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Author Topic: Untruthful pro shop. They lied to me yesterday...  (Read 12377 times)

DCNetBoy

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Untruthful pro shop. They lied to me yesterday...
« on: June 04, 2009, 10:13:05 AM »
I had an unfortunate experience in a well known pro shop in my area yesterday.    Let me tell you all about.  Then, I would like to get some feedback on what others think.

I brought a ball into the shop to be drilled.  After patiently waiting to meet with the most experienced driller in the shop, I greet him, shake his hand and then give him the ball.  He takes the ball and then proceeds to walk back to the drilling area.  (Keep in mind that I had brought in a ball a few weeks before and had it drilled with no issues.)

As he is walking to the drill, he states that he might have to charge me $10 more than what he charged me for drilling the first ball.  When he gets to the drill, he immediately puts the ball on a Determinator.  After about 20 seconds or so, I hear him say...  "I hope you didn't pay a lot for this ball..."

At that moment, I knew there was going to be a problem.  So I gave him a look as if I didn't hear him.  He then repeated what he said.

He then goes on to try to say that my brand new Virtual Gravity is not spinning properly and that he can not find the true mass bias area on the ball.  (We all know that Storm and every other company marks the mass bias on their asymmetrical balls before they leave the factory.)  

So I say, "Oh really? How often does something like this occur?"  He does not reply.  He then proceeds to pull out one of his VG's that he had in stock and puts that on the machine.  Of course, you all know that his ball spun properly.    When he spun my ball again, I noticed how loudly it was spinning because it was "wobbling"!  When he spun his, it was quiet.  LOL!

Now, before each spin on the machine, he clicks a switch in the back of the machine/table.  Can you guess what that switch might have done?!

He goes on to try explain how many Ebonite and RotoGrip balls had the same issue.  He then tries to explain how the ball was spinning properly on one axis, but not the other.  (Duh!  It can't it's wobbling all over the place!)  He then says that he might have trouble drilling my ball, but starts to look for another one of his VG's after I told him that my ball was a 14lb ball.      

While he is looking for another ball, I pick up my ball and proceed to tell him that "I will ship that ball back" and that he should not worry about drilling my ball.  He appeared a little shocked that I didn't want to get anything drilled.  From that point on, everything was just as uncomfortable as I have ever felt in a pro shop.  I knew he was lying.  I didn't want to challenge him on it because his boss, the owner of the shop, was nearby dealing with a supply distributor.  It would have looked bad if I called him out on an outright lie right in front of his boss.  So, I just walked.

As I am trying to leave, he asked me if I bought the ball from the internet.  LOL!  I said... "Oh, absolutely!"  He asked how much I paid for it and I told him that, too.  LOL!

When the owner saw me pick up my ball and put it back in my bag, I felt like everybody was looking at me like I was the bad guy.    Classic!  LOL!

I he only knew that I was going to buy two new balls from him.  LOL!  The Energy and the Fast have not hit the street yet!  LOL!  Oh well...  

The bottom line is this...  Why are pro shop owners getting upset with customers who bring in balls to get them drilled?  THEY MAKE MONEY EITHER WAY!!  They get paid if you buy from them or just get a ball drilled from them!  

Saving money is not a crime.  Yet, there is no excuse for the act lying to a customer.  I understand the point of supporting your local pro shop.  However, how do they expect someone to patronize their business when they blatantly try to mislead them.

And no, there is nothing wrong with my ball.  LOL!    

Any thoughts?...

Peace!  


 

golfnutFL

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Re: Untruthful pro shop. They lied to me yesterday...
« Reply #46 on: June 05, 2009, 04:30:33 PM »
I don't NEED them. I just like to try them all out. I keep very few balls for more than 20-25 games. Some only get rolled for 1-2 games. Depends on the ball. It's FUN to try out a bunch of different balls.

quote:
I wish I had the money to buy 50+ balls a year. I'm lucky if I can buy 1 a year. Why would someone need 50+ different balls anyways?
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Me stupid. Me believe anything. Please tell me what to do.

golfnutFL

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Re: Untruthful pro shop. They lied to me yesterday...
« Reply #47 on: June 05, 2009, 04:32:59 PM »
Exactly!

quote:


Why do some people go out and blow 50 bucks at a bar 3 days a week?  Enjoyment maybe?

sluggo35

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Re: Untruthful pro shop. They lied to me yesterday...
« Reply #48 on: June 05, 2009, 04:56:58 PM »
ball junkies are a different breed.
guilty
as for me i buy some off the internet mostly used, some new. but when my driller has a brand that i like i will get the new one from him.
not every pro shop is truthful just as every bowler is not.

DCNetBoy

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Re: Untruthful pro shop. They lied to me yesterday...
« Reply #49 on: June 05, 2009, 06:22:58 PM »
Forgive me for the long post...  


He’s baaack...

I have finally had a moment to sit and read most of the comments about this issue.  It has been quite interesting to read all of the different point of views on this matter.  

Before I get started, let me say that this issue is really not about me or my ball.  It is about “CUSTOMER SERVICE”.  If I had written out every little detail about what happened the other day, the original post might have looked like a small novel.  I was at work at the time when I wrote and I was not fully focused on getting down every single detail.  The actual experience in the shop did not take more than twenty minutes.  However, the memory of bad customer service from that particular pro shop will last a hell of a lot longer.  

Now to all of the folks who have chimed in about whether or not I was being truthful about this matter...  Let me say this...  â€œI have no need to lie” about this.  It serves no purpose in this matter.  However, I do understand that my perspective is from a “customer’s standpoint”.  And from that point of view, I did not expect for anyone to intentionally try to mislead me just because I did not purchase a ball at their place of business.

Hear are a few facts.  
1. I went to the shop to get a ball drilled and to buy a few other accessories.
2. I came in with a new ball, new inserts, and a new thumb slug.
3. When I opened my bag, the driller sees the ball and the inserts.
4. I pull the ball out of my bowling bag, (the ball is still in the plastic bag that comes with the new ball) and then I give it to him.
5. He takes the ball, pulls it out of the plastic bag, then puts the plastic bag back in my bowling bag.  He then proceeds to walk back to the drilling area.
6. As he is walking back, he says “I may have to charge you $60 dollars for the drilling.”  
7. The posted price is $50 on his pricing menu.  
8. The price that I paid two weeks before when I had another ball drilled was $50.  The exact total that I paid for the entire drilling was actually $65.  I also purchased a thumb slug from him.  The shop charges $15 for a thumb slug.

The mention of the price difference was the first blip on my radar.  I didn’t say anything because nothing had been done.  In that brief moment, I knew that there was the possibility that they had raised the price of drilling and that it just had not been posted yet.  (Possibility – He said...)  

Still with me?...

9. Read the original post for those details.
10. I knew what a “DeTerminator” machine was before I came in the shop.  However, I did not know at the time that in order to get a true reading for the mass bias, the ball should be spun at least twice.  
11. See http://www.jayhawkbowling.com/DeTerminator/DeTmanual.pdf for more info.  (Every serious bowler should read this document!!)
12. This is a key point... He did not perform the steps as they are written.  He may not have had to do so.  He knows more about his machine than I do.  However, he did not mark the ball and he definitely did not use a Pro-Sect to check the markings.
13. I watched him put the ball on the machine.  He did not spin it twice before he said “I hope you didn’t pay a lot for this ball…”.
14. When he put his ball on the machine, he did not spin it twice.  

I will say this again.  At the time, I did not know all the technical aspects of the DeTerminator machine.  But I do know what I feel like when something does not feel right.  Did I know he was trying to mislead me at the time?  No, I did not.  Did I feel like there might be an issue with getting my ball drilled at that particular moment?  Yes!  Yes, I did.

15. After spinning his ball, he spins my ball again.  (Verification – LOL!)
16. He then says... “Now, I can not give you a trade, but...” then he immediately starts to look through his inventory of balls.
17. While he is looking, he says out loud, “Here is one with a five inch pin.”

That’s when I picked up my stuff!  My “radar” was at full blast then.  There were blips all over my radar screen.  LOL!  That’s when I started to put my stuff back in the bag.

He then goes on some more about the how other companies had a few issues with their balls.  As I am picking up my bag, he tries to tell me about how he could give me a discount if I purchased a ball, bag, and shoes at the same time.

Small talk, small talk...  Gotta go!  That’s when I walked out.

I called Storm later that afternoon.  I tell the tech rep that I wanted to ask a few questions about mass bias settings/markings.  I also told him that I thought that the shop might have been trying to pull a fast one because I brought a ball into the shop.  He agreed.

After asking him a few questions, the rep then stated that it was “very rare” that their balls are mislabled or marked incorrectly.  He did say that is does occur once in a while, but it was unlikely to occur.  He also said that if a pro shop’s machine is not calibrated properly, or if the ball starts to wobble, that you might not get a true reading from the DeTerminator machine.  He then offered to ship me another ball if my ball turned out to be not up to specs after I had it checked at another shop.   (Remember the thing is said about about “Customer Support”?)  

After the conversation with Storm, I looked for and found the document listed above.

The first chance I got, I went to another shop to get my ball checked.  The original pro shop driller did not become a “liar” on the day I went into his shop.  He became a liar after I got the ball checked out “properly” and drilled at another shop.  The rest is history!

Customer support is not about trying to mislead a customer in order to make a sale.  To me, that is unacceptable and unprofessional.  And folks, I don’t care how you look at it, that is exactly what occurred in this situation.  I guess he was trying to make me feel like I had purchased “inferior” equipment because it was not purchased from his shop.  

He checked my stuff, told me it wasn’t up to snuff, then tried to sell me something.  Twice!  Can you blame him?  Not if you are in the pro shop business.  LOL!  He saw a customer come in with a new ball AND inserts, then probably thought that I was trying to cut his profits.  

From a customer’s standpoint...  Hell yeah, you can blame him.  He’s trying to get my money and I am trying to save it.  LOL!  Seriously, why would he even take the risk?  I had just come in a few weeks before to get something drilled.  (From my perspective, everything went fine that day.)  They didn’t go out of business because I saved thirty dollars.  LOL!  I even told him then that I would be back in June.  I also told him then that I was replacing all of my old equipment because I want to move down to 14 pound balls.  If he had an issue with me bringing in a ball from outside of his shop, then that was the perfect time to say something.    

Did he know that I was waiting to purchase the Virtual Energy from him later this month?  No.  But I sure planned on telling him after I got the Gravity drilled.  Did he know that I also wanted to purchase one more ball after that?  No.  But I planned on telling him that, too.  In trying to get his $20 or $40 dollars back or whatever, he missed out on another $200 or $400+ from the pending sales alone.  

To the pro shop owners, do what you do to keep your business going.  But keep in mind that saving money is not a crime.  The next time someone brings a ball to you to be drilled, accept their money just as if they bought that ball from your shop.  The last time I checked, the color of money is still GREEN!  Whether you want to save it or earn it is up to you.  Your customer support should be the same for all of your customers.  Treat them with respect and professionalism and they will gladly go out their way to spend at your shop.


PEACE!

Kid Jete

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Re: Untruthful pro shop. They lied to me yesterday...
« Reply #50 on: June 05, 2009, 06:38:14 PM »
I agree with you.  Do what you want, it's your money.  If I feel like someone is trying to pull a fast one on me I'm outta there.  Maybe I'm wrong and maybe I'm not but why should I spend MY money when I don't feel right about it.  In this case it sounds like you were spot on in your judgement.  Good for you, bad for the shop.  I never could understand the argument about buying balls from the shop in the first place.  It's the consumers money and the consumer can spend it where and how they want.  Why should a shop just expect a consumer to buy a ball from them and not online?  There is plenty the shop can do, including not drilling online balls, if they want to just throw away business on principle alone.  If you choose to be in the pro shop business find a way to make it work or get out... just don't try to rip off a smart customer, make sure you KNOW they are gullable.  HA!

Atochabsh

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Re: Untruthful pro shop. They lied to me yesterday...
« Reply #51 on: June 05, 2009, 07:51:28 PM »
There's always more to the story when people start pointing out the holes in the first version.

But its your money and like was said, if you feel uncomfortable with him don't use him.  And of course we don't have his side of the story.  I would be highly doubtful that you would buy a ball from him much less two as you stated since you came in with ball, slub and grips.  

Erin

laufaye

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Re: Untruthful pro shop. They lied to me yesterday...
« Reply #52 on: June 05, 2009, 08:46:22 PM »
quote:
I agree with you.  Do what you want, it's your money.  If I feel like someone is trying to pull a fast one on me I'm outta there.  Maybe I'm wrong and maybe I'm not but why should I spend MY money when I don't feel right about it.  In this case it sounds like you were spot on in your judgement.  Good for you, bad for the shop.  I never could understand the argument about buying balls from the shop in the first place.  It's the consumers money and the consumer can spend it where and how they want.  Why should a shop just expect a consumer to buy a ball from them and not online?  There is plenty the shop can do, including not drilling online balls, if they want to just throw away business on principle alone.  If you choose to be in the pro shop business find a way to make it work or get out... just don't try to rip off a smart customer, make sure you KNOW they are gullable.  HA!


I cannot agree more, you sound like a smart person to me, I think the smartest.

I am off to Costco getting some ribeye and then head to Ruth Chris, I think they should not expect me to order the steak there, I got my own, but I will tell them your story to smart them up.....

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Laufaye

kingpin268

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Re: Untruthful pro shop. They lied to me yesterday...
« Reply #53 on: June 05, 2009, 09:31:00 PM »
that little switch behind the spinner would be the on/off switch
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tc300

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Re: Untruthful pro shop. They lied to me yesterday...
« Reply #54 on: June 06, 2009, 02:51:19 AM »
Quote
Quick question.....I bring you 50-60 balls per year to drill for me for the past 3-4 years....do you still put me in the back of the line?

Quote


great point...... but i wouldnt want my ball driller to rush drilling and layn out my ball(s) fyi.

six pack

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Re: Untruthful pro shop. They lied to me yesterday...
« Reply #55 on: June 06, 2009, 11:13:24 AM »
50 bucks to punch 3 holes in a bowling ball is easy money,he should of just drilled the ball and kept quiet,if he thought the ball was miss marked or not,the customer is always right.
the pro shop should have a sign stating NOT Responsible For Internet Products!
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The harder I try the harder they fall

SPCD

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Re: Untruthful pro shop. They lied to me yesterday...
« Reply #56 on: June 06, 2009, 11:47:10 AM »
Sorry I got to this party late but it looks like we are getting some interesting perspectives from both sides of this issue.
 
The pro shop being discussed is Sports Plus/Carmen Don Pro Shop in Alexandria VA.  I am the owner and have been for 22 years.
 
I overheard much of this conversation while the customer was in the shop, as did the distributor that was visiting.  We discussed it briefly after the customer left.  We both agreed that this is a delicate situation due too the anti-internet feelings throughout some of the pro shop industry.  Every manufacturer can tell you horror stories about less than reputable pro shops intentionally misleading their customers by claiming that everything on the internet is junk being unloaded on suckers.  There are also plenty of discussions on this board about pro shops abusing customers that bring in a ball from “outside their shop”.  Unfortunately many bowlers have been conditioned to expect the worst when they show up with an internet ball.  

SP/CD Pro Shop does not share this philosophy.  We welcome every customer and have no problem with customers purchasing their equipment from their seller of choice.  If a pro shop has set their drill only charge at a level that accurately represents their technical knowledge and their contribution to the ultimate success of the product, where the ball came from should not be an issue.

The quality of the product should always be an issue whether the ball came from our shelf or some outside source.  Storm is a very reputable company with a high level of integrity.  Bill Crisman and his staff would not have it any other way.  Storm would not intentionally try to pass off a ball with a defect as a first line ball.  However, like every other company, one occasionally slips through their quality control.  Bowling balls are manufactured and inspected by humans and humans occasionally make mistakes.  Our shop, like many, has made a significant investment in a Determinator to help us identify this occasional problem which allows us to improve the quality of service to our customers.

When we find one of these mistakes, we feel an obligation to address the issue.  Could be punch three holes, send the customer out the door, and hope the ball works?  Sure we could but that would be a disservice to the customer and the manufacturer and we would not be doing our job we’re being paid to do.  

In this particular case, our driller was pretty busy that day and apparently did not recognize the level of concern this customer was feeling or he would not have made a cavalier comment like “I hope you didn’t pay a lot for this ball”.  Obviously the cost of this ball or where it came from had nothing to do with the issue but was simply normal pro shop banter between two individuals that had know each other for years and had interacted numerous times.

In my opinion, the driller’s apparent mistake was that he interacted with this individual on a level he felt appropriate based on his perception of the customer’s technical knowledge and his comfort level with our shop.  Perhaps he should have slowed down and explained things in more detail but then he probably would have been perceived as talking down to a technically knowledgeable bowler.

This ball driller is a highly skilled, IBPSIA certified, nationally recognized expert at what he does.  He works in a pro shop that prides itself on its integrity and honesty.  I have the utmost respect for this individual and trust him fully with my business.  I can assure you there was no intent to mislead anyone.

I won’t turn this into a book by addressing each of the 17 points made by this writer but I would like to respond to the $60 charge versus the $50 posted price.  The last time he was in he purchased a thumb slug, a $15 charge.  This time he brought his own, a $10 installation charge.  Nothing deceptive going on here.

We try and help every customer get the most out of their bowling equipment and bowling experience but obviously we can’t make everyone happy.  Sorry.

One final, unrelated comment.  Bowl Expo is coming to Las Vegas the end of June.  During the convention, our pro shop is being recognized as the IBPSIA Bowling Pro Shop of the Year.  This prestigious award is voted on by our peers and some of the leading experts in the bowling industry.  I would like to thank my staff, including the individual discussed here, for their collective effort in earning us this award.



BowlingWolf

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Re: Untruthful pro shop. They lied to me yesterday...
« Reply #57 on: June 06, 2009, 12:04:22 PM »
SPCD,

Very courteous and professional response.  

It is no wonder your shop garners prestigious awards for service rendered.

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mumzie

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Re: Untruthful pro shop. They lied to me yesterday...
« Reply #58 on: June 06, 2009, 03:25:03 PM »
Wow. Awesome, professional response. Makes me wish I lived in that area, just to do business with one of the "good guys".

I would also like to add something to this post. In the embroidery business, we are often asked "will you embroider on MY item? I bought shirts at XXX, because they're cheaper. How much do you charge?"

We have several policies in place for just that question.
1. If you purchase the goods from us, and we screw something up, you, the customer will likely never even know about it. If you purchase the goods elsewhere, there is a (very small) risk that something could happen to your item - and we will not be held responsible.
I would imagine that most pro shops take the same approach. If they mis punch a ball they sell, they'll fix the problem - if they need to replace the ball to make it right, they will. If you come in with a ball purchased from an internet site, if they mess up, they'll probably try to fix with plug and/or slug, but otherwise, you're on your own.

2. The time it takes to setup the job is the same, whether you purchase the goods from us, or from someone else. Part of the proceeds of the garment purchase help offset that setup time, so our embroidery prices are lower if you purchase the entire thing from us.
This also holds true for pro shops - it takes AT LEAST as much time to setup and drill a ball purchased elsewhere - especially if you have seen tons of seconds come in from different internet sites, and know that the prudent thing to do is weigh every ball.

3. We have our known, trusted suppliers. When we order a Large Red model 12 shirt from them today, we know that it's going to be the same size, color, and cut as the one we ordered 6 months ago. We know that the fabric is made to be decorated (whether embroidered or printed), and we know that the garment is going to hold up through washings, the dryer, and general abuse.
When customers bring us items they've purchased elsewhere, we know this is not always the case. When items are purchased from us, we offer a satisfaction guarantee, and will replace items that are defective in workmanship or materials. When someone brings items in, we offer no warranties or guarantees.
I'm sure pro shops feel the same way. A number of internet sites, are just web sites, with no inventory, no overhead, and no physical location of any kind. They drop ship from the distributors, and don't ever see the product that's delivered to their customers. So if you order a particular pin, or specific weight, the internet site has to rely on the accuracy of the supplier - we all know mistakes happen. Again - when my supplier mis-picks a shirt,and sends the black one instead of red, you will never know it happens. If you have shirts drop shipped to us, you have no way of knowing we got the right stuff.

4. I've invested a LOT of time and money in equipment, rent, overhead, special software, inventory, and expertise. I need to sell the whole package in order to stay in business. My reputation is everything - I need to make sure my customers are happy, and that they spread the good word of mouth mojo!
I know for a fact that the same is true for brick/mortar pro shops. Internet sites can just change their name and reopen tomorrow - and most people would never know the difference.

Well, anyway - just a few opinions from a fellow business owner!

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Home of the HAMBONE shirt!
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www.Shirts4Bowling.com
We Know What Bowlers Want

Home of the HAMBONE shirt!

Kid Jete

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Re: Untruthful pro shop. They lied to me yesterday...
« Reply #59 on: June 06, 2009, 04:04:42 PM »
quote:
quote:
I agree with you.  Do what you want, it's your money.  If I feel like someone is trying to pull a fast one on me I'm outta there.  Maybe I'm wrong and maybe I'm not but why should I spend MY money when I don't feel right about it.  In this case it sounds like you were spot on in your judgement.  Good for you, bad for the shop.  I never could understand the argument about buying balls from the shop in the first place.  It's the consumers money and the consumer can spend it where and how they want.  Why should a shop just expect a consumer to buy a ball from them and not online?  There is plenty the shop can do, including not drilling online balls, if they want to just throw away business on principle alone.  If you choose to be in the pro shop business find a way to make it work or get out... just don't try to rip off a smart customer, make sure you KNOW they are gullable.  HA!


I cannot agree more, you sound like a smart person to me, I think the smartest.

I am off to Costco getting some ribeye and then head to Ruth Chris, I think they should not expect me to order the steak there, I got my own, but I will tell them your story to smart them up.....

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Laufaye



You make no sense.  Why would you go into a restaraunt just to tell them you already bought steaks at Costco?  That's like personally buying a car from someone and then going to the Chevy dealership just to tell them you bought a car.  The pro shop provides the SERVICE of drilling balls and if the customer feels like buying the ball from them so be it.  Does the pro shop turn away internet balls?  No.  Would the restaraunt turn you away when you ask them to cook the steak you just bought at Costco?  Yes.  Nice try though, thanks come again.

cheech

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Re: Untruthful pro shop. They lied to me yesterday...
« Reply #60 on: June 06, 2009, 05:54:10 PM »
quote:
quote:
the one thing that sucks about proshops disliking outside balls is the kids in college. there is a collegiate pricing program that you purchase balls straight from the manufacture and you get them at about 90-100 bucks off the retail price (like 104 for high performance and 92 for benchmark type stuff) then you go to the proshop and they act like you went online to get it. i still end up saving like 50 each ball but at least the shop i go to he makes me feel like im cutting him down cuz i got it through the collegiate program
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HG:300x2(SR300 both)
HS:792(SR300)
2004 NYSPHSAA team champions
2007 NYSPHSAA individual high game(300) and series(1411-6 games)
sacred heart university bowling, frosh.
greatest accomplishment:shooting 603 and not shooting one 200 game(130,173,300)...lol
balls for sale in my profile
p.s. go leftys



I drilled balls for the Texas Southern Lady Tigers program, NCAA program.  I usually gave them a deal, I liked the girls, they were soooo thankful for any little thing.  The guy running the program though was a micro managing moron, didn't know anything about bowling.  They did well in spite of him.  They did usually plan ahead, so time was not really an issue.

I drilled balls for the University of Houston bowlers.  I got a list of who was in the program and drilled their balls for $25.  They brought balls, grips, slugs, everything.  Those kids were very grateful too.

Not all pro shops dislike college bowlers.  Some kids try to take advantage of the system though.  Some programs can get just about unlimited amounts of equipment at a very low price, about what distributors pay.  Some kids then take these balls and sell them to anyone they can find for dirt.  I have seen it.  Flooding balls into the local area, it's just the principle of the matter.

Like was mentioned earlier, most pro shops don't mind internet or blank balls being brought in.  I had ala carte pricing, so drilling was added on and was the same price whether you bought the ball from me or not.  

My customers knew I was busy year round, knew that I worked my A%% off, and the huge majority of the time didn't mind waiting.  (There was a time that I was about 5-7 days turn around on getting a ball drilled for about a month time.  Just had pro am balls, equipment league balls, state tournament in my center, AND normal business all at the same time.  Pulled some all nighters in there.

I notice DC has not come back on and answered any of the questions posed to him.
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THIS SPACE FOR RENT


ya when im at school i go to buddies pro shop cuz it slike 10 mins away and they dont care and they give the team breaks cuz alot of them went to my school. thye are cool dudes. when im home my proshop guy understands that i bring balls to him cuz before i went away i always got my stuff from the shop. i dont think he dislikes me for bringing stuff in cuz ive gone to him for 15 years. he is just an old fashioned guy that strongly prefers people to buy the ball inside the shop but he is just as happy taking your money by drilling a blank
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HG:300x2(SR300 both)
HS:792(SR300)
2004 NYSPHSAA team champions
2007 NYSPHSAA individual high game(300) and series(1411-6 games)
sacred heart university bowling, frosh.
greatest accomplishment:shooting 603 and not shooting one 200 game(130,173,300)...lol
balls for sale in my profile
p.s. go leftys