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Author Topic: Tournament Ethics/Rules  (Read 3008 times)

ITZPS

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Tournament Ethics/Rules
« on: March 07, 2017, 06:11:43 AM »
Our city tournament here recently concluded, and once again I feel like I got shafted.  Tournament ran for 4 weekends, on the 3rd weekend someone bowled team, the only event they intended on bowling, but did well and saw how low the all events lead was, and entered doubles and singles for the 4th weekend to make a run at it.  They ended up edging me out by 1 pin 2127-2126. 

I'm the absolute king of 2nd place, I can count on one hand the number of times I've won something, but I need a millipede to count all the times I've gotten 2nd in something, and the ways I'm getting 2nd keep getting more creative.  I also finished in second for doubles this year.  Am I just salty about getting 2nd again and looking for anything I can to complain about or do I have a legitimate gripe here?  Thanks. 
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milorafferty

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Re: Tournament Ethics/Rules
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2017, 10:54:10 AM »
Quote from: JohnP on March 07, 2017, 10:51:19 AM
Our city tournament is two weekends with D/S and team events all shifts.  All events has a separate prize fund.  Our rule is that a bowler can't enter all events after he's thrown the first ball in competition.  --  JohnP

Same as every multiple event tournament I've ever bowled...
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Good Times Good Times

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Re: Tournament Ethics/Rules
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2017, 10:55:12 AM »
Quote from: JohnP on March 07, 2017, 10:51:19 AM
Our city tournament is two weekends with D/S and team events all shifts.  All events has a separate prize fund.  Our rule is that a bowler can't enter all events after he's thrown the first ball in competition.  --  JohnP

It sounds like OP has a similar deadline in his tournament.  I can't wait to hear the reasoning they provide for completely ignoring the deadline and allowing the opponent to just spontaneously decide he's in AFTER his team set....

SPOILER:  There is no valid reasoning.
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Good Times Good Times

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Re: Tournament Ethics/Rules
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2017, 10:56:12 AM »
Quote from: milorafferty on March 07, 2017, 10:53:14 AM
Man, it's a good thing Mighty Fish isn't still here, he would have a field day with this one.  ;D

You already know WHO and WHAT would be mentioned.........you already know.  ;D

He was as predictable as gravity.
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itsallaboutme

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Re: Tournament Ethics/Rules
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2017, 12:44:22 PM »
It really depends if it's the scratch all events title or the prize list.  In all the city and state tournaments I've ever participated in they are two different things.  Title is whoever is highest, prize list is whoever paid for the all events portion of the entry.
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DrBob806

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Re: Tournament Ethics/Rules
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2017, 05:05:14 PM »
Quote from: itsallaboutme on March 07, 2017, 12:44:22 PM
It really depends if it's the scratch all events title or the prize list.  In all the city and state tournaments I've ever participated in they are two different things.  Title is whoever is highest, prize list is whoever paid for the all events portion of the entry.

If you don't pay into the AE, you can't win the title. I've never heard of such a thing as you described.

And to the OP, like others wrote, protest it. The tournament manager will most certainly see this error, and I'm sure even your worst critics will realize you are the champion.
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ITZPS

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Re: Tournament Ethics/Rules
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2017, 05:15:20 PM »
Tournament director checked it out and we reached a compromise.  The other guy is shown as winning the title but I get the money and am the official winner.  It's a little convoluted but I'm ok with it. 

The really interesting thing here is actually a totally different issue.  The average rules state that handicap is based on last year's high book average, and if there is no average from last year, then it's the January 1st average provided 21 games has been bowled already this season.  I bowled lefthanded last year, so when the tournament director was verifying entering averages, that's the average he used.  I bowled the tournament right handed though, so he adjusted the handicap after he realized that.  My righty average this year is only a few pins higher than my lefty average was last year, we bowl on a second shift league and it gets nasty the last couple games, so everyone is down 10-15 pins from what they average in other leagues on the fresh, but that's the only league I'm bowling righty in this year. 

Anyway, after adjusting my handicap the few pins, and then after I brought the all events thing to his attention, he called USBC asking for some clarification, and they told him an average was an average regardless of the hand it was obtained with.  That's the only average I had last year, and being that it was within 4 pins of what I had on Jan 1 this year, it falls within the 10 pin rule and therefore I technically get to use it . . so it's odd and I don't really agree with it, but those apparently are the rules.

I've sent several emails to USBC asking for a separate sanction number for each hand so this isn't such a pain in the ass every time I bowl a tournament, but they keep saying I'm one person and they can't do that, that it would be like issuing someone two social security numbers or something.  The rule is just that handicap is based off the highest average, so no matter what hand I bowl any tournament with, handicap is based off the high book average unless the 10 pin rule is invoked, so obviously if I average 170 lefthanded and then my Jan 1 average is 210, of course I'd be rerated . . however if I bowled a tournament lefthanded, I'd have to use my high book average whichever hand it was obtained with . . but this all makes not a whole lot of sense.  I wish they'd just give me another sanction number, it would make it so much easier. 
« Last Edit: March 07, 2017, 05:19:52 PM by ITZPS »
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ITZPS

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Re: Tournament Ethics/Rules
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2017, 05:21:56 PM »
I've actually heard of that.  If you have the high all events score, you win the event, but if you didn't pay into the prize fund for it, you still are awarded the title, just not the money, the money goes to the entrant with the highest score that paid into the prize fund.  It's not very common, but I've heard of it. 

Quote from: DrBob806 on March 07, 2017, 05:05:14 PM
Quote from: itsallaboutme on March 07, 2017, 12:44:22 PM
It really depends if it's the scratch all events title or the prize list.  In all the city and state tournaments I've ever participated in they are two different things.  Title is whoever is highest, prize list is whoever paid for the all events portion of the entry.

If you don't pay into the AE, you can't win the title. I've never heard of such a thing as you described.

And to the OP, like others wrote, protest it. The tournament manager will most certainly see this error, and I'm sure even your worst critics will realize you are the champion.
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itsallaboutme

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Re: Tournament Ethics/Rules
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2017, 05:27:14 PM »
Maybe you've never heard of such a thing, but it is the rule.  You can win the title, just not the money associated with it.  If you knock down the most pins you are the champion, you just may not get the top prize in the prize list if you didn't pay the all events fee.

Rule 306 – All-Events
Participants in a tournament may be charged an optional fee for an all-events contest when two or more events are scheduled or when two or more tournaments are conducted under the same management. When an all-events fee is charged, the following apply:
a. Expense fees may be charged for participation in an optional all-events contest when in accordance with the requirements in Rule 305.
b. The all-events fee must be paid before the advertised closing date for entries or before the participant bowls any of the events, whichever comes  rst.
c. An all-events entry can be transferred if the transfer is made before either of the bowlers involved have participated in any event of the tournament.
d. Distribution of prizes shall comply with the formula prescribed for payment of regular position prizes and the ratio of return shall be at least one to 20 or major fraction thereof, unless the tournament rules state another prize ratio. Where a trophy or award, other than cash awards, is offered for the all-events championship, the bowler who places  rst in all-events is entitled to the award even if the bowler did not pay the optional fee. In such instances, the trophy or award cannot be considered as part of the all-events prize fund, and must be purchased from other funds.
e. Youth tournaments: The all-events fee shall not be greater than the highest awards fee charged for any event of the tournament.
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Pinbuster

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Re: Tournament Ethics/Rules
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2017, 05:27:25 PM »
I was just looking at the entry form. It states that late entries could be accepted if prior approval was given by the tournament board. If approval was given I don't see why they should have a problem with them winning.

Our tournaments have gotten so desperate for entries they allow entries up to the last  squad bowled. They also allow re-entry in doubles and singles but only the first score bowled counts towards all events. You can only cash once but bowl several times.

I don't care for either of these practices. There should be a hard deadline and one chance to score.

Almost regardless of what they shot in the first set there was no guarantee they could take the lead after bowling doubles/singles.
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ITZPS

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Re: Tournament Ethics/Rules
« Reply #25 on: March 07, 2017, 05:47:50 PM »
Yeah, the issue isn't with the entry of doubles and singles, and they do allow late entries despite the deadline because participation is low, but there's a USBC rule against entering all events after one qualifying event has already been bowled.  If he would have added another team event and re-bowled in addition to adding doubles and singles and taken all events from those three squads, no issue.  But testing the water and then retroactively wanting to enter all events is not allowed period regardless of allowing late entries into the events.  If you could bowl an event or two before you decided if you wanted into all events, no one would sign up early, they would wait it out to see how the first event or two went. 

Quote from: Pinbuster on March 07, 2017, 05:27:25 PM
I was just looking at the entry form. It states that late entries could be accepted if prior approval was given by the tournament board. If approval was given I don't see why they should have a problem with them winning.

Our tournaments have gotten so desperate for entries they allow entries up to the last  squad bowled. They also allow re-entry in doubles and singles but only the first score bowled counts towards all events. You can only cash once but bowl several times.

I don't care for either of these practices. There should be a hard deadline and one chance to score.

Almost regardless of what they shot in the first set there was no guarantee they could take the lead after bowling doubles/singles.
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ITZPS

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Re: Tournament Ethics/Rules
« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2017, 05:51:01 PM »
Yes, this is in fact correct.  So by rule, he wins the title, but I get the money, which is fair and acceptable, because after bowling the team event, he wasn't eligible for the prize fund, but still eligible for the title.  Our TD is a good guy, he got it all sorted out in a matter of hours with no fuss. 

Quote from: itsallaboutme on March 07, 2017, 05:27:14 PM
Maybe you've never heard of such a thing, but it is the rule.  You can win the title, just not the money associated with it.  If you knock down the most pins you are the champion, you just may not get the top prize in the prize list if you didn't pay the all events fee.

Rule 306 – All-Events
Participants in a tournament may be charged an optional fee for an all-events contest when two or more events are scheduled or when two or more tournaments are conducted under the same management. When an all-events fee is charged, the following apply:
a. Expense fees may be charged for participation in an optional all-events contest when in accordance with the requirements in Rule 305.
b. The all-events fee must be paid before the advertised closing date for entries or before the participant bowls any of the events, whichever comes  rst.
c. An all-events entry can be transferred if the transfer is made before either of the bowlers involved have participated in any event of the tournament.
d. Distribution of prizes shall comply with the formula prescribed for payment of regular position prizes and the ratio of return shall be at least one to 20 or major fraction thereof, unless the tournament rules state another prize ratio. Where a trophy or award, other than cash awards, is offered for the all-events championship, the bowler who places  rst in all-events is entitled to the award even if the bowler did not pay the optional fee. In such instances, the trophy or award cannot be considered as part of the all-events prize fund, and must be purchased from other funds.
e. Youth tournaments: The all-events fee shall not be greater than the highest awards fee charged for any event of the tournament.
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