Post by: DCNetBoy on June 04, 2009, 10:13:05 AM
Let me tell you all about. Then, I would like to get some feedback on what others think.I brought a ball into the shop to be drilled. After patiently waiting to meet with the most experienced driller in the shop, I greet him, shake his hand and then give him the ball. He takes the ball and then proceeds to walk back to the drilling area. (Keep in mind that I had brought in a ball a few weeks before and had it drilled with no issues.)
As he is walking to the drill, he states that he might have to charge me $10 more than what he charged me for drilling the first ball. When he gets to the drill, he immediately puts the ball on a Determinator. After about 20 seconds or so, I hear him say... "I hope you didn't pay a lot for this ball..."
At that moment, I knew there was going to be a problem. So I gave him a look as if I didn't hear him. He then repeated what he said.
He then goes on to try to say that my brand new Virtual Gravity is not spinning properly and that he can not find the true mass bias area on the ball. (We all know that Storm and every other company marks the mass bias on their asymmetrical balls before they leave the factory.)
So I say, "Oh really? How often does something like this occur?" He does not reply. He then proceeds to pull out one of his VG's that he had in stock and puts that on the machine. Of course, you all know that his ball spun properly.
When he spun my ball again, I noticed how loudly it was spinning because it was "wobbling"! When he spun his, it was quiet. LOL!Now, before each spin on the machine, he clicks a switch in the back of the machine/table. Can you guess what that switch might have done?!
He goes on to try explain how many Ebonite and RotoGrip balls had the same issue. He then tries to explain how the ball was spinning properly on one axis, but not the other. (Duh! It can't it's wobbling all over the place!) He then says that he might have trouble drilling my ball, but starts to look for another one of his VG's after I told him that my ball was a 14lb ball.
While he is looking for another ball, I pick up my ball and proceed to tell him that "I will ship that ball back" and that he should not worry about drilling my ball. He appeared a little shocked that I didn't want to get anything drilled. From that point on, everything was just as uncomfortable as I have ever felt in a pro shop. I knew he was lying. I didn't want to challenge him on it because his boss, the owner of the shop, was nearby dealing with a supply distributor. It would have looked bad if I called him out on an outright lie right in front of his boss. So, I just walked.
As I am trying to leave, he asked me if I bought the ball from the internet. LOL! I said... "Oh, absolutely!" He asked how much I paid for it and I told him that, too. LOL!
When the owner saw me pick up my ball and put it back in my bag, I felt like everybody was looking at me like I was the bad guy.
Classic! LOL!I he only knew that I was going to buy two new balls from him. LOL! The Energy and the Fast have not hit the street yet! LOL! Oh well...
The bottom line is this... Why are pro shop owners getting upset with customers who bring in balls to get them drilled? THEY MAKE MONEY EITHER WAY!! They get paid if you buy from them or just get a ball drilled from them!
Saving money is not a crime. Yet, there is no excuse for the act lying to a customer. I understand the point of supporting your local pro shop. However, how do they expect someone to patronize their business when they blatantly try to mislead them.
And no, there is nothing wrong with my ball. LOL!
Any thoughts?...
Peace!
Post by: mrbowlingnut on June 04, 2009, 06:22:29 PM
Post by: sdbowler on June 04, 2009, 06:25:12 PM
--------------------
Kyle
Post by: mrbowlingnut on June 04, 2009, 06:29:28 PM
I use the K & K shop only but many friends are getting killer deals from David Haynes.
Edited on 6/4/2009 6:45 PM
Post by: DCNetBoy on June 04, 2009, 06:31:18 PM
Peace!
Post by: Raven829 on June 04, 2009, 06:34:47 PM
Don
--------------------
"You cannot change the stripes of a leopard."
~Emmitt Smith
Post by: T_Bone on June 04, 2009, 06:37:28 PM
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Todd
Post by: Mike Austin on June 04, 2009, 07:11:17 PM
quote:
sdbowler, I hear what your saying and I respect your comment but why would a pro shop pay more for a ball than anybody can get it from the internet. Is the reason because the ball is guaranteed? Seems like the ball companies would be able to make more sales with pro shops if the prices were the same as the internet and still guaranteed. This would even out the brick and mortor sales vs internet. Then the pro shops would be able to make more volume sales as well and with drilling, make profit. It seems like a very simple idea, that is why I am sure it doesnt work! LOL. Anyway, just wondering . Thanks.
--------------------
Todd
Todd,
The bowling ball companies generally don't sell to pro shops. The ball companies sell to distributors. The distributors sell to pro shops. The distributors also sell to internet sites. Because many times the internet sites do higher volume, the distributors sell to them at a lower price than they will to a pro shop. It almost doesn't matter how much volume the pro shop does, the shops have a hard time getting the cheaper prices that the internet sites receive.
DCNetBoy,
If the shop guy was not lying, you MAY be getting a not so good ball. We don't know what was actually going on. How did you know nothing is wrong with your ball? Did you get it checked out at the other shop before or after the mentioned shop? If it was after, you did not know at that time. If it was before, why didn't you get it drilled at the 1st checking shop? If you are so sure that you were right and had caught them in a lie, then you had/have every right in calling them out on it. Why schlep out of the shop with "everyone looking at you", maybe because they all knew and trusted the shop owner, you weren't right, had no proof, and were trying to make them look bad??? Why all the sarcastic LOL??? What really is the axe you are trying to grind?
Saving money is not a crime, you are correct. It is also not a crime for pro shops to make money. Shops DO make money when they drill your balls for you. Shops make MORE money when you buy the ball from them. Pro shops are supposed to be a business, to make money, as much money as the market will bear. The shop might have been doing you a favor putting the ball on their Determinator for free. You didn't even mention what the extra $10 fee was for??? The shop could have said nothing, took your money, your ball rolled like crap, and you are pissed off, now who's the bad guy? The probably should have drilled the ball with a disclaimer: we think there could be something wrong with your ball, and then took your money. The pro shop in question is "well known in your area" for a reason.
I'm all about good customer service and being honest. I went the extra mile every chance I got. BUT, I had to be paid for that. Service has a price. Great service has a higher price.
Good luck to ya!
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THIS SPACE FOR RENT
Post by: laufaye on June 04, 2009, 07:29:15 PM
quote:quote:
sdbowler, I hear what your saying and I respect your comment but why would a pro shop pay more for a ball than anybody can get it from the internet. Is the reason because the ball is guaranteed? Seems like the ball companies would be able to make more sales with pro shops if the prices were the same as the internet and still guaranteed. This would even out the brick and mortor sales vs internet. Then the pro shops would be able to make more volume sales as well and with drilling, make profit. It seems like a very simple idea, that is why I am sure it doesnt work! LOL. Anyway, just wondering . Thanks.
--------------------
Todd
Todd,
The bowling ball companies generally don't sell to pro shops. The ball companies sell to distributors. The distributors sell to pro shops. The distributors also sell to internet sites. Because many times the internet sites do higher volume, the distributors sell to them at a lower price than they will to a pro shop. It almost doesn't matter how much volume the pro shop does, the shops have a hard time getting the cheaper prices that the internet sites receive.
DCNetBoy,
If the shop guy was not lying, you MAY be getting a not so good ball. We don't know what was actually going on. How did you know nothing is wrong with your ball? Did you get it checked out at the other shop before or after the mentioned shop? If it was after, you did not know at that time. If it was before, why didn't you get it drilled at the 1st checking shop? If you are so sure that you were right and had caught them in a lie, then you had/have every right in calling them out on it. Why schlep out of the shop with "everyone looking at you", maybe because they all knew and trusted the shop owner, you weren't right, had no proof, and were trying to make them look bad??? Why all the sarcastic LOL??? What really is the axe you are trying to grind?
Saving money is not a crime, you are correct. It is also not a crime for pro shops to make money. Shops DO make money when they drill your balls for you. Shops make MORE money when you buy the ball from them. Pro shops are supposed to be a business, to make money, as much money as the market will bear. The shop might have been doing you a favor putting the ball on their Determinator for free. You didn't even mention what the extra $10 fee was for??? The shop could have said nothing, took your money, your ball rolled like crap, and you are pissed off, now who's the bad guy? The probably should have drilled the ball with a disclaimer: we think there could be something wrong with your ball, and then took your money. The pro shop in question is "well known in your area" for a reason.
I'm all about good customer service and being honest. I went the extra mile every chance I got. BUT, I had to be paid for that. Service has a price. Great service has a higher price.
Good luck to ya!
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THIS SPACE FOR RENT
+1
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Laufaye
Post by: Gazoo on June 04, 2009, 08:13:57 PM
We also know they mismark them from time to time.
2: "He then says that he might have trouble drilling my ball"
How is this "blatantly trying to mislead" you?
3: "The bottom line is this... Why are pro shop owners getting upset with customers who bring in balls to get them drilled? THEY MAKE MONEY EITHER WAY!! They get paid if you buy from them or just get a ball drilled from them!"
When did he refuse to not drill the ball because it was not purchased in the store?
Remember, when you assume, you make an Arse of U and ME.
--------------------
"I don't want to be remembered, I want to be forgotten"
Edited on 6/4/2009 8:16 PM
Edited on 6/4/2009 8:17 PM
Post by: BrunsNick on June 04, 2009, 08:14:49 PM
Whatever though, you already burned a bridge there.
--------------------
Nick Smith ... A.K.A. BrunsNick
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-09
http://www.BrunsNick.com
http://www.BigBapparel.com
http://www.OnTheBallBowling.com
Use coupon code 1f59492 and save 15%
Post by: Atochabsh on June 04, 2009, 08:22:12 PM
quote:
(We all know that Storm and every other company marks the mass bias on their asymmetrical balls before they leave the factory
Just because they mark it doesn't mean its in the correct spot. Storm is usually pretty good, but you have to weigh all Brunswicks. Happens all the time. Heck I've seen balls with two cgs punched in them. Now which one do you use?
When a ball has screwy weights and stats it takes longer for the pro shop to weigh it out, drill, re weigh, to make sure that the ball ends up being legal. Plus I'm sure you didn't pay him anything for the time and use of the machinery that he had to purchase to determine that your ball was mis marked. So he just gave away that time to you....free.
I think he was being very honest with you up front by telling you that there might be issues with this ball. Not his fault you bought a "deal" somewhere else. He's probably a lot like us, we over look every ball purchased and brought in for sale to make sure it is a good pin to cg and mass bias stats. So that they are the most versital to drill for anyone walking into the shop. And for that we deserve to earn a tiny bit of profit off that ball. But when internet buyers think they get deals because the ball on the net is $20 cheaper, we really can't have a lot of sympathy when you get a "lemon". Sure we make the money off the drilling, grips and maybe slug, but we'd get that anyway whether we stocked the ball or it was brought in. But it does cost us money to stock that ball on the wall and have it instantly available for purchase.
Send the ball back. It will cost you shipping and restocking fee and time not using your anticipated ball. Of course they might send you another screwy ball, who knows. Just because you request a pin,cg,mass bias placement doesn't always mean you get it. But you got it cheaper.
Erin
Post by: on June 04, 2009, 09:19:08 PM
We drill plenty of balls bought online, and without a gripe, too. These balls cost us nothing to inventory and warranty. You will get a professional fit and you'll be happy. Just don't expect to have your ball put in the front of the line to get drilled before those purchased through us. Those will always have priority.
I hope you find a satisfactory resolution to your issue, but we here will never know if you were right or the pro shop.
--------------------
Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah
Brunswick Pro Shop Staff
www.brunswickbowling.com
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
Post by: golfnutFL on June 04, 2009, 10:52:17 PM
quote:
Everyone wants their pro shop to stay in business, and continue to drill their balls great, yet they don't want to help him stay in business by purchasing through him. You see the irony?
We drill plenty of balls bought online, and without a gripe, too. These balls cost us nothing to inventory and warranty. You will get a professional fit and you'll be happy. Just don't expect to have your ball put in the front of the line to get drilled before those purchased through us. Those will always have priority.
I hope you find a satisfactory resolution to your issue, but we here will never know if you were right or the pro shop.
--------------------
Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah
Brunswick Pro Shop Staff
www.brunswickbowling.com
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
Post by: DP3 on June 04, 2009, 11:01:58 PM
Edited on 6/4/2009 11:08 PM
Post by: DP3 on June 04, 2009, 11:08:12 PM
quote:
Quick question.....I bring you 50-60 balls per year to drill for me for the past 3-4 years....do you still put me in the back of the line?
If there are others in front of you on the same day, certainly.
--------------------
-DJ Marshall
8 years experience Sales Manager
5 years experience Pro Shop Operator
Are you hiring? ....Have skills, will travel
Post by: golfnutFL on June 04, 2009, 11:30:46 PM
Put my profits over someone that buys a ball every three years from you? Are you sure you'd want to do that? I guess if you're the only shop for miles around you can "stick" it to me for "only" bringing you tons of business. Otherwise, I'd expect top priority...every time I walk in carrying four or five balls to be drilled. Luckily, I have options. Better still, my shop does give me top priority. One previous shop had your state of mind...his loss.
quote:quote:
Quick question.....I bring you 50-60 balls per year to drill for me for the past 3-4 years....do you still put me in the back of the line?
If there are others in front of you on the same day, certainly.
--------------------
-DJ Marshall
8 years experience Sales Manager
5 years experience Pro Shop Operator
Are you hiring? ....Have skills, will travel
Post by: Mike Austin on June 04, 2009, 11:37:36 PM
quote:
Quick question.....I bring you 50-60 balls per year to drill for me for the past 3-4 years....do you still put me in the back of the line?quote:
Everyone wants their pro shop to stay in business, and continue to drill their balls great, yet they don't want to help him stay in business by purchasing through him. You see the irony?
We drill plenty of balls bought online, and without a gripe, too. These balls cost us nothing to inventory and warranty. You will get a professional fit and you'll be happy. Just don't expect to have your ball put in the front of the line to get drilled before those purchased through us. Those will always have priority.
I hope you find a satisfactory resolution to your issue, but we here will never know if you were right or the pro shop.
--------------------
Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah
Brunswick Pro Shop Staff
www.brunswickbowling.com
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
Hey Nut,
That doesn't happen very often, there aren't many that drill 50-60 a year. I bet I make an exception for someone like that though, if I had such a person. If they paid cash, hmmmm....
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THIS SPACE FOR RENT
Post by: golfnutFL on June 04, 2009, 11:45:18 PM
That's a true number that I drill up for my wife and myself (mostly me!!)
The exception IS made, and I ALWAYS pay cash.
I think that my pro shop guy is happy to make the exception, he jokingly refers to me as SW FL's official ball tester.
quote:
Hey Nut,
That doesn't happen very often, there aren't many that drill 50-60 a year. I bet I make an exception for someone like that though, if I had such a person. If they paid cash, hmmmm....
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THIS SPACE FOR RENT
Post by: Atochabsh on June 05, 2009, 12:52:26 AM
"That's fine. I'll give you the names of every one ahead of you. You call them and if they all say its OK for you jump inline then I'll do your work first".
Erin
Post by: jhutch769 on June 05, 2009, 01:57:59 AM
The other companies mark a spot 6 3/4 " from Pin through CG..
Post by: hammermike2000 on June 05, 2009, 02:10:31 AM
quote:
MoRich, as far as I know, is the only company that factory spins a ball and marks an accurate PSA (MB)
The other companies mark a spot 6 3/4 " from Pin through CG..
Wow lol. How ignorant could you be? Many....MANY balls from all companies have MB markings that are not in line, or close to being in line, with the pin/cg line.
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The Right Approach Pro Shop, Charlotte, NC
Post by: dizzyfugu on June 05, 2009, 02:54:32 AM
quote:
What if he was not lying??? then you have internet junk which is really funny to me.
Second that. For me it is O.k. for a pro shop to charge a bit more for balls that were bought somewhere else.
To me, the story sounds plausible. Even when the MB is amrked on a ball, it does not mean that the PSA is actually in that place. If a pin is used, it could have been misplaced od moved during production, and AFAIK, Storm just marks the MB with engravings, so this location is even more doubtful. IMO, good that the ball wasa actually spun to make sure if anything is kosher.
If you still have the ball, you might check the PSA at another pro shop, just to be sure, but you might just have a junk ball... Nothing to laugh about so much.
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DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
Confused by bowling? Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Post by: sdbowler on June 05, 2009, 04:36:38 AM
quote:
sdbowler, I hear what your saying and I respect your comment but why would a pro shop pay more for a ball than anybody can get it from the internet. Is the reason because the ball is guaranteed? Seems like the ball companies would be able to make more sales with pro shops if the prices were the same as the internet and still guaranteed. This would even out the brick and mortor sales vs internet. Then the pro shops would be able to make more volume sales as well and with drilling, make profit. It seems like a very simple idea, that is why I am sure it doesnt work! LOL. Anyway, just wondering . Thanks.
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Todd
Todd this happens a lot. As Mike has already stated the ball companies will sell to distributors. Who they then sell to pro shops or online sites. I have seen this happen a lot both when I was managing a center and just watching prices at places I bowl and on the web. If you don't believe me that this happens just watch prices on Buddies or any other site and then check your local shop and see what you notice.
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Kyle
Post by: Neptune66 on June 05, 2009, 06:58:44 AM
I want my local pro shop to stay in business so they will be there for me when I have an issue with a ball----any ball. That issue could even be a ball bought elsewhere that was not drilled properly or to my liking.
An occasional internet ball purchase makes sense, but if I buy the majority of them over the internet, depriving the pro shop of their income, and everyone else does that too, how long will that pro shop b able to stay viable and in business?
And then....where do I go to get my ball plugged and redrilled, if for example, I want to try a different layout? Do you think I'll want to send my older ball to Buddy's or Bowler's Paradise for that, and wait for it to come back, and MAYBE it will be good and maybe not? ---That's presuming they even offered that service.
Post by: Big Columbia on June 05, 2009, 08:01:32 AM
Post by: bowlerdawg on June 05, 2009, 08:23:33 AM
pro shops do this for a living, and anybody worth their salt wan't to do the best job for you they can, and sometimes when you bring in a ball from an outside source they want to verify it for themselves, BUT in the same vein they might try to TEACH you a lesson, and give you grief for daring to bring in a ball you bought somewhere else.
Most shops have come to grips w/ the internet, and it's not usually an issue, and they just lay it out and punch it for you, but they aren't doing any favors and they make good money doing this.
Some shops still hate the internet customer
you had several options as to how to handle this situation, in retrospect , you did not burn a bridge, because they will always accept your money.
until you get your own drill press and other equipment, then you are at others mercy.
They may have been telling the truth, but you already had it made out in your mind how the transaction was going to go down, and the actual scenario did not meet up to your expectations, therefore you were dissapointed.
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I'm your huckleberry
Post by: rackattack on June 05, 2009, 09:06:54 AM
1) Can a determinator machine be manulipated to give a true read on one ball and a false read on another?
2) How are these online sellers able to get all these bad and mismarked balls?
Are the manufacures calling them with prices on mismarked balls that will not be marked as blems to be pushed off on the public as first runs?
3) Are online sellers refusing to accept returns on mismarked balls when they sell them as first quality?
4) Are all mismarked balls bad and undrillable?
5) Is a competent driller able to find the correct cg and mb on a mismaked ball?
If so,how much more of his time will this take?
Should not this be part of the drilling process reguardless of the ball's source?
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It's all about the X
Post by: on June 05, 2009, 09:09:08 AM
To answer your previous question, we try our best to keep turnaround as fast as possible. Sometimes the customer doesn't realize there are 10 balls waiting to be drilled that day BEFORE yours came in. He thinks it takes 5 minutes to put 3 holes in the ball and should cost $20 max.
We have a certain few guys who, like you, drill LOTS of balls. We are happy to take good care of you, but you also need to understand that we have many customers, not just one.
We drill for 3 Storm staffers, 2 Roto Grip staffers, 1 Columbia staffer and me with Brunswick. That's a good amount of balls for these guys, but these guys wait in line just like everyone else.
So, we don't complain if someone buys online, it's part of the business nowadays. Just be realistic from your end, and if we ask you to come pick them up tomorrow, it's not because we're trying to punish you for buying elsewhere, it's that we tend to be extremely busy from September through April.
--------------------
Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah
Brunswick Pro Shop Staff
www.brunswickbowling.com
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
Edited on 6/5/2009 9:10 AM
Post by: DP3 on June 05, 2009, 09:20:51 AM
quote:
Wow...how many individual customers do you have that generate $3,000 profit for you per year? (and $10-$12,000 over the past 3-4 years?) Not sales, profit?? I seriously doubt, or at least I'd be really surprised, that you have many, if any at all.
Put my profits over someone that buys a ball every three years from you? Are you sure you'd want to do that? I guess if you're the only shop for miles around you can "stick" it to me for "only" bringing you tons of business. Otherwise, I'd expect top priority...every time I walk in carrying four or five balls to be drilled. Luckily, I have options. Better still, my shop does give me top priority. One previous shop had your state of mind...his loss.QuoteQuoteQuick question.....I bring you 50-60 balls per year to drill for me for the past 3-4 years....do you still put me in the back of the line?
Lets see, in the past 5 years I've been operating a pro shop I've had at least 10 bowlers who have brought in 50+ balls a year in for me to drill. The most I have ever drilled for one person in a 12 month span was 117 blanks, with only about a dozen of those bought from inside of my shop. Out of those ten customers, none of them were as much of a pompous jerk to think that their money and time was more important than the walk ins who spent their hard earned money and time as well to get some equipment done on the same day. If my clients have a big job to do, they will call me in advance to schedule time enough for me to put aside to handle them and one of the other workers can handle the walk ins.
Just because you purchase alot of balls doesn't mean others should be compromised because of you when they were there first. I went to the same starbucks for coffee every morning for 18 months straight of work. On days the line was at the door I didn't expect them to usher me to the front because I felt like my money and business was better than everyone elses. A pro shop should be respected as any other retail/service outlet. First come, first serve, appointments made in advance.
--------------------
-DJ Marshall
8 years experience Sales Manager
5 years experience Pro Shop Operator
Are you hiring? ....Have skills, will travel
Post by: knnydukes on June 05, 2009, 10:23:15 AM
You are absolutely correct. My money is not more valuable than the next customers money. Whether I am spending $25.00 to buy a new bowling glove or spending $250.00 to buy a new ball and bag, each customer desrves to be given the best service possible, IN THE ORDER IN WHICH THEY WALKED INTO YOUR SHOP!!!
The easiest way to lose a customers business, is to be helping a customer, then
"quit" helping that person to go " fix or drill" something up for a regular, putting the new customer on hold. Every customer deserves your best service,
without regard to how much money they are spending. We have two pro shops in town, I personally drive an hour and fifteen minutes to a pro shop out of state,simply because of customer service. AND I ALWAYS make an appointment so
that when I get there I receive my pro shop guy's undivided attention. KEN
Post by: cheech on June 05, 2009, 11:09:44 AM
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HG:300x2(SR300 both)
HS:792(SR300)
2004 NYSPHSAA team champions
2007 NYSPHSAA individual high game(300) and series(1411-6 games)
sacred heart university bowling, frosh.
greatest accomplishment:shooting 603 and not shooting one 200 game(130,173,300)...lol
balls for sale in my profile
p.s. go leftys
Post by: DanH78 on June 05, 2009, 11:30:44 AM
quote:
Oh, the ball was checked out on another machine at a different pro shop! LOL!
Peace!
Did no one read this part? You guys that are criticizing him for "knowing more than the pro shop" and "burning bridges" haven't bothered to see that he was right. The blantant misleading comes from the shop trying to make his internet ball look bad in order to sell him the same ball out of his inventory.
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It IS next year!
Post by: NoseofRI on June 05, 2009, 11:43:05 AM
quote:quote:
Wow...how many individual customers do you have that generate $3,000 profit for you per year? (and $10-$12,000 over the past 3-4 years?) Not sales, profit?? I seriously doubt, or at least I'd be really surprised, that you have many, if any at all.
Put my profits over someone that buys a ball every three years from you? Are you sure you'd want to do that? I guess if you're the only shop for miles around you can "stick" it to me for "only" bringing you tons of business. Otherwise, I'd expect top priority...every time I walk in carrying four or five balls to be drilled. Luckily, I have options. Better still, my shop does give me top priority. One previous shop had your state of mind...his loss.QuoteQuoteQuick question.....I bring you 50-60 balls per year to drill for me for the past 3-4 years....do you still put me in the back of the line?
Lets see, in the past 5 years I've been operating a pro shop I've had at least 10 bowlers who have brought in 50+ balls a year in for me to drill. The most I have ever drilled for one person in a 12 month span was 117 blanks, with only about a dozen of those bought from inside of my shop. Out of those ten customers, none of them were as much of a pompous jerk to think that their money and time was more important than the walk ins who spent their hard earned money and time as well to get some equipment done on the same day. If my clients have a big job to do, they will call me in advance to schedule time enough for me to put aside to handle them and one of the other workers can handle the walk ins.
Just because you purchase alot of balls doesn't mean others should be compromised because of you when they were there first. I went to the same starbucks for coffee every morning for 18 months straight of work. On days the line was at the door I didn't expect them to usher me to the front because I felt like my money and business was better than everyone elses. A pro shop should be respected as any other retail/service outlet. First come, first serve, appointments made in advance.
--------------------
-DJ Marshall
8 years experience Sales Manager
5 years experience Pro Shop Operator
Are you hiring? ....Have skills, will travel
Calling ahead = Front of Line for appointment.
Walking in with 10 others already throwing money around = We'll get to you when its your turn, should have called ahead.
Post by: Mike Austin on June 05, 2009, 11:44:23 AM
quote:
the one thing that sucks about proshops disliking outside balls is the kids in college. there is a collegiate pricing program that you purchase balls straight from the manufacture and you get them at about 90-100 bucks off the retail price (like 104 for high performance and 92 for benchmark type stuff) then you go to the proshop and they act like you went online to get it. i still end up saving like 50 each ball but at least the shop i go to he makes me feel like im cutting him down cuz i got it through the collegiate program
--------------------
HG:300x2(SR300 both)
HS:792(SR300)
2004 NYSPHSAA team champions
2007 NYSPHSAA individual high game(300) and series(1411-6 games)
sacred heart university bowling, frosh.
greatest accomplishment:shooting 603 and not shooting one 200 game(130,173,300)...lol
balls for sale in my profile
p.s. go leftys
I drilled balls for the Texas Southern Lady Tigers program, NCAA program. I usually gave them a deal, I liked the girls, they were soooo thankful for any little thing. The guy running the program though was a micro managing moron, didn't know anything about bowling. They did well in spite of him. They did usually plan ahead, so time was not really an issue.
I drilled balls for the University of Houston bowlers. I got a list of who was in the program and drilled their balls for $25. They brought balls, grips, slugs, everything. Those kids were very grateful too.
Not all pro shops dislike college bowlers. Some kids try to take advantage of the system though. Some programs can get just about unlimited amounts of equipment at a very low price, about what distributors pay. Some kids then take these balls and sell them to anyone they can find for dirt. I have seen it. Flooding balls into the local area, it's just the principle of the matter.
Like was mentioned earlier, most pro shops don't mind internet or blank balls being brought in. I had ala carte pricing, so drilling was added on and was the same price whether you bought the ball from me or not.
My customers knew I was busy year round, knew that I worked my A%% off, and the huge majority of the time didn't mind waiting. (There was a time that I was about 5-7 days turn around on getting a ball drilled for about a month time. Just had pro am balls, equipment league balls, state tournament in my center, AND normal business all at the same time. Pulled some all nighters in there.
I notice DC has not come back on and answered any of the questions posed to him.
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THIS SPACE FOR RENT
Post by: Mike Austin on June 05, 2009, 11:49:17 AM
quote:quote:
Oh, the ball was checked out on another machine at a different pro shop! LOL!
Peace!
Did no one read this part? You guys that are criticizing him for "knowing more than the pro shop" and "burning bridges" haven't bothered to see that he was right. The blantant misleading comes from the shop trying to make his internet ball look bad in order to sell him the same ball out of his inventory.
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It IS next year!
Yes, Dan, I did catch this. Please reread my first post. When did he get it "checked out" by the other shop, before or after the shop in question? We don't know? If he "knew" the ball was good before, why didn't he call them on it? Why didn't he get it drilled by the supposed "checking" pro shop? If he had it checked out after he was at the mentioned shop, then HE DID NOT KNOW AT THE TIME that shop was juking him, which is what I suspect happened and that is why DCNet did not call them on it, he had no proof.
Hmmm????
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THIS SPACE FOR RENT
Post by: Stan on June 05, 2009, 01:49:00 PM
Did the pro shop tell you what was wrong with the ball and why he could not drill it ? In my mind for a ball to wobble, the core must be loose, otherwise even if the core in not positioned properly, it should find its preferred spin axis.
Does this make sense to anyone ?
Post by: J_Mac on June 05, 2009, 01:52:21 PM
Balls that are out of round.
Pins sticking out above the surface of the ball.
Raised engraving. (more a Brunswick thing)
Large holes.
Post by: DanH78 on June 05, 2009, 01:56:07 PM
quote:
Yes, Dan, I did catch this. Please reread my first post. When did he get it "checked out" by the other shop, before or after the shop in question? We don't know? If he "knew" the ball was good before, why didn't he call them on it? Why didn't he get it drilled by the supposed "checking" pro shop? If he had it checked out after he was at the mentioned shop, then HE DID NOT KNOW AT THE TIME that shop was juking him, which is what I suspect happened and that is why DCNet did not call them on it, he had no proof.
Hmmm????
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THIS SPACE FOR RENT
Mike, I know you addressed it, but most seem to be totally glossing over it. We obviously don't know the whole story, but just like any business, there are some unethical people out there. DCN got that funny feeling that something wasn't right at the shop, so he just smiled, packed up his stuff and left. What good would it have done to get in an argument with the guy? Without having his own machine, there is no way to prove that Pro Shop #1 was lying.
I know and trust my pro shop guy, but I think it's wrong to just blindly trust someone just because they are a "Professional." People keep saying "What if he wasn't lying?" It doesn't matter, because he was lying.
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It IS next year!
Post by: Mike Austin on June 05, 2009, 02:39:19 PM
quote:quote:
Yes, Dan, I did catch this. Please reread my first post. When did he get it "checked out" by the other shop, before or after the shop in question? We don't know? If he "knew" the ball was good before, why didn't he call them on it? Why didn't he get it drilled by the supposed "checking" pro shop? If he had it checked out after he was at the mentioned shop, then HE DID NOT KNOW AT THE TIME that shop was juking him, which is what I suspect happened and that is why DCNet did not call them on it, he had no proof.
Hmmm????
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THIS SPACE FOR RENT
Mike, I know you addressed it, but most seem to be totally glossing over it. We obviously don't know the whole story, but just like any business, there are some unethical people out there. DCN got that funny feeling that something wasn't right at the shop, so he just smiled, packed up his stuff and left. What good would it have done to get in an argument with the guy? Without having his own machine, there is no way to prove that Pro Shop #1 was lying.
I know and trust my pro shop guy, but I think it's wrong to just blindly trust someone just because they are a "Professional." People keep saying "What if he wasn't lying?" It doesn't matter, because he was lying.
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It IS next year!
Agree with the unethical part, without being there, we just won't know. I just didn't get the feeling from the OP that he just smiled, packed, and left. His tone seems different than that.
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THIS SPACE FOR RENT
Post by: RyanRPS on June 05, 2009, 03:23:11 PM
quote:
MoRich, as far as I know, is the only company that factory spins a ball and marks an accurate PSA (MB)
The other companies mark a spot 6 3/4 " from Pin through CG..
LOL! -4
Ryan
Post by: Smash49 on June 05, 2009, 03:24:43 PM
As for kids! I give the kids a break. Over the last few years I have drilled several Texas State Youth champions balls. Several Dallas City champions equipment. Texas State High School champions. I have bowlers that drive 150 miles from Dallas to have me drill their equipment, including the Texas State Youth Scratch Div 1 All Events champion. People ask them where they get their equipment done and when they tell them that they drive that distance they are shocked. They win and I like it when they tell people it's one of the balls I did.
Smash49
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Smash49
Slick, tacky, wood or synthetic it does not matter your slide is correct with SLSM Designs Bowlers Slide Sock. The Finest Slide Sock on the Planet!!!
www.bowlersslidesock.com
Striking Cat Bowling Pro Shop, Duncan Oklahoma! IBPSIA Certified Technician
www.strikingcatbowling.com
Post by: Nor Cal Bowler on June 05, 2009, 03:28:10 PM
quote:
Here's what I tell my customers in my other business...band instrument repair when they say they need it right away. (in other words they want to be put at the front of the line).
"That's fine. I'll give you the names of every one ahead of you. You call them and if they all say its OK for you jump inline then I'll do your work first".
Erin
LOL!!
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Visionary Test Staff Member and owner of every worldwide Visionary release...
_______________________________________________
http://s450.photobucket.com/albums/qq229/NorCalBowler/visionary/
Post by: nutsforbowling on June 05, 2009, 03:31:34 PM
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Me stupid. Me believe anything. Please tell me what to do.
Post by: Kid Jete on June 05, 2009, 03:43:47 PM
quote:
I wish I had the money to buy 50+ balls a year. I'm lucky if I can buy 1 a year. Why would someone need 50+ different balls anyways?
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Me stupid. Me believe anything. Please tell me what to do.
Why do some people go out and blow 50 bucks at a bar 3 days a week? Enjoyment maybe?
Post by: golfnutFL on June 05, 2009, 04:30:33 PM
quote:
I wish I had the money to buy 50+ balls a year. I'm lucky if I can buy 1 a year. Why would someone need 50+ different balls anyways?
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Me stupid. Me believe anything. Please tell me what to do.
Post by: golfnutFL on June 05, 2009, 04:32:59 PM
quote:
Why do some people go out and blow 50 bucks at a bar 3 days a week? Enjoyment maybe?
Post by: sluggo35 on June 05, 2009, 04:56:58 PM
Post by: DCNetBoy on June 05, 2009, 06:22:58 PM
He’s baaack...
I have finally had a moment to sit and read most of the comments about this issue. It has been quite interesting to read all of the different point of views on this matter.
Before I get started, let me say that this issue is really not about me or my ball. It is about “CUSTOMER SERVICEâ€. If I had written out every little detail about what happened the other day, the original post might have looked like a small novel. I was at work at the time when I wrote and I was not fully focused on getting down every single detail. The actual experience in the shop did not take more than twenty minutes. However, the memory of bad customer service from that particular pro shop will last a hell of a lot longer.
Now to all of the folks who have chimed in about whether or not I was being truthful about this matter... Let me say this... “I have no need to lie†about this. It serves no purpose in this matter. However, I do understand that my perspective is from a “customer’s standpointâ€. And from that point of view, I did not expect for anyone to intentionally try to mislead me just because I did not purchase a ball at their place of business.
Hear are a few facts.
1. I went to the shop to get a ball drilled and to buy a few other accessories.
2. I came in with a new ball, new inserts, and a new thumb slug.
3. When I opened my bag, the driller sees the ball and the inserts.
4. I pull the ball out of my bowling bag, (the ball is still in the plastic bag that comes with the new ball) and then I give it to him.
5. He takes the ball, pulls it out of the plastic bag, then puts the plastic bag back in my bowling bag. He then proceeds to walk back to the drilling area.
6. As he is walking back, he says “I may have to charge you $60 dollars for the drilling.â€
7. The posted price is $50 on his pricing menu.
8. The price that I paid two weeks before when I had another ball drilled was $50. The exact total that I paid for the entire drilling was actually $65. I also purchased a thumb slug from him. The shop charges $15 for a thumb slug.
The mention of the price difference was the first blip on my radar. I didn’t say anything because nothing had been done. In that brief moment, I knew that there was the possibility that they had raised the price of drilling and that it just had not been posted yet. (Possibility – He said...)
Still with me?...
9. Read the original post for those details.
10. I knew what a “DeTerminator†machine was before I came in the shop. However, I did not know at the time that in order to get a true reading for the mass bias, the ball should be spun at least twice.
11. See http://www.jayhawkbowling.com/DeTerminator/DeTmanual.pdf for more info. (Every serious bowler should read this document!!)
12. This is a key point... He did not perform the steps as they are written. He may not have had to do so. He knows more about his machine than I do. However, he did not mark the ball and he definitely did not use a Pro-Sect to check the markings.
13. I watched him put the ball on the machine. He did not spin it twice before he said “I hope you didn’t pay a lot for this ball…â€.
14. When he put his ball on the machine, he did not spin it twice.
I will say this again. At the time, I did not know all the technical aspects of the DeTerminator machine. But I do know what I feel like when something does not feel right. Did I know he was trying to mislead me at the time? No, I did not. Did I feel like there might be an issue with getting my ball drilled at that particular moment? Yes! Yes, I did.
15. After spinning his ball, he spins my ball again. (Verification – LOL!)
16. He then says... “Now, I can not give you a trade, but...†then he immediately starts to look through his inventory of balls.
17. While he is looking, he says out loud, “Here is one with a five inch pin.â€
That’s when I picked up my stuff! My “radar†was at full blast then. There were blips all over my radar screen. LOL! That’s when I started to put my stuff back in the bag.
He then goes on some more about the how other companies had a few issues with their balls. As I am picking up my bag, he tries to tell me about how he could give me a discount if I purchased a ball, bag, and shoes at the same time.
Small talk, small talk... Gotta go! That’s when I walked out.
I called Storm later that afternoon. I tell the tech rep that I wanted to ask a few questions about mass bias settings/markings. I also told him that I thought that the shop might have been trying to pull a fast one because I brought a ball into the shop. He agreed.
After asking him a few questions, the rep then stated that it was “very rare†that their balls are mislabled or marked incorrectly. He did say that is does occur once in a while, but it was unlikely to occur. He also said that if a pro shop’s machine is not calibrated properly, or if the ball starts to wobble, that you might not get a true reading from the DeTerminator machine. He then offered to ship me another ball if my ball turned out to be not up to specs after I had it checked at another shop. (Remember the thing is said about about “Customer Support�)
After the conversation with Storm, I looked for and found the document listed above.
The first chance I got, I went to another shop to get my ball checked. The original pro shop driller did not become a “liar†on the day I went into his shop. He became a liar after I got the ball checked out “properly†and drilled at another shop. The rest is history!
Customer support is not about trying to mislead a customer in order to make a sale. To me, that is unacceptable and unprofessional. And folks, I don’t care how you look at it, that is exactly what occurred in this situation. I guess he was trying to make me feel like I had purchased “inferior†equipment because it was not purchased from his shop.
He checked my stuff, told me it wasn’t up to snuff, then tried to sell me something. Twice! Can you blame him? Not if you are in the pro shop business. LOL! He saw a customer come in with a new ball AND inserts, then probably thought that I was trying to cut his profits.
From a customer’s standpoint... Hell yeah, you can blame him. He’s trying to get my money and I am trying to save it. LOL! Seriously, why would he even take the risk? I had just come in a few weeks before to get something drilled. (From my perspective, everything went fine that day.) They didn’t go out of business because I saved thirty dollars. LOL! I even told him then that I would be back in June. I also told him then that I was replacing all of my old equipment because I want to move down to 14 pound balls. If he had an issue with me bringing in a ball from outside of his shop, then that was the perfect time to say something.
Did he know that I was waiting to purchase the Virtual Energy from him later this month? No. But I sure planned on telling him after I got the Gravity drilled. Did he know that I also wanted to purchase one more ball after that? No. But I planned on telling him that, too. In trying to get his $20 or $40 dollars back or whatever, he missed out on another $200 or $400+ from the pending sales alone.
To the pro shop owners, do what you do to keep your business going. But keep in mind that saving money is not a crime. The next time someone brings a ball to you to be drilled, accept their money just as if they bought that ball from your shop. The last time I checked, the color of money is still GREEN! Whether you want to save it or earn it is up to you. Your customer support should be the same for all of your customers. Treat them with respect and professionalism and they will gladly go out their way to spend at your shop.
PEACE!
Post by: Kid Jete on June 05, 2009, 06:38:14 PM
Post by: Atochabsh on June 05, 2009, 07:51:28 PM
But its your money and like was said, if you feel uncomfortable with him don't use him. And of course we don't have his side of the story. I would be highly doubtful that you would buy a ball from him much less two as you stated since you came in with ball, slub and grips.
Erin
Post by: laufaye on June 05, 2009, 08:46:22 PM
quote:
I agree with you. Do what you want, it's your money. If I feel like someone is trying to pull a fast one on me I'm outta there. Maybe I'm wrong and maybe I'm not but why should I spend MY money when I don't feel right about it. In this case it sounds like you were spot on in your judgement. Good for you, bad for the shop. I never could understand the argument about buying balls from the shop in the first place. It's the consumers money and the consumer can spend it where and how they want. Why should a shop just expect a consumer to buy a ball from them and not online? There is plenty the shop can do, including not drilling online balls, if they want to just throw away business on principle alone. If you choose to be in the pro shop business find a way to make it work or get out... just don't try to rip off a smart customer, make sure you KNOW they are gullable. HA!
I cannot agree more, you sound like a smart person to me, I think the smartest.
I am off to Costco getting some ribeye and then head to Ruth Chris, I think they should not expect me to order the steak there, I got my own, but I will tell them your story to smart them up.....
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Laufaye
Post by: kingpin268 on June 05, 2009, 09:31:00 PM
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Penn State Mens Bowling Team
Post by: tc300 on June 06, 2009, 02:51:19 AM
Quote
Quick question.....I bring you 50-60 balls per year to drill for me for the past 3-4 years....do you still put me in the back of the line?Quote
great point...... but i wouldnt want my ball driller to rush drilling and layn out my ball(s) fyi.
Post by: six pack on June 06, 2009, 11:13:24 AM
the pro shop should have a sign stating NOT Responsible For Internet Products!
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The harder I try the harder they fall
Post by: SPCD on June 06, 2009, 11:47:10 AM
The pro shop being discussed is Sports Plus/Carmen Don Pro Shop in Alexandria VA. I am the owner and have been for 22 years.
I overheard much of this conversation while the customer was in the shop, as did the distributor that was visiting. We discussed it briefly after the customer left. We both agreed that this is a delicate situation due too the anti-internet feelings throughout some of the pro shop industry. Every manufacturer can tell you horror stories about less than reputable pro shops intentionally misleading their customers by claiming that everything on the internet is junk being unloaded on suckers. There are also plenty of discussions on this board about pro shops abusing customers that bring in a ball from “outside their shopâ€. Unfortunately many bowlers have been conditioned to expect the worst when they show up with an internet ball.
SP/CD Pro Shop does not share this philosophy. We welcome every customer and have no problem with customers purchasing their equipment from their seller of choice. If a pro shop has set their drill only charge at a level that accurately represents their technical knowledge and their contribution to the ultimate success of the product, where the ball came from should not be an issue.
The quality of the product should always be an issue whether the ball came from our shelf or some outside source. Storm is a very reputable company with a high level of integrity. Bill Crisman and his staff would not have it any other way. Storm would not intentionally try to pass off a ball with a defect as a first line ball. However, like every other company, one occasionally slips through their quality control. Bowling balls are manufactured and inspected by humans and humans occasionally make mistakes. Our shop, like many, has made a significant investment in a Determinator to help us identify this occasional problem which allows us to improve the quality of service to our customers.
When we find one of these mistakes, we feel an obligation to address the issue. Could be punch three holes, send the customer out the door, and hope the ball works? Sure we could but that would be a disservice to the customer and the manufacturer and we would not be doing our job we’re being paid to do.
In this particular case, our driller was pretty busy that day and apparently did not recognize the level of concern this customer was feeling or he would not have made a cavalier comment like “I hope you didn’t pay a lot for this ballâ€. Obviously the cost of this ball or where it came from had nothing to do with the issue but was simply normal pro shop banter between two individuals that had know each other for years and had interacted numerous times.
In my opinion, the driller’s apparent mistake was that he interacted with this individual on a level he felt appropriate based on his perception of the customer’s technical knowledge and his comfort level with our shop. Perhaps he should have slowed down and explained things in more detail but then he probably would have been perceived as talking down to a technically knowledgeable bowler.
This ball driller is a highly skilled, IBPSIA certified, nationally recognized expert at what he does. He works in a pro shop that prides itself on its integrity and honesty. I have the utmost respect for this individual and trust him fully with my business. I can assure you there was no intent to mislead anyone.
I won’t turn this into a book by addressing each of the 17 points made by this writer but I would like to respond to the $60 charge versus the $50 posted price. The last time he was in he purchased a thumb slug, a $15 charge. This time he brought his own, a $10 installation charge. Nothing deceptive going on here.
We try and help every customer get the most out of their bowling equipment and bowling experience but obviously we can’t make everyone happy. Sorry.
One final, unrelated comment. Bowl Expo is coming to Las Vegas the end of June. During the convention, our pro shop is being recognized as the IBPSIA Bowling Pro Shop of the Year. This prestigious award is voted on by our peers and some of the leading experts in the bowling industry. I would like to thank my staff, including the individual discussed here, for their collective effort in earning us this award.
Post by: BowlingWolf on June 06, 2009, 12:04:22 PM
Very courteous and professional response.
It is no wonder your shop garners prestigious awards for service rendered.
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We will be known forever by the tracks we leave.
Post by: mumzie on June 06, 2009, 03:25:03 PM
I would also like to add something to this post. In the embroidery business, we are often asked "will you embroider on MY item? I bought shirts at XXX, because they're cheaper. How much do you charge?"
We have several policies in place for just that question.
1. If you purchase the goods from us, and we screw something up, you, the customer will likely never even know about it. If you purchase the goods elsewhere, there is a (very small) risk that something could happen to your item - and we will not be held responsible.
I would imagine that most pro shops take the same approach. If they mis punch a ball they sell, they'll fix the problem - if they need to replace the ball to make it right, they will. If you come in with a ball purchased from an internet site, if they mess up, they'll probably try to fix with plug and/or slug, but otherwise, you're on your own.
2. The time it takes to setup the job is the same, whether you purchase the goods from us, or from someone else. Part of the proceeds of the garment purchase help offset that setup time, so our embroidery prices are lower if you purchase the entire thing from us.
This also holds true for pro shops - it takes AT LEAST as much time to setup and drill a ball purchased elsewhere - especially if you have seen tons of seconds come in from different internet sites, and know that the prudent thing to do is weigh every ball.
3. We have our known, trusted suppliers. When we order a Large Red model 12 shirt from them today, we know that it's going to be the same size, color, and cut as the one we ordered 6 months ago. We know that the fabric is made to be decorated (whether embroidered or printed), and we know that the garment is going to hold up through washings, the dryer, and general abuse.
When customers bring us items they've purchased elsewhere, we know this is not always the case. When items are purchased from us, we offer a satisfaction guarantee, and will replace items that are defective in workmanship or materials. When someone brings items in, we offer no warranties or guarantees.
I'm sure pro shops feel the same way. A number of internet sites, are just web sites, with no inventory, no overhead, and no physical location of any kind. They drop ship from the distributors, and don't ever see the product that's delivered to their customers. So if you order a particular pin, or specific weight, the internet site has to rely on the accuracy of the supplier - we all know mistakes happen. Again - when my supplier mis-picks a shirt,and sends the black one instead of red, you will never know it happens. If you have shirts drop shipped to us, you have no way of knowing we got the right stuff.
4. I've invested a LOT of time and money in equipment, rent, overhead, special software, inventory, and expertise. I need to sell the whole package in order to stay in business. My reputation is everything - I need to make sure my customers are happy, and that they spread the good word of mouth mojo!
I know for a fact that the same is true for brick/mortar pro shops. Internet sites can just change their name and reopen tomorrow - and most people would never know the difference.
Well, anyway - just a few opinions from a fellow business owner!
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www.Shirts4Bowling.com
We Know What Bowlers Want
Home of the HAMBONE shirt!
Post by: Kid Jete on June 06, 2009, 04:04:42 PM
quote:quote:
I agree with you. Do what you want, it's your money. If I feel like someone is trying to pull a fast one on me I'm outta there. Maybe I'm wrong and maybe I'm not but why should I spend MY money when I don't feel right about it. In this case it sounds like you were spot on in your judgement. Good for you, bad for the shop. I never could understand the argument about buying balls from the shop in the first place. It's the consumers money and the consumer can spend it where and how they want. Why should a shop just expect a consumer to buy a ball from them and not online? There is plenty the shop can do, including not drilling online balls, if they want to just throw away business on principle alone. If you choose to be in the pro shop business find a way to make it work or get out... just don't try to rip off a smart customer, make sure you KNOW they are gullable. HA!
I cannot agree more, you sound like a smart person to me, I think the smartest.
I am off to Costco getting some ribeye and then head to Ruth Chris, I think they should not expect me to order the steak there, I got my own, but I will tell them your story to smart them up.....
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Laufaye
You make no sense. Why would you go into a restaraunt just to tell them you already bought steaks at Costco? That's like personally buying a car from someone and then going to the Chevy dealership just to tell them you bought a car. The pro shop provides the SERVICE of drilling balls and if the customer feels like buying the ball from them so be it. Does the pro shop turn away internet balls? No. Would the restaraunt turn you away when you ask them to cook the steak you just bought at Costco? Yes. Nice try though, thanks come again.
Post by: cheech on June 06, 2009, 05:54:10 PM
quote:quote:
the one thing that sucks about proshops disliking outside balls is the kids in college. there is a collegiate pricing program that you purchase balls straight from the manufacture and you get them at about 90-100 bucks off the retail price (like 104 for high performance and 92 for benchmark type stuff) then you go to the proshop and they act like you went online to get it. i still end up saving like 50 each ball but at least the shop i go to he makes me feel like im cutting him down cuz i got it through the collegiate program
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HG:300x2(SR300 both)
HS:792(SR300)
2004 NYSPHSAA team champions
2007 NYSPHSAA individual high game(300) and series(1411-6 games)
sacred heart university bowling, frosh.
greatest accomplishment:shooting 603 and not shooting one 200 game(130,173,300)...lol
balls for sale in my profile
p.s. go leftys
I drilled balls for the Texas Southern Lady Tigers program, NCAA program. I usually gave them a deal, I liked the girls, they were soooo thankful for any little thing. The guy running the program though was a micro managing moron, didn't know anything about bowling. They did well in spite of him. They did usually plan ahead, so time was not really an issue.
I drilled balls for the University of Houston bowlers. I got a list of who was in the program and drilled their balls for $25. They brought balls, grips, slugs, everything. Those kids were very grateful too.
Not all pro shops dislike college bowlers. Some kids try to take advantage of the system though. Some programs can get just about unlimited amounts of equipment at a very low price, about what distributors pay. Some kids then take these balls and sell them to anyone they can find for dirt. I have seen it. Flooding balls into the local area, it's just the principle of the matter.
Like was mentioned earlier, most pro shops don't mind internet or blank balls being brought in. I had ala carte pricing, so drilling was added on and was the same price whether you bought the ball from me or not.
My customers knew I was busy year round, knew that I worked my A%% off, and the huge majority of the time didn't mind waiting. (There was a time that I was about 5-7 days turn around on getting a ball drilled for about a month time. Just had pro am balls, equipment league balls, state tournament in my center, AND normal business all at the same time. Pulled some all nighters in there.
I notice DC has not come back on and answered any of the questions posed to him.
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THIS SPACE FOR RENT
ya when im at school i go to buddies pro shop cuz it slike 10 mins away and they dont care and they give the team breaks cuz alot of them went to my school. thye are cool dudes. when im home my proshop guy understands that i bring balls to him cuz before i went away i always got my stuff from the shop. i dont think he dislikes me for bringing stuff in cuz ive gone to him for 15 years. he is just an old fashioned guy that strongly prefers people to buy the ball inside the shop but he is just as happy taking your money by drilling a blank
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HG:300x2(SR300 both)
HS:792(SR300)
2004 NYSPHSAA team champions
2007 NYSPHSAA individual high game(300) and series(1411-6 games)
sacred heart university bowling, frosh.
greatest accomplishment:shooting 603 and not shooting one 200 game(130,173,300)...lol
balls for sale in my profile
p.s. go leftys
Post by: nd300 on June 06, 2009, 06:08:43 PM
The driller does a very professional job every time. I've particularly been impressed with this handling of sometimes younger children getting a plastic Target Zone for the junior leagues. I have yet to see one child come out of his shop NOT smiling and having had a good time.
He is also up front BEFORE plugging and drilling with his pricing policy,and usually gives an exact amount it will cost to have the ball done.
As a return customer, I have no problem waiting in line at any time if someone is in line ahead of me. Their money is just as important to the owner as mine is,and I'd be an azz if I walked in and butted ahead in line simply because I've bowled there for 13 years.
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Chris
JTTDB---Just Throw The Damn Ball
Don't "think"---that ball isn't in your bag yet..........
Post by: BeansProShop on June 06, 2009, 06:57:58 PM
quote:
If your ball wasn't finding its PSA and kept 'wobbling', then it very well could be a bad ball. His was quiet because it found PSA and stabilized. Not all marked PSA's are correct...
Whatever though, you already burned a bridge there.
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Nick Smith ... A.K.A. BrunsNick
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-09
http://www.BrunsNick.com
http://www.BigBapparel.com
http://www.OnTheBallBowling.com
Use coupon code 1f59492 and save 15%
This is very true. Although if the ball wasn't marked a blem what reason does it matter where the ball was purchased. The ball could have been bad if it was bought from his shop as well. Do you think most shop owners would have offered the info of the ball being bad to him then???
Just wondering....As we all know 100% of all shops are not honest.
Beans
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www.beansproshop.com
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Thomas "Beans" Biniek Jr.
PBA Member and Lane#1 National Sales Manager and Lane#1 Ball Drilling Expert
Check out current eBay auctions at:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=beanssecretsauce Official Pro Shop of "ALL" F.O.S. Members!!!
Post by: Gazoo on June 06, 2009, 07:51:26 PM
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"I don't want to be remembered, I want to be forgotten"
Post by: Atochabsh on June 07, 2009, 05:58:51 PM
quote:
You make no sense.
What doesn't make sense? You bring two eggs into Dennys and ask them to cook the eggs for you for $2. When they want to charge you $3, you complain about the cost of cooking the eggs.
Erin
Post by: bowlerdawg on June 07, 2009, 06:07:28 PM
quote:
SPCD,
Very courteous and professional response.
It is no wonder your shop garners prestigious awards for service rendered.
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We will be known forever by the tracks we leave.
+1
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I'm your huckleberry
Post by: Kid Jete on June 07, 2009, 08:24:08 PM
quote:quote:
You make no sense.
What doesn't make sense? You bring two eggs into Dennys and ask them to cook the eggs for you for $2. When they want to charge you $3, you complain about the cost of cooking the eggs.
Erin
What the F*** are you talking about? You ALSO make no sense.
Post by: sevenpin63 on June 07, 2009, 08:34:38 PM
quote:quote:quote:
You make no sense.
What doesn't make sense? You bring two eggs into Dennys and ask them to cook the eggs for you for $2. When they want to charge you $3, you complain about the cost of cooking the eggs.
Erin
What the F*** are you talking about? You ALSO make no sense.
He wants to bring his own burgers to McDonalds and have them cook them for him. I know it does not make any since but that is the analogy he used.
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DON'T TEMPT THE BOWLING GODS
Edited on 6/7/2009 8:36 PM
Post by: Kid Jete on June 07, 2009, 08:41:01 PM
quote:quote:quote:quote:
You make no sense.
What doesn't make sense? You bring two eggs into Dennys and ask them to cook the eggs for you for $2. When they want to charge you $3, you complain about the cost of cooking the eggs.
Erin
What the F*** are you talking about? You ALSO make no sense.
He wants to bring his own burgers to McDonalds and have them cook them for him. I know it does not make any since but that is the analogy he used.
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DON'T TEMPT THE BOWLING GODS
Edited on 6/7/2009 8:36 PM
Oh I know what he meant but it makes no sense at all. A pro shop is there specifically to drill balls whether they are purchased from them or not a restaurant is there to cook the crap food they already have in the kitchen. I'm not even sure you can call that an analogy. Apples to potatoes at very best lol.
Post by: Atochabsh on June 07, 2009, 09:08:01 PM
Erin
Post by: Atochabsh on June 07, 2009, 09:09:21 PM
quote:
A pro shop is there specifically to drill balls whether they are purchased from them or not
Up until recently this was NOT the case.
Post by: sevenpin63 on June 07, 2009, 09:13:05 PM
quote:quote:
A pro shop is there specifically to drill balls whether they are purchased from them or not
Up until recently this was NOT the case.
But it is now YES or NO?
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DON'T TEMPT THE BOWLING GODS
Post by: Atochabsh on June 07, 2009, 10:36:27 PM
I know all you internet buyers want that $10-$20 savings. But there are the shops on the other side that cannot survive trying to cosntantly explain mis marked balls and "pro pins" to everyone that beleives they just got the deal of the year. Sure we charge to drill the balls, partially to make up the loss of retail sales, but get flack from that too. But the drilling is not the only methods from which we earn a living. Selling balls is part of it. And now the internet has taken mot of that from us.
Now a customer flys off the handle and complains publically that "I've been ripped off and lied to" without even trying to handle this issue privately with the business. I just don't really know what to say. The shop owner loses, and is now faced with having to explain their position when they really shouldn't have to do so publically. There's no reason why an adult would not have contacted the owner of the shop privately with their issue concerning their visit to the pro shop. Instead they take it to a public board and attempt to totally Internationally blacken a business reputation all based on a stinkin' $20 savings off an internet ball.
Erin
Post by: Mike Austin on June 07, 2009, 10:52:44 PM
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THIS SPACE FOR RENT
Post by: Kid Jete on June 07, 2009, 11:42:35 PM
quote:quote:
A pro shop is there specifically to drill balls whether they are purchased from them or not
Up until recently this was NOT the case.
You call 5+ years recent? If you can't adjust a business accordingly in that amount of time you might as well shut 'er down. I have no sympathy for shops that cry about internet sales ruining their business. I went through it in the golf industry and came out just fine. No one ever heard me b****ing and moaning, I found other ways to make up the loss of internet sales. Comparing a bowling pro shop to a Denny's is ridiculous. It would be like a Denny's owner crying about the grocery store down the street ruining his business. Not to mention they would and will NEVER have people bringing in their own pancake mix. Get a grip, or at least a better analogy.
Post by: Atochabsh on June 08, 2009, 12:12:21 AM
quote:
I went through it in the golf industry and came out just fine.
How much fitting does it take for a novice golfer to use a club "off the rack"?
Erin
Post by: Atochabsh on June 08, 2009, 12:15:14 AM
quote:
These also used to be exclusively supplied by the pro shop and there was no labor involved.
NO, every single ball selling internet site I've seen also sells bags. Most without shipping. And for about the price that I have to pay for them at the wholesale end.
Erin
Post by: Atochabsh on June 08, 2009, 12:19:33 AM
The only thing we can offer is our experience and the availability to have the item immediately or get it in a day or so. But stocking the hugh variety of items is difficult, yet there are (fortunately) many items that will proficiently fit the request of the customer.
Erin
Post by: Atochabsh on June 08, 2009, 12:22:19 AM
quote:
It would be like a Denny's owner crying about the grocery store down the street ruining his business.
Only if those folks all use a home hand drill to drill the holes in their internet purchased bowling balls. Most people don't have a drill press in their home much less the jigs and other equipment needed to properly weigh out and drill a ball.
Erin
Post by: laufaye on June 08, 2009, 12:32:39 AM
I agree with you 100%, I have 2 shops, but its no point to convince these idiots, really getting old, they are on the other side, the are the customers which they think they are always right. This topic has been talked about forever, its not going to change, I am not happy about it, but trying to convince idiots is not going to help it....
Good luck and sell lots of balls in the coming seasons...
--------------------
Laufaye
Post by: Kid Jete on June 08, 2009, 12:33:58 AM
quote:quote:
I went through it in the golf industry and came out just fine.
How much fitting does it take for a novice golfer to use a club "off the rack"?
Erin
About as much as a novice bowler grabbing a lane ball "off the rack".
Post by: Kid Jete on June 08, 2009, 12:40:00 AM
quote:
.quote:
It would be like a Denny's owner crying about the grocery store down the street ruining his business.
Only if those folks all use a home hand drill to drill the holes in their internet purchased bowling balls. Most people don't have a drill press in their home much less the jigs and other equipment needed to properly weigh out and drill a ball.
Erin
Why would they have to drill the ball themselves? You just made the dumb comparions of an internet bought bowling ball at a pro shop to eggs at Denny's. Where the hell else would you buy eggs. You really don't make any sense at all and you stink at analogies, oh wait I think I already mentioned that a few times didn't I.
Post by: SleepOnIce on June 08, 2009, 12:42:15 AM
quote:
Sorry I got to this party late but it looks like we are getting some interesting perspectives from both sides of this issue.
The pro shop being discussed is Sports Plus/Carmen Don Pro Shop in Alexandria VA. I am the owner and have been for 22 years.
I overheard much of this conversation while the customer was in the shop, as did the distributor that was visiting. We discussed it briefly after the customer left. We both agreed that this is a delicate situation due too the anti-internet feelings throughout some of the pro shop industry. Every manufacturer can tell you horror stories about less than reputable pro shops intentionally misleading their customers by claiming that everything on the internet is junk being unloaded on suckers. There are also plenty of discussions on this board about pro shops abusing customers that bring in a ball from “outside their shopâ€. Unfortunately many bowlers have been conditioned to expect the worst when they show up with an internet ball.
SP/CD Pro Shop does not share this philosophy. We welcome every customer and have no problem with customers purchasing their equipment from their seller of choice. If a pro shop has set their drill only charge at a level that accurately represents their technical knowledge and their contribution to the ultimate success of the product, where the ball came from should not be an issue.
The quality of the product should always be an issue whether the ball came from our shelf or some outside source. Storm is a very reputable company with a high level of integrity. Bill Crisman and his staff would not have it any other way. Storm would not intentionally try to pass off a ball with a defect as a first line ball. However, like every other company, one occasionally slips through their quality control. Bowling balls are manufactured and inspected by humans and humans occasionally make mistakes. Our shop, like many, has made a significant investment in a Determinator to help us identify this occasional problem which allows us to improve the quality of service to our customers.
When we find one of these mistakes, we feel an obligation to address the issue. Could be punch three holes, send the customer out the door, and hope the ball works? Sure we could but that would be a disservice to the customer and the manufacturer and we would not be doing our job we’re being paid to do.
In this particular case, our driller was pretty busy that day and apparently did not recognize the level of concern this customer was feeling or he would not have made a cavalier comment like “I hope you didn’t pay a lot for this ballâ€. Obviously the cost of this ball or where it came from had nothing to do with the issue but was simply normal pro shop banter between two individuals that had know each other for years and had interacted numerous times.
In my opinion, the driller’s apparent mistake was that he interacted with this individual on a level he felt appropriate based on his perception of the customer’s technical knowledge and his comfort level with our shop. Perhaps he should have slowed down and explained things in more detail but then he probably would have been perceived as talking down to a technically knowledgeable bowler.
This ball driller is a highly skilled, IBPSIA certified, nationally recognized expert at what he does. He works in a pro shop that prides itself on its integrity and honesty. I have the utmost respect for this individual and trust him fully with my business. I can assure you there was no intent to mislead anyone.
I won’t turn this into a book by addressing each of the 17 points made by this writer but I would like to respond to the $60 charge versus the $50 posted price. The last time he was in he purchased a thumb slug, a $15 charge. This time he brought his own, a $10 installation charge. Nothing deceptive going on here.
We try and help every customer get the most out of their bowling equipment and bowling experience but obviously we can’t make everyone happy. Sorry.
One final, unrelated comment. Bowl Expo is coming to Las Vegas the end of June. During the convention, our pro shop is being recognized as the IBPSIA Bowling Pro Shop of the Year. This prestigious award is voted on by our peers and some of the leading experts in the bowling industry. I would like to thank my staff, including the individual discussed here, for their collective effort in earning us this award.
Sweet post man. I doubt you'll get responded to by the OP though, until he can think up some more things that "happened".
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BLARGH
Rob Stone Supporters of America!
Post by: Kid Jete on June 08, 2009, 12:46:32 AM
quote:
Erin,
I agree with you 100%, I have 2 shops, but its no point to convince these idiots, really getting old, they are on the other side, the are the customers which they think they are always right. This topic has been talked about forever, its not going to change, I am not happy about it, but trying to convince idiots is not going to help it....
Good luck and sell lots of balls in the coming seasons...
--------------------
Laufaye
Yeah good idea to call customers idiots. When a guy brings in a ball he bought off the internet do you call him an idiot and kick him of the shop? Okay so you own two shops. Why can't a customer buy a ball from the internet? Why in gods name would you cry about drilling it? Do you always cry when people hand you 50 bucks for a half hour of your time? When people bring me their internet bought golf clubs to be reshafted or regripped I don't call them idiots and refuse service. I WISH I could regrip/reshaft a few sets of clubs a day, I wouldn't do anything else for the next 30 years. Hell I WISH they would just bring their own grips and shafts too so I could carry ZERO inventory and just charge for the service.
Edited on 6/8/2009 0:51 AM
Post by: laufaye on June 08, 2009, 12:58:59 AM
quote:QuoteErin,
I agree with you 100%, I have 2 shops, but its no point to convince these idiots, really getting old, they are on the other side, the are the customers which they think they are always right. This topic has been talked about forever, its not going to change, I am not happy about it, but trying to convince idiots is not going to help it....
Good luck and sell lots of balls in the coming seasons...
--------------------
Laufaye[/quote
Yeah good idea to call customers idiots. When a guy brings in a ball he bought off the internet do you call him an idiot and kick him of the shop? Okay so you own two shops. Why can't a customer buy a ball from the internet? Why in gods name would you cry about drilling it? Do you always cry when people hand you 50 bucks for a half hour of your time? When people bring me their internet bought golf clubs to be reshafted or regripped I don't call them idiots and refuse service. I WISH I could regrip/reshaft a few sets of clubs a day, I wouldn't do anything else for the next 30 years. Hell I WISH they would just bring their own grips and shafts too so I could carry ZERO inventory and just charge for the service.
Edited on 6/8/2009 0:51 AM
I am very happy to have customer bring in balls and I drill it for $50, I will not call them idiots, I love my customers, hence I am not crying or b!tching...
But I will be happier if they buy the balls from us...
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Laufaye
Post by: drifter106 on June 08, 2009, 01:26:27 AM
--------------------
What is common knowledge to some, is a revelation to others...
Post by: golfnutFL on June 08, 2009, 01:31:45 AM
I get a good laugh at some of the pro shop guys here, preaching how important loyalty to their shop is, and then pushing whoever is offering them the buy 4 get 1 specials over the best match for the consumer. I've been around this business 30+ years. The majority of owners I've dealt with are out to make a buck (like any business owner) but too many here claim righteousness and customer devotion as their business model. That's crap, and anyone that's been around this business long enough knows it. Anyone that's owned ANY business knows it crap, business owners are in business to make money. Period. Is customer satisfaction important? Of course. Is maximizing your profits the reason for owning a business? I don't think think that question requires an answer.
Here's the problem for pro shop owners you are being squeezed by both sides of your business model, your suppliers and your demanders regard you as a necessary evil. The distributors love the volume pushed by the internet shops so you've lost pricing advantages. A growing volume of your consumers question your pricing policy and buy from internet shops. What does that leave you? Drilling services. Get used to it. Smaller sq. ft. shops with few supplies except those needed for drilling are the future. The rest of you guys just don't realize it yet.
quote:
I am very happy to have customer bring in balls and I drill it for $50, I will not call them idiots, I love my customers, hence I am not crying or b!tching...
But I will be happier if they buy the balls from us...
--------------------
Laufaye
Post by: laufaye on June 08, 2009, 01:56:52 AM
quote:
Sure sounded like you were calling them idiots. I hope your customers read your posts and know who you are....and then they can buy ALL of their balls from the internet and you become a drilling service. Ultimately, all shops will become drilling shops, except for the uninformed consumer.
I get a good laugh at some of the pro shop guys here, preaching how important loyalty to their shop is, and then pushing whoever is offering them the buy 4 get 1 specials over the best match for the consumer. I've been around this business 30+ years. The majority of owners I've dealt with are out to make a buck (like any business owner) but too many here claim righteousness and customer devotion as their business model. That's crap, and anyone that's been around this business long enough knows it. Anyone that's owned ANY business knows it crap, business owners are in business to make money. Period. Is customer satisfaction important? Of course. Is maximizing your profits the reason for owning a business? I don't think think that question requires an answer.
Here's the problem for pro shop owners you are being squeezed by both sides of your business model, your suppliers and your demanders regard you as a necessary evil. The distributors love the volume pushed by the internet shops so you've lost pricing advantages. A growing volume of your consumers question your pricing policy and buy from internet shops. What does that leave you? Drilling services. Get used to it. Smaller sq. ft. shops with few supplies except those needed for drilling are the future. The rest of you guys just don't realize it yet.quote:
I am very happy to have customer bring in balls and I drill it for $50, I will not call them idiots, I love my customers, hence I am not crying or b!tching...
But I will be happier if they buy the balls from us...
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Laufaye
Sir, I am not calling my customer idiots, I am referring to those trying to teach me as a pro shop operator how to do the business...such as predicting the future of pro shop is just to drill balls...
I am done with this topic, if I offended you in anyways...sorry...
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Laufaye
Post by: DP3 on June 08, 2009, 02:30:26 AM
quote:
Anyone that's owned ANY business knows it crap, business owners are in business to make money. Period. Is customer satisfaction important? Of course. Is maximizing your profits the reason for owning a business? I don't think think that question requires an answer.
Here's the problem for pro shop owners you are being squeezed by both sides of your business model, your suppliers and your demanders regard you as a necessary evil. The distributors love the volume pushed by the internet shops so you've lost pricing advantages. A growing volume of your consumers question your pricing policy and buy from internet shops. What does that leave you? Drilling services. Get used to it. Smaller sq. ft. shops with few supplies except those needed for drilling are the future. The rest of you guys just don't realize it yet.
I agree with some of this. What the majority fail to realize is that in the next 2-5 years, your favorite ball driller might not be around. It's happening everywhere. And to the guys claiming "just take the $50 for the blank drill and shut up", well most shops are doing that, but you fail to realize that most shops aren't drilling 10 balls a day. 1-3 for most small places if you're lucky. Count in the rest of your stock, which if you individualize accessories, grips, polishes, bags, shoes, your actual bowling ball on hand count is around 10% of your entire store inventory. A pro shop business will not and cannot survive on ball sales and blank drills alone unless they are one of the super shops doing unbelievable volume.
What is sadly going to happen in the future is the good guys are going to wisen up and leave the sinking ship because they're going broke and losing patience trying to stay in a business they gave 20 years to. This will leave the majority of your only drillers to be your basement guys with crappy equipment or the mechanic in the closet at your local center with sub-standard knowledge in charge of giving you a reaction. This will keep the bigger guys in business, but if you're not in a huge association and metropolitan area, all of those big guys will be too far and few in between. In turn, people will buy less equipment because they don't want to have to drive 2 hrs to the only guy with a clue and those slowdown in overall sales will leave the super shops with piles and piles of "out-dated 12 month old balls" that they can't move leaving them sitting on dead money.
Saving money is not a crime, especially in these hard times. I don't blame anyone for doing what you have to do. But the constant devaluing of good pro shop service and the lack of respect and appreciation of the guys good at their craft is going to start the trickle effect that is going to kill the industry. I shouldn't really say "going to start" because everywhere it's already happening and it's really a shame.
Posts like the ones from the original poster and some of the fabricated tales I've heard in my time in the industry really puts the good guys in a no win situation. If you try to help, you're a crook for not giving someone what they want. Then if you give someone exactly what they want, and it rolls like complete crap, then it's the "pro shop guy" that can't drill and made the ball roll like garbage. Yet on the other hand if the ball rolls great and the bowler shoots lights out with it, it's never the "pro shop guy" that made them look good by giving them a great layout and matchup for what they bowl on, it's the bowler's "pure skill" and the company that made "the greatest ball ever" that get all of the credit.
Poor pro shop guy is chop liver in every single scenario.
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-DJ Marshall
Are you hiring? ....Have skills, will travel
Post by: Smash49 on June 08, 2009, 02:10:58 PM
Smash49
--------------------
Smash49
Slick, tacky, wood or synthetic it does not matter your slide is correct with SLSM Designs Bowlers Slide Sock. The Finest Slide Sock on the Planet!!!
www.bowlersslidesock.com
Striking Cat Bowling Pro Shop, Duncan Oklahoma! IBPSIA Certified Technician
www.strikingcatbowling.com
Post by: golfnutFL on June 08, 2009, 02:59:27 PM
My pro shop charges me $45 to drill a ball. Let's say I buy a Rogue Cell from Buddies. $129.99 - $5 coupon = $125. I supply my own grip slugs ($10). So my total from my shop is $180.
Let's say I buy the ball from Buddies and let Buddies drill it. Buddies charges $50--WITH grips and slug. So, I could get the ball shipped to my house ready to go for $175. I like my pro shop guy so $5 is no big deal. However if he increased his price by $55, guess who would be drilling my equipment? That's right...Buddies.
Not only is Buddies an internet seller but they are also a successful brick and mortar shop located in Fairfield, Connecticut. They should be the business model for the future success of pro shops. Go ahead and charge $100 to drill or refuse to drill. Your closing will just be sooner rather than later.
Pro shops need to adapt to the internet era or they will be replaced by a more efficient model.
quote:
This topic keeps going and going every month. If all pro shops charged you $100 to drill a bowling ball from the outside or say No I will not drill outside equipment this matter would be solved. People would scream about it but this would put a stop to the internet ball situation. The answer would be ok if you do not like the price do it yourself. I would not tell customers that but it is what this matter is coming to. Distributors are giving the internet dealers the advantage and the only way to stop it is to take it away. This forum has argued for years over how pro shops make money to the point of nonsense. Erin has it right. Restaurants will not let you bring in outside stuff to them. Bowling centers do not allow outside food. I know in the past I have been for drilling outside equipment at the same price as my normal inventory. Online dealers are now selling everything to the consumer that a pro shop can make money on. If someone comes in with grips and slugs, a ball and everything else there is no way you can drill the ball for the same price as if someone bought everything from you. Where we are in the country people think you are robbing them blind if you charge more than $35 to drill a ball. Many consumers cannot tell you if their bowling ball is drilled correctly or not. There are a ton of really bad ball drillers that have no clue what they are doing. I'm sure many of the internet customers will seek out these people to get their equipment done because the cost is lower. I'll buy stock in Nu-Skin.
Smash49
--------------------
Smash49
Slick, tacky, wood or synthetic it does not matter your slide is correct with SLSM Designs Bowlers Slide Sock. The Finest Slide Sock on the Planet!!!
www.bowlersslidesock.com
Striking Cat Bowling Pro Shop, Duncan Oklahoma! IBPSIA Certified Technician
www.strikingcatbowling.com
Post by: Smash49 on June 08, 2009, 03:35:52 PM
Same subject every month.
Smash49
--------------------
Smash49
Slick, tacky, wood or synthetic it does not matter your slide is correct with SLSM Designs Bowlers Slide Sock. The Finest Slide Sock on the Planet!!!
www.bowlersslidesock.com
Striking Cat Bowling Pro Shop, Duncan Oklahoma! IBPSIA Certified Technician
www.strikingcatbowling.com
Post by: ToiletLogCore on June 08, 2009, 03:38:15 PM
quote:
Yes, the problem would be solved, just not the way you envision it. The online shops would steal all of your drilling as well as your ball sales. You don't think that the online shops would be happy to drill up the ball?
My pro shop charges me $45 to drill a ball. Let's say I buy a Rogue Cell from Buddies. $129.99 - $5 coupon = $125. I supply my own grip slugs ($10). So my total from my shop is $180.
Let's say I buy the ball from Buddies and let Buddies drill it. Buddies charges $50--WITH grips and slug. So, I could get the ball shipped to my house ready to go for $175. I like my pro shop guy so $5 is no big deal. However if he increased his price by $55, guess who would be drilling my equipment? That's right...Buddies.
Not only is Buddies an internet seller but they are also a successful brick and mortar shop located in Fairfield, Connecticut. They should be the business model for the future success of pro shops. Go ahead and charge $100 to drill or refuse to drill. Your closing will just be sooner rather than later.
Pro shops need to adapt to the internet era or they will be replaced by a more efficient model.
yeah, inherit a bunch of money, buy a shitload of shit, sell balls online for $6.25 profit per ball and not care about how much net you make because you're filthy fucking paid in the first place. yeah that's the model for just about every successful mega shop in the country because there's absolutely no profit margin in this game
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You've just been handed a little TLC
Post by: sevenpin63 on June 08, 2009, 04:02:41 PM
--------------------
DON'T TEMPT THE BOWLING GODS
Edited on 6/8/2009 4:04 PM
Post by: Atochabsh on June 08, 2009, 04:23:35 PM
Erin
Post by: sevenpin63 on June 08, 2009, 04:31:06 PM
quote:
I've seen examples of internet seller's ball drilling. Its not pretty. I don't see how an online shop is going to drill your ball and hand fit the thumb and line up the grips properly without your hand. You could send them a ball and hope they can match it. But that's not all that easy either. You still have to hand fit the thumb at least.
Erin
I agree I would never have an online dealer drill my ball, I would be afraid they would not get it right. Thats a gamble I would not take.
--------------------
DON'T TEMPT THE BOWLING GODS
Post by: Mark T. Trgovac on June 08, 2009, 05:49:26 PM
The way I look at it, if you bring me a ball you got online. I will drill it for you and take care of you. However unless you are going to save enough money to where you are still ahead in the case that the ball has something happen to it. Where it needs returned and you have to pay for the return shipping, and then still have saved enough to be able to walk away with a few bucks after you get the replacement drilled. Then by all means go for it get it from the net. However if this problem did happen I doubt you would have saved anything by getting it from the net. Because then you have two drilling fees on your hands.
In my area for something High Performance like a VG, or Twisted Fury, or a Rising SE, or Power Swing. Is a ball you walk in and will see it listed on the wall at $189.95. All you would pay ontop of that is tax. So you walk out paying $202. This includes grips, and slug. Yet if you drive just 45 mins north of where I am located that same ball you will be paying $225 or more before tax, grip and slug.
The prices you have should mirror your work. However it is also at the mercy of your local economic statues.
--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Youngstown, Ohio
Track Live Chat Tech Support
Track HITMAN.
Tag Team Coaching Success Story.
http://www.c-gproshop.com/
Post by: DCNetBoy on June 08, 2009, 05:51:27 PM
Maybe some of you guys missed this...
"To the pro shop owners, do what you do to keep your business going. But keep in mind that saving money is not a crime. The next time someone brings a ball to you to be drilled, accept their money just as if they bought that ball from your shop. The last time I checked, the color of money is still GREEN! Whether you want to save it or earn it is up to you. Your customer support should be the same for all of your customers. Treat them with respect and professionalism and they will gladly go out their way to spend at your shop."
To the folks that think I made this story up, then ask yourself this... "Why would an owner of a pro shop take the time to address this situation when no business names, no individuals, nor any locations were ever mentioned? None.
The owner of the shop, SPCD, did not have to address this situation at all. He did not choose to do so while he was standing there in his shop and he certainly did not have to come to this forum to address this issue. To the folks that think that I should have said something to him in private, then I could say the same about him. I did know that heard much of the conversation. I saw that he was doing business with a distributor. What he was doing did not bother me at all. If anyone there thought that there was major cause for concern, then maybe the drill sheet from the last purchase that might have been on file could have been used for someone to try to contact me. It goes both ways.
Maybe it was not a big deal to him until he read this post. LOL! Who knows? But like he so graciously articulated in his response, this is in fact a delicate issue. For those of us who deal with customer support on a regular basis, it is definitely a delicate issue. When it comes to customer support, for some of us, there is a fine line between perception and reality. In hindsight, the whole situation could have been different if you look at things from another perspective. For me, on that day, I looked at the whole situation from a customer's perspective. When I go back to that shop, maybe my perspective will be different.
It has been interesting to read some of the comments. From a customer standpoint, many of us believe that if we bring a ball to a pro shop, the place of purchase, or the price paid for a particular ball should not be a concern. For the most part, we just want to get the equipment drilled. When it comes to purchasing a ball over the internet, most buyers expect the same quality of product that is supposed to be technically no different than what a pro shop purchases for their shop. As we all know, and have seen through this incident, that is not always the case.
I personally agree with SPCD about where the mistake was made. I understood every word that came out of the driller's mouth. However, because of my standpoint as a customer and believing in what I purchased, I perceived something different. We all know that sometimes it's not what you say, but how you say it or present it.
The next time I go to his shop, I don't expect anything less than the customer support that garnered his shop an award.
By the way, my Virtual Gravity rolls great! Enough said. Go bowl!
Peace!
Hey SleepOnIce - Here is another fact that I left out...
Number 18. - The distributor had on a blue STORM jersey!
ROTFLOL!
Post by: 300 dan on June 08, 2009, 07:16:12 PM
Post by: nextbowler on June 08, 2009, 07:36:48 PM
regular pro shops, the shift bowling at nationals before me, there were
42 balls that were illegal for some reason or another. The balls were
mostly fixable. But were these balls drilled by incompetents or someone
who intentionally wanted to cheat? Some of these people need to be gone.
I realize that this is somewhat off track.
Post by: BowlingWolf on June 09, 2009, 01:13:15 AM
quote:
my driller will charge me within ten bucks of what I can get a ball online for. why go internet for that chump change when I can help a friend and the local economy?
--------------------
We got a kinder, gentler machine-gun hand
+1
--------------------
We will be known forever by the tracks we leave.
Post by: SKIDSNAP on June 09, 2009, 05:50:39 AM
Maybe some of you guys missed this...
"To the pro shop owners, do what you do to keep your business going. But keep in mind that saving money is not a crime. The next time someone brings a ball to you to be drilled, accept their money just as if they bought that ball from your shop. The last time I checked, the color of money is still GREEN! Whether you want to save it or earn it is up to you. Your customer support should be the same for all of your customers. Treat them with respect and professionalism and they will gladly go out their way to spend at your shop."
To the folks that think I made this story up, then ask yourself this... "Why would an owner of a pro shop take the time to address this situation when no business names, no individuals, nor any locations were ever mentioned? None.
The owner of the shop, SPCD, did not have to address this situation at all. He did not choose to do so while he was standing there in his shop and he certainly did not have to come to this forum to address this issue. To the folks that think that I should have said something to him in private, then I could say the same about him. I did know that heard much of the conversation. I saw that he was doing business with a distributor. What he was doing did not bother me at all. If anyone there thought that there was major cause for concern, then maybe the drill sheet from the last purchase that might have been on file could have been used for someone to try to contact me. It goes both ways.
Maybe it was not a big deal to him until he read this post. LOL! Who knows? But like he so graciously articulated in his response, this is in fact a delicate issue. For those of us who deal with customer support on a regular basis, it is definitely a delicate issue. When it comes to customer support, for some of us, there is a fine line between perception and reality. In hindsight, the whole situation could have been different if you look at things from another perspective. For me, on that day, I looked at the whole situation from a customer's perspective. When I go back to that shop, maybe my perspective will be different.
It has been interesting to read some of the comments. From a customer standpoint, many of us believe that if we bring a ball to a pro shop, the place of purchase, or the price paid for a particular ball should not be a concern. For the most part, we just want to get the equipment drilled. When it comes to purchasing a ball over the internet, most buyers expect the same quality of product that is supposed to be technically no different than what a pro shop purchases for their shop. As we all know, and have seen through this incident, that is not always the case.
I personally agree with SPCD about where the mistake was made. I understood every word that came out of the driller's mouth. However, because of my standpoint as a customer and believing in what I purchased, I perceived something different. We all know that sometimes it's not what you say, but how you say it or present it.
The next time I go to his shop, I don't expect anything less than the customer support that garnered his shop an award.
By the way, my Virtual Gravity rolls great! Enough said. Go bowl!
Peace!
Hey SleepOnIce - Here is another fact that I left out...
Number 18. - The distributor had on a blue STORM jersey!
ROTFLOL!
Why would you go back to the shop that you have spent so much of your time telling us how they lied to you and treated you so poorly????
Post by: rackattack on June 09, 2009, 09:15:20 AM
Quote
Why would you go back to the shop that you have spent so much of your time telling us how they lied to you and treated you so poorly????
I would guess it was the owner's personal response to this post.
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It's all about the X
Post by: renaissanceman517kak on June 09, 2009, 09:46:47 AM
Post by: dogman666 on June 09, 2009, 09:50:17 AM
Post by: SKIDSNAP on June 09, 2009, 10:13:14 AM
Arrogant or ignorant either or....
Post by: nextbowler on June 09, 2009, 04:36:57 PM
Post by: SleepOnIce on June 09, 2009, 04:53:49 PM
quote:
my driller will charge me within ten bucks of what I can get a ball online for. why go internet for that chump change when I can help a friend and the local economy?
--------------------
We got a kinder, gentler machine-gun hand
Same here. If I buy a ball through the pro shop it will be maybe $15 more than buying the ball online, then having him drill it with inserts. Not worth it imo. However, if the pro shop is charging 40+ more, I can't argue with the person getting the ball online.
--------------------
BLARGH
Rob Stone Supporters of America!
Post by: sdbowler on June 09, 2009, 04:57:28 PM
Having reviewed everything here I still think there was a break down in communication somewhere. I know when I was working in a center I would always joke around with people about what they paid for a ball online. I would try to use it for being able to go back to my boss and say ball x is being sold online for $z and we are at $y and is this much above cost right now. Can I lower the price a little to try to compete? By saying I hope you didn't pay much for it maybe just maybe he was fishing for details you never know.
You stated you were planning on buying more balls from the shop and said what you wanted to do. My question is have/had you talked to the shop about it so they could also help you out with it? I know I talk to my pro shop guy about 4 times of what I am thinking about or what I want to get his thoughts and to think about it for a bit. Also it gives him ideas of what to think about as well for me.
Maybe it's me but something just still does not seem right about the whole thing. I can't put my finger on it but it does not seem right.
--------------------
Kyle
Post by: REvans284 on June 09, 2009, 05:23:05 PM
Several companies have raised their prices, and one thing I have noticed on that, is the pro shop prices didn't increase. I payed $189 drilled with my mold through my pro shop for a Twisted Fury Destruction, online I couldn't get it cheaper than $146 shipped, so I bought the ball from my pro shop (and I'm very happy with it).
I can understand why drillers get angry when you buy internet stuff. I don't normally buy new balls off the internet anyway. I've bought a few used balls with low games off of here from some reputable people and with the little bit of extra I had to pay to get them redrilled, I had at most $70-80 invested when that could have easily been double or triple that...
I'm guilty of being an internet junky... But I also support my pro shop. The people who only buy off the internet and want stuff drilled are the ones who seem to annoy the pro shop guys..
Later,
REvans284
Post by: charlest on June 09, 2009, 06:56:28 PM
quote:quote:
Anyone that's owned ANY business knows it crap, business owners are in business to make money. Period. Is customer satisfaction important? Of course. Is maximizing your profits the reason for owning a business? I don't think think that question requires an answer.
Here's the problem for pro shop owners you are being squeezed by both sides of your business model, your suppliers and your demanders regard you as a necessary evil. The distributors love the volume pushed by the internet shops so you've lost pricing advantages. A growing volume of your consumers question your pricing policy and buy from internet shops. What does that leave you? Drilling services. Get used to it. Smaller sq. ft. shops with few supplies except those needed for drilling are the future. The rest of you guys just don't realize it yet.
I agree with some of this. What the majority fail to realize is that in the next 2-5 years, your favorite ball driller might not be around. It's happening everywhere. And to the guys claiming "just take the $50 for the blank drill and shut up", well most shops are doing that, but you fail to realize that most shops aren't drilling 10 balls a day. 1-3 for most small places if you're lucky. Count in the rest of your stock, which if you individualize accessories, grips, polishes, bags, shoes, your actual bowling ball on hand count is around 10% of your entire store inventory. A pro shop business will not and cannot survive on ball sales and blank drills alone unless they are one of the super shops doing unbelievable volume.
What is sadly going to happen in the future is the good guys are going to wisen up and leave the sinking ship because they're going broke and losing patience trying to stay in a business they gave 20 years to. This will leave the majority of your only drillers to be your basement guys with crappy equipment or the mechanic in the closet at your local center with sub-standard knowledge in charge of giving you a reaction. This will keep the bigger guys in business, but if you're not in a huge association and metropolitan area, all of those big guys will be too far and few in between. In turn, people will buy less equipment because they don't want to have to drive 2 hrs to the only guy with a clue and those slowdown in overall sales will leave the super shops with piles and piles of "out-dated 12 month old balls" that they can't move leaving them sitting on dead money.
Saving money is not a crime, especially in these hard times. I don't blame anyone for doing what you have to do. But the constant devaluing of good pro shop service and the lack of respect and appreciation of the guys good at their craft is going to start the trickle effect that is going to kill the industry. I shouldn't really say "going to start" because everywhere it's already happening and it's really a shame.
Posts like the ones from the original poster and some of the fabricated tales I've heard in my time in the industry really puts the good guys in a no win situation. If you try to help, you're a crook for not giving someone what they want. Then if you give someone exactly what they want, and it rolls like complete crap, then it's the "pro shop guy" that can't drill and made the ball roll like garbage. Yet on the other hand if the ball rolls great and the bowler shoots lights out with it, it's never the "pro shop guy" that made them look good by giving them a great layout and matchup for what they bowl on, it's the bowler's "pure skill" and the company that made "the greatest ball ever" that get all of the credit.
Poor pro shop guy is chop liver in every single scenario.
--------------------
-DJ Marshall
Are you hiring? ....Have skills, will travel
DJ,
You had, have and seem to continue to have far too much common sense for your own good.
In central NJ, my driller almost admonishes me if I ask him the price of a new ball. He'd rather I, personally, bring in my internet blanks, and my inserts, He has my measurements. One, two three and 2 new balls are virtually ready for me to use and I'm out the door, except for our BS-ing. I travel 70 minutes in non-rush hour traffic to get to his place.
If you need to be measured from scratch, he'll spend an hour or more making sure every pitch and bevel is as you desire it, for the same $40 drilling fee. Come back 3 weeks later fo ran adjustment and he's happy to make sure you bowl well with his drilling. If you need a new ball, he can order anything you like. It'll be there by Thursday, his regular delivery day. Sooner, if needs be. People have come from as far as Germany to have him drill their balls - no joke, no exaggeration.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: SKIDSNAP on June 09, 2009, 08:15:45 PM
DCNetBoy is fibbing..
He makes a long list of his version facts. ALthough facts like "I took the ball out of my bag" are irrevelant. But the length of the list is so that he can cover himself when the two or three outright falsehoods are exposed.
Very Sad...Pride is a terrible thing.