Author Topic: Two handed bowling the next big thing! You heard it here! (Read 7357 times)

LuckyLefty · « **on:** February 04, 2004, 08:04:25 PM »

ARRRGGGGGGGHHHHH!

Went to edit and deleted this forum. Didn't see any of the comments sorry!!!!!!!! Never did that before!

redone!

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Two handed bowling is THE "Next Big Thing in Bowling".

Today O**gakkk##F Fin**lljffiidxcixx er you get it(finn) is in 6th place at the US open.

I knew when I first saw my son naturally do itat age 4throw a 10 pound ball at about 12 mph with about 14 revs and shoot 156 without bumpersthat this was an incredible thing.

Then a Yaba instructor who averaged about160 told him he couldn't keep bowling in Yaba if he didn't switch to one handed. Then he had to go back to 6 pounds, and had about 6 revs. Lost his mojo!

THen I saw a 13 year old rail thin kid beat in a scratch tournament for $2000 a 6 foot 2 270 pound 17 inch forearm cranker with about a 270 with 3 times the mistake area, that's when I really got the clue that this method is something special.

Just like the once scorned two hand in tennis the player can easily add or take away revs at release in response to the swing path due to the free arm.
Just as in tennis they can disguise with the two hand their final direction till the last split second. And in bowling there are no reach issues.

TWO Hand 836 can probably add to this.

You heard it here IT IS, Bowling's next thing here from me NOBODY!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS sorry about the delete of your posts guys! ooops!

TWOHAND834 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 05, 2004, 02:05:41 PM »

This is for you all that really think it should be outlawed. I have a tape here at home (C.A.T.S Analysis) that shows my left hand coming off the ball before I release it. I can see your opinion if the other hand was to help create more revolutions. But, with the other hand underneath the ball, this cannot hold true. If you want to outlaw this, then outlaw all no-thumbers. There is no difference. The other hand is only used for support through the swing. That is it. If you really think about it, everyone is a two hander since both hands are on the ball at some point in their approach. Some people have it only at set up. Some people have the other hand on the ball as long as their second or third step (seen that plenty of times). If anyone will be in Reno for the ABCs this month, I bowl on the 21st at 8:30 and the 22nd at 5:30. You can see first hand what the delivery looks like if you happen to be there. The reason for my 2 hand usage, is that I am only 5 foot 7 and weigh 130. I would love to be able to palm a ball without worrying about my wrist giving out, but I can't. I got the idea from watching a resident of Louisville Kentucky at a tournament years ago. If you ever watch a 2 hander, if that person has both hands under the ball at setup, he cannot generate more revs with the opposite hand. That hand is only used for support. Anyways....what makes our 220 average any different from yours or someone else's 220? What "hand" you are as far as bowling is concerned, only goes as far as what hand is used to release the ball...nothing else. The other hand is only a means of support. You want to outlaw this, outlaw wrist braces, back braces that some people use, and elbow supports. It is like Jabroni said, we have to have our element to be successful, just like anyone else. If the heads are gone or lanes are toast, then so are we. You one handers can kick our tails all day long are drier conditions in the way that we have the advantage on wetter conditions. As far as getting ABC to make this illegal, you guys need ALOT more of a valid argument to make this happen. There is alot more I can say but really do not have the time. This is just the typical political nonsense that you guys bring to the sport.
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If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!

johns811 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 05, 2004, 02:09:48 PM »

There is a 16 year old kid in northeast ohio that shot 3 800's in the last 2 weeks at different houses. I think 300 and 2 299's in there somewhere. The pins don't have a chance. His ball speed and revs is just destroying them. If I had digit recorder I would post a video. It's amazing to watch. He used 2 hands his entire life throwing a 16lb ball probably when he was 10 or even younger.

no1bucsfan · « **Reply #18 on:** February 05, 2004, 02:15:17 PM »

TWOHAND, if you left hand leaves the ball before release then it's not really two handing it, is it? How does this generate more ball revs and speed?

The only two hander I have seen is an 10 yr old kid, and he kicks azz with it. But he doesn't pull away the left hand before the release. He uses both hands to torque the he11 out of the ball. He uses a plastic ball and gets at least 10 boards of movement out of it near the back end.
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You can always hit em hard when you've got the balls

Lefties are the only people in their right minds.

no1bucsfan

TWOHAND834 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 05, 2004, 02:27:11 PM »

no1,

Believe me...I see what you are saying. All I am trying to sa, is that there is a misconception that the other hand is used to generate more speed and revs. Granted, I cannot see those other people just like they cannot see me. If there is a ?? is anyone's mind, just watch the setup. If the second hand is on top of the ball, is is being used to create more speed and revs. If the hand is under the ball, such as mine, it is only there as a means of support. I am only defending this because I have had some people here in my hometown tell me it should be illegal. But, I see that only as a means of jealousy, because EVERYONE wants some form in order to be one up on the opponent. I do respect everyone on this site. Therefore, I am very approachable if anyone out there has any concerns or thought about anything. Also...I have to defend myself and others if I feel I am being bashed by people who don't know me. The ones doing the bashing are including all 2 handed bowlers; not just the one they were watching at the time.
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If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #20 on:** February 05, 2004, 02:38:32 PM »

THere is no reason it should be illegal, not a one.

All the people I have seen leave their normally free hand on top of the ball.

It is then used to fight revs if pulled or add revs if ball is pushed.

Imagine someone had started golf as a one handed game and there were no rules about anyone using two hands and then one day a guy did. Then everyone laughed and laughed and laughed and then all of a sudden he started winning golfing with two hands. All of sudden they all switched.

Again, a guy in the US open TODAY was in 6th place!! His name is Olfgf###ffff Torngenyohansone###### some finnish you get it!
TWO HANDING IT!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS Never forget the world was flat(no doubt about that) until one day someone said it was round and then everyone laughed and laughed and laughed, and some got mad too! Ooops now they seem to think it is round!

DP3 · « **Reply #21 on:** February 05, 2004, 03:03:15 PM »

I bowl two handed at times and it does offer its benefits. With my thumb in I can generate a 330-340 rpm rate at highest with a speed around 16.5 naturally. I believe I have a very good and versatile game with my thumb in but I often tend to make my adjustments far too late, I over or underhit the ball more than I would like to, and on wide open conditions I end up with games that look like these

X X 8/ 8/ 9/ X 9/ 9- X X8/
28 48 66 85 105 125 144 153 181 201

and end a block with a 630 set

Now bowling two handed I have a revrate easily around 470+ with a speed of about 17.5-19 mph(Not sure exactly). Now on wide open conditions I can string a game like this(while making spares with my thumb in and making a test adjustment on the last ball) also the release is the same everytime since you don't have to worry about clearing the thumb, and opening up the lane is never a problem since your shoulders have to be open to release the ball so it naturally feeds right.

(6)2 X X X X X 8/ X 9/ XX7
8 38 68 98 126 146 166 186 206 233

and end a block with a high 690-low 700 set

Now which game would you rather have in a high scoring enviornment where there is alot of money at stakes. My targeting system remains the same, the only thing is I create alot more area for myself and I don't need to make adjustments nearly as fast as I normally would. On tighter conditions with fresh backends I can move a little right and create nearly 5 more boards area than anyone else in the building has and when the oil is long and heavy I love it since I don't have a problem with not generating enough angle.

The downside is opens at really bad times due to bad leaves going through the face or coming up light(the 2-4-6-10 seems to be my favorite) and dry conditons unless I use a 14lb ball or so. The upside is generating unbelievable pin carry, area, and getting out of trouble when I go light(2-8-10s rarely happen as a messenger seems to always come for the 10 pin), and creating a psychological advantage over the rest of the field. On flatter sport conditions I can also create more much needed area. Also equipment plays a small factor. Any medium-aggressive resin will work for 4-6 games on the same path to the pocket with minimal adjustments.

This summer I am going to drop down to 15lb and maybe some 14 for drier conditions and bowl my summer leagues two handed and see how much more or less I average before I come back for my fall leagues and my last year of collegiate bowling.

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-D. Marshall
ScratchBowling.com Shirt Staff 2003-2004

Edited on 2/5/2004 4:40 PM

bennett · « **Reply #22 on:** February 05, 2004, 03:56:49 PM »

Luckylefty,

So for the first time we see a guy that bowls with 2 hands on tour. Big deal, most of the pros use one hand. I have a guy on my team that uses 2 hands and he averages 210, but he's a lefty. Another guy on my team (his brother) also bowls with 2 hands, gets a ton of revs but isn't accurate. He averages 170's. Both have used 2 hands for at least 5+ years and they are young guys. They hold on the ball through the release and if they don't it must be a split second because it looks like 2 hands all the way.

Bottom line, it may work for them, but it isn't for everybody. I tried it once and I was totally inaccurate.
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I want to have a 220+ average like everybody else around here, so give me fresh oil.

michelle · « **Reply #23 on:** February 05, 2004, 04:09:28 PM »

quote:
If I bowl with one hand during the season (high average is 225), now I switch to 2 hands and I suddenly average 245 in the middle of the season and cream everybody you can bet there would be some talk.

and this would be different from the bowler who improves 20 pins after some lessons or coaching work how? Many bowlers make changes to their game through the course of a season. If someone makes the change (in earnest) and their average goes up, it is exactly the same as someone that improves because of some of the lessons learned with a coach.

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #24 on:** February 05, 2004, 04:39:39 PM »

Thanks DP for the nice side by side.

I have only vaguely tried it. Like many I'm sort of comfortable with what I do.

After changing from right to left that's enough time to suffer before you feel like your getting it.

Oh yeah, two hand can be on either side of the lane. Right or left!
Just like a two handed forehand or backhand.

Remember it looks a lot like regular bowling just the usually free hand is left on the ball to assist in adding or subtracting revs and guiding. Also it doesn't look as pretty.

REgards,

Luckylefty

Sir_rev-a-lot · « **Reply #25 on:** February 06, 2004, 01:12:16 AM »

quote:
It should be illegal and ABC should step in. I've seen the 2 handed bowlers and they USE BOTH HANDS in the set up all the way to the delivery. This may not be true for all 2 handed bowlers but everyone that I've seen uses BOTH hands all the way to the delivery.

To the naked eye it appears to be this way, due to the speed of the armswing of most. I have seen TH834 tapes, and when you break it down into a Cats Anaylsis, the hand comes off fractions of a second before the fingers on the throwing hand exits the ball. Considering all the things ABC has let slide by in the past 20 years, if any one could even come up with a solid enough case, they wouldn't outlaw it. The basics of matchup is still the same. Ratio of Revs/Speed. The higher the number, earlier it will roll, and vice versa. Just with 2 hands, the numbers are higher. All these in a quest to find the proper equilibrium (Spelling?) between accuracy and power.

I don't see it become much of a craze anytime soon just because of the coordination it involves. I have seen many people in the area attempt it once or twice, and most of the time they can't even let go of the ball because they are so out of balance and timing. Since I have pretty much stopped bowling this summer, I haven't been out that much in the centers, but I can probably count the number of people that could pull it off on my hand. Jabs and TH834 might can name another 1 or 2, but I have only seen maybe 4-5 people who with a little bit of time put it could be effective with it. It is a skill IMO to pull it off.

quote:
TwoHand834 is a good friend of mine and he will say the same thing. He used to bowl with his thumb in it but had trouble with oil. With the two handed technique he can have unlimited revrate.

Had trouble in oil, nahhhhh. HE was killer on dry though. Heck in the parking lot he was playing 2nd arrow. (Sorry bud, I had to get that cheap shot in on ya). Those that want to this into an misconception, Before he went 2handed, he averaged in the mid-210s (If I recall right, this was during the short oil era). so it wasn't like he was just an average bowler before. He just looked to enhanced his game and try to take it to another tier. Maybe Jabroni should take lessons, and when he is out here with us league hacks, throw 2 handed to impress us.

bennett · « **Reply #26 on:** February 06, 2004, 10:14:42 AM »

Can I establish an average by kicking the ball down the lane...lol? I heard Verapapa did this, seriously.

Can I throw the ball between my legs? Is that legal?

From there I will use two hands midseason, one hand latter season. I think I can improve my average.

When you think of these things you will see that ABC should make it illegal to bowl with 2 hands.
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I want to have a 220+ average like everybody else around here, so give me fresh oil.

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #27 on:** February 06, 2004, 12:20:03 PM »

Maybe they soon will make it illegal to golf with two hands.

Hmmm?

All this stuff is only important for handicap.

None of it is relevant to scratch.

REgards,

Luckylefty
I used to bowl in a tournament where a righty threw a backup ball to take advantage of lefty conditions at times. I saw him throw a 3 and an 8 doing it.
Is he a left hander? Note as conditions have changed on the lanes many places I saw him more and more throwing right side of the lanes with a traditional hook.

Sir_rev-a-lot · « **Reply #28 on:** February 06, 2004, 12:38:10 PM »

quote:
Can I establish an average by kicking the ball down the lane...lol? I heard Verapapa did this, seriously.

Can I throw the ball between my legs? Is that legal?

From there I will use two hands midseason, one hand latter season. I think I can improve my average.

When you think of these things you will see that ABC should make it illegal to bowl with 2 hands.
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I want to have a 220+ average like everybody else around here, so give me fresh oil.

the difference is the between the legs and kicking the ball would fall under the rules of sandbagging, giving one a purposeful advantage in terms of garnering handicap. IF you have never bowled before 2 handed, then yes it be under the sandbagging rules also. IF you have spent legitimate times practicing on it with relative regularity, and you are using it to take advantage of the condition, then no its not a problem.

in TH834 case, I doubt i have seen him throw 1-handed on a first shot a total of 10 times in the last 5 years. Its not like he switches back and forth, in fact a couple of times I have bowled with him at Team Challenge's and thought he might have been better served to go to 1 hand.

Let's put it another way. For those that think it should be outlawed, what legitimate argument would you bring before ABC based on facts to argue with?

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #29 on:** February 06, 2004, 10:26:05 PM »

At this moment, game 33.

Two handed guy O*fkkek*** Pe*rmku***flays leads the US open!

Hmmmm.

Did somebody say bowling's next big thing?

REgards,

Luckylefty

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #30 on:** February 09, 2004, 05:24:56 AM »

As Randy Pedersen said.

"I'm gonna go out and try it tomorrow".

There is no logical reason why this method is not better. Only draw back may be more strain on back and legs.

Still use one hand under the ball. Backswing length is limited to a pretty compact style. A heavier ball can be used than with one arm. ( my son the perfect example at age 4 using a 10 pound ball with two arm,struggling with a 6 with one arm). Higher revs are achieved. 4 year old son had about 15 with two hand.

Extra guide arm can add or take away revs giving more area!

It is really something that is coming.

Today's US open showing is just the beginning. Five years from now they might say about you, "Ah you know, he's one of those old time one handers!"

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS you can fight it or examine it. Either way it is coming and it is coming faster than you think!
PPS hey what are those guys doing with those boards?snowboarding eh, this is a ski hill!, that snowboarding will never take off?

Author Topic: Two handed bowling the next big thing! You heard it here! (Read 7357 times)

LuckyLefty

Two handed bowling the next big thing! You heard it here!

TWOHAND834

Re: Two handed bowling the next big thing! You heard it here!

johns811

Re: Two handed bowling the next big thing! You heard it here!

no1bucsfan

Re: Two handed bowling the next big thing! You heard it here!

TWOHAND834

Re: Two handed bowling the next big thing! You heard it here!

LuckyLefty

Re: Two handed bowling the next big thing! You heard it here!

DP3

Re: Two handed bowling the next big thing! You heard it here!

bennett

Re: Two handed bowling the next big thing! You heard it here!

michelle

Re: Two handed bowling the next big thing! You heard it here!

LuckyLefty

Re: Two handed bowling the next big thing! You heard it here!

Sir_rev-a-lot

Re: Two handed bowling the next big thing! You heard it here!

bennett

Re: Two handed bowling the next big thing! You heard it here!

LuckyLefty

Re: Two handed bowling the next big thing! You heard it here!

Sir_rev-a-lot

Re: Two handed bowling the next big thing! You heard it here!

LuckyLefty

Re: Two handed bowling the next big thing! You heard it here!

LuckyLefty

Re: Two handed bowling the next big thing! You heard it here!