Author Topic: Upset over quoted ball drilling prices. Your thoughts? (Read 8635 times)

squirrelywrath1 · « **on:** March 22, 2018, 09:07:24 PM »

What recently happened to me is pushing me more toward quitting the game altogether. I've already had major spats regarding the rule changes governing no-thumb bowlers, now I have problems finding someone to drill at a reasonable price.

Keep in mind that I only need two finger holes, no beveling, and no grips. CG in the middle of the bridge for simplicity. But, still quoted as high as $100 because the ball wasn't bought from him. Another guy is $60, and this other schmuck refused me service altogether.

Probably only 10 minutes worth of work, what the hell is with these guys? I was willing to pay $30, but no takers.

By the way, the ball in question is an old Faball Hammer. Can't buy one through a pro shop/distributor anyway.

Since I refuse to be ripped off by these guys, I'm willing to try drilling it myself using hand held tools. Anyone ever try this and had success? Tips? Thank you in advance.

Snakster · « **Reply #46 on:** March 27, 2018, 07:38:30 AM »

Quote from: tommygn on March 23, 2018, 09:07:32 AM

I'm right there with ya.

I paid the grocery store for a steak, and can't understand why Long Horn won't cook it for me for cheaper than their menu prices, since I'm supplying the steak.

These businesses are crazy, no doubt!

That's a horrible analogy.

A better one would be: if I buy my car at one dealership, but then I take it for servicing at another dealership because it may be closer, they should charge me double to work on my car because I didn't buy the car from them?

If I bring a single drilled ball to that same pro shop, the should charge me double because I didn't buy the ball from them initially?

I get it, they are retailers and would prefer to reap the margin of selling the ball. But they are also a service center. To have two different prices to do the same service for two different customers is simply wrong. I mean what are they? The airline industry?

Steven · « **Reply #47 on:** March 27, 2018, 04:22:05 PM »

Quote from: Snakster on March 27, 2018, 07:38:30 AM

Quote from: tommygn on March 23, 2018, 09:07:32 AM
I'm right there with ya.

I paid the grocery store for a steak, and can't understand why Long Horn won't cook it for me for cheaper than their menu prices, since I'm supplying the steak.

These businesses are crazy, no doubt!

That's a horrible analogy.

A better one would be: if I buy my car at one dealership, but then I take it for servicing at another dealership because it may be closer, they should charge me double to work on my car because I didn't buy the car from them?

If I bring a single drilled ball to that same pro shop, the should charge me double because I didn't buy the ball from them initially?

I get it, they are retailers and would prefer to reap the margin of selling the ball. But they are also a service center. To have two different prices to do the same service for two different customers is simply wrong. I mean what are they? The airline industry?

Actually, the steak example is an excellent analogy. Cooking outside steaks doesnâ€™t work for a sustainable Restaurant business model, and drilling outside balls on the cheap equally doesnâ€™t work for most Proshops.

The world seems to be filled with bowlers wanting everything For very little and consequently happy with driving local brick-and-mortar shops out of business.

No thanks......

Snakster · « **Reply #48 on:** March 27, 2018, 07:55:55 PM »

Quote from: Steven on March 27, 2018, 04:22:05 PM

Quote from: Snakster on March 27, 2018, 07:38:30 AM
Quote from: tommygn on March 23, 2018, 09:07:32 AM
I'm right there with ya.

I paid the grocery store for a steak, and can't understand why Long Horn won't cook it for me for cheaper than their menu prices, since I'm supplying the steak.

These businesses are crazy, no doubt!

That's a horrible analogy.

A better one would be: if I buy my car at one dealership, but then I take it for servicing at another dealership because it may be closer, they should charge me double to work on my car because I didn't buy the car from them?

If I bring a single drilled ball to that same pro shop, the should charge me double because I didn't buy the ball from them initially?

I get it, they are retailers and would prefer to reap the margin of selling the ball. But they are also a service center. To have two different prices to do the same service for two different customers is simply wrong. I mean what are they? The airline industry?

Actually, the steak example is an excellent analogy. Cooking outside steaks doesnâ€™t work for a sustainable Restaurant business model, and drilling outside balls on the cheap equally doesnâ€™t work for most Proshops.

The world seems to be filled with bowlers wanting everything For very little and consequently happy with driving local brick-and-mortar shops out of business.

No thanks......

No itâ€™s apples and oranges. A restaurant isnâ€™t a retail shop AND service center.

If I buy a tennis racket model for cheap, but have preferred strings that I use, the sporting goods store down the street should refuse to restring that racket because I dint get it from them? Or they should charge me more than their posted prices because I brought in an â€˜outsideâ€™ racket? If I buy a nice road bike from someone on Craigslist and I take it to my local bike shop to get it tuned, they should refuse providing me the service because I did not buy the bike from them? Or they should charge me more than the advertised price?

These are apples to apples examples, not the ridiculous restaurant example. Restaurants are retail ONLY. Pro shops, bike shops, local sporting goods, etc are retail shops AND service shops.

Steven · « **Reply #49 on:** March 27, 2018, 09:20:02 PM »

Quote from: Snakster on March 27, 2018, 07:55:55 PM

No itâ€™s apples and oranges. A restaurant isnâ€™t a retail shop AND service center.

If I buy a tennis racket model for cheap, but have preferred strings that I use, the sporting goods store down the street should refuse to restring that racket because I dint get it from them? Or they should charge me more than their posted prices because I brought in an â€˜outsideâ€™ racket? If I buy a nice road bike from someone on Craigslist and I take it to my local bike shop to get it tuned, they should refuse providing me the service because I did not buy the bike from them? Or they should charge me more than the advertised price?

These are apples to apples examples, not the ridiculous restaurant example. Restaurants are retail ONLY. Pro shops, bike shops, local sporting goods, etc are retail shops AND service shops.

Pro shops are only sustainable if they adhere to business models that ensure profitability. If a shop owner devalues his services by mostly punching holes in outside balls at bare bottom pricess, he won't be in business very long. Once a shop gets this reputation, in many cases it's the beginning of the end. I've seen it more than once.

It's not a mystery that businesses in general give better total pricing when you a buy basket of services, or purchase in volume. For bowling, when you pick just a small piece (i.e punch holes), you're generally going to pay more. As an owner, that's just the way things work if you want to stay in business.

HackJandy · « **Reply #50 on:** March 27, 2018, 10:03:40 PM »

Pro shops I deal with in my area only give like a $10 dollar discount on ball + drilling if buy the ball from them instead. They are not only open about drilling internet balls they often recommend it as most don't keep much but the latest releases anyway in inventory and other than them being able to get a ball in a day or two from their suppliers the prices are usually not better what I can get even with the discount. Plus got a rep about bringing in balls most drillers haven't seen or haven't seen in a long time. Good luck getting a pro shop to order you a NIB purple sumo.

Steven · « **Reply #51 on:** March 28, 2018, 10:42:06 AM »

Quote from: HackJandy on March 27, 2018, 10:03:40 PM

Pro shops I deal with in my area only give like a $10 dollar discount on ball + drilling if buy the ball from them instead. They are not only open about drilling internet balls they often recommend it as most don't keep much but the latest releases anyway in inventory and other than them being able to get a ball in a day or two from their suppliers the prices are usually not better what I can get even with the discount. Plus got a rep about bringing in balls most drillers haven't seen or haven't seen in a long time. Good luck getting a pro shop to order you a NIB purple sumo.

Glad things are working out for you. I know there are shops that welcome outside balls for drilling on the cheap, but in many cases they're cutting their throats for short term gain. My shop guy won't and most of the quality shops in my area won't either. In my professional life (non-bowling), I never devalued my brand by doing piecemeal services for less than premium prices. It just invited attempts to undermine pricing for my complete packaged services. It wasn't worth it.

As for older balls, the few times I found older gems on my own it was no big deal having my guy drill them up. He didn't want the hassle of hunting them down in the first place. I already buy 6-10 NIB balls per year from him, so a one off outside "gem" is no big deal. It's all part of the long term relationship we've established.

BTW, I've been hit with several warranty issues the past year that were handled with no problems because I bought the balls directly from my local guy. I had three Storm balls that exposed manufacturing defects that couldn't be fixed, and had to be replaced. Good luck getting that taken care of with your outside balls.

HackJandy · « **Reply #52 on:** March 28, 2018, 11:48:25 AM »

Oh its not cheap really. $40 is about the cheapest I pay and that is only because I have brought the guy a ton of balls. I would go through the pro shops more often but like I said most of them have very limited inventory in my area. I couldn't even find a Hy-Road in stock. Pro shop guy actually did order that one for me. Thing is when you are buying clearance balls well under $100 from Buddies then the risk is often worth it warranty wise. Have bought most of my arsenal online and had zero hassles quality wise (balls don't sit long for the big boys). But yeah if I was going to buy a top shelf new release would go through the pro shop but can't see myself doing that any time soon. Have too many balls as it is.

spmcgivern · « **Reply #53 on:** March 28, 2018, 12:10:29 PM »

Just to play devil's advocate, would anyone expect to pay the same price for the two following scenarios:

#1 Bring in drilled ball and need a complete plug and redrill.

#2 Have pain in my finger and want to plug my ring finger and drill it conventional (Sarge-Easter)

I don't think the OP is questioning the difference between bringing a ball in and buying in house. The question to me: is there any room for discount if most of the work a pro shop operator states is the source of his price is removed?

Ask any pro shop worth their salt why they might charge $75-$100 to drill a ball and you will get some combination of the following:

1. Watch the bowler throw some balls
2. Determine the bowler's PAP, speed, revs, tilt, etc.
3. Fit the bowler
4. Discussion with bowler to determine what type of ball they need or how to fill a void in their arsenal
5. Go through some options with the bowler
6. Bowler decides on ball
7. Discuss with bowler the drilling pattern (and perhaps a short class on what it all means)
8. Pro shop orders ball through the distributor (if not in stock)
9. Pro shop waits for delivery
10. Pro shop drills ball and notifies bowler the ball is ready
11. Bowler comes in to get final tweaks to ball (perhaps determination of balance hole)
12. Bowler leaves with final product

The above list is worth every penny of the cost and perhaps is a good deal depending on the quality of the shop. But why should the bowler expect to pay the same price when items 1-9 are eliminated? Items 1-9 are what take the longest and requires the most effort from the shop.

The other question I have is this.... Why mark up a product when 99.9% of the time you combine that product with a service? If shops didn't mark up the price of the ball, what would the drilling cost be? As a customer, I would expect the price of drilling to be the same regardless of where the ball came from. The service is the same.

I do not have a shop so I only speak out of ignorance to the runnings of a pro shop. I wonder how a shop would do if the advertised price of a ball before drilling was closer to the internet price? Would bowlers be more inclined to order from a shop instead of online?

HackJandy · « **Reply #54 on:** March 28, 2018, 12:25:11 PM »

Shops in my area don't really mark up the balls much at all but lthey charge pretty close to regular price on the drill as well.

squirrelywrath1 · « **Reply #55 on:** March 28, 2018, 12:46:07 PM »

Again, some very interesting replies here.

PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THOUGH: In my case, I was bringing in an old and LONG DISCONTINUED Faball Blue Pearl Hammer for just two fingerholes with the CG in the center of the bridge. No beveling of the holes either.

I am unaware of any pro shops that would even attempt to hunt down a ball that has been discontinued for nearly 30 years. I did all the work in finding one.

I also tried to make it clear why I wanted to use such an old ball and that minimal service and labor is needed to make me happy. I DID make the mistake of not explaining that I have some physical limitations that prevent me from effectively using most modern equipment. (Blue Hammer remake is the exception). That is why I tend to be most successful with extremely mild stuff which is getting hard to find.

So, is it really fair to charge so much for drilling an old ball that CAN'T be bought through a pro shop/distributor? I still don't think so. I did the work searching out what I want and laying it out. Just need a person to put the holes in it for a fair price.

imagonman · « **Reply #56 on:** March 28, 2018, 02:14:54 PM »

Quote from: squirrelywrath1 on March 28, 2018, 12:46:07 PM

Again, some very interesting replies here.

PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THOUGH: In my case, I was bringing in an old and LONG DISCONTINUED Faball Blue Pearl Hammer for just two fingerholes with the CG in the center of the bridge. No beveling of the holes either.

I am unaware of any pro shops that would even attempt to hunt down a ball that has been discontinued for nearly 30 years. I did all the work in finding one.

I also tried to make it clear why I wanted to use such an old ball and that minimal service and labor is needed to make me happy. I DID make the mistake of not explaining that I have some physical limitations that prevent me from effectively using most modern equipment. (Blue Hammer remake is the exception). That is why I tend to be most successful with extremely mild stuff which is getting hard to find.

So, is it really fair to charge so much for drilling an old ball that CAN'T be bought through a pro shop/distributor? I still don't think so. I did the work searching out what I want and laying it out. Just need a person to put the holes in it for a fair price.

All this seems to have been overlooked by most posters on this thread. AND this is the main point here of which I agree 110%. The PSO that flat out refuses to drill such a ball or upcharges to ludicrous $$$ doesn't deserve to be in business & would never have mine & I would tell everyone I know about said 'thief'.

Good Times Good Times · « **Reply #57 on:** March 28, 2018, 02:39:33 PM »

I'm fortunate enough to have a great pro shop and I always make sure to take care of them.

Snakster · « **Reply #58 on:** March 28, 2018, 03:12:30 PM »

Quote from: Steven on March 27, 2018, 09:20:02 PM

Pro shops are only sustainable if they adhere to business models that ensure profitability. If a shop owner devalues his services by mostly punching holes in outside balls at bare bottom pricess, he won't be in business very long. Once a shop gets this reputation, in many cases it's the beginning of the end. I've seen it more than once.

I didn't say anything about bare bottom prices or say that's what they should "mostly" be doing. As someone else posted, if a shop bumps their normal drilling fee by $10 over their normal drilling charge for a ball purchased outside, that's fair. But to say "I won't drill a ball not purchased here" or to say the cost for drilling two holes is $100 (which is essentially saying "I won't drill a ball not purchased here"), THAT'S the beginning of the end.

If the OP brings in a used ball and asks for a plug and drill, should he then also be charged an extra fee because the ball was not originally purchased in that shop? If he wants it resurfaced, should he be charged more if it wasn't bought in that shop?

If I buy a new, non-discontinued ball, I buy it at my proshop and have them drill it. If I see a great price on a discontinued ball, then I do that and have my proshop drill it. I don't see an issue with that, and neither do they. And they do quite well.

(To be clear, I'm also not a jerk about it. If they want to take a couple or three days to do it...or even a week, I'm perfectly okay with it. I'll take the slow road since they are doing that for me without complaint. Perhaps attitude is a driving force in the original scenario.)

Luke Rosdahl · « **Reply #59 on:** March 28, 2018, 04:54:17 PM »

Now while I agree with your original statements, I don't see any reason he should charge you less just because a ball is discontinued, that's faulty logic. It's the same amount of work whether it's currently available or not, now the amount of work doesn't in my mind warrant a full price charge, but I don't care whether it's available now or discontinued, two holes is two holes and to suggest that you should get charged less because the pro shop can't get it isn't reasonable. Now, he shouldn't be mad you didn't buy it from him obviously, but the work is the work regardless of any extraneous details. I still agree $60 bucks to drill two holes without grips is dumb and excessive though.

Author Topic: Upset over quoted ball drilling prices. Your thoughts? (Read 8635 times)

squirrelywrath1

Upset over quoted ball drilling prices. Your thoughts?

Snakster

Re: Upset over quoted ball drilling prices. Your thoughts?

Steven

Re: Upset over quoted ball drilling prices. Your thoughts?

Snakster

Re: Upset over quoted ball drilling prices. Your thoughts?

Steven

Re: Upset over quoted ball drilling prices. Your thoughts?

HackJandy

Re: Upset over quoted ball drilling prices. Your thoughts?

Steven

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HackJandy

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spmcgivern

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HackJandy

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squirrelywrath1

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imagonman

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Good Times Good Times

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Snakster

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Luke Rosdahl

Re: Upset over quoted ball drilling prices. Your thoughts?