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Author Topic: stacked teams  (Read 2193 times)

jac

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stacked teams
« on: December 19, 2003, 12:01:22 AM »
I am a frequent reader of this forum board but not
a frequent poster.  I normally sit back and just read what
others have to say and keep my comments to my self but.....

Lately I have been reading alot of posts about stacked teams and
how they are going to be the demise of team bowling.
I know my opinion on this is going to get me crucified on this board
but someone has to stand up for the scratch bowler.  I guess I will be
the one to try.

Yes, I am a 230 avg bowler.  I have worked long and hard to get to that
level.  I have spent countless hours learning the game and how to play it.
I was not always a scratch bowler.  In my early 20's I was your avg. once a
week bowler that came in and did his best to shoot a 200 game.  I bowled in a
handicap league but never, ever, did I expect that if I shoot avg. did I have
a right to claim victory over the "elite" bowlers in our league.  After a couple
of years of bowling against these guys I got tired of getting my butt whooped on each week and decided to do something about it.  I didn't go whining and crying about how we need higher handicap or league avg. caps to compete or ask that teams break up to keep it competitive.  I got together with my team and we all started practicing and reading how the game was played and slow but sure we improved and now we are all scratch bowlers.  It took us many years to become the bowlers that we are today.  

Two years ago the league took a vote and decided that our team was stacked because we were all scratch bowlers.  There fore they told us to break up or they were going to increase the handicap to "make it competitive because no one can compete with you".  I was the team captain and told them the team was not stacked we were all once just your avg. bowler.  We told them to go back and look at the records.  None of us were scratch bowlers when we joined that league 15 years ago.  We were scratch bowlers because we got tired of getting beat and did something about it instead of complain.  We told them we would leave before we broke up. They said they were going to increase the handicap to 100% of the difference between the
two teams bowling.  We said forget it and dropped out of the league.
We worked hard for the right to be the best team in that league and once we
got there the league shut us out.

What I say to the handicap bowler is this.....  If you are tired of getting
beat by the scratch bowler then do something about it rather then complain.
Spend the kind of time and money that most scratch bowlers have on their game
and you can be the next scratch bowler that all the handicap bowlers complain about.....  The question is........How bad do you want it??

I am tired of hearing the handicap bowler complain about how hard it is to
compete with a scratch bowler.  NEWS flash.........  It is supposed to be hard
for a handicap bowler to beat a scratch bowler!!!!

Ok there it is come and get me!!!!
I know this post is not going to make me any friends but oh well.  This is truly how I feel.

 
Jac
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BadShot

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Re: stacked teams
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2003, 03:14:56 PM »
jac, i'm with you, too . . .

i don't bowl as well as you, but i'm a better than scratch golfer, and i won't take strokes from ANYBODY!  if i can't beat 'em heads up, then i need to get better.

i would think that any league could be balanced with a handicap of 80% of 230, maybe higher if there are higher league averages.

see jac, that wasn't so bad, was it???  now let's see what happens!!  
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janderson

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Re: stacked teams
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2003, 03:17:58 PM »
jac - While I agree with the essence of your post and congratulate you on your success I have to ask: why are you guys still bowling in handicap leagues?  You say you are scratch bowlers why put up with the handicap league complaints?  Don't read any judgment into my question.  I'm not judging, just asking.


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jkiser01

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Re: stacked teams
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2003, 03:19:58 PM »
I agree with you.. If you want to get better, work at it and stop complaining. This next comment is kind of on the same lines..

If I had a dollar everytime I saw a low average bowler carry a brooklyn or trip out the bucket, I would have enough money to buy everyone on the site a new Hammer Big Blue!! This is of course right after or right before I smashed the pocket and left another frickin 10 pin..

Its very furstarting when you are pounding the pocket and getting tapped and really know what you are doing and some joker that doesn't have a clue about the game of bowling is carrying everything in sight..

I guess thats why most of us have day jobs and don't bowl on the PBA tour!!

jkiser01
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Ishmael

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Re: stacked teams
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2003, 03:37:21 PM »
While I agree with your post in priciple, what you are suggesting goes against the nature of the handicap system.  The whole objective is to promote a fair competition between competitors of unequal skill.  If you don't agree with that, then you shouldn't bowl in handicap leagues.  If you exclude sandbagging (which is a whole other can of worms) 100% handicap is only fair.

Just to clarify, I bowl in 2 leagues and on the lowest handicap team in both leagues.  Both leagues use 80% handicap, and my team has never finished outside the top 5 in either league.  We never will as long as the handicap is only 80%, but don't think that I'm going to suggest that we change it.  Too bad the higher handicap bowlers aren't smart enough to realize that they have no chance to win.
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9andaWiggle

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Re: stacked teams
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2003, 03:45:42 PM »
jac - you should post more often.  I was going to post more, but I started rambling... So I'll leave it at this.  1) it was not right for the league to force you out that way, and hopefully you will find a good league to join soon.  2) I complained earlier about being on 2 bottom feeder teams this year, but I don't get too discouraged when losing to a better team.  I just wish there were different, challenging lane conditions to make the ability to ADJUST play into the outcome of the league champions rather than how well a team can "manage" their avg vs. handicap ratio.

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Ishmael

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Re: stacked teams
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2003, 03:57:19 PM »
quote:
I think that 100% handicap is not fair if you worked hard to get where you are and you go out and shoot 250 and loose a side pot to someone who just shot 180 but gets 100 sticks because they based cap on 95% of high ave. you just got screwed!


No, you got exactly what you deserved for entering a handicap side pot.
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mumzie

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Re: stacked teams
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2003, 03:59:50 PM »
It's like that in the league next to us, too. On Thursday nights, we have 3 mixed handicap leagues in the house.
One is called the "bergie bowlers". They truly are drinking teams with bowling problems.
Our league is the Belles and Beaux (yeah, archaic, but the league's been around 40+ years). We have some high average bowlers(210+), and some lower average bowlers(100-120).  My team average is probably 50 pins higher than any other team, scratch, but there are some teams we give almost 300 pins to a game (4 bowlers). Our team has been together 3 years. We usually end up with the most wins overall for the year, but have NEVER won a round.
The third league (Thursday Mixers) has gone from 14 teams down to 5, because their league secretary's favorite saying to strong teams is "your team doesn't belong here". Our league has grown with teams from the Mixers league - unfortunately, we haven't gotten them all.
I keep bowling on that league - and I think it's because our whole team both loses and wins gracefully. We don't gloat, or rub it in, like some of the higher average teams can. We just have fun, and try to bowl as good as possible. After all, that's what it's all about.

Added on edit:
The league has also watched my teammate and I go from 185 or so averages to the 2 highest averages in the league. So maybe they recognize the effort and the work that's gone into the improvement.

But in general, I agree - if you really want to win, and you aren't a scratch bowler, you have 2 choices - take me out of it by making handicap ridiculous, or improve.



Edited on 12/19/2003 5:02 PM
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