BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: TheGom on September 06, 2013, 06:35:34 PM
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I a trying to understand the lanes better, but I am having a tough time understand if the fronts are the issue or the rear is.
Our THS shot really moves in game one even for a slightly below ave hand. Many people miss left early in the night. I also see many shots that look good, but wham...left of the pocket!
The shop said bring something with shine this year which I did, but if I am a 1/2 mph slow it rips Brooklyn just like that or thru the nose.
I heard that these synthetic lanes have a touch of friction on the fronts which causes the ball to loose some skid which I have no issues doing. I also heard that they replaced the fronts in March this year and this is why the last few weeks, scoring soared.
Two weeks in, and they are back to where they were last year...ripping across.
How does one read the front of the lanes them self, because the rest of my team has no clue period on lane play and cannot help me.
Thanks TG
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A couple of things to remember about synthetic lanes, and modern balls. First, synthetics tend to be very slick with oil, but the friction increases dramatically as the oil dissipates. Second, modern balls dissipate oil very rapidly. The combination of these two factor means that break down in the heads is always going to be a bigger problem than the back ends, where you want the ball to react.
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A couple of things to remember about synthetic lanes, and modern balls. First, synthetics tend to be very slick with oil, but the friction increases dramatically as the oil dissipates. Second, modern balls dissipate oil very rapidly. The combination of these two factor means that break down in the heads is always going to be a bigger problem than the back ends, where you want the ball to react.
Use the front to get the ball to the place that best stores energy and hits with the most power. The trouble comes when the fronts begin the process too early IMO and the ball has little left when it gets to the back.
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Most people will tell you that burnout of rotational energy is the biggest factor in a ball not hitting in todays game. That problem starts in the fronts, not the backs.
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Possibly a combination of both. :-\ If our goal is to get the ball to layoff much easier (referencing the missing slow and the ball turning left) you may want to go with a ball that is very clean thru the front and mild out of the back of the pattern. I like equipment like my MoJave and Strike King to my Karma at most and have a driller find a layout for you based on your specs etc to help aid in this goal. These balls can backend plenty on a shot like this, the goal again, get downlane as effortless as possible. Don't forget a little hand position adjustment as well... ;)
My Wednesday night THS plays on the dry side with the outsides FLYING and the backends clean and FLYING. Missing slow isn't an option. :P
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Possibly a combination of both. :-\ If our goal is to get the ball to layoff much easier (referencing the missing slow and the ball turning left) you may want to go with a ball that is very clean thru the front and mild out of the back of the pattern. I like equipment like my MoJave and Strike King to my Karma at most and have a driller find a layout for you based on your specs etc to help aid in this goal. These balls can backend plenty on a shot like this, the goal again, get downlane as effortless as possible. Don't forget a little hand position adjustment as well... ;)
My Wednesday night THS plays on the dry side with the outsides FLYING and the backends clean and FLYING. Missing slow isn't an option. :P
My best ball on so far on our shot is a older Storm X Factor......I get a good look from my Tropical Heat Blk/Silver but I just cannot seem to line up as well as my X Factor.
Ordered a Track 300C solid last week and your comments about clean up front and mild off the back seem to match this ball. You said exactly what I felt I needed and I hope get it with this ball.
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I bowl on a quite wet heads fresh league shot. Where there is dry on the side and at 35 feet one can hear sparks. Shots in the first game with any pearl missed by 1 inch at the break point go Brooklyn and miss the head pin by a good amount.
The solution is no pearls! Solids are Sooooo much smoother off wet dry! I use for the first game either a Sonic X Solid(today's similar ball is a Roto Grip Shout, or I use a Storm Hot Wire, today's replacement would be a RotoGrip Rumble. The Shout has low flare/diff like .25 the Hot Wire/Rumble have flare/diff of about .35.
By the way, I also own the same cored Sonic X pearl. If I can or dare use it early it is so much faster off the dry than the Sonic X solid that it as it explodes off the dry and hits the 1 pin the one pin often goes off the side wall and then goes all the way over and slams the other side wall. Also if I miss at the break by what looks like one board is goes sailing Brooklyn past the head pin.
By the second game things (the spark)slows down oil carries down and I can use stronger pearls hybrids and solids, though the solids are often now too slow off the now sloppier backends.
Good luck on matching up to your condition! By the way all solid solutions mentioned above for the first game are pin down or pin along side! This to reduce backend. No pin ups! When fresh sparky like this!
Regards,
Luckylefty
PS note the Track 300c is a pearl. It may however work on your condition!
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Your issue is related to equipment but it's mainly ball roll and axis rotation. Those that can't change their axis rotation usually blame it on the lane condition and equipment rather than themselves. See some vids on how to change your axis rotation and learn how to get more forward roll. You will see less dramatic change of direction off the spot. IMO that's your real issue (ball roll and axis rotation) then use a ball with correct layout and tweak surface for what the lane condition is to match up best.
BYW...the new Track 300c Solid is a solid. I am not sure that is what you seek with a high Rg and lots of motor 2.58 and .055. http://trackbowling.com/products/product_detail/300c_solid
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The ability to decrease axis rotation ( not rev rate ) is the most important tool in becoming versatile. I would go so far as to say that for most people too much axis rotation is a liability much of the time. It definitely is on flatter patterns, but for guys who don't have enough revs it becomes a problem on house shots because it ends up forcing guys to get too deep and loop the ball too wide around the oil with the result being burn out and poor hitting power at best, and inability to keep the ball off the head pin at worst.
The only pro with a super high axis rotation today is Pete, and he is successful with it because he has the softest release in the game. Even then he hits conditions that he just can't play on because of the high axis rotation
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I am trying to understand the answers. The Gom has an axis rotation problem? How can one tell?
As to the Track 300c, I did not realize they had changed it from it's former pearl design and .25 diff core. What a change!
REgards,
Luckylefty
PS I wonder which version The Gom purchased?
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LL,
What avabob and scotts33 are saying is the same thing I told you in the post about 1.5" pin balls.
From the sounds of Gom's description it is a short pattern and he has a lot of axis rotation. If they replaced the lane panels in March they are probably getting more skid in the front of the lane so it magnifies his over reaction as it come out of the oil. If there was friction in the front it would blend out his reaction.
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It's all about,
Maybe you could point me to that post. I searched and cannot find.
Thanks,
Luckylefty
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Axis Leverage or 0 degree drill angles- in Drilling and Layouts. Last post on the topic was in June.
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Gosh, were do I start other then I feel that all of you are darn near spot on! I agree, my axis tilt is an issue and I bet I would see better results with less tilt and more roll.
My track is high to average on my Strike balls and near the holes on my Spare ball. I have worked with a friend on getting less tilt and more roll and the results were huge! Heavy Roll which gave me great carry and less splits. I can release a ball this way because i my spare ball is not with me then i use my strike ball and flatten it out. I need to revert back to this release and let the ball do more of the work instead of the hard change of direction on this tighter pattern.
Back to ball selection....solids vs pearls. Currently, my only solids are a RG Cell and a Hammer BW. The Cell had my high game last year on these lanes but a rarely used it. Need to get it back to the stock finish and give it a go again.
I was looking at the Track 300c Solid based on the reviews in BTM, and it being a solid ball which I really needed to add one to my arsenal. Other solids that had my eye were the Storm IQ Tour and RG Disturbed but I felt that they might be to strong for our shot, thus I went the weaker solid in the 300C.
Scotts33.....please explain your comment about this ball. To flippy with my Tilt was your thoughts? Lower RG and a smoother motor is what I need? Thought of what those are?
Thanks again to those that helped...great info and observation from members with very little info to go on. This is why I love boards with knowledgable members so I can learn something everyday and get better because of it.
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I think another factor not mentioned is the trend to very stronger shell and core matchups. I have talked to ball reps who candidly agree that they are putting out equipment that is way to aggressive on house shots where plenty of friction is available. Take a look at the most popular releases in the last couple of years, and you find the Frantic and Road balls from storm match up better than their super aggressive asymmetrical stuff for most people. Brunswick came out with the symmetrical versa max 18 months ago, and it was more popular than the more aggressive Nexus line for many bowlers. Hammer Blue Vibe has been a very good ball ( at least a couple of the guys on the USBC record setting tournament team used it ).
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I think another factor not mentioned is the trend to very stronger shell and core matchups. I have talked to ball reps who candidly agree that they are putting out equipment that is way to aggressive on house shots where plenty of friction is available. Take a look at the most popular releases in the last couple of years, and you find the Frantic and Road balls from storm match up better than their super aggressive asymmetrical stuff for most people. Brunswick came out with the symmetrical versa max 18 months ago, and it was more popular than the more aggressive Nexus line for many bowlers. Hammer Blue Vibe has been a very good ball ( at least a couple of the guys on the USBC record setting tournament team used it ).
Understood....my Tropical Heat is not that strong is it? My X Factor cannot be that strong based on today's standards can it?
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I think some definitions need to be gone over and some of these links will help the reader understand axis of rotation and axis tilt plus how they interact with the bowler and his/her ball layouts and ball surfaces used on specific lane conditions that will help rather than hinder.
Read...... how to get measurements your pro shop operator should be able to tell you all of these measurements so he/she can drill your equipment correctly for you. http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index.php?title=Proshop_Information#Bowler_Measurements_.26_Reference
You can also video yourself and get these measurements with the overlay in the bowlingchat.net wiki http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index.php?title=File:AxisTilt-Rotation-Overlay.png http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index.php?title=File:Rotationtiltball.JPG
A good topic to read on the effect of axis tilt and how axis of rotation works with tilt. http://forum.bowlingchat.net/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=556 Matt Costa's responses are very good.
Generally what I see in these discussions is all about how specific layouts or equipment are going to help alleviate issues but in my little reality it's your physical game and the changes you can make that will make the most obvious changes. But folks are always looking for the easy way out thru equipment rather than changes to their physical bowling technique that in the long run will make you a better bowler rather than try to purchase it thru equipment. Don't get me wrong I enjoy a new ball as much as the next guy but money spent on coaching and able to change releases is way more important than equipment.
One other factor it's easier for most average bowlers to change AR on the fly rather than AT. You are pretty much blessed with what AT you have but AR can be changed much more easily and that's why I don't understand with players that continually fight jumpy transitions off of the dry that they can not change some AR to lessen it. I would guess that their ball fit is where the issue exists. Pro's can change tilt but I haven't met to many average players that can change AT on the fly AR can be changed easily with some practice.
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This video will explain how to video yourself and measure tilt, rotation and revs.
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index.php?title=MeasureAxisRotation%26Tilt%26Revs
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The Gom,
As to balls that are solids. Much smoother in response to friction and often used when there is a harsh transition from oil to dry (ie no blend) when conditions are very fresh. There are so many good lower differential (less flare solids out there). And they are wonderful tools.
My Sonix X solid diff of .18 ....this means less than 2 inches of flare! Todays replacement the Rotogrip Shout diff of .025. A Storm Hot Wire with smooth Accutread and a diff of .35 today's replacement the RotoGrip Rumble with similar diff.
These balls transition so much smoother and slower once finding friction than a strong assymetrical like the Roto Grip Cell, and the Hammer BW.
Just as in golf not all clubs need to be drivers, tearing a golf course apart with a 3 iron off the tee is just as fun as tearing a short oil shot apart with my Sonic X solid!
As to assymetrics as my pro says, "on some of these short patterns one probably doesn't need assymetirics and that quick of a response to friction!"
The Gom, even the balls you are a listing are slightly weaker than your super strong stuff, in all reality if you were a golfer I would say you had a bag of Modern super powered drivers and maybe 3 woods.
The stuff I am using is delighting me. Especially combined with my lessons and slightly changed roll for league patterns. Thanks coach! Oh I still love my stronger axis rotation for many long pattern tournies. Last year with that roll I almost got to bowl for another mega prize!
Get a full bag and watch your scores soar, these companies today make great stuff!
REgards,
Luckylefty
PS realize that even with a ball reviews approved roll, many top bowlers in my area on the southpaw side are up to nearly 30 pins different (lower)on our local left handed quiz versus other houses they bowl on. Fortunately due to some of the ball solutions above, I'm not one of them.
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TG,
The solution is to know your technique and stats. before you worry about equipment. If you don't know your stats. you are wasting $$$ on equipment. See my stats. in my profile. Every serious bowler that is purchasing more than a ball a year better know their sweet spot for dual angle layouts and how they match up to lane conditions with layout and ball surface....factoring in their stats. and technique.
Too many are looking for easy answers by purchasing another ball.
Go to bowlingchat.net and post a video JMerrill is free help. Or ask questions if you don't have a video.
BTW....take a look at John Jowdy's ring finger lead drill (in other words try leading with your ring finger) this will help with less axis of rotation and staying under the ball with more forward roll. http://bowlingthismonth.com/btmBB/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=217
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Jmerrill?
Regards,
Luckylefty
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Jmerrill?
Regards,
Luckylefty
Jim Merrell aka JMerrell sorry I spelled it incorrectly in my post. Post a video in Coaching section on bowlingchat.net and Jim will help you. One of the best coaches around. http://forum.bowlingchat.net/viewforum.php?f=12 or if you can't post a video then ask questions much more specific information available to bowlers on that site.
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Scotts33
Again, you are spot on. It's awesome to have someone like you on this site. I can relate, am active on a golf forum and consider myself very helpful n certain areas and help members all the time over there.
Like my question to start this discussion, I at least know it's much more then just buying the latest greatest rock to roll.
I have not found anyone local who can or seems to want to give me my specs so I can learn about them, understanding them, and being able toy understand what my current strengths and weakness are and then attempt to improve on them.
I did a boot camp with a gold medal teacher. This was one of the main reasons why I paid for the boot camp as I thought that if I wanted anyone to provide me with specs, he was it. Yet, he drilled a ball for me and a gave me a video lesson but never gave me my stats even though I asked for it.
I am also working with another person locally that I thought would give me my specs for sure my specs for. Since is seemed to be a top driller I asked about my specs and my current arsenal and he watched me throw it, but again never measured me up.
I was planning to buy this ball from him and make him do my specs and then explain them to me before we drilled it up. He sorta knows the shot the I was asking about so I feel that will en up being good to help me out and learn.
But you are so right about people taking short cuts. I see all the time on the golf sites about getting a new driver with no understanding about their swing specs and what they mean. They only want the longest easiest driver and they want it to exactly this and do not understand that it is their swing that does not provide them with the results that they are seeking with no knowledge of path, angle of attack, spin ratio, launch angle on what is good and what is bad that makes all drivers bad for their swing. Quick fix syndrome
If I was a tournament player, I would be flying to someone good to get my specs if I could not find anyone locally. I am just a 2 league player who is gets into it and loves it and is after any info about bowling daily. Always trying to learn more and of course, see my average go up. I know that I can average over 200, just applying myself even more this year since as this will be my second year at this house and I know that it is more then just show up and throw into a wide 5 board area and get a strike. Felt I improved last year dealing with a house that really punished many of the players (-10 to -25 pins ave) that came from our past easy league shot. I dropped just a few
Thanks for the links, info and your help on this site. I wish I could see the pic about the clock reference from JJ article....to hard to understand without a pic for me.
Watching some ultra slow mo's on You Tube, to me it looks like many Pros ring fingers are at 10:30 at the bottom of the swing and rotate about 90 degrees to the opposite side of the ball.
It's BG...just another iPad miss type earlier
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I love this post, The Gom, you are the man and have found the solution.
Change your roll and use all equipment over .50 diff.
Regards,
Luckylefty
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I love this post, The Gom, you are the man and have found the solution.
Change your roll and use all equipment over .50 diff.
Regards,
Luckylefty
Double L, thanks for input also as you always are there to help. Explain alittle more about your comment as I rarely hear much talk about that spec and how it works and relates to me please.
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theGom
here is something else to look at... instead of looking for hook to the left or right of the lane... look for hook down the lane.. especially if it's that wet / dry on the lanes..
As for ball recommendations... low end is key.. pearl is not always bad.. drill pattern is key!! you could try a Rico drilling, which will help with the extreme reaction, and surface on the ball is key too, to tame the reaction..