win a ball from Bowling.com

Author Topic: USBC rule question  (Read 10744 times)

BigHorhn

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 468
USBC rule question
« on: November 20, 2015, 01:40:13 PM »
If you use a sub on your team that isn't sanctioned for the county that the league is in, does his scores count? The team that your team bowled against that night wants the unsanctioned bowlers scores erased and he be given zero. The league gave the unsanctioned bowler zero but used the regular bowlers average minus ten instead. Was that how you would have handled it and is there a USBC rule against it? It is a 5 man league. The next thing that was suggested to do was give the team with the unsanctioned bowler the blind score (160) for each game since they used an unsanctioned bowler. What do you guys think?

Thank you.

 

Bowler19525

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 882
Re: USBC rule question
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2015, 02:48:05 PM »
USBC Rule 107c2 states :A substitute must be a member of USBC, a state association and a local association, where required.

If the league requires that substitutes be members of the local association in which the league bowls, then the sub would need to pay the local association fee when they show up to sub.  Otherwise, they are not a valid sub and the scores do not count.


txbowler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 626
Re: USBC rule question
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2015, 02:50:42 PM »
In my opinion, and it was an innocent mistake (the bowler didn't know he was bowling in a place where he was not sanctioned), the unsanctioned bowler pays his sanction fee( or someone on the team does) and the scores stand.

We have had cases locally where the bowler does not pay his sanction the first night of bowling.  Fills out the form, but has no cash so pays the 2nd week.


If the secretary of the league sees there was a new bowler and does not bring down a sanction form to be filled out and thus the sanction issue would have been handled then I don't see how his score can be dis-allowed.  The team captain should have also notified the secretary of the new bowler and thus the sanction form would have been given to the team captain and filled out.

txbowler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 626
Re: USBC rule question
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2015, 02:53:45 PM »
If no sanction form was submitted and the secretary was not notified until after the fact (like a week later), then I think the correct ruling is as if the bowler never bowled.  League absentee/vacancy score rules would take effect at that time.

BigHorhn

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 468
Re: USBC rule question
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2015, 03:18:49 PM »
The team does have a full five man roster. One of there bowlers was missing, so they used a sub. He didn't fill out a sanction card until after the third game. Nobody notified the secretary that he wasn't sanctioned before he bowled. The captain from the team that they bowled against wanted the sub disqualified and his scores erased because of that. He says that at that point they couldn't use the bowlers average minus ( our league rules) ten at that point. He even said that he didn't think they should be able to use the vacant score of 160 either. In other words, because he (the unsanctioned bowler) threw just one ball and didn't fill out a sanction card until after league they should get all of the points that night. I don't think that should be the case. The league voted that they should use the the absent bowlers average minus 10 pins and tabulate the scores. They lost, so the losing team captain took it to the USBC national after the local USBC said that it's been voted on and that they can't circumvent our league rules, because its nothing in USBC rules about the situation.

Bowler19525

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 882
Re: USBC rule question
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2015, 03:25:42 PM »
The original post said the sub wasn't sanctioned in the county, now it sounds like the bowler wasn't sanctioned at all.  It really doesn't matter when the bowler completed the sanction card (beginning of the night or at the end of the night.)  Ultimately, if the sub is disqualified, then the absent regular member's average less 10 pins would apply.  If the regular member was delinquent in league fees or some other circumstance, then vacancy score should apply.

txbowler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 626
Re: USBC rule question
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2015, 03:43:43 PM »
It sounds like the opposing captain was trying to find a way to DQ the team and get the wins after they had lost.

BigHorhn

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 468
Re: USBC rule question
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2015, 03:52:19 PM »
Bowler19525 the bowler was sanction for Cuyahoga county which incorporates most of Cleveland Ohio and the surrounding area. He just wasn't sanctioned for Lake Geauga county where we bowl. I think that should just take the teams members average minus ten and that be that. Txbowler, yes he is just trying to get the team disqualified to get the points. It the very lease like you said  they should just use the vacant score. Thank you all for your comments.

Urethane Game

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1304
Re: USBC rule question
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2015, 03:59:23 PM »
Bowlers being petty.  Par for the course.  I assume the team protesting lost.

Aloarjr810

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2149
  • Alley Katz Strike!
Re: USBC rule question
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2015, 04:01:45 PM »
This exact situation is covered in the USBC rule book.

If the Sub. was not sanctioned at all or just needs the local assoc. card. According to USBC Rule 101 he has until the end of the series to pay the required sanction fees.

If they are not payed by then, The team forfeits the games the sub bowled in.

Since the sub didn't fill out a card and pay the required fees till after the end of the series.

The team the sub was on forfeits the games.

The other team in this case had been bowling in what is called a "unknown forfeit" and is automatically credited with all of the points.

The situation  is covered under Rule 110 & 119  see the CAQ below

USBC Rules
Rule 101 – Membership Fee Payment Requirements

To be eligible to bowl in a USBC league, a bowler must:
a. Complete an individual membership application in each league the bowler participates in.
b. Pay or show proof of payment of USBC dues and the required association membership fees in effect for the current season before:

1. Adult membership: Completion of the bowler’s first series.
2. Youth membership: The bowler’s third session of competition.

Any team using a player who has not satisfied USBC membership eligibility requirements subjects the games in which the bowler participated to forfeiture.


Commonly Asked Questions – Rule 110c.
110c/2 What is an unknown forfeit?
The team bowls unaware that a forfeit will be declared. For example, it was found out immediately after bowling the opposing team used an ineligible player. The forfeiture would have to be acted upon within the specified timelines of Rule 119.

The forfeiting team does not receive any points and the non-forfeiting team is automatically credited with all of the points.

110c/6 If a team has to forfeit because an ineligible player is used, what happens to the scores bowled?
An ineligible player’s score becomes zero, and the game(s) is (are) not included in their average. The team’s score for the forfeited game(s) is (are) also zero. However, the scores bowled by the eligible players are counted toward their averages and any individual prizes.

119/2 When a team uses an ineligible player, can a league officer declare games forfeited?
Yes, league officers have authority to take action regarding games bowled by an ineligible
player if detected within the time frames stated in Rule 119. If action is not taken within the
time period, the games stand. League officials have the power to enforce league rules and to
declare game(s) forfeited. If an officer fails to act, or a league member decides to challenge the
officer’s decision, a written protest would have to be filed in accordance with Rule 119.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 05:51:09 PM by Aloarjr810 »
Aloarjr810
----------
Click For My Grip

JOE FALCO

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6298
Re: USBC rule question
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2015, 05:08:33 PM »
Aloar .. you ALWAYS amaze me!
RIP Thongprincess/Sawbones!

trash heap

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2648
Re: USBC rule question
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2015, 05:51:40 PM »
We have a rule of thumb in our Local Association. Always fill out a Sanction Card. It doesn't matter if you paid your dues in another league. Makes things very easy for those running the local association.

Talkin' Trash!

BobOhio

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 294
Re: USBC rule question
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2015, 08:47:52 PM »
Have you asked your State USBC for help?
They should be asked before the National office.
BobOhio
GO BUCKS