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Author Topic: USBC proposes fee increase  (Read 12166 times)

JohnP

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USBC proposes fee increase
« on: January 13, 2016, 05:06:42 PM »
One of the proposals for USBC rules changes is to increase the national dues from $10 to $15.  The proposal specifically says there will be no change to the awards policy.  --  JohnP

http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/convention/pdfs/2016/2016ProposedAmendments.pdf
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milorafferty

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Re: USBC proposes fee increase
« Reply #46 on: January 15, 2016, 12:39:19 PM »
Quote from: spmcgivern on January 15, 2016, 12:36:47 PM
Like I said, no one here is stating what they want for their money.  Rings were reduced to once-a-lifetime in 2014.  National dues haven't changed since 2006.  Dues increases have been stagnant for quite a while and because of this, the things bowlers have complained the most about (rings/awards) have had to be eliminated. 

There are more than 50,000 award scores shot per year.  At 1 million bowlers, that is 1 award score per 20 bowlers.  It would take a lot of money to bring these back.  But let's say you don't care about awards.  It still takes USBC a set amount of money to provide services to its members.  Doesn't matter if there are 1 million, 10 million, or just one lonely bowler.  And that cost increases every year.

I wonder if bowlers would be okay with a graduated increase of $X/year till it got to a particular level.  I mean, $5 might take food of the table for some.

If $5 once a year takes food off someone's table, how(and why) the hell are they bowling leagues?
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kidlost2000

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Re: USBC proposes fee increase
« Reply #47 on: January 15, 2016, 12:50:38 PM »
Quote from: Juggernaut on January 14, 2016, 09:10:23 PM
Quote from: kidlost2000 on January 14, 2016, 08:35:59 PM
With that kind of money how would it make bowling better?

More money for the pwba? More employees?  More pay raises?

How does this get more bowlers into the sport? We raised our fees for one league to offset lineage with $0.25 going to the house and $0.75 going to the prize fund and people complained way more then they should.

1. Define "better".

2. PWBA? Not sure if that helps or hurts, but girls are people too, and if the money they spend supporting the PWBA pays off in increased womens participation at a level where it gives equitable returns, then yea, I'm ok with it.

2a. More employees? Maybe, if they are needed. I don't have a problem with them hiring more employees, if that's what it takes to get the job done.

2b. Pay raises? Who doesn't like a pay raise? Just don't give them out for the sake of saying you did. If someone earns or deserves a raise, why shouldn't they get one?


3. Bowlers complain, that's what they do. Ball doesn't fit, lanes were oiled wrong, somebody sneezed in my backswing, yada yada yada..........


 Yes, I know it's a lot of money, but how else are you/we ever going to know if they really can fix things if we don't give them the resources they need to do it with?

 If it works, then great, because it only cost a buck a week.  If it doesn't work, we can always go the route lots of people are looking at going anyway, and that is unsanctioned.

 Like everything else in todays economy, bowling is having a harder time than ever, and they are at the point of either raising more money, or cutting more corners. I say give them a chance for a couple of years. If they still don't start getting it right, then we start exploring what comes after the USBC goes the way of the dodo bird.



Granted your example was throwing a large sum of money at an organization that would never happen.  All those questions above should be addressed by the recipient of the money no matter the total sum.

$5 a member is fair…….. Give some actual benefits of the money. Like applying for a business loan or grant etc tell the bowlers why we should want to give the money.

New bowlers equals more money

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spmcgivern

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Re: USBC proposes fee increase
« Reply #48 on: January 15, 2016, 01:03:37 PM »
Quote from: milorafferty on January 15, 2016, 12:39:19 PM
Quote from: spmcgivern on January 15, 2016, 12:36:47 PM
I wonder if bowlers would be okay with a graduated increase of $X/year till it got to a particular level.  I mean, $5 might take food of the table for some.

If $5 once a year takes food off someone's table, how(and why) the hell are they bowling leagues?

I forgot to use the sarcasm font.
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morpheus

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Re: USBC proposes fee increase
« Reply #49 on: January 15, 2016, 01:09:29 PM »
The argument that it's only $5 is completely irrelevant, the USBC and BPAA have proven to be completely incompetent over the last 20 years so why are they suddenly going to be successful. You guys arguing for an increase either aren't very smart or work for the USBC.
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ccrider

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Re: USBC proposes fee increase
« Reply #50 on: January 15, 2016, 01:40:28 PM »
I was curious about this so I sent an email to the USBC.  Their response may prove interesting to some of you:

Original Message-----
From: Mike Donahue <Mike.Donahue@bowl.com>
To: '
Sent: Fri, Jan 15, 2016 1:04 pm
Subject: RE: Fee increase.





Hi Charles,

 

Thanks for the questions. To clear things up, please note that the legislation being voted on at our Convention was submitted by a member in the field and not USBC, and is a proposal to raise the dues cap from $10 to $15. The delegates present and voting at the USBC Convention will approve or deny the amendment. If passed, it will allow the USBC Board of Directors to review the financial situation of USBC and enact an increase at the time and amount they feel is necessary.

 

As for the financial piece, our Form 990 and Audited Financials can be found on BOWL.com/About, or by clicking here. Individual salaries not found on the Form 990 and the budget information for Fiscal Year 2015 is not something we provide.

 

Sincerely,

 

Mike Donahue

Association Development Manager

Association Development

O 817.385.8297 | C 321.231.5361 | mike.donahue@bowl.com

 

 AFFTS Email Img

United States Bowling Congress

621 Six Flags Drive, Arlington TX 76011

800.514.BOWL | BOWL.COM

 

 

-----Original Message-----
 From: Jeannie Thompson
 Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 12:38 PM
 To: Mike Donahue <Mike.Donahue@bowl.com>
 Subject: FW: Fee increase.

 

Hey Mike,

 

Can you assist please?

 

Thank you,

Jeannie Thompson

Membership Services Manager

O 817.385.8248 | F 817.385.8260 | jeannie.thompson@bowl.com United States Bowling Congress

621 Six Flags Drive, Arlington TX 76011

800.514.BOWL | BOWL.COM

 

-----Original Message-----


Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 9:50 AM

To: Membership Awards <MembershipAwards@bowl.com>

Subject: Fee increase.

 

 

Good morning. I am a USBC Member.

 

I am a member and frequent poster on two internet chat boards, Ballreviews.com and Bowlingballexchange.com.

I learned from a recent post that the USBC will increase our member dues by $5. Several questions were raised about the proposed increase. I think two of them should be answered by the USBC, so I am submitting them to you.

 

First, what will the additional $5 be used for?

 

Second, as a member of the USBC, will you provide me with the USBC budget for the 2015 fiscal year, along with information indicating salaries of all USBC employees, officials or administrators that were paid in whole or in part by USBC member dues in 2015.

 

I anticipate your prompt response.

 

Thank you.

 

This is the link to the financials which provides some info on salaries of the top paid officials:
http://bowl.com/About/About_Home/Financials/
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morpheus

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Re: USBC proposes fee increase
« Reply #51 on: January 15, 2016, 02:13:17 PM »
Here's part of the problem...the USBC will say they cannot tell you how the money will be spent because it's determined by the board of directors and my personal favorite..."Task Force" recommendations. The people on the board aren't employees, they're volunteers so they have no accountability, you can't hold the "Task Force" accountable, and no one at the USBC or BPAA is putting their neck on the line so you get what we have today...a completely incompetent group of people asking for more money with no plan. 
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kidlost2000

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Re: USBC proposes fee increase
« Reply #52 on: January 15, 2016, 02:33:26 PM »
So usbc didn't ask for it but if they got the money the board of directors will decide.

So there's that

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spmcgivern

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Re: USBC proposes fee increase
« Reply #53 on: January 15, 2016, 03:12:29 PM »
Quote from: morpheus on January 15, 2016, 02:13:17 PM
Here's part of the problem...the USBC will say they cannot tell you how the money will be spent because it's determined by the board of directors and my personal favorite..."Task Force" recommendations. The people on the board aren't employees, they're volunteers so they have no accountability, you can't hold the "Task Force" accountable, and no one at the USBC or BPAA is putting their neck on the line so you get what we have today...a completely incompetent group of people asking for more money with no plan. 

What parts of the current expenditures do you not agree with?  What makes USBC incompetent in your eyes?

I am truly interested, and no, I do not work for USBC in any capacity.  I don't understand what it is bowlers expect from USBC for the amount of money they provide.  After 50+ replies, not one person has stated what they WANT USBC to provide.
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trash heap

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Re: USBC proposes fee increase
« Reply #54 on: January 15, 2016, 03:15:42 PM »
Quote
was submitted by a member in the field and not USBC

Wouldn't a member in the "field" be consider part of the USBC.
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txbowler

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Re: USBC proposes fee increase
« Reply #55 on: January 15, 2016, 03:45:42 PM »
WOW - talking about a discussion that's just spinning its wheels....

Here ya go:

Obviously no one here has bowled a league where when it came time for payout, the secretary had spent the money on himself and relocated to another state the week before the payout.  I have.  USBC replaced the money.  This year I bowl in a league with nearly an $80,000 prize fund.  What would you do I the secretary disappeared with that money.  Cry?  Because without USBC, that would be your only option.

Not every bowler bowls in a big house that has internal banking.  Some bowl in smaller centers that have no desire to also function as league bank.

I currently bowl in 2 leagues that do not use leaguesecretary software.  They are both part of a regional league that uses its own proprietary software for record keeping.  Again lots of bowlers nationwide probably run into the same issue.  Not every secretary is going to pay for that software.  heck, I have heard of secretaries that don't ever submit final averages.

So there are not cut and dry answers to eliminating USBC.

You think sandbagging happens now.  See what happens if no national average database exists.  I am bowling in small town america in a house league that doesn't use league secretary.  I actually average 220.  But instead, I drive 4-6 hours to some hdcp tournament where no one knows who the hell I am.  Oh, my average is only 175.  Here's the standings sheet to prove it.  (BTW - I scanned that standings sheet into word and changed the numbers to make my average only 175).

So, when payout comes, maybe someone figures it out or maybe not.  I already cleaned up in HDCP brackets that day and made probably a grand of profit depending on the size of the tournament and # of brackets run. 

You think I am the only person who could think of this stuff?

Come on people !!!  It's not a simple solution.  But you get a lot more than you think for your $10 national dues.
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morpheus

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Re: USBC proposes fee increase
« Reply #56 on: January 15, 2016, 06:24:14 PM »
I've said this multiple times...

1. Present a plan for how the additional funds will be invested and how it will benefit membership. For example, increased membership, retaining membership, and/or increased tournament entries result in revenue targets to the organization.

2. Who is accountable for these programs? Who gets fired if they don't work because that's how it works in the real world. Investments over the last twenty years have produced exactly squat...the only constant is decreasing membership numbers.

I would happily pay way more than what's being asked for if I had any confidence it would make a difference. Just asking for more money and saying trust me isn't realistic based on their track record...show me you have a plan and I'm all in.
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freak761

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Re: USBC proposes fee increase
« Reply #57 on: January 15, 2016, 10:28:50 PM »
I'm with ya, morpheus, but these guys have been ignorant and just plain defiant when you ask questions or make suggestions. I think that's what has been aggravating people the most.
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12XSECH

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Re: USBC proposes fee increase
« Reply #58 on: January 16, 2016, 07:57:51 AM »
If you bowled in a league and someone took off with the money..thats because someone gave sole possession of the account to one person. You can set up an account that needs 3 signatures before the account is cashed out.
As far as the people in favor of the increase, explain why memberships are down and how is the 5 bucks going to bring people back? The usbc is run terribly, they had lay offices, cut all of the prizes, lost a ton of memberships etc... Now they want more for doing less? I think people feel that if "usbc" is attached to their league its a better league....Well its not. I have yet to see the usbc enforce a single rule when a rule has been broken. All we got was the run around. Leagues will survive with or without the usbc. Next year when the 32 team league goes unsanctioned thats 670 bucks that they wont be getting. Not that that will put a dent in their pocket (its small change) but when other leagues start doing it they will feel the affect. There is no reason to have them, leagues can manage themselves if they do it properly. And guess what? Nobody will still get the key chain or the towel.
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spmcgivern

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Re: USBC proposes fee increase
« Reply #59 on: January 16, 2016, 09:48:00 AM »
12XSECH,

I appreciate your enthusiasm.  Someone has to question the status quo.

But I have yet to hear what you want done by USBC.  I understand you are unhappy with what they have done.  You have asked for the USBC to lay out some kind of plan to justify the additional dues.  But what would you say if you didn't agree with what they proposed?  Ask them to go back to the drawing board? 

If the general consensus is members want awards again, that is something USBC would need to know in order to better suit the desires of those members.  If the general consensus is do everything to increase membership, then perhaps they could do something towards that. 

But as of now, no one has stated what they want the USBC to do.  So they will do whatever they determine to be in the best interest of USBC. 

And again, the increase in dues was NOT proposed by USBC.  It was suggested by a member of USBC.  Perhaps that person thinks giving USBC more funding would equal a better organization.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
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JohnP

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Re: USBC proposes fee increase
« Reply #60 on: January 16, 2016, 10:30:48 AM »
The comments are repeating and becoming personal.  Topic locked.  --  JohnP
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