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Author Topic: Understanding the dif between Fronts Issues and Rear Issues..Local THS  (Read 6699 times)

TheGom

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Understanding the dif between Fronts Issues and Rear Issues..Local THS
« on: September 06, 2013, 06:35:34 PM »
I a trying to understand the lanes better, but I am having a tough time understand if the fronts are the issue or the rear is.

Our THS shot really moves in game one even for a slightly below ave hand. Many people miss left early in the night. I also see many shots that look good, but wham...left of the pocket!

The shop said bring something with shine this year which I did, but if I am a 1/2 mph slow it rips Brooklyn just like that or thru the nose.

I heard that these synthetic lanes have a touch of friction on the fronts which causes the ball to loose some skid which I have no issues doing. I also heard that they replaced the fronts in March this year and this is why the last few weeks, scoring soared.

Two weeks in, and they are back to where they were last year...ripping across.

How does one read the front of the lanes them self, because the rest of my team has no clue period on lane play and cannot help me.

Thanks TG
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 10:20:27 PM by TheGom »
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avabob

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Re: Understanding the dif between Fronts Issues and Rear Issues..Local THS
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2013, 06:46:08 PM »
A couple of things to remember about synthetic lanes, and modern balls.  First, synthetics tend to be very slick with oil, but the friction increases dramatically as the oil dissipates.  Second, modern balls dissipate oil very rapidly.  The combination of these two factor means that break down in the heads is always going to be a bigger problem than the back ends, where you want the ball to react. 
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blesseddad

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Re: Understanding the dif between Fronts Issues and Rear Issues..Local THS
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2013, 07:51:16 PM »
Quote from: avabob on September 06, 2013, 06:46:08 PM
A couple of things to remember about synthetic lanes, and modern balls.  First, synthetics tend to be very slick with oil, but the friction increases dramatically as the oil dissipates.  Second, modern balls dissipate oil very rapidly.  The combination of these two factor means that break down in the heads is always going to be a bigger problem than the back ends, where you want the ball to react.

Use the front to get the ball to the place that best stores energy and hits with the most power.  The trouble comes when the fronts begin the process too early IMO and the ball has little left when it gets to the back.
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avabob

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Re: Understanding the dif between Fronts Issues and Rear Issues..Local THS
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2013, 09:06:15 PM »
Most people will tell you that burnout of rotational energy is the biggest factor in a ball not hitting in todays game.  That problem starts in the fronts, not the backs. 
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Good Times Good Times

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Re: Understanding the dif between Fronts Issues and Rear Issues..Local THS
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2013, 10:01:59 PM »
Possibly a combination of both.   :-\  If our goal is to get the ball to layoff much easier (referencing the missing slow and the ball turning left) you may want to go with a ball that is very clean thru the front and mild out of the back of the pattern.  I like equipment like my MoJave and Strike King to my Karma at most and have a driller find a layout for you based on your specs etc to help aid in this goal.  These balls can backend plenty on a shot like this, the goal again, get downlane as effortless as possible.  Don't forget a little hand position adjustment as well... ;)

My Wednesday night THS plays on the dry side with the outsides FLYING and the backends clean and FLYING.  Missing slow isn't an option.   :P
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GTx2

TheGom

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Re: Understanding the dif between Fronts Issues and Rear Issues..Local THS
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2013, 10:28:46 PM »
Quote from: Good Times Good Times on September 06, 2013, 10:01:59 PM
Possibly a combination of both.   :-\  If our goal is to get the ball to layoff much easier (referencing the missing slow and the ball turning left) you may want to go with a ball that is very clean thru the front and mild out of the back of the pattern.  I like equipment like my MoJave and Strike King to my Karma at most and have a driller find a layout for you based on your specs etc to help aid in this goal.  These balls can backend plenty on a shot like this, the goal again, get downlane as effortless as possible.  Don't forget a little hand position adjustment as well... ;)

My Wednesday night THS plays on the dry side with the outsides FLYING and the backends clean and FLYING.  Missing slow isn't an option.   :P

My best ball on so far on our shot is a older Storm X Factor......I get a good look from my Tropical Heat Blk/Silver but I just cannot seem to line up as well as my X Factor.

Ordered a Track 300C solid last week and your comments about clean up front and mild off the back seem to match this ball. You said exactly what I felt I needed and I hope get it with this ball.
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Understanding the dif between Fronts Issues and Rear Issues..Local THS
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2013, 08:48:49 AM »
I bowl on a quite wet heads fresh league shot.  Where there is dry on the side and at 35 feet one can hear sparks.  Shots in the first game with any pearl missed by 1 inch at the break point go Brooklyn and miss the head pin by a good amount.

The solution is no pearls!  Solids are Sooooo much smoother off wet dry!  I use for the first game either a Sonic X Solid(today's similar ball is a Roto Grip Shout, or I use a Storm Hot Wire, today's replacement would be a RotoGrip Rumble.  The Shout has low flare/diff like .25 the Hot Wire/Rumble have flare/diff of about .35.

By the way, I also own the same cored Sonic X pearl.  If I can or dare use it early it is so much faster off the dry than the Sonic X solid that it as it explodes off the dry and hits the 1 pin the one pin often goes off the side wall and then goes all the way over and slams the other side wall.  Also if I miss at the break by what looks like one board is goes sailing Brooklyn past the head pin.

By the second game things (the spark)slows down oil carries down and I can use stronger pearls hybrids and solids, though the solids are often now too slow off the now sloppier backends.

Good luck on matching up to your condition!  By the way all solid solutions mentioned above for the first game are pin down or pin along side!  This to reduce backend.  No pin ups!  When fresh sparky like this!

Regards,

Luckylefty
PS note the Track 300c is a pearl.  It may however work on your condition!
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scotts33

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Re: Understanding the dif between Fronts Issues and Rear Issues..Local THS
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2013, 10:09:28 AM »
Your issue is related to equipment but it's mainly ball roll and axis rotation.  Those that can't change their axis rotation usually blame it on the lane condition and equipment rather than themselves.  See some vids on how to change your axis rotation and learn how to get more forward roll.  You will see less dramatic change of direction off the spot.  IMO that's your real issue (ball roll and axis rotation) then use a ball with correct layout and tweak surface for what the lane condition is to match up best. 

BYW...the new Track 300c Solid is a solid.  I am not sure that is what you seek with a high Rg and lots of motor 2.58 and .055.  http://trackbowling.com/products/product_detail/300c_solid

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Scott

avabob

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Re: Understanding the dif between Fronts Issues and Rear Issues..Local THS
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2013, 11:20:07 AM »
The ability to decrease axis rotation ( not rev rate ) is the most important tool in becoming versatile.  I would go so far as to say that for most people too much axis rotation is a liability much of the time.  It definitely is on flatter patterns, but for guys who don't have enough revs it becomes a problem on house shots because it ends up forcing guys to get too deep and loop the ball too wide around the oil with the result being burn out and poor hitting power at best, and inability to keep the ball off the head pin at worst. 

The only pro with a super high axis rotation today is Pete, and he is successful with it because he has the softest release in the game.  Even then he hits conditions that he just can't play on because of the high axis rotation 
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Understanding the dif between Fronts Issues and Rear Issues..Local THS
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2013, 01:21:41 PM »
I am trying to understand the answers.  The Gom has an axis rotation problem?  How can one tell?

As to the Track 300c, I did not realize they had changed it from it's former pearl design and .25 diff core.  What a change!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS I wonder which version The Gom purchased?
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itsallaboutme

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Re: Understanding the dif between Fronts Issues and Rear Issues..Local THS
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2013, 02:04:23 PM »
LL,

What avabob and scotts33 are saying is the same thing I told you in the post about 1.5" pin balls.

From the sounds of Gom's description it is a short pattern and he has a lot of axis rotation.  If they replaced the lane panels in March they are probably getting more skid in the front of the lane so it magnifies his over reaction as it come out of the oil.  If there was friction in the front it would blend out his reaction.
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Understanding the dif between Fronts Issues and Rear Issues..Local THS
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2013, 03:56:06 PM »
It's all about,

Maybe you could point me to that post.  I searched and cannot find.

Thanks,

Luckylefty
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It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

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itsallaboutme

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Re: Understanding the dif between Fronts Issues and Rear Issues..Local THS
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2013, 04:06:54 PM »
Axis Leverage or 0 degree drill angles- in Drilling and Layouts.  Last post on the topic was in June.
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TheGom

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Re: Understanding the dif between Fronts Issues and Rear Issues..Local THS
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2013, 05:03:08 PM »
Gosh, were do I start other then I feel that all of you are darn near spot on! I agree, my axis tilt is an issue and I bet I would see better results with less tilt and more roll.

My track is high to average on my Strike balls and near the holes on my Spare ball. I have worked with a friend on getting less tilt and more roll and the results were huge! Heavy Roll which gave me great carry and less splits. I can release a ball this way because i my spare ball is not with me then i use my strike ball and flatten it out. I need to revert back to this release and let the ball do more of the work instead of the hard change of direction on this tighter pattern.

Back to ball selection....solids vs pearls. Currently, my only solids are a RG Cell and a Hammer BW. The Cell had my high game last year on these lanes but a rarely used it. Need to get it back to the stock finish and give it a go again.

I was looking at the Track 300c Solid based on the reviews in BTM, and it being a solid ball which I really needed to add one to my arsenal. Other solids that had my eye were the Storm IQ Tour and RG Disturbed but I felt that they might be to strong for our shot, thus I went the weaker solid in the 300C.

Scotts33.....please explain your comment about this ball. To flippy with my Tilt was your thoughts? Lower RG and a smoother motor is what I need? Thought of what those are?

Thanks again to those that helped...great info and observation from members with very little info to go on. This is why I love boards with knowledgable members so I can learn something everyday and get better because of it.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2013, 05:15:31 PM by TheGom »
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avabob

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Re: Understanding the dif between Fronts Issues and Rear Issues..Local THS
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2013, 05:51:32 PM »
I think another factor not mentioned is the trend to very stronger shell and core matchups.  I have talked to ball reps who candidly agree that they are putting out equipment that is way to aggressive on house shots where plenty of friction is available.  Take a look at the most popular releases in the last couple of years, and you find the Frantic and Road balls from storm match  up better than their super aggressive asymmetrical stuff for most people.  Brunswick came out with the symmetrical versa max 18 months ago, and it was more popular than the more aggressive Nexus line for many bowlers.  Hammer Blue Vibe has been a very good ball ( at least a couple of the guys on the USBC record setting tournament team used it ).   
« Last Edit: September 07, 2013, 05:53:26 PM by avabob »
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