27, 2016, 05:18:30 PM »
You cant use the argument that there are many other things for people to do with their time now. If that is the case, why has golf and tennis rose up to where they are now? The baseball league I play in has more teams then ever before, the adult baseball league is huge all over the country. Go to a golf course and try to get a tee time...around here they are all booked. So people are still out doing things with their time...its just not bowling anymore. The parent child leagues use to be big around here, now its down to nothing.
I cant fix the usbc problems but like I said before, this management team that they have has failed and are continuing to fail. Change needs to start at the top, not with the 10 dollar an hour guy that answers the phone.
I also dont know any kids that watched the high schoolers on espn. Just like baseball or football the kids want to see "Tom Brady", Mike Trout etc... and in bowling they want to see Weber, Belmonte....They dont want to see Johnny Jr from Oakmont HS. Stars bring out fans, not 16 year old amateurs.

milorafferty

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Re: Topic locked...what a joke
« Reply #114 on: January 27, 2016, 05:52:25 PM »
You cant use the argument that there are many other things for people to do with their time now. If that is the case, why has golf and tennis rose up to where they are now? The baseball league I play in has more teams then ever before, the adult baseball league is huge all over the country. Go to a golf course and try to get a tee time...around here they are all booked. So people are still out doing things with their time...its just not bowling anymore. The parent child leagues use to be big around here, now its down to nothing.
I cant fix the usbc problems but like I said before, this management team that they have has failed and are continuing to fail. Change needs to start at the top, not with the 10 dollar an hour guy that answers the phone.
I also dont know any kids that watched the high schoolers on espn. Just like baseball or football the kids want to see "Tom Brady", Mike Trout etc... and in bowling they want to see Weber, Belmonte....They dont want to see Johnny Jr from Oakmont HS. Stars bring out fans, not 16 year old amateurs.

Sorry, but Golf has been on a decline the past several years, so that argument is invalid. Tennis, maybe, but not golf.
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WOWZERS

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Re: Topic locked...what a joke
« Reply #115 on: January 27, 2016, 05:56:07 PM »
12...you must not of read the other thread where I did explain how other sports took off. I know people who want to be able to go outside and can reenact what he/she sees on the TV for cheap or no additional money than what has already been spent. Someone has a single golf club, he/she can hit one ball around the back of the yard. Basketball? Shoot hoops. Hit a baseball or throw a baseball...all cost NOTHING to do once you have the equipment AND you can play them at home without going anywhere. Bowling???? Not so much. You have to spend and spend and if you want to practice or just toss a ball for the heck of it, you have to get in your car and drive to the local alley and pay. Nothing like the other sports. SO I can absolutely see why someone stopped bowling or following bowling and switched to golf or baseball or basketball or whatever.

And yes, golf is on the way down as well. In my area, 3 courses within 15 miles have closed within the past 2 years. 

12XSECH

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Re: Topic locked...what a joke
« Reply #116 on: January 27, 2016, 06:32:16 PM »
wowzer, Anyone can throw a baseball or shoot hoops...But to play in a league you still have to buy equipment, drive to the field etc...and most of these kids teams are travel teams now and play 60 games or more in the spring / summer. You can hit a golf ball in the yard...but to play you have to go to a course and pay to play...and it cost a lot more then bowling. BTW Golf in my area has not slowed down at all. It might be down on tv because Tiger is out but on the course its packed.
Bowling is so down you cant even find it on the espn website. They have Criquet (sp) but not bowling... Why is that? Unless they changed something the last time i looked. Bowling is not listed in the sports section of any newspaper that I know of either. Plus who wants to watch a tournament that was played 6 weeks ago? Do we watch taped baseball games or football etc 6 weeks later? No... Can the usbc at least try to get bowling more in the spot light? Try to get it listed on espn.com or in a sports section of a newspaper? The usbc should spent more of its money on promotions instead of moves across the country. There are plenty of improvements that can be made but they pretty much have done nothing but the bare minimum.

itsallaboutme

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Re: Topic locked...what a joke
« Reply #117 on: January 27, 2016, 06:46:26 PM »
Golf in most areas peaked about 10 years ago. 

You could always play those other games in your yard and had to drive to a bowling center to bowl, so that sure isn't the reason participation is down.  A lot of people will say it's because of more options of entertainment.  This is partially true, but essentially bowling has been priced out of it's blue collar background.

WOWZERS

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Re: Topic locked...what a joke
« Reply #118 on: January 27, 2016, 07:04:54 PM »
You guys just hit the nail on the head. Both of you explained that you might be able to play in your yard but to be in a league you would have to travel. Well...many of the folks I know that quit bowling are staying at home because he/she needs the money to raise a family or the cost just got too high. So he/she goes outback with his/her kids and can play together rather than drive somewhere and pay. So yes, to play in a league you would need to travel and pay, but that is not what the ones I know are doing. Maybe in your areas, but not here. Everything is dieing here. As I said before, golf courses are closing, bowling alleys are closing, the only ice skating/hockey rink closed. Why? Because NOBODY is going somewhere to pay to play. But still, the kids and parents can watch something on TV, like basketball or baseball, and go out back and play themselves right now. With the down economy and less financial freedom, there is an attraction for that.

Bottom line, I said before and will say again, a true study needs conducted to see why people are quitting bowling. Actual conversations, a real thought out research study and not something thrown together in a week or two. Is it the price of a game at the local center? The drive time to the local center? Family? Economy? Other sports? More electronic options (cable, SmartPhone, etc)? We can sit here all down until we are blue in the face and argue what we think is right, but a real study is the only way this gets resolved.

airrip

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Re: Topic locked...what a joke
« Reply #119 on: January 27, 2016, 07:54:03 PM »
This topic is one of the craziest things I have read in awhile. I can't believe the time and energy some people have spent complaining about a $5 increase of dues to a whopping grand total of $15 for a year. You can argue all you want that it is not about the money but let's be honest. That's exactly what is is about. Because I can guarantee you wouldn't have written all these posts if the dues didn't increase. So of course you are upset about the money. At least be honest about that.

 As for what they are doing with it?  I have no idea and honestly I don't care. I choose to join a league and bowl. I don't want to be involved with those decisions.  If you do then great. Get involved in your local or state organizations and try to make some changes. Instead of basically complaining like a bunch of school girls in the locker room. Do you seriously think for your $15 you should be sitting in the executive meetings deciding the best route the USBC should take. Should they consult every member and try to please each and every one of us.  That would work out great.  They would then only have 40,000 different ideas to try to implement. Did you ever think the money may be going to pay for operating expenses?  The cost of printer ink has gone up, pens, pencils, paper, staples. A million things have increased in price. So even if the $5 doesn't go to anything new to increase membership or programs who cares.  Other expenses in the world have increased and good for them to hold out this long in increasing the dues.

It's now going to be $15 dollars a year for dues. And I for one think it is still one of the best deals going

WOWZERS

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Re: Topic locked...what a joke
« Reply #120 on: January 27, 2016, 07:56:19 PM »
Agreed Air. 100% agree.