Author Topic: Transition problem (Read 2690 times)

dmonroe814 · « **on:** June 08, 2013, 03:33:31 PM »

Been bowling in some tournaments lately and seem to run into a transition problem I can't fix. Med-Light oil modified house shot. I have a great line and the carry is good. 269 because of a bad shot. Next game starts with a double then a 4 pin. Ball starts checking up early. I move left and leave a 10 pin because the ball doesn't finish strong enough. Move back right and try more speed, but the ball goes through the break point and I leave a 2-10. The heads/mids are causing me problems because the ball is checking up too soon. Added speed gets me through the heads, but the extra speed keeps the ball from finishing on time. Moving left doesn't seem to work, because the ball checks up even sooner or hangs to the right down lane.
What is your strategy when the ball checks up on too soon and there is oil on the back-end. I'm getting frustrated. I have been running into the same problem on the Viper pattern on the sport league.

TWOHAND834 · « **Reply #1 on:** June 08, 2013, 04:19:43 PM »

Quote from: dmonroe814 on June 08, 2013, 03:33:31 PM

Been bowling in some tournaments lately and seem to run into a transition problem I can't fix. Med-Light oil modified house shot. I have a great line and the carry is good. 269 because of a bad shot. Next game starts with a double then a 4 pin. Ball starts checking up early. I move left and leave a 10 pin because the ball doesn't finish strong enough. Move back right and try more speed, but the ball goes through the break point and I leave a 2-10. The heads/mids are causing me problems because the ball is checking up too soon. Added speed gets me through the heads, but the extra speed keeps the ball from finishing on time. Moving left doesn't seem to work, because the ball checks up even sooner or hangs to the right down lane.
What is your strategy when the ball checks up on too soon and there is oil on the back-end. I'm getting frustrated. I have been running into the same problem on the Viper pattern on the sport league.

As with any typical house shot, even modified, is that as you migrate inside, you get into a heavier concentration of oil. Its not that there is oil on the backend. You are just into a higher volume. Sounds like the ball you start with is rolly which will work great when going up the track. However, as you move inside, your angle changes and thus the reason you cant carry as well. Rule of thumb is that as you migrate inside, you need a ball that will pop more on the backend to help create the angle needed to pop out that corner pin. You dont want to get into something too skid flippy because then you can create over/under hell. You need something that is a little cleaner through the fronts than the ball you are speaking of and just really good continuation through the pins without being uncontrollable. Another thing to consider, is to stay where your carry is really good but just ball down to something weaker.

What ball are you starting with that seems to carry well for the first game or so? After re-reading your post, if you say that the middle hooks more once you move inside, then I dont think it is even a house type shot of any kind unless their house shot is a lighter volume or shorter pattern anyway.

charlest · « **Reply #2 on:** June 08, 2013, 04:22:47 PM »

Unless you're fairly talented with hand release and ball speed changes, once you need to move inside due to oil depletion and drying outsides, you often have to go with a weaker drilled, polished and/or pearlized ball. (with the large number of coverstocks these days we don't always have to go to pearlized balls when we move inside any more.)

So, as one example, if you start off with a dull/matte or lightly polished solid/hybrid drilled with a 4" - 4.5" pin-PAP, maybe at or below your fingers ( possibly a 60x4x60 or 60x4x40 drilling), to move inside effectively, one often needs to move to a highly polished 1/2 - 1 stage weaker (maybe hybrid, maybe pearl) coverstock, with a 5" - 5.5" pin-PAP, with maybe the pin at or above the level of the fingers, (possibly a 50x5x30 or a 60x5.5x25 drilling).

Concrete examples:
You start off with a Brawler and drop down to a Ringer.
You start off with an Arson Hybrid and drop down to a Cobalt Vibe
You start off a Crossroad and drop down to a Freakin Frantic
You start off with a Disturbed and drop down to a Shatter

dmonroe814 · « **Reply #3 on:** June 08, 2013, 05:03:10 PM »

I have been starting with a Roto Grip Wrecker with a 5" pin. I was staying behind the ball. It is great for a while, going out to the break point, setting up and a small turn into the pocket with great carry. It is great when there is oil in the heads and dry back end. The closes thing I have to a skid-flip ball in my bag was a Roto Grip defiant edge. However, with 4 crankers on my pair, the oil in the middle was gone, and the Edge couldn't get through the mid lanes. My slower ball speed, 14-15 and too much hand, cause some real problems when the heads break down. Fall/Winter leagues have a higher volume of oil, so this is not usually a problem. Summer and sport is where my problems begin. I have a pearl Urethane Avalanche but I have carry issues no matter what the conditions. Guess it is time to invest in a scream or shout or maybe a weaker coverstock DV8.
Thanks for your input.

TWOHAND834 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 08, 2013, 05:12:46 PM »

Quote from: dmonroe814 on June 08, 2013, 05:03:10 PM

I have been starting with a Roto Grip Wrecker with a 5" pin. I was staying behind the ball. It is great for a while, going out to the break point, setting up and a small turn into the pocket with great carry. It is great when there is oil in the heads and dry back end. The closes thing I have to a skid-flip ball in my bag was a Roto Grip defiant edge. However, with 4 crankers on my pair, the oil in the middle was gone, and the Edge couldn't get through the mid lanes. My slower ball speed, 14-15 and too much hand, cause some real problems when the heads break down. Fall/Winter leagues have a higher volume of oil, so this is not usually a problem. Summer and sport is where my problems begin. I have a pearl Urethane Avalanche but I have carry issues no matter what the conditions. Guess it is time to invest in a scream or shout or maybe a weaker coverstock DV8.
Thanks for your input.

You may want to look into something like a Tropical Breeze. The core is weak but the coverstock is still resin which should give you more angle into the pocket than the Avalanche and help with some of that carry issue. Just a thought for you to ponder.

PA · « **Reply #5 on:** June 08, 2013, 06:28:40 PM »

As someone with slower ball speed and rev dominant I see the same thing many times. For me weak coverstocks (and their corresponding weak cores) are very clean through the fronts which means they read the friction too hard or skate if they hit carrydown.

I would take your defiant edge to 4000+polish which helps the ball get through the dry heads and middle and the stronger core helps the ball finish strong enough to kick out the 10. This is what I use at least when I need something to get through the heads and still finish with power.

charlest · « **Reply #6 on:** June 08, 2013, 06:59:44 PM »

Quote from: PA on June 08, 2013, 06:28:40 PM

As someone with slower ball speed and rev dominant I see the same thing many times. For me weak coverstocks (and their corresponding weak cores) are very clean through the fronts which means they read the friction too hard or skate if they hit carrydown.

You're making an unnecessary generalization. You don't have to use the most skid/flip pearl and you don't have to use the longest pin-PAP. You just have to use a ball and a drilling that's gets more length and backend than your base or beginning ball.

You don't need and SHOULDN'T go to extremes.

Quote

I would take your defiant edge to 4000+polish which helps the ball get through the dry heads and middle and the stronger core helps the ball finish strong enough to kick out the 10. This is what I use at least when I need something to get through the heads and still finish with power.

Fine. You need a ball that gets more length and more backend than your base ball. Use whatever works for your release/delivery. I was just talking generalities of how to deal with the problem.

Not every one has the same release. You need to use the ball and drilling that does the job for your release/delivery and oil pattern/amount.

PA · « **Reply #7 on:** June 08, 2013, 07:34:10 PM »

Hey Charlest,

I'm sorry if I came off as disagreeing with your suggestion or argumentative. I actually agree with everything you said, and you are correct my observations are strictly based off my release and game and may be too extreme/unnecessary for my game; I will have to look into a more simple and better solution as well.

The recommendation to take the defiant edge to 4000+polish may have been out of line, I was just looking at his current arsenal and trying to make a suggestion without having to buy a new ball.

Dmonroe,
Charlest is definitely more qualified and knowledgeable then myself and I'm sorry if I may have lead you down the wrong path.

charlest · « **Reply #8 on:** June 08, 2013, 09:11:52 PM »

Quote from: PA on June 08, 2013, 07:34:10 PM

Hey Charlest,

I'm sorry if I came off as disagreeing with your suggestion or argumentative. I actually agree with everything you said, and you are correct my observations are strictly based off my release and game and may be too extreme/unnecessary for my game; I will have to look into a more simple and better solution as well.

The recommendation to take the defiant edge to 4000+polish may have been out of line, I was just looking at his current arsenal and trying to make a suggestion without having to buy a new ball.

Dmonroe,
Charlest is definitely more qualified and knowledgeable then myself and I'm sorry if I may have lead you down the wrong path.

I didn't take it that way at all. Sorry if came across that way.

Moving inside and the ball/drilling to use can be a tricky balancing act, depending on the actual oil amount & pattern and your release. Theoretically, the Edge can be the right ball. I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand.

While I'd personally regard the Wrecker as an extreme skid/flip ball and I doubt if I could use a long, and high pin with it, it turned out to be the perfect solution for a friend of mine on an extremely tricky house transition shot, with which he suffered most of the year, until about March. The ball, drilling and surface was suggested by JustRico right here and it worked perfectly. I was personally shocked but happy.

dmonroe814 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 08, 2013, 09:29:00 PM »

I thought my Wrecker would be a short oil ball, but from the first time I had it drilled, I was shocked by the reaction. It never made it thru the mid-lanes. I tried extenter polish and it only worked on heavy oil. I had the ball redrilled with a 5 in pin and now it works when I stay behind the ball. It has been the ball I have used most of the time lately. It seems to be very rolly, but does not work as a skid flip ball. My edge works well as a skid flip, but needs oil to work well. I think my best option is a scream or like ball. I have tried a weak core, reactive cover (C300 Scout), but never had any luck with it. Carry was always a big issue. I have done better with a strong core and weak cover.
Thanks to everyone for your input.

Author Topic: Transition problem (Read 2690 times)

dmonroe814

Transition problem

TWOHAND834

Re: Transition problem

charlest

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dmonroe814

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TWOHAND834

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PA

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charlest

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PA

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charlest

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dmonroe814

Re: Transition problem