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Author Topic: tricky question ....  (Read 2601 times)

FBM357

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tricky question ....
« on: February 16, 2005, 05:35:00 AM »
Who, in your opinion, has the greater use of leverage?  Someone 6'+? or 6'-?  Long arms beneficial?  How about an ideal span (if there is such)?

I know it's rather vague as there's almost infinite variables, but there has to be some common ground associating physical attributes with optimum execution.  Do you not agree?
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TheBowlingKid25

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Re: tricky question ....
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2005, 01:36:46 PM »
less then 6', with a big span. Lower you can get, more leverage. More hand you have around the ball, more leverage. Its like holding a baseball, and pretending to throw it like a bowling ball, you can spin it a lot because it fits in your hand. Thats my opinion anyways.
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a_ak57

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Re: tricky question ....
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2005, 01:37:43 PM »
Technically, dont' bigger people have the ability to put more speed/revs on the ball, since at "shoulder height", their swing will be faster and have more momentum?   BK, someone tall can get just as low with their arm as someone short.  Anyone can get low.  But yes, a bigger span gets more revs.

Hmm, you just reminded me......I wonder how tall i am.
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Edited on 2/16/2005 2:35 PM
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TheBowlingKid25

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Re: tricky question ....
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2005, 01:39:58 PM »
Well, being 6' tall doesnt mean your a big person. NOW if he had said over 6', and like built, or are kind of heavier, then yes a bigger person could get more speed and revs. BUT, I've also seen bigger guys that dont get much on the ball either. I guess its just in the persons style. Look at people like me, and bobmatt, we're not huge guys, but can still put some hand in to it. (bobmatt gets more then I do, and his span is like 4 inches!)
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dogman666

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Re: tricky question ....
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2005, 01:40:30 PM »
Taller people have a bigger area for error but make up for it with longer backswings and speed and usually have bigger hands.  Smaller guys are plain and simple closer to the ground so their error ratio is less.
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a_ak57

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Re: tricky question ....
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2005, 01:41:18 PM »
He said over 6, and under 6 feet.  WIth identical styles, the 7' tall guy with a 6" span will get more speed/revs than the 5' tall guy with a 4" span.
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Ragnar

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Re: tricky question ....
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2005, 01:47:12 PM »
quote:
Technically, dont' bigger people have the ability to put more speed/revs on the ball, since at "shoulder height", their swing will be faster and have more momentum?  
Speed, maybe.  Revs, no.  Revs come from hand position  and technique.

quote:
BK, someone tall can get just as low with their arm as someone short.  Anyone can get low.
No, not everyone can get low.  Take for example me.  At 6' 3", with a bad knee, I do not get low - in fact (due to the knee) I avoid it.  Also (I believe) Andy (Card79) has mentioned that he has trouble getting low - he's bigger than I am (6' 5" I think).  If you remember Steve Cook (6' 7") never got very low either.
quote:
But yes, a bigger span gets more revs.
Possible, not absolute.  Again, look at Steve Cook - huge hand, could probably wrap better than halfway around the ball and had huge revs.  But my driller (5' 7" or so, small hands) has more revs than I do.


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a_ak57

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Re: tricky question ....
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2005, 01:49:27 PM »
You guys, you guys, you guys.  I don't think he's asking how it REALLY is, but more in theory.

ANd, in theory, a bigger person is supposed to have a bigger span, and all that kind of stuff.  YOu guys keep bringing up personal examples, but this is supposed to be in THEORY.  LIke i said, with ALL factors excluding build, the larger, bigger-spanned person can get "more" on the ball than the little person.

It's kind of like this......in a certain scenario, a 10 year old could get more on the ball than the big NFL player due to technique, but based purely on phyiscal attributes, the NFL SHOULD get more than the kid.
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Edited on 2/16/2005 2:47 PM
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Ragnar

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Re: tricky question ....
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2005, 01:53:08 PM »
Andy, in theory, the person with the best technique will get more revs, not the largest person.  There  is likely a correlation between size and speed (Though I see a lot of little guys throw real hard), but there is no correlation between size and revs.  It is likely that being smaller gives one an advantage when it comes to leverage - shorter arms and legs = shorter swing arc = more leverage with equal force.
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"A little sincerity is a dangerous thing, and a great deal of it is absolutely fatal." Oscar Wilde
Ragnar sure likes to throw his purdy Uranium Buzzsaw.
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pin-chaser

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Re: tricky question ....
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2005, 01:55:07 PM »
At the moment, I do not believe there is a potential advantage to leverage based on height. Nor to revs based on span. However, in the case of the length of arm, I suspect it would be easier to create ball speed if you have a longer arm (as the potential for momentum is increased).

I wish BT was here to answer this one. I believe he is without question to worlds athourity on this specific stuff. He really should participate here.
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a_ak57

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Re: tricky question ....
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2005, 01:56:27 PM »
But doesn't a larger span have the ability to turn the ball harder?  Though this is a drastic comparison, if a house cat tried to spin a ball, the lion would be able to spin it harder, since it gets more hand around the ball and can exert more force.

You guys keep talking about technique and like i said, FBM was asking about just pure speculation and theory, not actual practice.

I know i'm coming off as argumentative, but you guys are trying to tell me that if you had a 4' tall person, and made a clone of him 7' tall, if they execute the same, everything in their shot will be exactly the same and not even a micro-measure of difference?
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Edited on 2/16/2005 2:57 PM
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Ragnar

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Re: tricky question ....
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2005, 02:13:40 PM »
Andy, a longer span may have the potential ability (in theory) to turn the ball up more, but potential without technique is nothing.  I'm speaking of theoretical technique here, not actual.  I doubt that any of us have actual perfect technique, but given a 4' guy with perfect technique and an 8' guy with no technique, the little guy would out rev the tall guy by a ton.  Not that short guys can't have long spans, mind you.
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"A little sincerity is a dangerous thing, and a great deal of it is absolutely fatal." Oscar Wilde
Ragnar sure likes to throw his purdy Uranium Buzzsaw.
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FBM357

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Re: tricky question ....
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2005, 02:14:56 PM »
playing devils advocate.....

Can a person with smaller hands turn a ball quicker (not faster) than someone with larger hands?  Would the distance between turn and release between the two different hands make a difference (i.e. more powerful turn is perhaps stronger than a much quicker turn)?
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a_ak57

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Re: tricky question ....
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2005, 02:20:00 PM »
quote:
Andy, a longer span may have the potential ability (in theory) to turn the ball up more, but potential without technique is nothing.  I'm speaking of theoretical technique here, not actual.  I doubt that any of us have actual perfect technique, but given a 4' guy with perfect technique and an 8' guy with no technique, the little guy would out rev the tall guy by a ton.  Not that short guys can't have long spans, mind you.
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"A little sincerity is a dangerous thing, and a great deal of it is absolutely fatal." Oscar Wilde
Ragnar sure likes to throw his purdy Uranium Buzzsaw.

Yes, you are correct.  Truly, bowling is all about technique, but when technique is the same, that's when physical prowess will appear, which is what i was saying.

FBM, since you don't say about equal technique, YES, a smaller person can turn it more with better technique.
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Ragnar

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Re: tricky question ....
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2005, 02:23:25 PM »
FBM, that is what I was getting at (at least in part) when I mentioned that little guys have (POTENTIALLY) better leverage, due to the shorter arcs of their swing.  They cover a shorter distance, in a faster time than the big guys.  Most of the house hacks that I've seen who have really mastered the "pro" release (the cupping and uncupping) are smaller - you cannot actually follow what they do with their hands/wrist as it is so quick.
--------------------
"A little sincerity is a dangerous thing, and a great deal of it is absolutely fatal." Oscar Wilde
Ragnar sure likes to throw his purdy Uranium Buzzsaw.
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Wyrd bið ful aræd!
(Thought to be a member of something called the PMS club by some.)
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