Author Topic: Untruthful pro shop. They lied to me yesterday... (Read 12373 times)

DCNetBoy · « **on:** June 04, 2009, 10:13:05 AM »

I had an unfortunate experience in a well known pro shop in my area yesterday.

Let me tell you all about. Then, I would like to get some feedback on what others think.

I brought a ball into the shop to be drilled. After patiently waiting to meet with the most experienced driller in the shop, I greet him, shake his hand and then give him the ball. He takes the ball and then proceeds to walk back to the drilling area. (Keep in mind that I had brought in a ball a few weeks before and had it drilled with no issues.)

As he is walking to the drill, he states that he might have to charge me $10 more than what he charged me for drilling the first ball. When he gets to the drill, he immediately puts the ball on a Determinator. After about 20 seconds or so, I hear him say... "I hope you didn't pay a lot for this ball..."

At that moment, I knew there was going to be a problem. So I gave him a look as if I didn't hear him. He then repeated what he said.

He then goes on to try to say that my brand new Virtual Gravity is not spinning properly and that he can not find the true mass bias area on the ball. (We all know that Storm and every other company marks the mass bias on their asymmetrical balls before they leave the factory.)

So I say, "Oh really? How often does something like this occur?" He does not reply. He then proceeds to pull out one of his VG's that he had in stock and puts that on the machine. Of course, you all know that his ball spun properly.

When he spun my ball again, I noticed how loudly it was spinning because it was "wobbling"! When he spun his, it was quiet. LOL!

Now, before each spin on the machine, he clicks a switch in the back of the machine/table. Can you guess what that switch might have done?!

He goes on to try explain how many Ebonite and RotoGrip balls had the same issue. He then tries to explain how the ball was spinning properly on one axis, but not the other. (Duh! It can't it's wobbling all over the place!) He then says that he might have trouble drilling my ball, but starts to look for another one of his VG's after I told him that my ball was a 14lb ball.

While he is looking for another ball, I pick up my ball and proceed to tell him that "I will ship that ball back" and that he should not worry about drilling my ball. He appeared a little shocked that I didn't want to get anything drilled. From that point on, everything was just as uncomfortable as I have ever felt in a pro shop. I knew he was lying. I didn't want to challenge him on it because his boss, the owner of the shop, was nearby dealing with a supply distributor. It would have looked bad if I called him out on an outright lie right in front of his boss. So, I just walked.

As I am trying to leave, he asked me if I bought the ball from the internet. LOL! I said... "Oh, absolutely!" He asked how much I paid for it and I told him that, too. LOL!

When the owner saw me pick up my ball and put it back in my bag, I felt like everybody was looking at me like I was the bad guy.

Classic! LOL!

I he only knew that I was going to buy two new balls from him. LOL! The Energy and the Fast have not hit the street yet! LOL! Oh well...

The bottom line is this... Why are pro shop owners getting upset with customers who bring in balls to get them drilled? THEY MAKE MONEY EITHER WAY!! They get paid if you buy from them or just get a ball drilled from them!

Saving money is not a crime. Yet, there is no excuse for the act lying to a customer. I understand the point of supporting your local pro shop. However, how do they expect someone to patronize their business when they blatantly try to mislead them.

And no, there is nothing wrong with my ball. LOL!

Any thoughts?...

Peace!

Atochabsh · « **Reply #76 on:** June 08, 2009, 12:15:14 AM »

quote:
These also used to be exclusively supplied by the pro shop and there was no labor involved.

NO, every single ball selling internet site I've seen also sells bags. Most without shipping. And for about the price that I have to pay for them at the wholesale end.

Erin

Atochabsh · « **Reply #77 on:** June 08, 2009, 12:19:33 AM »

Sorry Mike, you are right, those products are also available via internet and in most cases without shipping. And we can't touch those prices either.

The only thing we can offer is our experience and the availability to have the item immediately or get it in a day or so. But stocking the hugh variety of items is difficult, yet there are (fortunately) many items that will proficiently fit the request of the customer.

Erin

Atochabsh · « **Reply #78 on:** June 08, 2009, 12:22:19 AM »

.

quote:
It would be like a Denny's owner crying about the grocery store down the street ruining his business.

Only if those folks all use a home hand drill to drill the holes in their internet purchased bowling balls. Most people don't have a drill press in their home much less the jigs and other equipment needed to properly weigh out and drill a ball.

Erin

laufaye · « **Reply #79 on:** June 08, 2009, 12:32:39 AM »

Erin,

I agree with you 100%, I have 2 shops, but its no point to convince these idiots, really getting old, they are on the other side, the are the customers which they think they are always right. This topic has been talked about forever, its not going to change, I am not happy about it, but trying to convince idiots is not going to help it....

Good luck and sell lots of balls in the coming seasons...

--------------------
Laufaye

Kid Jete · « **Reply #80 on:** June 08, 2009, 12:33:58 AM »

quote:
quote:
I went through it in the golf industry and came out just fine.

How much fitting does it take for a novice golfer to use a club "off the rack"?

Erin

About as much as a novice bowler grabbing a lane ball "off the rack".

Kid Jete · « **Reply #81 on:** June 08, 2009, 12:40:00 AM »

quote:
.
quote:
It would be like a Denny's owner crying about the grocery store down the street ruining his business.

Only if those folks all use a home hand drill to drill the holes in their internet purchased bowling balls. Most people don't have a drill press in their home much less the jigs and other equipment needed to properly weigh out and drill a ball.

Erin

Why would they have to drill the ball themselves? You just made the dumb comparions of an internet bought bowling ball at a pro shop to eggs at Denny's. Where the hell else would you buy eggs. You really don't make any sense at all and you stink at analogies, oh wait I think I already mentioned that a few times didn't I.

SleepOnIce · « **Reply #82 on:** June 08, 2009, 12:42:15 AM »

quote:
Sorry I got to this party late but it looks like we are getting some interesting perspectives from both sides of this issue.

The pro shop being discussed is Sports Plus/Carmen Don Pro Shop in Alexandria VA. I am the owner and have been for 22 years.

I overheard much of this conversation while the customer was in the shop, as did the distributor that was visiting. We discussed it briefly after the customer left. We both agreed that this is a delicate situation due too the anti-internet feelings throughout some of the pro shop industry. Every manufacturer can tell you horror stories about less than reputable pro shops intentionally misleading their customers by claiming that everything on the internet is junk being unloaded on suckers. There are also plenty of discussions on this board about pro shops abusing customers that bring in a ball from â€œoutside their shopâ€. Unfortunately many bowlers have been conditioned to expect the worst when they show up with an internet ball.

SP/CD Pro Shop does not share this philosophy. We welcome every customer and have no problem with customers purchasing their equipment from their seller of choice. If a pro shop has set their drill only charge at a level that accurately represents their technical knowledge and their contribution to the ultimate success of the product, where the ball came from should not be an issue.

The quality of the product should always be an issue whether the ball came from our shelf or some outside source. Storm is a very reputable company with a high level of integrity. Bill Crisman and his staff would not have it any other way. Storm would not intentionally try to pass off a ball with a defect as a first line ball. However, like every other company, one occasionally slips through their quality control. Bowling balls are manufactured and inspected by humans and humans occasionally make mistakes. Our shop, like many, has made a significant investment in a Determinator to help us identify this occasional problem which allows us to improve the quality of service to our customers.

When we find one of these mistakes, we feel an obligation to address the issue. Could be punch three holes, send the customer out the door, and hope the ball works? Sure we could but that would be a disservice to the customer and the manufacturer and we would not be doing our job weâ€™re being paid to do.

In this particular case, our driller was pretty busy that day and apparently did not recognize the level of concern this customer was feeling or he would not have made a cavalier comment like â€œI hope you didnâ€™t pay a lot for this ballâ€. Obviously the cost of this ball or where it came from had nothing to do with the issue but was simply normal pro shop banter between two individuals that had know each other for years and had interacted numerous times.

In my opinion, the drillerâ€™s apparent mistake was that he interacted with this individual on a level he felt appropriate based on his perception of the customerâ€™s technical knowledge and his comfort level with our shop. Perhaps he should have slowed down and explained things in more detail but then he probably would have been perceived as talking down to a technically knowledgeable bowler.

This ball driller is a highly skilled, IBPSIA certified, nationally recognized expert at what he does. He works in a pro shop that prides itself on its integrity and honesty. I have the utmost respect for this individual and trust him fully with my business. I can assure you there was no intent to mislead anyone.

I wonâ€™t turn this into a book by addressing each of the 17 points made by this writer but I would like to respond to the $60 charge versus the $50 posted price. The last time he was in he purchased a thumb slug, a $15 charge. This time he brought his own, a $10 installation charge. Nothing deceptive going on here.

We try and help every customer get the most out of their bowling equipment and bowling experience but obviously we canâ€™t make everyone happy. Sorry.

One final, unrelated comment. Bowl Expo is coming to Las Vegas the end of June. During the convention, our pro shop is being recognized as the IBPSIA Bowling Pro Shop of the Year. This prestigious award is voted on by our peers and some of the leading experts in the bowling industry. I would like to thank my staff, including the individual discussed here, for their collective effort in earning us this award.

Sweet post man. I doubt you'll get responded to by the OP though, until he can think up some more things that "happened".
--------------------
BLARGH
Rob Stone Supporters of America!

Kid Jete · « **Reply #83 on:** June 08, 2009, 12:46:32 AM »

quote:
Erin,

I agree with you 100%, I have 2 shops, but its no point to convince these idiots, really getting old, they are on the other side, the are the customers which they think they are always right. This topic has been talked about forever, its not going to change, I am not happy about it, but trying to convince idiots is not going to help it....

Good luck and sell lots of balls in the coming seasons...

--------------------
Laufaye

Yeah good idea to call customers idiots. When a guy brings in a ball he bought off the internet do you call him an idiot and kick him of the shop? Okay so you own two shops. Why can't a customer buy a ball from the internet? Why in gods name would you cry about drilling it? Do you always cry when people hand you 50 bucks for a half hour of your time? When people bring me their internet bought golf clubs to be reshafted or regripped I don't call them idiots and refuse service. I WISH I could regrip/reshaft a few sets of clubs a day, I wouldn't do anything else for the next 30 years. Hell I WISH they would just bring their own grips and shafts too so I could carry ZERO inventory and just charge for the service.

Edited on 6/8/2009 0:51 AM

laufaye · « **Reply #84 on:** June 08, 2009, 12:58:59 AM »

quote:
Quote
Erin,

I agree with you 100%, I have 2 shops, but its no point to convince these idiots, really getting old, they are on the other side, the are the customers which they think they are always right. This topic has been talked about forever, its not going to change, I am not happy about it, but trying to convince idiots is not going to help it....

Good luck and sell lots of balls in the coming seasons...

--------------------
Laufaye[/quote

Yeah good idea to call customers idiots. When a guy brings in a ball he bought off the internet do you call him an idiot and kick him of the shop? Okay so you own two shops. Why can't a customer buy a ball from the internet? Why in gods name would you cry about drilling it? Do you always cry when people hand you 50 bucks for a half hour of your time? When people bring me their internet bought golf clubs to be reshafted or regripped I don't call them idiots and refuse service. I WISH I could regrip/reshaft a few sets of clubs a day, I wouldn't do anything else for the next 30 years. Hell I WISH they would just bring their own grips and shafts too so I could carry ZERO inventory and just charge for the service.

Edited on 6/8/2009 0:51 AM

I am very happy to have customer bring in balls and I drill it for $50, I will not call them idiots, I love my customers, hence I am not crying or b!tching...

But I will be happier if they buy the balls from us...
--------------------
Laufaye

drifter106 · « **Reply #85 on:** June 08, 2009, 01:26:27 AM »

"Amazing" thread to say the least. Definitely 2 sides to this. Looking at it from a different perspective....what about the ball companies, the distributors? As with so much in our society it revolves around power and money... do you think they are going to stop selling to internet venues? Don't think so. Feces rolls down hill and in this case its the consumer who is getting the "blunt" from the pro shops because they didn't purchase their ball from them. The ball companies aren't going to stop internet sales just to make the pro shop guy happy. But yet the consumer is getting bashed (by some) because they look at the opportunities that the internet sites provide. But I have yet to hear anyone "bash" those that supply the internet sites. Aren't they the same people that supply the pro shops? With the advent of computers, technology and the internet this is something that society HAS to adjust to. Stop and think for a minute and you will realize that internet sales of goods and services is a very large part of our economy. I bowl with the guy that owns our local lanes and pro shop. He can't compete with the prices...he charges a little more for bringing in a ball and thats fine with us. Can't imagine him throwing a fit if he knew I bought my shoes from online and not renting his.
--------------------
What is common knowledge to some, is a revelation to others...

golfnutFL · « **Reply #86 on:** June 08, 2009, 01:31:45 AM »

Sure sounded like you were calling them idiots. I hope your customers read your posts and know who you are....and then they can buy ALL of their balls from the internet and you become a drilling service. Ultimately, all shops will become drilling shops, except for the uninformed consumer.

I get a good laugh at some of the pro shop guys here, preaching how important loyalty to their shop is, and then pushing whoever is offering them the buy 4 get 1 specials over the best match for the consumer. I've been around this business 30+ years. The majority of owners I've dealt with are out to make a buck (like any business owner) but too many here claim righteousness and customer devotion as their business model. That's crap, and anyone that's been around this business long enough knows it. Anyone that's owned ANY business knows it crap, business owners are in business to make money. Period. Is customer satisfaction important? Of course. Is maximizing your profits the reason for owning a business? I don't think think that question requires an answer.

Here's the problem for pro shop owners you are being squeezed by both sides of your business model, your suppliers and your demanders regard you as a necessary evil. The distributors love the volume pushed by the internet shops so you've lost pricing advantages. A growing volume of your consumers question your pricing policy and buy from internet shops. What does that leave you? Drilling services. Get used to it. Smaller sq. ft. shops with few supplies except those needed for drilling are the future. The rest of you guys just don't realize it yet.

quote:

I am very happy to have customer bring in balls and I drill it for $50, I will not call them idiots, I love my customers, hence I am not crying or b!tching...

But I will be happier if they buy the balls from us...
--------------------
Laufaye

laufaye · « **Reply #87 on:** June 08, 2009, 01:56:52 AM »

quote:
Sure sounded like you were calling them idiots. I hope your customers read your posts and know who you are....and then they can buy ALL of their balls from the internet and you become a drilling service. Ultimately, all shops will become drilling shops, except for the uninformed consumer.

I get a good laugh at some of the pro shop guys here, preaching how important loyalty to their shop is, and then pushing whoever is offering them the buy 4 get 1 specials over the best match for the consumer. I've been around this business 30+ years. The majority of owners I've dealt with are out to make a buck (like any business owner) but too many here claim righteousness and customer devotion as their business model. That's crap, and anyone that's been around this business long enough knows it. Anyone that's owned ANY business knows it crap, business owners are in business to make money. Period. Is customer satisfaction important? Of course. Is maximizing your profits the reason for owning a business? I don't think think that question requires an answer.

Here's the problem for pro shop owners you are being squeezed by both sides of your business model, your suppliers and your demanders regard you as a necessary evil. The distributors love the volume pushed by the internet shops so you've lost pricing advantages. A growing volume of your consumers question your pricing policy and buy from internet shops. What does that leave you? Drilling services. Get used to it. Smaller sq. ft. shops with few supplies except those needed for drilling are the future. The rest of you guys just don't realize it yet.

quote:

I am very happy to have customer bring in balls and I drill it for $50, I will not call them idiots, I love my customers, hence I am not crying or b!tching...

But I will be happier if they buy the balls from us...
--------------------
Laufaye

Sir, I am not calling my customer idiots, I am referring to those trying to teach me as a pro shop operator how to do the business...such as predicting the future of pro shop is just to drill balls...

I am done with this topic, if I offended you in anyways...sorry...
--------------------
Laufaye

DP3 · « **Reply #88 on:** June 08, 2009, 02:30:26 AM »

quote:
Anyone that's owned ANY business knows it crap, business owners are in business to make money. Period. Is customer satisfaction important? Of course. Is maximizing your profits the reason for owning a business? I don't think think that question requires an answer.

Here's the problem for pro shop owners you are being squeezed by both sides of your business model, your suppliers and your demanders regard you as a necessary evil. The distributors love the volume pushed by the internet shops so you've lost pricing advantages. A growing volume of your consumers question your pricing policy and buy from internet shops. What does that leave you? Drilling services. Get used to it. Smaller sq. ft. shops with few supplies except those needed for drilling are the future. The rest of you guys just don't realize it yet.

I agree with some of this. What the majority fail to realize is that in the next 2-5 years, your favorite ball driller might not be around. It's happening everywhere. And to the guys claiming "just take the $50 for the blank drill and shut up", well most shops are doing that, but you fail to realize that most shops aren't drilling 10 balls a day. 1-3 for most small places if you're lucky. Count in the rest of your stock, which if you individualize accessories, grips, polishes, bags, shoes, your actual bowling ball on hand count is around 10% of your entire store inventory. A pro shop business will not and cannot survive on ball sales and blank drills alone unless they are one of the super shops doing unbelievable volume.

What is sadly going to happen in the future is the good guys are going to wisen up and leave the sinking ship because they're going broke and losing patience trying to stay in a business they gave 20 years to. This will leave the majority of your only drillers to be your basement guys with crappy equipment or the mechanic in the closet at your local center with sub-standard knowledge in charge of giving you a reaction. This will keep the bigger guys in business, but if you're not in a huge association and metropolitan area, all of those big guys will be too far and few in between. In turn, people will buy less equipment because they don't want to have to drive 2 hrs to the only guy with a clue and those slowdown in overall sales will leave the super shops with piles and piles of "out-dated 12 month old balls" that they can't move leaving them sitting on dead money.

Saving money is not a crime, especially in these hard times. I don't blame anyone for doing what you have to do. But the constant devaluing of good pro shop service and the lack of respect and appreciation of the guys good at their craft is going to start the trickle effect that is going to kill the industry. I shouldn't really say "going to start" because everywhere it's already happening and it's really a shame.

Posts like the ones from the original poster and some of the fabricated tales I've heard in my time in the industry really puts the good guys in a no win situation. If you try to help, you're a crook for not giving someone what they want. Then if you give someone exactly what they want, and it rolls like complete crap, then it's the "pro shop guy" that can't drill and made the ball roll like garbage. Yet on the other hand if the ball rolls great and the bowler shoots lights out with it, it's never the "pro shop guy" that made them look good by giving them a great layout and matchup for what they bowl on, it's the bowler's "pure skill" and the company that made "the greatest ball ever" that get all of the credit.

Poor pro shop guy is chop liver in every single scenario.

--------------------
-DJ Marshall
Are you hiring? ....Have skills, will travel

Smash49 · « **Reply #89 on:** June 08, 2009, 02:10:58 PM »

This topic keeps going and going every month. If all pro shops charged you $100 to drill a bowling ball from the outside or say No I will not drill outside equipment this matter would be solved. People would scream about it but this would put a stop to the internet ball situation. The answer would be ok if you do not like the price do it yourself. I would not tell customers that but it is what this matter is coming to. Distributors are giving the internet dealers the advantage and the only way to stop it is to take it away. This forum has argued for years over how pro shops make money to the point of nonsense. Erin has it right. Restaurants will not let you bring in outside stuff to them. Bowling centers do not allow outside food. I know in the past I have been for drilling outside equipment at the same price as my normal inventory. Online dealers are now selling everything to the consumer that a pro shop can make money on. If someone comes in with grips and slugs, a ball and everything else there is no way you can drill the ball for the same price as if someone bought everything from you. Where we are in the country people think you are robbing them blind if you charge more than $35 to drill a ball. Many consumers cannot tell you if their bowling ball is drilled correctly or not. There are a ton of really bad ball drillers that have no clue what they are doing. I'm sure many of the internet customers will seek out these people to get their equipment done because the cost is lower. I'll buy stock in Nu-Skin.

Smash49
--------------------
Smash49

Slick, tacky, wood or synthetic it does not matter your slide is correct with SLSM Designs Bowlers Slide Sock. The Finest Slide Sock on the Planet!!!
www.bowlersslidesock.com
Striking Cat Bowling Pro Shop, Duncan Oklahoma! IBPSIA Certified Technician
www.strikingcatbowling.com

golfnutFL · « **Reply #90 on:** June 08, 2009, 02:59:27 PM »

Yes, the problem would be solved, just not the way you envision it. The online shops would steal all of your drilling as well as your ball sales. You don't think that the online shops would be happy to drill up the ball?

My pro shop charges me $45 to drill a ball. Let's say I buy a Rogue Cell from Buddies. $129.99 - $5 coupon = $125. I supply my own grip slugs ($10). So my total from my shop is $180.

Let's say I buy the ball from Buddies and let Buddies drill it. Buddies charges $50--WITH grips and slug. So, I could get the ball shipped to my house ready to go for $175. I like my pro shop guy so $5 is no big deal. However if he increased his price by $55, guess who would be drilling my equipment? That's right...Buddies.

Not only is Buddies an internet seller but they are also a successful brick and mortar shop located in Fairfield, Connecticut. They should be the business model for the future success of pro shops. Go ahead and charge $100 to drill or refuse to drill. Your closing will just be sooner rather than later.

Pro shops need to adapt to the internet era or they will be replaced by a more efficient model.

quote:
This topic keeps going and going every month. If all pro shops charged you $100 to drill a bowling ball from the outside or say No I will not drill outside equipment this matter would be solved. People would scream about it but this would put a stop to the internet ball situation. The answer would be ok if you do not like the price do it yourself. I would not tell customers that but it is what this matter is coming to. Distributors are giving the internet dealers the advantage and the only way to stop it is to take it away. This forum has argued for years over how pro shops make money to the point of nonsense. Erin has it right. Restaurants will not let you bring in outside stuff to them. Bowling centers do not allow outside food. I know in the past I have been for drilling outside equipment at the same price as my normal inventory. Online dealers are now selling everything to the consumer that a pro shop can make money on. If someone comes in with grips and slugs, a ball and everything else there is no way you can drill the ball for the same price as if someone bought everything from you. Where we are in the country people think you are robbing them blind if you charge more than $35 to drill a ball. Many consumers cannot tell you if their bowling ball is drilled correctly or not. There are a ton of really bad ball drillers that have no clue what they are doing. I'm sure many of the internet customers will seek out these people to get their equipment done because the cost is lower. I'll buy stock in Nu-Skin.

Smash49
--------------------
Smash49

Slick, tacky, wood or synthetic it does not matter your slide is correct with SLSM Designs Bowlers Slide Sock. The Finest Slide Sock on the Planet!!!
www.bowlersslidesock.com
Striking Cat Bowling Pro Shop, Duncan Oklahoma! IBPSIA Certified Technician
www.strikingcatbowling.com

Author Topic: Untruthful pro shop. They lied to me yesterday... (Read 12373 times)

DCNetBoy

Untruthful pro shop. They lied to me yesterday...

Atochabsh

Re: Untruthful pro shop. They lied to me yesterday...

Atochabsh

Re: Untruthful pro shop. They lied to me yesterday...

Atochabsh

Re: Untruthful pro shop. They lied to me yesterday...

laufaye

Re: Untruthful pro shop. They lied to me yesterday...

Kid Jete

Re: Untruthful pro shop. They lied to me yesterday...

Kid Jete

Re: Untruthful pro shop. They lied to me yesterday...

SleepOnIce

Re: Untruthful pro shop. They lied to me yesterday...

Kid Jete

Re: Untruthful pro shop. They lied to me yesterday...

laufaye

Re: Untruthful pro shop. They lied to me yesterday...

drifter106

Re: Untruthful pro shop. They lied to me yesterday...

golfnutFL

Re: Untruthful pro shop. They lied to me yesterday...

laufaye

Re: Untruthful pro shop. They lied to me yesterday...

DP3

Re: Untruthful pro shop. They lied to me yesterday...

Smash49

Re: Untruthful pro shop. They lied to me yesterday...

golfnutFL

Re: Untruthful pro shop. They lied to me yesterday...